RWC 2015 - build-up thread

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

Like the opener of last season's 6N with POC absent when Toner ran the set piece which we dominated and Ireland hammered Scotland?

I don't think you're going to get very far with this. Some people made up their mind about Toner a long time before they ever saw him play for Ireland.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think you're going to get very far with this. Some people made up their mind about Toner a long time before they ever saw him play for Ireland.

Yep. I have a mate, who'd be a casual fan, I meet up with him for Leinster or Ireland games, and whenever he hears Toner is playing he's all 'Ah not that lanky so and so' and before I can correct him he always goes, 'I know, I know! I know he's playing really well lately, but I just hate him. I can't help it, I think he's useless!'.

I find it hilarious, but some people just have it in for him and can't help it.

molloyjh

flangemeistro wrote: »

I'm glad i brightened up your Thursday but this is the way i see it and only time will tell.

Time has "told". You just missed it apparently.

sydthebeat

flangemeistro wrote: »

IMO as far as Ireland is concerned Toner is not a leader or a very inventive second row and really needs a lot of direction, persuasion and delegation, which is all fine and well as long as Paulie is his Partner in crime because there's no better man to give you all of those in one swift blow but when he's not partnered with Paulie he gets found out and he seems lost.

I reckon after this world cup and next year's six nations we will be seeing a lot less of Toner in the green.

3 heineken cups
1 challange cup
2 6 nations
2 celtic leagues


who is going to replace this 'directionless unimaginative' player.......

flangemeistro

.ak wrote: »

Yep. I have a mate, who'd be a casual fan, I meet up with him for Leinster or Ireland games, and whenever he hears Toner is playing he's all 'Ah not that lanky so and so' and before I can correct him he always goes, 'I know, I know! I know he's playing really well lately, but I just hate him. I can't help it, I think he's useless!'.

I find it hilarious, but some people just have it in for him and can't help it.

Ok my prediction is a long way off and a lot of people might not remember it come the South Africa tour next summer so I'll say this,
O'Connell and Toner will not be our starting second Row when we face France in Cardiff.

molloyjh

flangemeistro wrote: »

Ok my prediction is a long way off and a lot of people might not remember it come the South Africa tour next summer so I'll say this,
O'Connell and Toner will not be our starting second Row when we face France in Cardiff.

Why, what's going to happen to Paulie?

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

3 heineken cups
1 challange cup
2 6 nations
2 celtic leagues


who is going to replace this 'directionless unimaginative' player.......

And for Toner it's harder again than most. First off he has the most innocent looking head on him, you wouldn't know he played rugby at all and he stopped ageing facially at around 16.

Secondly, his name is Devon. I mean, he is named after a feckin custard. The guy does not come across as fearsome at all.

Until you try to get a maul passed him.

A lot of the begrudging he gets however are from people who simply want the guy on their team to start ahead of him, and you can't reason with that perspective.

pickarooney

Once Tuiliga was out Burgess was always going to be included. For all their finesse in the backs England need a plan B. I can kind of understand the decision but it's a bit of a hail Mary given the timing.

Happy for Slade, though it leaves them very short of experience should they need to play both of these again.

Ceadog

pickarooney wrote: »

For all their finesse in the backs England need a plan B.

Think you might have gotten their plan A and plan B mixed up there

English Lurker

Burgess has won most fans over. He wasn't as badly exposed in defence as we worried, he wasn't as greedy as we worried, and can definitely worry people in attack. A fantastic 12? No, but nobody England has is. He is also learning very fast and brings a lot of leadership and experience to the team.

The most crucial thing about Burgess is just because he's going to the World Cup doesn't mean he'll be starting any important games. We can still gain the benefits of his character around the squad; we don't have to risk his frailities in big games; and if worse comes to worse, is he worse than Burrell or Twelvetrees? Arguments either way at worst. Internet rumour says Lancaster was favouring Burrell actually, and Farrell and Catt had to argue him into Burgess.

edit: p.s. Plan A is currently give it to Joseph.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

English Lurker wrote: »

Burgess has won most fans over. He wasn't as badly exposed in defence as we worried, he wasn't as greedy as we worried, and can definitely worry people in attack. A fantastic 12? No, but nobody England has is. He is also learning very fast and brings a lot of leadership and experience to the team.

The most crucial thing about Burgess is just because he's going to the World Cup doesn't mean he'll be starting any important games. We can still gain the benefits of his character around the squad; we don't have to risk his frailities in big games; and if worse comes to worse, is he worse than Burrell or Twelvetrees? Arguments either way at worst. Internet rumour says Lancaster was favouring Burrell actually, and Farrell and Catt had to argue him into Burgess.

edit: p.s. Plan A is currently give it to Joseph.

