New Cork - Dublin Express launched

ardmacha

ardmacha wrote: »

This doesn't make sense, railway demand is not a large part of the national demand for electricity. The DART has several trains moving at the same time on the network and nobody has suggested that is a problem.

The DART is also tiny in the broad scale of things. Try electrifying Dublin-Cork, Galway and Belfast and you'll have a problem.

stehyl15

Italy has a large electrified railway network and only it dosen't have any nuclear reactors altough it imports a small amount.

lucernarian

Karsini wrote: »

The DART is also tiny in the broad scale of things. Try electrifying Dublin-Cork, Galway and Belfast and you'll have a problem.

As I explained above, there is simply no problem even with all those examples. Still less than 50 MW demand at most.

n1ey

lucernarian wrote: »

Power generation and power transmission are two quite different things. Looking at a single electric locomotive at around 4 or so MW max power, this is far smaller than the output of most gas turbine or peat power plants. Supposing 5 are in operation at any one time between Dublin and Cork, that 22 MW demand can easily be supplied via Eirgrid with a few 38 kV to MV substations along the route. Nothing particularly challenging compared to erecting hundreds of km of catenary wire and the cost of electric locos themselves.

Whatever the problem in Connecticut, it's hard to imagine what it could be unless it runs through comparatively remote parts of the state and (more likely) the line was electrified with much lower speeds envisaged by planners and also they installed the bare minimum of substations. If trains need more power through the wires than the existing substations and catenary can supply, either the catenary will have to be replaced with thicker wire or else the amount of substations will need to be doubled over the relevant stretch.

The grid can not simply dump power anywhere. You need the feedline to the substations. You need the plants to power the substations. My understand is that Ireland barely has enough generation capacity. Coal can not be reduced due to this issue.

Places like France have many power plants throughout the country side and an extensive grid. New England suffers from an insufficient grid. Even if power was available it could not be delivered to the trackside. Lots of power generation will never reach.

Ireland has a similar lack of power networks.

Bill

dowlingm

n1ey wrote: »

Where do you get the electricity for this? On-demand requirements of trains are not easy to fulfill. Amtrak(NPRC) struggles with electricity availability in Connecticut.

Bill

east or west of New Haven?

At 25kV the substations can be widely spaced so more optimally located vs grid connections

loyatemu

Battery powered trains charged from large-scale wind and solar generation on Irish Rail's extensive properties? (I realise this is drifting off-topic in the realms of fantasy...)

cgcsb

Back on topic I think the new express service is fab. More of the same please. The express train is now a full 45 minutes faster than similar bus services. I note that track improvements between Hazelhatch and Portlaoise are ongoing and set to deliver more journey time improvement. Hopefully next year one could expect and express journey of under 2 hours.

Ultimately electrification and new rolling stock that comes with it should be aiming for a 90 minute journey.

Jamie2k9

cgcsb wrote: »

Back on topic I think the new express service is fab. More of the same please. The express train is now a full 45 minutes faster than similar bus services. I note that track improvements between Hazelhatch and Portlaoise are ongoing and set to deliver more journey time improvement. Hopefully next year one could expect and express journey of under 2 hours.

Ultimately electrification and new rolling stock that comes with it should be aiming for a 90 minute journey.

Fab for Cork passengers not for anybody else. More stupidity on IE behalf implementing such a service without a new timetable. Glorified PR stunt IMO

trellheim

Back on topic I think the new express service is fab. More of the same please. The express train is now a full 45 minutes faster than similar bus services. I note that track improvements between Hazelhatch and Portlaoise are ongoing and set to deliver more journey time improvement. Hopefully next year one could expect and express journey of under 2 hours.

Why is there no similar journey in the other direction leaving Heuston at 0615

Losty Dublin

trellheim wrote: »

Why is there no similar journey in the other direction leaving Heuston at 0615

Simply put, the demand isn't there for an early train out of Dublin.

trellheim

Simply put, the demand isn't there for an early train out of Dublin.

based on what evidence

Losty Dublin

trellheim wrote: »

based on what evidence

The evidence of years of lighter loadings ex Dublin compared to those who are heading to Dublin. The 7AM and 8AM do fairly well but aren't overloaded by any stretch.

