Piece on Cyclists on Prime Time RTE 1 9.35PM - Mod warning see OP/post 102

Beasty

greenfrogs wrote: »

People wear seat belts in cars. All of us know in some crashes no matter what safety gear you wear you will not survive. However there are less severe crashes where the appropriate safety gear can reduce injury.

To a previous poster I didn't realise concussion is such an issue in soccer and football. I can't believe rugby is even a sport. It's far too vicious for me.

Final warning - no more helmet discussion in this thread. Use the helmet megathread (which is linked from the Charter/FAQ sticky)

Any questions, PM me - do not respond in thread

Why do cyclists get so defensive?

I drive a motorbike, a car and I cycle. Cyclists in the main are dreadful, you have to remember this is an enthusiasts forum and you dont represent the standards of your average cyclist.

I don't know what the answer to insurance for cyclists but it is relevant to bring it up. Serious damage can be caused and you cant be immune because your vehicle doesn't have an engine.

Every day on a bike I use the things I was thought on the IBT for when I was learning to ride my motorbike, alot of cyclist could do with something similar.

When I say that I mean in a more precautionary way, I always assume a car is going to the worst thing possible, I know im vulnerable regardless of when im right. Lots of cyclists seem to prefer berating drivers poor skills than watching out for their own safety. Always presume the worst.

Tigerandahalf

I must admit I loved the courier guy on the bike. A dangerous job in the city with those narrow lanes.
He went about pointing out the mistakes of various car drivers, then goes down the street with no helmet (which in fairness he does not have to wear) and then takes his hands off the handlebars. He also dives into the tiniest little gaps in traffic. How he isn't killed I don't know.
The best bit was when he came up behind a fairly heavy guy cycling and starts to moan about these bike to work type cyclists. The ignorance of the chap is rather funny.
In looking at the programme it came across that both cyclists and motorists were unaware of some of the rules of the road but the biggest thing is that it isn't safe to putting cyclists and motorists down the same lanes of traffic.
I cycle and drive and have made plenty of errors doing both but as a cyclist you are very vulnerable. No second chance.

Carawaystick

greenfrogs wrote: »

To a previous poster I didn't realise concussion is such an issue in soccer and football. I can't believe rugby is even a sport. It's far too vicious for me.

You might have missed the last soccer world cup where players were knocked out and stayed playing after coming to. Or even if you just watched the final, the german keeper kicked an argentinian player in the head. Apparently this is not allowed as the german keeper got a free for the argentinian headbutting his foot, so at least fifa are trying their best to fix things...


And for tipparetops' great idea of photoid, how long would the id be valid for? because when little miss carawaystick is 13, she'll look a lot different to when she was 3 and cycling on the road.
I also wonder what the health part of the course entail? Would it dwell on childhood obesity and inactivity?
And when you say high viz, could you be clear as to what you mean? Could a cyclist wear high viz and then wear a backpack completely covering the high viz from behind?
Could the cyclist wear a fluorescent top with no retroreflective material at night?
Could a cyclist wear non-fluorescent top with lots of retroreflective material at night? You know because fluorescent material only shines when uv hits it and there's very little from headlights or streetlights so it is no better than ordinary cloth in the dark.

As for insurance, would there be a levy to help poor Seanie Quinn and to pay yer man Neary's gold plated pension?
Would it be necessary for scooters?
I presume you'ld like to see it compulsory for users for flickers too?
Do you think there'd be a cheaper rate for bikes with stabilisers?

Comic_book_guy_from_the_Simpsons wrote:

Worst. Idea. Ever.

greenfrogs

I think even showing how dangerous it can get for cyclists on their journey is interesting. Seeing on prime time when the cyclist and bus were both turning a corner it actually made me squirm. I don't cycle so therefore may not take into account things from a cyclists perspective. For example when I learned to drive I realised just how dangerous pedestrians can be by jay walking, not looking both ways before crossing etc. So now I would be more aware of my surroundings as a pedestrian. Seeing things from a cyclists perspective would be an eye opener. Near where I live there is a bad patch of road on the inside. I was once approaching a cyclist to overtake when all of a sudden he pulled out. He actually reached the white line. It really annoyed me as it was quite dangerous but now I know to be aware that this may happen again.

