RWC 2015 - build-up thread

kuang1

kuang1 wrote: »

Eh....Fiji can only meet Scotland in the quarter finals. That would also mean 2 of England, Wales and Australia don't get through to quarters...
Italy haven't got a 10.
Argentina beating All blacks...have you been to bed yet?!

In fairness I suspect this South Africa team might be one of the weakest in their history with a semi-sane coach. So maybe Scotland for the upset.
USA I know nothing about apart from them dominating the bragging rights over their neighbours, Canada...which ain't saying much.

I think a realistic chance of an upset (is that an oximoron?) lies with Fiji. Not that I think that they will beat any of England, Wales or Australia, but might have a say in who gets bonus points or not.

They may also be responsible for injuring an important player or 2 on their way. (Not maliciously)

Sorry fixed, meant Aus.

As for the rest, not suggesting their likelyhood, just matches where there is at least some potential of an upset. Argentina are a different team in the WC and won't role over for NZ. I massively presume NZ will win but it's not impossible either.

Bit of fun for a Saturday morning in anycase.

kuang1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry fixed, meant Aus.

As for the rest, not suggesting their likelyhood, just matches where there is at least some potential of an upset. Argentina are a different team in the WC and won't role over for NZ. I massively presume NZ will win but it's not impossible either.

Bit of fun for a Saturday morning in anycase.

Or perhaps England not qualifying from their group...would that be an upset?!
Not a huge one afaic!!!

kuang1

kuang1 wrote: »

Or perhaps England not qualifying from their group...would that be an upset?!
Not a huge one afaic!!!

If England failed to get out of their pool it would get more coverage than the eventual winners. It would be the talking point of the tournament until Ireland beat NZ in the final.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

England not coming out of their pool wouldn't be a huge surprise to me. One of the best teams in the world isn't going to come out of that pool, it's just a question of who. If it's England everyone will act like it's a massive surprise simply because they're the hosts.

Based on the squads and recent performances it's extremely hard to call. We haven't seen Wales properly since the 6 Nations, England weren't great in either of their matches with France, particularly the 2nd one. Australia didn't look all that impressive during the RC despite winning it. Last minute winner against South Africa, fine against Argentina, they did manage to beat NZ thanks mostly to their forwards and then were soundly thumped the following week. They've got massive problems with their 9/10 combination and with their goal kicking too. England don't appear to have any established partnerships in their backs either. Presuming all the Welsh lads get through the last warm ups I'd almost pick Wales to definitely come out, between England and Australia for the other place?

irishbucsfan

kuang1 wrote: »

I think a realistic chance of an upset (is that an oximoron?) lies with Fiji. Not that I think that they will beat any of England, Wales or Australia, but might have a say in who gets bonus points or not.

They may also be responsible for injuring an important player or 2 on their way. (Not maliciously)

Fiji have been pretty poor in recent years, not least due to the situation in their country of course. I'd be very surprised if they do anything of note.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Fiji have been pretty poor in recent years, not least due to the situation in their country of course. I'd be very surprised if they do anything of note.

Preventing bonus points might be the best we can expect from them.

Witheringeye

One potential upset would be Italy beating France. Which could cost Ireland if we failed to defeat the French

total former

Barbarians team to play Samoa today:

15 Paul Williams (Stade Francais & Samoa)
14 Taqele Naiyaravoro (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Ben Tapuai (Western Force & Australia)
12 Wynand Olivier (Montpellier & South Africa)
11 Dwayne Sweeney (Munakata Sanix Blues)
10 Christian Leali’ifano (Brumbies & Australia)
9 Luke Burgess (Zebre & Australia)
1 Benn Robinson (Waratahs & Australia)
2 Saia Fainga’a (Queensland Reds & Australia)
3 Carl Hayman (New Zealand)
4 Bakkies Botha (South Africa, Captain)
5 Luke Jones (Melbourne Rebels)
6 Adam Thomson (Queensland Reds & New Zealand)
7 Liam Gill (Queensland Reds & Australia)
8 Pierre Spies (Blue Bulls & South Africa)
Replacements (from):
16 Tolu Latu (Waratahs)
17 Joshua Hohneck (Highlanders)
18 TBA
19 Ali Williams (New Zealand)
20 Jacques Potgieter (Munakata Sanix Blues & South Africa)
21 Nic Groom (Stormers)
22 Mike Harris (Melbourne Rebels & Australia)
23 Tom English (Melbourne Rebels)

That's a decent team all things considered. Live on ITV4.

irishbucsfan

What time is that game at?