Jamie2k9

trellheim wrote: »

based on what evidence

The 17.00 Heuston-Cork which is only 10 minutes longer, strip Limerick/Tralee traffic off Cork trains and numbers take a considerable drop.

end of the road

i'm sure they can put a 3 car ICR on it seeing as they are so happy to use them on the cork line. or heres an idea, do something to encourage business?

trellheim

The 7AM and 8AM do fairly well but aren't overloaded by any stretch

BECAUSE YOU CANT GET TO CORK BY 9AM TO DO A WORKING DAY , I mean is that so hard to understand ? We have to get in our motors and drive all that fking way down to be at desks by 0900 ; of course theyre not overloaded - the'yre for the people whos jobs or clients let them be later , which is a small fking subset.

And thats not evidence either - which is what I asked for. Any arrival post 0900 is useless from this point of view. A MK4 stopping only at the Jn & Mallow, rolling into Kent at 0830 would be excellent

savagethegoat

loyatemu wrote: »

Battery powered trains charged from large-scale wind and solar generation on Irish Rail's extensive properties? (I realise this is drifting off-topic in the realms of fantasy...)

that might Drumm up some trade

loyatemu

savagethegoat wrote: »

that might Drumm up some trade

well apparently it is being worked on: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/13/low-carbon-battery-powered-train-carries-first-passengers

some way away from being practical for inter-city services though.

goingnowhere

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Simply put, the demand isn't there for an early train out of Dublin.

Let me rewrite that

Simply put, the demand isn't there for an early train out of Cork

I don't call 50 people enough to justify 2 trains which clog up the system for other trains

GM228

loyatemu wrote: »

well apparently it is being worked on: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/13/low-carbon-battery-powered-train-carries-first-passengers

some way away from being practical for inter-city services though.

I know someone involved with this and there were problems involved, the train was supposed run pan down between Manningtree and Harwich and pan up in the reverse but the batteries were running down too quick/not charging quick enough and it ran with the pan up more than it should of, still it was only a trial so lessons will be learned for the next phase if approved.

Also with this method it wasn't just a complete stand alone battery train-full scale electrification still required.

GM228

SpaceTime

n1ey wrote: »

The grid can not simply dump power anywhere. You need the feedline to the substations. You need the plants to power the substations. My understand is that Ireland barely has enough generation capacity. Coal can not be reduced due to this issue.

Places like France have many power plants throughout the country side and an extensive grid. New England suffers from an insufficient grid. Even if power was available it could not be delivered to the trackside. Lots of power generation will never reach.

Ireland has a similar lack of power networks.

Bill

Not the case at all. Ireland has plenty of generation capacity it's tight but sufficient.

The only issue you'd have is getting power to remote sections of lines as we've very low population and you might have to run dedicated lines to get power from eirgrid to some lines.

The grid is built to serve populations not overbuilt to provide limitless power at every location and it doesn't necessarily follow the routes of railways.

A low density rail network wouldn't be a major load. It's not a busy TGV line with trains with 5 mins between each.

Also there would generally be no issue getting 38kV or even 110kV at any of the towns along the lines. Dublin to Cork and Dublin to Belfast aren't too remote at most stages.

You'd have issues with Sligo and possibly Galway though. They pass through very sparse areas.

The issue certainly wouldn't be one of lack of generation capacity just one of having sufficient power available at locations along the routes.

You can imagine the political issues running even minor 38kV power lines over land would cause too. Ireland is incredibly hostile to any cabling projects.