Who is England's first choice 12/13 pairing at the moment.

Also, you're in the unfortunate position of not really having any non important games given the pool you're in.

English Lurker

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Who is England's first choice 12/13 pairing at the moment.

Also, you're in the unfortunate position of not really having any non important games given the pool you're in.

Barritt-Joseph presumably, although it's a wee bit awkward that they've never played together.

And a little. Although kinda fortunate in that we can use Fiji as a final warm-up, go all out for Australia and Wales, rest guys against Uruguay, hopefully not to have to exert ourselves too much for the quarter-final, then all out for the last two... hopefully. There's a lot to be said for tough games to keep yourselves warm.

If Fiji manage to kill Brown, Robshaw and Joseph, I did not write this post.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

English Lurker wrote: »

Barritt-Joseph presumably, although it's a wee bit awkward that they've never played together.

And a little. Although kinda fortunate in that we can use Fiji as a final warm-up, go all out for Australia and Wales, rest guys against Uruguay, hopefully not to have to exert ourselves too much for the quarter-final, then all out for the last two... hopefully. There's a lot to be said for tough games to keep yourselves warm.

If Fiji manage to kill Brown, Robshaw and Joseph, I did not write this post.

I would say England need to get the bonus point against Fiji to set them up for the Wales and Australia games. Not sure I'd treat it a another warm up game. Will be interesting to see how Lancaster approaches it.

English Lurker

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I would say England need to get the bonus point against Fiji to set them up for the Wales and Australia games. Not sure I'd treat it a another warm up game. Will be interesting to see how Lancaster approaches it.

The last time we played Fiji (2012 or so) we stuck 7 tries on them with a not entirely full strength team. I know the PI teams generally kick up a gear come World Cup year when they've actually had time to practice, but its not unreasonable for Lancaster to target it as the final warm-up game and expect a bonus point; after all, the final warm-up game is when it's all meant to come together, right?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

English Lurker wrote: »

The last time we played Fiji (2012 or so) we stuck 7 tries on them with a not entirely full strength team. I know the PI teams generally kick up a gear come World Cup year when they've actually had time to practice, but its not unreasonable for Lancaster to target it as the final warm-up game and expect a bonus point; after all, the final warm-up game is when it's all meant to come together, right?

Well, there's two ways to go here.

1 - Start your strongest 15 and aim to get the bonus point wrapped up as quickly as possible then sub as many people as you can.

2 - Start a "weakened" team and hope they get the job done. Have your big guns ready to go on the bench in case the first 15 can't get the job done.

Both have risks, I suppose.

The Pheasant2

English Lurker, just as a matter of interest what's your opinion of the squad as a whole? Happy enough or would you have chosen differently?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Rumours on twitter that JDV is going to be named captain of the Springboks side due to be named tomorrow.

I'm a bit surprised if this is true. I expected him to make the squad but I didn't expect him to be a starter. Would you name someone captain if they weren't likely to be in your first choice starting 15?

Ceadog

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Rumours on twitter that JDV is going to be named captain of the Springboks side due to be named tomorrow.

I'm a bit surprised if this is true. I expected him to make the squad but I didn't expect him to be a starter. Would you name someone captain if they weren't likely to be in your first choice starting 15?

Just like Johnson named Borthwick his captain when he was probably the fifth best lock available

Simple explanation is that Meyer is a bad coach.

English Lurker

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

English Lurker, just as a matter of interest what's your opinion of the squad as a whole? Happy enough or would you have chosen differently?

I could write a dissertation on everything I'd have done differently but, ultimately, I'm happy enough. It's about the strongest available; basically our 6N team with a few improvements.

Tbh, more I think about it, more I don't see the point of caring too much about squads, because mostly its arguing about who should play Uruguay. I mean, cool story right? Obviously injuries happen and what's not, but it's all really about who's in the 23 and execution.

I'd have liked Attwood and Cipriani as an option for the 23, and I'd like to know anyone but Alex Goode was going to be in the 23, but that's it really. I'm probably going to agree with the 23 bar backs subs, so... yeah, happy enough.

English Lurker

English Lurker wrote: »

I could write a dissertation on everything I'd have done differently

Yeah, I'd be interested in this all the same so go ahead so.