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What time is that game at?

3.15 so not ideal

lbj666

Witheringeye wrote: »

One potential upset would be Italy beating France. Which could cost Ireland if we failed to defeat the French

Still possible to win the group if ireland beat italy lost to france and france lost to italy.

I was thinking, could you imagine if the Argies upset the all blacks in their group:D

sydthebeat

total former wrote: »

3.15 so not ideal

On tv?

English Lurker

Something involving Scotland is the most likely upset to me. Either Samoa, who as noted are definitely capable of being a much better team than the Scots, or the Scots beating South Africa, who seem quite erratic and uncomfortable away from home. Would definitely throw a cat among the pigeons that.

CatFromHue

I'd say there's a possibility of Samoa beating SA.

It'll be a grudge match after what happened in RWC11 with Brussow taking a dive to get one of their lads sent off.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Scotland pretty soundly disposed of Italy this afternoon. 48-7 was the final score. Samoa lost 27-24 to the BaaBaas.

Ceadog

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Fiji have been pretty poor in recent years, not least due to the situation in their country of course. I'd be very surprised if they do anything of note.

They just won the Pacific Nations Cup for the third time in a row and they've managed to get a lot of their best players released for the WC so they could be pretty decent.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Scotland pretty soundly disposed of Italy this afternoon. 48-7 was the final score. Samoa lost 27-24 to the BaaBaas.

Italy were an absolute shambles. Samoa did well considering they had a lad red carded after 20 minutes!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Ceadog wrote: »

Italy were an absolute shambles. Samoa did well considering they had a lad red carded after 20 minutes!

Hard to tell anything from a BaaBaas match, it's so open and free flowing but Samoa can definitely tackle, that's for sure.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Hard to tell anything from a BaaBaas match, it's so open and free flowing but Samoa can definitely tackle, that's for sure.

watching it on itv4 now. its a poor warm up game for samoa to arrange because the WC games will be far less open.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Canada beat Glasgow today in a warm up match, 19-12. Didn't get a look at the sides but I assume Glasgow are missing a fair few players due to WC.

The Lost Sheep

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Canada beat Glasgow today in a warm up match, 19-12. Didn't get a look at the sides but I assume Glasgow are missing a fair few players due to WC.

sides were
http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/15/08/29/warriors-slip-canada-defeat
Glasgow missing a good few but still had a fair number of senior guys

A2LUE42

Ceadog wrote: »

They just won the Pacific Nations Cup for the third time in a row and they've managed to get a lot of their best players released for the WC so they could be pretty decent.



Italy were an absolute shambles. Samoa did well considering they had a lad red carded after 20 minutes!

Red card in a Baa Baas match, that's a strange one in itself.

pickarooney

Hate to be that guy but for a Samoan... not that strange.

duckysauce

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'd say there's a possibility of Samoa beating SA.

It'll be a grudge match after what happened in RWC11 with Brussow taking a dive to get one of their lads sent off.

it was Owens that shafted Samoa in that match -- nuts a welsh Ref was in that group and he was shocking that day

aimee1

NZ leave dagg and jane out of their squad. Was named this morning

Buer

And he of the broken leg is included. Dagg, Piutau and Jane all left at home. They bring 3 out and out wingers in Savea, Naholo and NMS. Pretty callow there. 4 specialist centres is a bit much when you've got Carter and Slade (who I assume will cover wing and full back also).

Backs: Ben Smith, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo, Julian Savea, Conrad Smith, Malakai Fekitoa, Ma’a Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams, Dan Carter, Beauden Barrett, Colin Slade, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Tawera Kerr-Barlow

Forwards: Kieran Read, Victor Vito, Richie McCaw (captain), Sam Cane, Jerome Kaino, Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Charlie Faumuina, Tony Woodcock, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Franks, Dane Coles, Keven Mealamu, Codie Taylor

smiley_face

Buer wrote: »

And he of the broken leg is included. Dagg, Piutau and Jane all left at home. They bring 3 out and out wingers in Savea, Naholo and NMS. Pretty callow there. 4 specialist centres is a bit much when you've got Carter and Slade (who I assume will cover wing and full back also).