I do think the proposed fines should be introduced. It's all about making the roads safer for all road users.

greenfrogs

Carawaystick wrote: »

You might have missed the last soccer world cup where players were knocked out and stayed playing after coming to. Or even if you just watched the final, the german keeper kicked an argentinian player in the head. Apparently this is not allowed as the german keeper got a free for the argentinian headbutting his foot, so at least fifa are trying their best to fix things

In fact I did miss it. Even though you have the names of the teams who reached the final I couldn't tell you who won.

Sheldons Brain

vicwatson wrote: »

Anyone else notice at the start of the report the white ford transit 141D parked on the footpath and double yellow lines? Whilst the report carried on about dodgy cyclists !! Lol.

Probably because the van wasn't moving, unlike the cyclists.

monument

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Probably because the van wasn't moving, unlike the cyclists.

Did the driver drive the van onto the footpath or was it a driverless van which teleported onto the footpath?

tomasrojo

greenfrogs wrote: »

In fact I did miss it. Even though you have the names of the teams who reached the final I couldn't tell you who won.

Heading the ball can cause concussion too. Don't think it's regarded as a major problem yet. Unlike in American Football.

Qualitymark

Did the Prime Time programme make any proposals on improving cycle lanes?

Tenzor07

Qualitymark wrote: »

Did the Prime Time programme make any proposals on improving cycle lanes?

You're expecting something useful, positive and constructive to come from this tabloid journal piece...!

Pointless ****e which seems to have sparked the imaginations of some of the less well educated on here, as they spout on about how to fix what they think the humble bicyclist should do in there crusade to get to work alive...

Expecting perfect adherence to the rules of the road whilst facing death by motorised vehicle... Well, Miriam herself should be out giving the bicyclist medals!

Falcon L

I think the cycle courier, in the following piece, represented cyclists well. Weaving in and out of other traffic,cycling dangerously with no regard for other road users and pointing out the faults of others. And all this with no brakes... not even one. How many other road users get away with this kind of behaviour?

There's a lot of 'well cars break lights too... ' and the like. How many cars or motorbikes are flying around with no brakes?

Grandpa Hassan

Falcon L wrote: »

I think the cycle courier, in the following piece, represented cyclists well. Weaving in and out of other traffic,cycling dangerously with no regard for other road users and pointing out the faults of others. And all this with no brakes... not even one. How many other road users get away with this kind of behaviour?

There's a lot of 'well cars break lights too... ' and the like. How many cars or motorbikes are flying around with no brakes?

Well, this just shows how ignorant you are about cycling. That courier with 'no brakes' would have been riding a fixie. They can stop on a dime.

Beasty

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Well, this just shows how ignorant you are about cycling. That courier with 'no brakes' would have been riding a fixie. They can stop on a dime.

Even if they can, it's illegal in Ireland to ride a bike on the road with no brakes. A fixie requires at least one additional brake on the front wheel

CramCycle

I didn't think it was that bad considering how "tabloid" it is but there were one or two issues. Calling it a "war" for example, jebus, every morning I see, wave, smile and acknowledge a variety of road users, if we are at war, no one sent them or myself the message.

Reinforcing the word minority, which alot of people don't realise.

Annoyed about the statistic of "doubling" deaths, no grasp of statistics.

The only thing they should have had in was the lack of education at a national and secondary school level. I am lucky that my path through life has given me loads of education into road use, I am surprised how much of it looking back is not second nature but learned.

seamus

Funny the bit at the start with the helmet footage and my wife was like, "That stupid ****ing bus driver", whereas I was thinking, "Everyone in that scenario was a moron". Two guys trying to overtake a bus on the left on a bend, and a bus driver just ploughing on through like nothing was happening.