You can have a read of the all-island grid reports here:

http://www.eirgrid.com/media/Generation%20Capacity%20Statement%202014.pdf

BoatMad

lxflyer wrote: »

Let's not get carried away here. Virtually all long distance workings are now ICR/Mk 4 rostered, with the exceptions being:

Dublin/Sligo
The 29000s are only on 2 Intercity trains on the Sligo route for capacity reasons principally:

Sundays only:
09:05 ex-Connolly
18:00 ex-Sligo

Dublin/Rosslare
The only other workings that have a 29000 on it is on the Rosslare route and again is down to one of the services primarily being a commuter service:

Monday to Friday:
05:35 Rosslare-Dundalk
16:37 Connolly-Rosslare

Again, some people seem to have a "head in the sand" mentality - when times are tough organisations have to make difficult decisions for cost reasons whether people like it or not. Sometimes you just cannot afford to do everything you would like, and having to put Mark 4 sets into storage was one of those difficult decisions.

dublin rosslare is a nearly three hour run, even accepting Gorey is within commuting distance this is nearly 2 hours on a 29000, without a toilet

The 2013 strategic rail review rightly criticised IE for operating a commuter train on a clearly ICR route and IR need to get the 29K of it

Thedarkb

savagethegoat wrote: »

that might Drumm up some trade

was that a pun on the Drumm Battery train?

dowlingm

An early ex Dublin not only gets people into Cork before work but also into Limerick with a stop at the Junction. There's a regional business competitiveness angle here which should be part of why IE gets a subsidy in the first place. I find the demand excuse particularly bogus from IE management (as opposed to Losty) when the case for the Alan Kelly express was patently laughable, was greenlighted anyway and then bollixed the morning peak whereas an early to Cork would be heading against the peak flow with a clear run beyond Portlaoise.

LXFlyer

BoatMad wrote: »

dublin rosslare is a nearly three hour run, even accepting Gorey is within commuting distance this is nearly 2 hours on a 29000, without a toilet

The 2013 strategic rail review rightly criticised IE for operating a commuter train on a clearly ICR route and IR need to get the 29K of it

29000s have a toilet so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that.

L1011

BoatMad wrote: »

dublin rosslare is a nearly three hour run, even accepting Gorey is within commuting distance this is nearly 2 hours on a 29000, without a toilet

The 2013 strategic rail review rightly criticised IE for operating a commuter train on a clearly ICR route and IR need to get the 29K of it

29k stock have toilets

loyatemu

BoatMad wrote: »

dublin rosslare is a nearly three hour run, even accepting Gorey is within commuting distance this is nearly 2 hours on a 29000, without a toilet

The 2013 strategic rail review rightly criticised IE for operating a commuter train on a clearly ICR route and IR need to get the 29K of it

The Wexford services that use Commuter stock generally are commuter services - most passengers get on/off in Bray/Greystones/Wicklow.

Arguably the evening (1735) service should use the Commuter stock as well as it is regularly jammed to capacity and the 22Ks aren't well suited to having a lot of people standing.

goingnowhere

loyatemu wrote: »

The Wexford services that use Commuter stock generally are commuter services - most passengers get on/off in Bray/Greystones/Wicklow.

Arguably the evening (1735) service should use the Commuter stock as well as it is regularly jammed to capacity and the 22Ks aren't well suited to having a lot of people standing.

4 coach 22k has 60+ more seats than a 29k

29k stock is a lot more common on Sligo and Rosslare services than some here have suggested. The price we pay for the Mk4 sets not doing what the Mk4 was bought to do

Captain Chaos

goingnowhere wrote: »

4 coach 22k has 60+ more seats than a 29k

It has 60 more seat but a 29k has alot more standing area for more people overall. You don't have much to hold to while standing in an ICR while a 29k is far more suitable for crush load services.

LXFlyer

goingnowhere wrote: »

4 coach 22k has 60+ more seats than a 29k

29k stock is a lot more common on Sligo and Rosslare services than some here have suggested. The price we pay for the Mk4 sets not doing what the Mk4 was bought to do

What I have quoted above is what trains are rostered for 29k.

If there is a failure that can change, which can be the lunchtime service to Rosslare and evening return.

I don't agree that there are more 29k sets on Sligo - it is only the one return train each week.

There are the two Longford commuter services but there is only one Sligo.