Pudsy33

Anyone interested in a super bru predictor league for the RWC?

thomond2006

Springbok World Cup squad:

Forwards:

Hookers: Schalk Brits, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss
Props: Jannie du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Coenie Oosthuizen
Locks: Lood de Jager, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield (vc)
Loose forwards: Willem Alberts, Schalk Burger, Siya Kolisi, Francois Louw, Duane Vermeulen

Backs:

Scrum-halves: Fourie du Preez, Rudy Paige, Ruan Pienaar
Fly-halves: Pat Lambie, Handrè Pollard, Morné Steyn
Centres: Jean de Villiers, Damian de Allende, Jesse Kriel
Outside backs: Bryan Habana, Zane Kirchner, Willie le Roux, Lwazi Mvovo, JP Pietersen

The Pheasant2

thomond2006 wrote: »

Springbok World Cup squad:

Forwards:

Hookers: Schalk Brits, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss
Props: Jannie du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Coenie Oosthuizen
Locks: Lood de Jager, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield (vc)
Loose forwards: Willem Alberts, Schalk Burger, Siya Kolisi, Francois Louw, Duane Vermeulen

Backs:

Scrum-halves: Fourie du Preez, Rudy Paige, Ruan Pienaar
Fly-halves: Pat Lambie, Handrè Pollard, Morné Steyn
Centres: Jean de Villiers, Damian de Allende, Jesse Kriel
Outside backs: Bryan Habana, Zane Kirchner, Willie le Roux, Lwazi Mvovo, JP Pietersen

Coetzee is injured yeah?
Is Reinach injured too?

Ceadog

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Coetzee is injured yeah?
Is Reinach injured too?

I think Reinach was dropped. Fit as far as I know.

total former

When did Fourie du Preez last play at any sort of competitive level?

marc96

Ceadog wrote: »

I think Reinach was dropped. Fit as far as I know.

Dropped for a quota player!

Ceadog

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Coetzee is injured yeah?
Is Reinach injured too?

Looks like Coetzee just didn't get picked.

Meyer is the new St. Andre.

Ceadog

total former wrote: »

When did Fourie du Preez last play at any sort of competitive level?

I thought he retired after the last WC!

Yeah_Right

Ceadog wrote: »

I thought he retired after the last WC!

Went to Japan for the pay day and has been dogged by injuries as well I think. It's a shame because he was a fantastic player but has never recaptured the form of 2009 when he probably should have been world player of the year.

.ak

What's up with hougard?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Although I'm delighted for JDV that he's recovered to make the squad I still find it odd that he's captain. Is he going to play all the matches, or even start them all? Kriel and de Allende looked really good together during the RC, can't see how JDV fits in there. Which do you drop? Unless they're going to have a captain who is sitting on the bench for most of their important matches.

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Went to Japan for the pay day and has been dogged by injuries as well I think. It's a shame because he was a fantastic player but has never recaptured the form of 2009 when he probably should have been world player of the year.

Ooooohhhh .....controversial on an Irish forum!

Although, I tend to agree, in fairness. Simply phenomenal year from him. He was someone who it didn't matter who played outhalf, he ran the show for a team that won the Tri-Nations (Steyn), RWC (James) and Lions tour (Pienaar) with different outhalves outside him; it didn't matter who played 10, they were just backing up his role as the director.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Romania named their squad yesterday too, if anyone's interested. I guess we should be given we play them. 16 of them are semi pro.

Romania 31-man World Cup squad:

Forwards: Ion Paulita, Mihaita Lazar, Andrei Ursache, Alexandru Tarus, Horatiu Pungea, Andrei Radoi, Otar Turashvili, Eugen Capatana, Valentin Popirlan, Johannes van Heerden, Marius Antonescu, Valentin Ursache, Mihai Macovei, Viorel Lucaci, Stelian Burcea, Ovidiu Tonita, Daniel Carpo.

Backs: Florin Surugiu, Valentin Calafeteanu, Tudorel Bratu, Danut Dumbrava, Michael Wiringi, Paula Kinikinilau, Florin Vlaicu, Csaba Gal, Adrian Apostol, Ionut Botezatu, Florin Ionita, Madalin Lemnaru, Catalin Fercu, Sabin Stratila.

Yeah_Right

Buer wrote: »

Ooooohhhh .....controversial on an Irish forum!

Huh? Why?

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Huh? Why?

There was a robbery in South Dublin at the time.

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Huh? Why?

This country went into meltdown when BOD didn't get it that year after the 6N, HEC and the Lions tour.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a robbery in South Dublin at the time.

Shag off with your south Dublin and get your own!

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

Shag off with your south Dublin and get your own!