On a lighter note, I was in last night's programme. Well, my left arm and helmet was, I spotted them filming during the week and it was only last night when I heard this was on that it clicked, "Oh ****, I hope I'm not in it"

The bit with the cycling Garda confirmed a theory of mine - if you are a traffic cop who's not in a car, you must become really numb to minor infringements, to the point that you don't even bother half the time. I mean, you literally cannot go 30 seconds in the city without seeing someone - ped, bike, car, van, bus, truck - doing something wrong. In that case, he has literally just finished having a chat with the cyclist, and some woman steps off the road out in front of him. And seems oblivious to what she's done wrong.

Doing that job must be the most frustrating thing in the world - so many lawbreakers, not enough time.

Falcon L

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Well, this just shows how ignorant you are about cycling. That courier with 'no brakes' would have been riding a fixie. They can stop on a dime.

Then why was he using his feet to stop.

Don't assume ignorance. I cycled fixed gear when I was younger. His rear cog looked like a free-wheeler to me.

NS77

tipparetops wrote: »

It is cyclists like you that do not get it.
How could someone be against a helmet and a Hi- Vis.
How could someone be against cyclists having insurance, considering bicycles come so close to cars,trucks,pedestrians.
These is no point a cyclist saying motorists do not get it, if they are dead or badly injured.

I have no problem with cyclists, but it is time for tough new rules regards who can take a push bike onto a road with heavy traffic.

Don't get me wrong - there are a significant minority of cyclists that are a danger to themselves and others, and should be punished accordingly.

However, advocating helmets, hi-viz., etc., is pretty much just victim blaming. The best way to improve cyclists safety? Improve driver behaviour!

Over the last two days (both as a driver and cyclist) I've witnessed crazy overtaking maneouvres by drivers passing cyclists

Monday while on my bike (while wearing hi-viz and a helmet):

• Large VW crafter and Audi speed by me with only inches to spare. Large van causes me to wobble, Audi close enough to hit my arm if I reached out
• Toyota Corrolla over takes me on blind corner & on the brow of a hill. Realises there's oncoming traffic mid-maneouvre and can only complete because the on coming hire-car slows to a stop
• Silver Ford Focus over takes me approaching bend. Realises they've miscalculated the their move and my speed. Pulls in on top of me to get onto the correct side of the road before bend ("Baby on board" sign dangling in the rear window)

Yesterday in the car:

• Black Audi overtakes inexperienced cyclist into my path almost causing a head-on collision. I brake, he squeezes by me and cyclist with inches to spare

There are sadly a few motorists that just don't get it. There are a few that don't get that we are humans - flesh and blood - going about our daily business, wanting to get home to our families, just like everyone else.

L'Enfer du Nord

tipparetops wrote: »

It is cyclists like you that do not get it.
How could someone be against a helmet and a Hi- Vis.
How could someone be against cyclists having insurance, considering bicycles come so close to cars,trucks,pedestrians.
These is no point a cyclist saying motorists do not get it, if they are dead or badly injured.

I have no problem with cyclists, but it is time for tough new rules regards who can take a push bike onto a road with heavy traffic.

Your language betrays you. If your suggestions are so reasonable why are they tough?

None of the suggestions you have come up with (safety equipment, insurance) are as clear cut as you seem to think. You accuses me of deflecting when I point out that existing rules in relation to obeying traffic laws should be enforced for a start. An other thing that should really be enforced more is lights on bikes after dark.

07Lapierre

Falcon L wrote: »

I think the cycle courier, in the following piece, represented cyclists well. Weaving in and out of other traffic,cycling dangerously with no regard for other road users and pointing out the faults of others. And all this with no brakes... not even one. How many other road users get away with this kind of behaviour?

There's a lot of 'well cars break lights too... ' and the like. How many cars or motorbikes are flying around with no brakes?

Comparing ALL cyclist to ONE cycle Courier is a bit like comparing ALL motorists to ONE Boy Racer or One "White Van Driver"...Pointless.

I thought he was a good example of a Cycle Courier...a bit cocky but then... I think you have to be to do that job.

