Piece on Cyclists on Prime Time RTE 1 9.35PM - Mod warning see OP/post 102

LpPepper

Hi all, there's a special on cyclists tonight on Prime Time RTE 1 at 9.35pm - think a special on Aer Lingus is on first though....for anyone interested!

Mod warning (quoted from post 102):

Beasty wrote: »

Final warning - no more helmet discussion in this thread. Use the helmet megathread (which is linked from the Charter/FAQ sticky)

Any questions, PM me - do not respond in thread

UDP

They will be discussing the plight of cyclists (whatever that means) on Prime Time on RTE One starting in a few minutes.

monument

Teaser intro says it is covering “growing war between cyclists and motorists”

Beasty

Threads merged

Diarmuid

IF you value your sanity, don't watch this

Beasty

Diarmuid wrote: »

IF you value your sanity

Gave up on that when I started track racing .....:P

LuckyLloyd

Pretty damning so far.

Beasty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Pretty damning so far.

Pretty damning on who

Oryx

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Pretty damning so far.

Not watching. Damning who?

Banjoxed

That Guard was sound. More like that please.

LuckyLloyd

Beasty wrote: »

Pretty damning on who

Oryx wrote: »

Not watching. Damning who?

Pretty damning against the concept of cycling in Dublin in the current context of the city. And pretty damning on the behaviour of a minority of cyclists.

Larbre34

Oryx wrote: »

Not watching. Damning who?

Cyclists on footpaths / breaking red lights / wrong way up one-way streets

Usual stuff they deny they do but do all the time

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Cyclists on footpaths / breaking red lights / wrong way up one-way streets

Usual stuff they deny they do but do all the time

Who is they?

tampopo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Pretty damning against the concept of cycling in Dublin in the current context of the city. And pretty damning on the behaviour of a minority of cyclists people in cars, trucks and buses.

Fixed your post for you!

So, in conclusion, Hi viz jackets are no protection. Someone tell the RSA and the Gardai

Beasty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And pretty damning on the behaviour of a minority of cyclists.

No-one (on here anyway) denies there are a significant minority of cyclists who don't seem to give a damn about the safety of themselves or others. On the issue of safety in Dublin - they keep harping back to the 12 deaths (across the country) last year , compared to 5 the year before, conveniently overlooking that the figure for this year to date is 2. I certainly don't want to downplay the dangers of getting in the blind spots of drivers, but generally cycling is a lot safer than a lot of people seem to think

ted1

I thought the lack of infrastructure was well presented, they should have mentioned that a lot if the times the cycle path is the foot path and that needs to change

07Lapierre

Now watching mean streets.. Good man Rocko! (Bicycle courier)

LuckyLloyd

tampopo wrote: »

Fixed your post for you!

So, in conclusion, Hi viz jackets are no protection. Someone tell the RSA and the Gardai

Cars / trucks / buses

So there was no commentary on cyclist behaviour in the program?

tampopo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Cars / trucks / buses

So there was no commentary on cyclist behaviour in the program?

Oh there was, there was. Including the piece on a "very careful, hi viz jacket wearing, rules of the road obeying" cyclist.

They interviewed his wife, as he was killed by a truck going over him, poor lad.

tomasrojo

Prime Time did a special like this a few years ago, very heavy on the helmet cam footage. That pretty much said Dublin is too dangerous for cycling. Not big on stats, just footage. I couldn't be bothered watching this one.

I did see monument's tweet about their claim that Dublin City Centre is the most dangerous place to cycle, which, as he points out, it definitely isn't. In terms of fatalities per journey or per km travelled, it's pretty much the safest. But, as I said, stats not their long suit.

funnights74

I thought it was fair enough, obviously the camera doesn't lie and there was wrong on both sides in the clips they featured. What was shown will come as no surprise to regular commuters, I'm quite used to being "cut up" on my trip to work.
I must agree with what the guard said awareness of your surroundings and anticipation can go a long way to saving injuries and lives. Part of the problem was the influx of cyclists, partly due to the ctw scheme and the infrastructure simply wasn't in place. So no quick fix in place.