Clontarf, Malahide and Howth are part of Northern South Dublin

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Clontarf, Malahide and Howth are part of Northern South Dublin

I always thought you were a bogger?!

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

I always thought you were a bogger?!

Yes, I'm from Kildare and this is how I ensure we keep our place as the 2nd biggest contributor to Leinster rugby.

Buer

Ah, Kildare, home of the Lunster.

Yeah_Right

Buer wrote: »

This country went into meltdown when BOD didn't get it that year after the 6N, HEC and the Lions tour.

Ah. Got it. I vaguely remember that furore. Even though the B&I Lions lost the 2 matches he was in and club games don't count. Richie won it I think? And he was injured the first half of the year (right?).

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Ah. Got it. I vaguely remember that furore. Even though the B&I Lions lost the 2 matches he was in and club games don't count. Richie won it I think? And he was injured the first half of the year (right?).

Bingo. Yeah, it's based only on international games but I don't think people widely knew that at the time and it fed into the outrage. Despite the Lions losses, BOD was bloody good in those games. He led the fightback in the first test and made the first two tries.

Despite McCaw missing the first half of the season, that was only the Super Rugby season. He played in the entire 3N campaign and was bloody good. But in the understated, best player of all time doing his thing, sort of way, rather than eye catching, awe inspiring showings.

FdP is the bloke who should have been outraged, to my mind. He was simply a cut above in all his international tests.

pickarooney

.ak wrote: »

What's up with hougard?

He's absolute ****house?

Yeah_Right

Buer wrote: »

Bingo. Yeah, it's based only on international games but I don't think people widely knew that at the time and it fed into the outrage. Despite the Lions losses, BOD was bloody good in those games. He led the fightback in the first test and made the first two tries.

Despite McCaw missing the first half of the season, that was only the Super Rugby season. He played in the entire 3N campaign and was bloody good. But in the understated, best player of all time doing his thing, sort of way, rather than eye catching, awe inspiring showings.

FdP is the bloke who should have been outraged, to my mind. He was simply a cut above in all his international tests.

Mate. I'm a kiwi and I remember being stunned/surprised/shocked that FdP didn't get it. He owned every game he was in. Ridiculously good.

PTH2009

2007- England done terrible in the six nations and lost there world cup group game vs south africa and still made the final.

2011- France who had a bad six nations and lost 2 world cup group games (new zealand and tonga) and made the final only losing by 1 point. they were probly shocked they made the final.

so really anything can happen in the world cup this year. it could be a scotland vs New Zealand final

Coburger

What possible upsets do you think there could be in the World Cup? e.g. does anyone think that the USA could put one over Scotland or Fiji beat Wales?

Coburger

Coburger wrote: »

What possible upsets do you think there could be in the World Cup? e.g. does anyone think that the USA could put one over Scotland or Fiji beat Wales?

Hmm potential upsets is a good one.

Samoa or USA could topple Scotland.
Italy could topple France or Ireland
Fiji beating any of Wales Australia England
Scotland beating South Africa
Argentina beating the All Blacks

USA v Samoa looks like it could be a good game.

kuang1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hmm potential upsets is a good one.

Samoa or USA could topple Scotland.
Italy could topple France or Ireland
Fiji beating any of Wales Scotland England
Scotland beating South Africa
Argentina beating the All Blacks

USA v Samoa looks like it could be a good game.

Eh....Fiji can only meet Scotland in the quarter finals. That would also mean 2 of England, Wales and Australia don't get through to quarters...
Italy haven't got a 10.
Argentina beating All blacks...have you been to bed yet?!

In fairness I suspect this South Africa team might be one of the weakest in their history with a semi-sane coach. So maybe Scotland for the upset.
USA I know nothing about apart from them dominating the bragging rights over their neighbours, Canada...which ain't saying much.

I think a realistic chance of an upset (is that an oximoron?) lies with Fiji. Not that I think that they will beat any of England, Wales or Australia, but might have a say in who gets bonus points or not.

They may also be responsible for injuring an important player or 2 on their way. (Not maliciously)

sydthebeat

If you were to go by the initial draw and the world rankings at the time, scotland beating samoa would have been an upset.
Scotland were ranked 12th and samoa 7th. Currently Scotland are 10th and samoa are 12th though.
Scotland to beat SA is probably the most likely of the 'BIG' upsets.

Italy shouldn't bother Ireland or France too much as i think they've one of the weakest squads they've ever brought to a wc. So id imagine they'll finish firmly in third position.

Nz and Argentina should come through their group without too much fear.
Fiji holding any one of the bigger three to four points well be their biggest achievement.