CramCycle

Falcon L wrote: »

I think the cycle courier, in the following piece, represented cyclists well. Weaving in and out of other traffic,cycling dangerously with no regard for other road users and pointing out the faults of others. And all this with no brakes... not even one. How many other road users get away with this kind of behaviour?

There's a lot of 'well cars break lights too... ' and the like. How many cars or motorbikes are flying around with no brakes?

He represents cyclists well?!? What were you watching. He was one of the worst cyclists I have ever seen, I know several from the company he works for, none are as idiotic in their control of a bike.

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Well, this just shows how ignorant you are about cycling. That courier with 'no brakes' would have been riding a fixie. They can stop on a dime.

No, they can't, only if going reasonably slowly. Your front brake is what gives you decent stopping power. The rear one, at speed, will just skid and slow you if travelling at speed.

Falcon L

CramCycle wrote: »

He represents cyclists well?!? What were you watching. He was one of the worst cyclists I have ever seen, I know several from the company he works for, none are as idiotic in their control of a bike.

Sorry, I forgot to add the sarcasm tag.

NS77

Falcon L wrote: »

There's a lot of 'well cars break lights too... ' and the like. How many cars or motorbikes are flying around with no brakes?

I dunno about no brakes.... but a lot of dodgy cars out there:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/more-cars-than-ever-failing-nct-test-1.2089979

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/how-200000-of-us-risk-our-lives-in-potentially-dangerous-cars-31142507.html

CramCycle

Falcon L wrote: »

Sorry, I forgot to add the sarcasm tag.

It's not lunchtime yet so Sarcasm isn't a recognised form of communication yet.

Can't believe they are showing PT on a Thursday night, this is a great Friday thread.

nak

Falcon L wrote: »

Then why was he using his feet to stop.

Don't assume ignorance. I cycled fixed gear when I was younger. His rear cog looked like a free-wheeler to me.

He rides a fixie. No courier would ride a brakeless singlespeed.

CramCycle

nak wrote: »

He rides a fixie. No courier would ride a brakeless singlespeed.

I have seen brakeless single speeds in Ranelagh, not saying the courier was or wasn't (I didn't watch it as it was a re run and I remember it being idiotic the first time).

Just making the point, that just because you or I cannot comprehend the levels of stupidity (even when it is witnessed) present on the road, does not mean that there are not those who not only stretch the possibilities for idiots but there will always be one more to drag it down further to the point where, at some stage, I expect someone with no perceptible brain function interacting with society on a social level.

nak

CramCycle wrote: »

I have seen brakeless single speeds in Ranelagh, not saying the courier was or wasn't (I didn't watch it as it was a re run and I remember it being idiotic the first time).

Just making the point, that just because you or I cannot comprehend the levels of stupidity (even when it is witnessed) present on the road, does not mean that there are not those who not only stretch the possibilities for idiots but there will always be one more to drag it down further to the point where, at some stage, I expect someone with no perceptible brain function interacting with society on a social level.

Have seen a good few people riding brakeless fixies with flat pedals (no toestraps). Clueless. One had a child in a baby seat on the back, the couriers who witnessed that were horrified.

kerry4sam

Just watching this again and that Guard came across well. Fair play to whoever authorised him being on PrimeTime.

Shocked me lastnight watching the environment cyclists are cycling in throughout Dublin. Sharing a road-space that miniscule just frightened me at times watching, never mind having the confidence to do it as often as they do.

It was an eye-opener to me and certainly made me realise just how lucky we have it down here. In saying we have it lucky; if they were to start being pro-active about cyclists breaking the ROTR down here, then they'd have to start on the JauntingCars also who
~ break red-lights
~ walk out into moving traffic to stop the cars with right-of-way just to ferry 'business' across to their jauntingcart
~ mosey on through roundabouts as if they're alone on the roads.

Not sure if they will start down my way with the headaches that will follow tbh. Every section of our Community break the ROTR though, even pedestrians but being pro-active about road-safety needs priority as the roads get busier for the next number of months.