Larbre34

ronoc wrote: »

Who is they?

They, is many cyclists.

tomasrojo

funnights74 wrote: »

obviously the camera doesn't lie

chicorytip

It's astonishing to see the numbers of cyclists - the majority of those shown on the Prime Time report, for example - who still refuse to wear helmets. It ought to be made compulsory to do so, as it is for motorists to wear seat belts.

omicron

chicorytip wrote: »

It's astonishing to see the numbers of cyclists - the majority of those shown on the Prime Time report, for example - who still refuse to wear helmets. It ought to be made compulsory to do so, as it is for motorists to wear seat belts.

Yeah it should be compulsory for cyclists to wear helmets like it is for motorists and pedestrians to wear helmets. :rolleyes:

Jawgap

Larbre34 wrote: »

They, is many cyclists.

How many?

Watching The Departed.

tomasrojo

Beasty wrote: »

On the issue of safety in Dublin - they keep harping back to the 12 deaths (across the country) last year , compared to 5 the year before, conveniently overlooking that the figure for this year to date is 2.

Bit like that horrific spate of deaths in London in the not so decent past. I remember Andrew Gilligan being slated for predicting that there would be regression to the mean (probably not the best time to bring it up, during the spate), but he was right. That high number last year does seem to be an anomaly among a run of otherwise good years.

UDP

It was a strange report without any discussion. If I didn't already commute by bike it would have frightened me into not starting. I suppose it was good that it highlighted the crazy setup with regards bike lanes.

Beasty

chicorytip wrote: »

It's astonishing to see the numbers of cyclists - the majority of those shown on the Prime Time report, for example - who still refuse to wear helmets. It ought to be made compulsory to do so, as it is for motorists to wear seat belts.

Please see the Charter/FAQs for a link to the forum megathread on helmets. Please read that thread and contribute there if you wish to discuss helmet use

Any questions, PM me - do not respond in-thread

Thanks

Jawgap

Difficult not to believe their timing has nothing to do with Bike Week next month?

Larbre34

Jawgap wrote: »

How many?

Watching The Departed.

They must have shown 20 examples, usual stuff you would see each day in Dublin town.

Tigerandahalf

The delivery dude with no helmet and taking his hands off the bars. I guess he is cool with the cap reversed.

Beasty

tomasrojo wrote: »

Bit like that horrific spate of deaths in London in the not so decent past. I remember Andrew Gilligan being slated for predicting that there would be regression to the mean (probably not the best time to bring it up, during the spate), but he was right. That high number last year does seem to be an anomaly among a run of otherwise good years.

IIRC the figure of 5 in 2013 was seen as an anomaly at the time. I think the figure had been hovering around 10-12 for a few years having dropped significantly in earlier years to get to that level in the first place

Jawgap

Larbre34 wrote: »

They must have shown 20 examples, usual stuff you would see each day in Dublin town.

Well that's not 'many' in the context of the number of cyclists and cycle journeys in Dublin on any given day.

Wonder how long they had to film to get those examples?

tipparetops

Cycling has to be regulated.
Compulsory for helmet, hi - vis jackets, third party insurance.
And a health and safety course, with a photo I.D card issued.

Larbre34

Jawgap wrote: »

Well that's not 'many' in the context of the number of cyclists and cycle journeys in Dublin on any given day.

Wonder how long they had to film to get those examples?

Come off it.

Tenzor07

Ermm...ok, that was pretty pointless..

RTE paid a reporter and camera crew to walk around town for 8 days, for what, hardly earth shattering investigative journalism!

Pointless waste of licence fee, even Tv3 could have done better!

tomasrojo

Beasty wrote: »

IIRC the figure of 5 in 2013 was seen as an anomaly at the time. I think the figure had been hovering around 10-12 for a few years having dropped significantly in earlier years to get to that level in the first place

Think 10-12 was fairly typical of the boom years alright. I think you're right: five was anomalously low, but I think twelve was also close to anomalously high in the context of the post-boom years (will have to check that). Mind you, this year looks more like a "five" than a "twelve" (deo volente).