Backs: Ben Smith, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo, Julian Savea, Conrad Smith, Malakai Fekitoa, Ma’a Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams, Dan Carter, Beauden Barrett, Colin Slade, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Tawera Kerr-Barlow

Forwards: Kieran Read, Victor Vito, Richie McCaw (captain), Sam Cane, Jerome Kaino, Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Charlie Faumuina, Tony Woodcock, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Franks, Dane Coles, Keven Mealamu, Codie Taylor

Beauden Barrett and Nehe Milner-Skudder are both as good at full back as they are at Out Half and Wing respectively.
I would say there are no surprises at all in that squad, picked itself once Naholo was fit.
The only player I would think of is Ardie Savea, but he's so young that's probably the only reason he wasn't picked. He looks phenomenal though for the future.
Interesting they went with 3 Locks and 6 back rows, but they have the 2 best locks in the world so they wouldn't need much rotation in the big matches.

philstar

Jeepers, when you think about it England are in one very tough group (and i always thought the host nation got a cushy draw)

There's the strong possibility that they could be knocked out in the group stages??

what do you think.....

Zzippy

Will Piutau be joining Ulster early then? Suits Ulster, and he's only a short hop away should NZ need to call him up... could really boost Ulster for their games during the WC.

Edit: nevermind, I see he's only joining them next year

Buer

Zzippy wrote:

Will Piutau be joining Ulster early then? Suits Ulster, and he's only a short hop away should NZ need to call him up... could really boost Ulster for their games during the WC.

His contract doesn't start for another year.

Still convinced it was mental signing!

Wang King

Buer wrote: »

His contract doesn't start for another year.

Still convinced it was mental signing!

Yeah, it makes no sense realistically. Ulster are tied into a player whi can't play for 18 months after signing? Heaven help them if he picks up a serious injury

aimee1

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/30/south-africa-barred-world-cup-court-action-agency-new-agenda-party-rugby-union?CMP=share_btn_tw

Zuffer

Looks like NZ went with:

5 props, 3 hooker, 3 second row, 6 back row
3 scrum half, 3 outhalf, 4 centre, 4 outside back

17/14 split. Their reserve outhalfs can cover wing and fullback.

aimee1

aimee1 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/30/south-africa-barred-world-cup-court-action-agency-new-agenda-party-rugby-union?CMP=share_btn_tw

I guarantee SA will be st the WC. This is politics and posturing, won't stop the team travelling.

thomond2006

aimee1 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/30/south-africa-barred-world-cup-court-action-agency-new-agenda-party-rugby-union?CMP=share_btn_tw

Pathetic carry-on.

andymx11

thomond2006 wrote: »

Pathetic carry-on.

Did they not meet the minimum requirements though?

It's still the most embarrasing thing I heard. Ever..

duckysauce

aj mcginty is having a great game at the mo for USA v harlequins

11-0 usa

duckysauce

Ha Quinns beat them by 5 points-- that's nuts full USA team out

Jacovs

Idk if its been mentioned somewhere, but interesting to see:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Unwanted-Bok-XV-v-Unwanted-All-Blacks-XV-20150831

Its also very surprising Marcel Coetzee didnt make even the 2nd team. Shouldve been in the first team.

aimee1

Wales have gone with 5 props, 2 hookers, 5 2nd rows and 5 back rowers

Its on the BBC website just now

thevinylword

duckysauce wrote: »

Ha Quinns beat them by 5 points-- that's nuts full USA team out

Wow!

Flipper22

aimee1 wrote: »

Wales have gone with 5 props, 2 hookers, 5 2nd rows and 5 back rowers

Its on the BBC website just now

Strange decision to take both Ball and Day in the second row but only two hookers and looseheads.

It's a bit of a risk to take Liam Williams too, if he doesn't recover in time they may have to play Cuthbert against England which would not be ideal imo...

desertcircus

thomond2006 wrote: »

Pathetic carry-on.

I don't blame them, to be honest. The South African population is 9% white, yet the World Cup squad is 70% white. A randomly selected white South African is about ten times more likely to be a Springbok than a non-white South African, and that's after two decades of efforts to improve representation. If England meet South Africa during the World Cup, there's a decent chance the English XV will have more non-white faces than the national side of a 9% white country. That's a ludicrous state of affairs, and maybe stuff like this is the only way the SARU will ever be made to deal with the situation.

Pudsy33

desertcircus wrote: »

I don't blame them, to be honest. The South African population is 9% white, yet the World Cup squad is 70% white. A randomly selected white South African is about ten times more likely to be a Springbok than a non-white South African, and that's after two decades of efforts to improve representation. If England meet South Africa during the World Cup, there's a decent chance the English XV will have more non-white faces than the national side of a 9% white country. That's a ludicrous state of affairs, and maybe stuff like this is the only way the SARU will ever be made to deal with the situation.