At the risk of repeating myself, you don't seem to realise that IE was almost insolvent and the implications that has. You just cannot expect normality to continue in those circumstances. Difficult decisions have to be taken in those situations which (such as shorter trains, and Mark 4s in storage) while not popular, have to be taken in order to stabilize the company's finances, given that the economic situation in our country meant that state finance was being cut back.

goingnowhere

Today
13:05 to Sligo almost certainly a 29k set
13:36 to Rosslare almost certainly a 29k set

savagethegoat

Thedarkb wrote: »

was that a pun on the Drumm Battery train?

yep, noone else noticed

loyatemu

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It has 60 more seat but a 29k has alot more standing area for more people overall. You don't have much to hold to while standing in an ICR while a 29k is far more suitable for crush load services.

It's also slower & more difficult to get people in and out of the train with the doors at the end of the carriages, narrower passageways etc. There's a reason commuter trains aren't laid out like that.

LXFlyer

goingnowhere wrote: »

Today
13:05 to Sligo almost certainly a 29k set
13:36 to Rosslare almost certainly a 29k set

The 13:05 to Sligo has not been a 29k in a long time, given it comes off the morning Rosslare.

In the past that train did have 29k sets on Fridays, but that changed a couple of years ago.

The only Sligo trains rostered for a 29k are the Sunday ones.

The Rosslare can be a 29k if there is a failure/set shortage.

stehyl15

On very rare ocassions even The Enterprise could be a 29k whicn is extremely rare but it does happen

flyingsnail

stehyl15 wrote: »

On very rare ocassions even The Enterprise could be a 29k whicn is extremely rare but it does happen

Pretty much any stock (with the exception of De Detrich and Mk4) could appear on any service depending on what failed and what was available. I have done Limerick to Dublin on a 2700

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

29000s have a toilet so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that.

well they seem to spend more time out of order then not, or maybe i'm just extremely unlucky when i have to endure these rattely uncomfortable noisy freezing heaps.

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

The Wexford services that use Commuter stock generally are commuter services - most passengers get on/off in Bray/Greystones/Wicklow.

Arguably the evening (1735) service should use the Commuter stock as well as it is regularly jammed to capacity and the 22Ks aren't well suited to having a lot of people standing.

its an example of where commuter traffic doesn't equal commuter train. this is why extra services should be run to wicklow which can use the commuter stock and allow the rosslare services have stops removed so the proper regional stock designed for long distances can be used. 29s are been stolen from the maynooth droghida and m3 parkway services which i see 22ks often doing while a 29 goes down the country. people seem to forget about attracting more to use the trains in this situation which for a line like rosslare is vitally important if its to survive long term. but maybe i'm the only one who gives a damn, if so so be it.

end of the road

goingnowhere wrote: »

4 coach 22k has 60+ more seats than a 29k

29k stock is a lot more common on Sligo and Rosslare services than some here have suggested. The price we pay for the Mk4 sets not doing what the Mk4 was bought to do

absolutely. the dinner time rosslare bound is often a 29k. no service is safe from them. its simply operationally convenient for them to be used. infact even if mk4s went back on to all corks 29s would still turn up. i would suggest the use of ICRS on the rosslare line and maybe the sligo line was never the plan. no point in passengers doing anything as IE won't listen, they will shut and rip up lines before they will listen to their passengers

end of the road

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It has 60 more seat but a 29k has alot more standing area for more people overall. You don't have much to hold to while standing in an ICR while a 29k is far more suitable for crush load services.

wexford services are hardly ever crush loaded. its once they get to greystones that loadings rise and where a 29s layout comes in handy. extra services to wicklow would come in handy for this but the dart extension to greystones fecked that up

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

What I have quoted above is what trains are rostered for 29k.

If there is a failure that can change, which can be the lunchtime service to Rosslare and evening return.

I don't agree that there are more 29k sets on Sligo - it is only the one return train each week.

There are the two Longford commuter services but there is only one Sligo.

At the risk of repeating myself, you don't seem to realise that IE was almost insolvent and the implications that has. You just cannot expect normality to continue in those circumstances. Difficult decisions have to be taken in those situations which (such as shorter trains, and Mark 4s in storage) while not popular, have to be taken in order to stabilize the company's finances, given that the economic situation in our country meant that state finance was being cut back.

i've seen it for myself. the dinner time down being a 29 happens a lot. difficult decisians my backside. its simply cut whatever the cost including driving away passengers. thats what shorter trains do. thats not going to sort out the company. the government can well afford to fund public transport better then it does.