EDIT:
http://273k.net/cycling/accidents.html says
1998, 21
1999, 14
2000, 10
2001, 12
2002, 18
2003, 11
2004, 11
2005, 10
2006, 13
2007, 17
2008, 15

Think the site owner stopped there, which is coincidentally where the boom ended too.

EDIT AGAIN:
monument to the rescue:


http://irishcycle.com/2014/01/01/cyclists-deaths-on-irish-roads-at-joint-low-in-2013/

I think the decline in road deaths up to 2008 (which looks significant, could do a regression calculation on it) is down to fewer cyclists to a large extent.

Tigerandahalf

The bike lanes in this Mean Streets doc are so narrow. Complete death traps.

ted1

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ermm...ok, that was pretty pointless..

RTE paid a reporter and camera crew to walk around town for 8 days, for what, hardly earth shattering investigative journalism!

Pointless waste of licence fee, even Tv3 could have done better!

I think that there was a last minute edit because of the Aer Lingus sale. I would imagine that the original edit had more detail

Andalucia

<snip>

L'Enfer du Nord

tipparetops wrote: »

Cycling has to be regulated.
Compulsory for helmet, hi - vis jackets, third party insurance.
And a health and safety course, with a photo I.D card issued.

Blah,Blah,Blah.

'The regulators' could start by enforcing existing traffic laws on cyclists. All the things you have listed would only serve to discourage cycling if made compulsory, without much benefit to anyone. Plenty of people in high-vis and helmets breaking red lights.

whupdedo

<snip>

Jawgap

Larbre34 wrote: »

Come off it.

Well my experience of cycling in the city is that a noticeable number, but not the majority by any means, of cyclists jump lights or cycle on the footpad.......

......just like a good proportion of drivers fail to follow road traffic laws (jumping reds, dangerous parking, speeding etc) as do a majority of pedestrians.

Jawgap

<snip>

Beasty

Larbre34 wrote: »

They must have shown 20 examples, usual stuff you would see each day in Dublin town.

It was about 12 actually and all but 4 of them were chosen simply to highlight examples of the 3 situations where the potential introduction of fixed penalty notices may be relevant

07Lapierre

Jawgap wrote: »

......just like a good proportion of drivers fail to follow road traffic laws (jumping reds, dangerous parking, speeding etc) as do a majority of pedestrians.

Maybe we should regulate car drivers! Make them take a test before getting behind the wheel..make insurance compulsory, stiff penalties for breaking the ROTR etc. that'll put manners on them!

tipparetops

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Blah,Blah,Blah.

'The regulators' could start by enforcing existing traffic laws on cyclists. All the things you have listed would only serve to discourage cycling if made compulsory, without much benefit to anyone. Plenty of people in high-vis and helmets breaking red lights.

Come on, do not deflect.
Cyclists are on public roads and have a right to be on them.
but they should have some insurance and health and safety gear.
It is common sense

Larbre34

Beasty wrote: »

It was about 12 actually and all but 4 of them were chosen simply to highlight examples of the 3 situations where the potential introduction of fixed penalty notices may be relevant

Do you deny that they couldnt have filled hours of footage with law breaking cyclists in Dublin. I know they could have.

tomasrojo

Larbre34 wrote: »

Do you deny that they couldnt have filled hours of footage with law breaking cyclists in Dublin. I know they could have.

Well, really, they could do that for any transport mode. This programme sounds as if it was put together with all the rigour of a YouTube channel.

Jawgap

07Lapierre wrote: »

Maybe we should regulate car drivers! Make them take a test before getting behind the wheel..make insurance compulsory, stiff penalties for breaking the ROTR etc. that'll put manners on them!

......only if they're made to drive hi-viz coloured cars