Maybe, just maybe, the squad has been selected based on the quality of the players and not based on the color of anyones skin?

Moflojo

aimee1 wrote: »

Wales have gone with 5 props, 2 hookers, 5 2nd rows and 5 back rowers

Its on the BBC website just now

The Wales squad looks a bit sparse outside of their first 15, especially in the backs (Priestland & Liam Williams the only proven test level reserves). Their group is going to be fairly attritional and I'd expect them to struggle badly if they lose one or two of their key players - Biggar, Roberts, AW Jones, Halfpenny.

RoutineBites

Wales squad announced . . .

Props: Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Paul James (Ospreys), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Samson Lee (Scarlets).
Hookers: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Ken Owens (Scarlets).
Locks: Jake Ball (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing 92), Dominic Day (Bath), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys).
Back-rows: Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt).
Scrum-halves: Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues).
Fly-halves: Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Matthew Morgan (Bristol), Rhys Priestland (Bath).
Centres: Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), Scott Williams (Scarlets).
Wings: Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints).
Full-backs: Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/34103358

sydthebeat

once you get past their first 15, that wales team is shallow in strength.

interesting to see if they can get over their Australia hoodoo

Pretty harsh call against USA at 38 mins in this?

https://streamable.com/valu

thomond2006

desertcircus wrote: »

I don't blame them, to be honest. The South African population is 9% white, yet the World Cup squad is 70% white. A randomly selected white South African is about ten times more likely to be a Springbok than a non-white South African, and that's after two decades of efforts to improve representation. If England meet South Africa during the World Cup, there's a decent chance the English XV will have more non-white faces than the national side of a 9% white country. That's a ludicrous state of affairs, and maybe stuff like this is the only way the SARU will ever be made to deal with the situation.

Positive discrimination isn't the way to deal with it. IMO it only furthers segregation. By all means invest time and money into developing the game among non-white communities but don't impose a quota. What about the non-white players who would get selected anyway? Doesn't something like this demean their selection by merit? This copperfastens the fact that skin colour matters when it shouldn't.

It's only political posturing anyway. The rugby is only a sideshow and the timing of this is no coincidence.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty harsh call against USA at 38 mins in this?

https://streamable.com/valu

nah, i can see why it was judged knocked on, he lost it forward

jacothelad

Buer wrote: »

His contract doesn't start for another year.

Still convinced it was mental signing!

In what way? He is a great addition to the team. If you had said we would have done better signing a high quality back row player I would agree. However, nothing mental about signing a 23 ? y.o current All Black. If you had a choice between Ludik or Peter nelson or Ch. Piatau, you would choose Nelson? Really Now that would be mental.

Wang King wrote: »

Yeah, it makes no sense realistically. Ulster are tied into a player who can't play for 18 months after signing? Heaven help them if he picks up a serious injury

Ulster aren't tied to a player if he gets injured. His signing is for next season - i.e. 16 /17. If he picks up a serious injury then Ulster will sign someone else. They actually don't pay him until he arrives, fit and capabl;e of playing. What is the problem? Tell me how the signing of Tyler Bleyendal panned out.

desertcircus wrote: »

I don't blame them, to be honest. The South African population is 9% white, yet the World Cup squad is 70% white. A randomly selected white South African is about ten times more likely to be a Springbok than a non-white South African, and that's after two decades of efforts to improve representation. If England meet South Africa during the World Cup, there's a decent chance the English XV will have more non-white faces than the national side of a 9% white country.

Sorry but this is wrong. Players should be selected on ability not the amount of melanin secreted in their skin. Who are the 'black' or 'coloured' players who are being omitted because of the colour of their skin and ignored because of this while they are more capable than, say Ruan Pienaar or Eben Etzebeth?

"That's a ludicrous state of affairs, and maybe stuff like this is the only way the SARU will ever be made to deal with the situation."

What situation are you talking about? You seem to suggest that the SA team should be 9% White instead of 100% capable. The vast majority of non-white South Africans are soccer supporters and players, not rugby players. There are genetic differences in some positions that mean that more white guys are physically huge compared to the more slender Africans. Just like Pacific Islanders have a genetic advantage over Europeans. The best players are being selected, not the most politically correct. If it was not the case and less able players are included simply because of their skin then S.A. really should be excluded. You can't judge a population or a sport simply by looking at the percentages of the ethnic make-up of the country.