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

It's also slower & more difficult to get people in and out of the train with the doors at the end of the carriages, narrower passageways etc. There's a reason commuter trains aren't laid out like that.

doesn't seem to be an issue on the portlaoise depot runs sorry i mean commuter/suburban services. or anywhere else. it doesn't effect times on the rosslare line its still as slow as ever and getting slower something that isn't going to change. as i said a 22k can well cope between rosslare and greystones

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

The 13:05 to Sligo has not been a 29k in a long time, given it comes off the morning Rosslare.

In the past that train did have 29k sets on Fridays, but that changed a couple of years ago.

The only Sligo trains rostered for a 29k are the Sunday ones.

The Rosslare can be a 29k if there is a failure/set shortage.

as i said its often a 29k. believe me disbelieve me up to you. there can't be a set failure or shortage that often unless the 22ks are falling to bits all ready.

SpaceTime

Seems unlikely although I walked past one on the platform at Heustonthat looked like it had been sand blasted or etched with acid!

Very odd damage all over one side of several coaches. Looked like it would need a complete repainting job.

Any idea how what happened?!

Thedarkb

SpaceTime wrote: »

Seems unlikely although I walked past one on the platform at Heustonthat looked like it had been sand blasted or etched with acid!

Very odd damage all over one side of several coaches. Looked like it would need a complete repainting job.

Any idea how what happened?!

any pix?

SpaceTime

Thedarkb wrote: »

any pix?

No, I was just walking past in a rush. It just looked odd to see so much surface damage though.

CINCLANTFLT

It does suit me to get the early train this morning but...
3 carriages = 3 toilets... 1 seems to be permanently occupied, so I take it that it is out of order...
I used one of the other 2... went to wash my hands, soap on... no water to wash it off... cleaned my hands off with some bog roll and then tried to wash my hands again in the last of the 3 toilets... no water in the taps again...

I'd complain, but I have yet to see someone from IE other than the lady with the trolley...

So sitting here typing with sticky, yucky hands... I think they started to advertise this as a "business train", but I am guessing that idea is gone out the window now?

Finally, it is 3 carriages, the type with the Diesel engine underneath... no idea what they are called... There doesn't seem to be a "First Class" or CityGold... also you can't book 1st class on the website for the 06:!5 train, so I think that whole business train thing is dead or maybe never really existed...

So a convenient train time, but nothing else really...

JMC

Cerdito

Unhappy with this new train. Causes my train (7.58) from Sallins to be delayed nearly every day now. We have to sit up at Parkwest until it passes through. Just spent 10 mins there this morning.

It's also affecting the 8.19 from sallins which can't leave Newbridge until it goes through. I think many more people are experiencing downsides than those who benefit from the service.

Predicting it will be even worse in winter with further delays. Our local councillor meet with IR last week who said there's a new timetable coming early 2016 but that's a good bit away.

Del.Monte

CINCLANTFLT wrote: »

It does suit me to get the early train this morning but...
3 carriages = 3 toilets... 1 seems to be permanently occupied, so I take it that it is out of order...
I used one of the other 2... went to wash my hands, soap on... no water to wash it off... cleaned my hands off with some bog roll and then tried to wash my hands again in the last of the 3 toilets... no water in the taps again...

I'd complain, but I have yet to see someone from IE other than the lady with the trolley...

So sitting here typing with sticky, yucky hands... I think they started to advertise this as a "business train", but I am guessing that idea is gone out the window now?

Finally, it is 3 carriages, the type with the Diesel engine underneath... no idea what they are called... There doesn't seem to be a "First Class" or CityGold... also you can't book 1st class on the website for the 06:!5 train, so I think that whole business train thing is dead or maybe never really existed...

So a convenient train time, but nothing else really...

JMC

A real feeling of déjà vu about this post. You don't really expect IE to maintain the trains properly do you?

savagethegoat

but did you complain to them?

Del.Monte

savagethegoat wrote: »

but did you complain to them?

Why would you bother, CIE has a problem with servicing toilets on trains here since I can remember - mid 1960s.