Cycling in Dublin does need improving though, but
~ will anything actually be done?
~ Are finances in place to improve matters?
~ Have they necessary park-&-ride/cycle available to curtail the numbers of motorists in the city at peak-times?

Jeez, I've been reading postings & hearing stories for years but until it's shown, you never really appreciate the full-extent. Rarely travel to Dublin and when I do it's bus/luas and wouldn't always see the scenarios spoken about and shown on this PrimeTime and MeanStreets.

Interesting programmes for me to watch anyways by PrimeTime & MeanStreets. Even if it frightened me at times watching some of the maneuvers by all involved.

Certainly an Eye-Opener.
Thanks,
kerry4sam

tomasrojo

Am I the only person who mostly has a very easy time of it cycling in Dublin?

ThisRegard

CramCycle wrote: »

(I didn't watch it as it was a re run and I remember it being idiotic the first time).

I only caught a minute of it and thought that I've seen this before, because of the courier. It was on before wasn't it ?

If so, I pointed at the first time that that courier was the only cyclist that I had a bad encounter with in my 15 years or so of working and driving in the city centre. I was turning right out of Hume Street onto Stephens Green and he came up on my right and cut across the front of the car while turning to get to the leftmost lane on the green itself. But he timed it badly and would have been knocked off if I didn't brake very hard and he himself didn't stop in time. He turned to me and told me it was my fault before cycling off. I knew he got a fright, plus had it genuinely been my fault, he wouldn't have been so sanguine about it.

Alf Veedersane

CramCycle wrote: »

Just making the point, that just because you or I cannot comprehend the levels of stupidity (even when it is witnessed) present on the road, does not mean that there are not those who not only stretch the possibilities for idiots but there will always be one more to drag it down further to the point where, at some stage, I expect someone with no perceptible brain function interacting with society on a social level.

I always operate on the presumption that everyone else on the road is capable of picking the most stupid option available to them at a given time, be they pedestrian, drivers or other cyclists.

Whatever the percentage of people is that will make the most stupid decision they can, there will always be one out there so better to expect the worst and hope for the best.

Beasty

kerry4sam wrote: »

Shocked me lastnight watching the environment cyclists are cycling in throughout Dublin. Sharing a road-space that miniscule just frightened me at times watching, never mind having the confidence to do it as often as they do.

It took them 8 days of filming to get the "new" footage they broadcast. Those Youtube clips clearly were picked for their "shock" factor. As pointed out by one or two posters already, cycling in Dublin is really not that dangerous (provided you cycle sensibly)

CramCycle

tomasrojo wrote: »

Am I the only person who mostly has a very easy time of it cycling in Dublin?

I have a very easy time of it, it has gotten easier over the years. I realise I rant alot on here but those rants are not even 0.01% of my time on a bike and once I rant they never enter my head again.

The majority of the time, its my cycle that puts me in a good mood for the day, it is what helps me unwind on the way home, it's the friendly waves and nods, the acknowledgements when you are polite, the odd chats, the help when its needed, if your not happy as you cycle around Dublin, you probably will never be happy anyway.

Granolite

tomasrojo wrote: »

Am I the only person who mostly has a very easy time of it cycling in Dublin?

No I'm with you on that. I think some people just need to get out more and not so willingly accept lazy media and pro-establishment discourse / sound-bytes as having their interests in mind or society at large for that matter.

Might I also add people just need to open their eyes, be a bit more self aware and be cogniscant of the risks without being intimidated by them.

endacl

Beasty wrote: »

Gave up on that when I started track racing .....:P

Sheldons Brain

monument wrote: »

Did the driver drive the van onto the footpath or was it a driverless van which teleported onto the footpath?

Of course he drove on the footpath, but he did not drive along the footpath for 200m as ******* cyclists routinely do.

seamus

tomasrojo wrote: »

Am I the only person who mostly has a very easy time of it cycling in Dublin?

It has gotten way easier in the last 5 years. No doubt some of that comes from personal confidence and attitude. I'm much more likely to hang back now and take my time rather than aggressively weave in and out of stopped traffic or squeeze by slow moving cars and cyclists.

But I find in general other traffic to be more tolerant now than ever, especially during peak times. People are more frustrated and more likely to do rash things, but they also seem to accept that they're going nowhere fast and so don't go out of their way to squeeze you out. Hitting the city streets at other times (especially in the evenings, janey mack) reveals a different attitude, a very much, "GTFO of my way" attitude where taxis, busses and other cars will take serious risks to try and get past you.

nak

tomasrojo wrote: »

Am I the only person who mostly has a very easy time of it cycling in Dublin?

No, generally ok. Especially if on a Dublin bike, find that people give me more room than if I was in roadie mode. I have had close calls (mostly caused by people on the phone while driving), but choose routes that avoid the worst of the traffic.

Driving annoys me more which is why I try and avoid it.

Alf Veedersane

I've never had a problem. I make what I consider to be sensible choices and avoid situations like cycling along inside buses for too long.

I don't have a long commute or anything but the 15 minuteso n the bike to the Dart station in the morning is a lovelly start to the day, as sad as that is

tipparetops

Going by posts here there seems to be a cyclists v motorists thinking.

This really is city thinking, not enough people cycle in rural Ireland for this to be a issue.
The only cyclists you see are the ones that get dressed up at the weekends.

I have no problem with cyclists, I just do not understand why some cyclists are against safety.

CramCycle

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Of course he drove on the footpath, but he did not drive along the footpath for 200m as ******* cyclists routinely do.

MOD VOICE: Please read the forum charter before posting again, if you need clarification, please PM me and do not respond in thread. I presume ******* is meant to say "an incredibly small minority, who have been widely admonished by most cyclists on this forum and in the real world, of".

NS77

tipparetops wrote: »

Going by posts here there seems to be a cyclists v motorists thinking.

Not necessarily... perhaps a better summation may be responsible road users vs irresponsible ones?

tipparetops

NS77 wrote: »

Not necessarily... perhaps a better summation may be responsible road users vs irresponsible ones?

So a responsible cyclist should wear safety gear.

Alf Veedersane

tipparetops wrote: »

So a responsible cyclist should wear safety gear.

Yes.

But the absence of safety gear doesn't automatically render the cyclist irresponsible.

Chips Lovell

Beasty wrote: »

As pointed out by one or two posters already, cycling in Dublin is really not that dangerous (provided you cycle sensibly)

Agreed. I find it very safe. No more dangerous than driving in Dublin.

monkeyslayer

I thought it was a good piece, having being smashed up myself in city centre traffic a couple of times thru no fault of my own I can't say I'd disagree with any of it, some of the sh*t i see some cyclists do in the city is disgraceful. I do think motorists have a lot to answer for too.

tipparetops

There is no talking to ye, maybe to be a cyclist you have to be confident.
If cyclists were to really think about what they were doing, they wouldnt.

CramCycle

tipparetops wrote: »

If cyclists were to really think about what they were doing, they wouldnt.

Any chance you could explain that statement, wouldn't do what? Cycle to work and get in quicker? Stay generally healthier than those who commute by car? Reduce traffic volume for those who do travel by car and bus?

Genetics have not been kind to me in terms of metabolic state and life expectancy, if I gave up cycling, it would be the equivalent of giving up about 25 years of my life if I live as long as predicted, with the last few years, statistically, being not the most pleasant.

Could I get my exercise somewhere else, sure, but then I would have less time with my family and friends and my mental health would suffer. The few times I have drove in or got the bus, I am less awake and for all intents and purposes, cost my company money as it takes me awhile to hit full speed.

tomasrojo

Habitual cyclists do indeed live longer than people who habitually travel by motorised transport. That's even before factoring out deaths by road collision. So, to turn it around, if non-cyclists were to really think about what they weren't doing, they would.

Johnny Jukebox

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Agreed. I find it very safe. No more dangerous than driving in Dublin.

Same here, I commute 40kms a day, have been riding a bike in Dublin for 41 years.

To echo others, ride defensively, expect the worst, be grateful for anything else. Oh and hydro disk brakes too.