RWC 2015 - build-up thread

irishbucsfan · 04-08-2015 9:49pm

Wales only have themselves to blame for playing that game outside the international window and dropping down in the seedings!

The game was against Australia wasn't it? So one of them is going to regret it at least I'd imagine (unless England fail to make it out of the group stages at their own World Cup!)

molloyjh · 04-08-2015 11:57pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Wales only have themselves to blame for playing that game outside the international window and dropping down in the seedings!

The game was against Australia wasn't it? So one of them is going to regret it at least I'd imagine (unless England fail to make it out of the group stages at their own World Cup!)

I could see Wales failing to make it personally. They've struggled against SH opposition generally and didn't they only just about manage to beat Fiji in MS in the last AIs?

irishbucsfan · 05-08-2015 2:18am

molloyjh wrote: »

I could see Wales failing to make it personally. They've struggled against SH opposition generally and didn't they only just about manage to beat Fiji in MS in the last AIs?

Yes but they have a hell of a coach who seems to consistently get them to peak at the right times (as we've found out so many times).

We could quite easily see a situation where Australia beat Wales, Wales beat England and England beat Australia!

pickarooney · 05-08-2015 6:21am

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

In other Pacific Nations Cup news, Canada are beyond terrible. Wonder what kind of team we'll go with there? A B team would beat them handily but should we start the A team and ring the changes in 2nd half or start the B team and have some A players in reserv on the bench just in case?

Do we want to risk another Georgia ?

irishbucsfan · 05-08-2015 6:33am

pickarooney wrote: »

Do we want to risk another Georgia ?

Do you mean risk another Georgia by starting the A team?

05-08-2015 8:14am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do you mean risk another Georgia by starting the A team?

We really only had an A team at the time

molloyjh · 05-08-2015 9:05am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes but they have a hell of a coach who seems to consistently get them to peak at the right times (as we've found out so many times).

We could quite easily see a situation where Australia beat Wales, Wales beat England and England beat Australia!

True. You'd have to look at the team with the most depth and how they may fare against Fiji and Uruguay because they can't afford to play a full strength side in 4 pool games. And it's hard to know which of those 3 has the depth to make a difference. England maybe?

The single biggest issue Oz had against the Lions was a lack of depth and Gatland for all his positives tends to have his list of favourites and few others get a look in. It's such a tough pool to call and Fiji could very easily have a deciding say in who gets out every bit as much as the the big 3 in the pool. Should make for fascinating viewing.

05-08-2015 9:51am

molloyjh wrote: »

True. You'd have to look at the team with the most depth and how they may fare against Fiji and Uruguay because they can't afford to play a full strength side in 4 pool games. And it's hard to know which of those 3 has the depth to make a difference. England maybe?

The single biggest issue Oz had against the Lions was a lack of depth and Gatland for all his positives tends to have his list of favourites and few others get a look in. It's such a tough pool to call and Fiji could very easily have a deciding say in who gets out every bit as much as the the big 3 in the pool. Should make for fascinating viewing.

Yup - this is going to be the issue for Australia and Wales and it may come down to who weathers the warm ups and pools that bit better. I would go so far as to say that Wales are almost at crisis point in some positions and if neither North nor Williams get back fit in time they are in serious trouble in the backs and not fairing that much better in the forwards with massive reliance on 2 - 3 players.

I don't know as much about Australia's back up options but they are recalling Kane Douglas who wouldn't be within an arses roar of the Irish team so maybe that is telling. They've potentially lost Genia and Cooper seems to be as daft as ever so they could have real instability at the half backs.

England despite the fact that they have a young and in places mediocre squad, have plenty of depth to rely upon and if the group comes down to points I feel this will give them an edge.

Such an exciting pool and having the host nation in there makes it even better.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 05-08-2015 10:11am

Australia's problem will be with their place kicking. It doesn't matter so much in their Rugby Championship games because they tend to score tries but playing two of the best Northern Hemisphere teams, who will both have home support, could be the kind of games where it comes down to 2 or 3 points and the way Australia are kicking they'll lose both those matches.

homecouldbhere · 05-08-2015 11:48am

molloyjh wrote: »

True. You'd have to look at the team with the most depth and how they may fare against Fiji and Uruguay because they can't afford to play a full strength side in 4 pool games. And it's hard to know which of those 3 has the depth to make a difference. England maybe?

The single biggest issue Oz had against the Lions was a lack of depth and Gatland for all his positives tends to have his list of favourites and few others get a look in. It's such a tough pool to call and Fiji could very easily have a deciding say in who gets out every bit as much as the the big 3 in the pool. Should make for fascinating viewing.

This group will cause a very high attrition rate for all 5 teams. So whereas a few months back I thought Australia were a bit of a value each-way bet for the tournament, I don't any more. Regardless of who comes out of this group, I feel they're gonna be too battered and bruised to make it all the way, or even past the semis.

05-08-2015 11:53am

homecouldbhere wrote: »

This group will cause a very high attrition rate for all 5 teams. So whereas a few months back I thought Australia were a bit of a value each-way bet for the tournament, I don't any more. Regardless of who comes out of this group, I feel they're gonna be too battered and bruised to make it all the way, or even past the semis.

Or battle hardened.

Leinster always seemed to benefit from tough groups at the knock out stages of the Heineken Cup, albeit I appreciate the differing time lines.

The Lost Sheep · 05-08-2015 12:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or battle hardened.

Leinster always seemed to benefit from tough groups at the knock out stages of the Heineken Cup, albeit I appreciate the differing time lines.

Totally different though, as you say yourself. H Cup played over 6+ months. Group stages played over 4 months with breaks. World cup is Canada, Romania then 5 very high intensity tests in a row. No break.

homecouldbhere · 05-08-2015 12:08pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Totally different though, as you say yourself. H Cup played over 6+ months. Group stages played over 4 months with breaks. World cup is Canada, Romania then 5 very high intensity tests in a row. No break.

I agree with your point, but I think we potentially have the easiest run to a semi of all the teams in the tournament. (Assuming we top our group)
I was referring to pool A; to qualify top of that group is gonna be some feat. But I can't see that happening without the winner's injury list being sizable.
(And as was pointed out earlier, the winner of that group may not necessarily have won all 4 pool matches.)

Btw is the bonus point system in operation for the WC? I assume no?

exiledelbows · 05-08-2015 12:27pm

homecouldbhere wrote: »

Btw is the bonus point system in operation for the WC? I assume no?

It is. Could make Pool A very interesting.

Podge_irl · 05-08-2015 12:36pm

exiledelbows wrote: »

It is. Could make Pool A very interesting.

Finalists France only qualified for the quarter finals ahead of Tonga because of bonus points last time round.

kuang1 · 05-08-2015 12:53pm

Jaysus that's right...

Well not that it was needed but that's tweaked my interest even more...how long to go??!!!

Tick tock.

homecouldbhere · 05-08-2015 1:47pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Finalists France only qualified for the quarter finals ahead of Tonga because of bonus points last time round.

How did I forget that...:o

05-08-2015 2:15pm

homecouldbhere wrote: »

How did I forget that...:o

I really hope that France shows up this year, because we will top the group and then they will knock out New Zealand for everyone!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 05-08-2015 2:31pm

I thought about having a bet on France. 20-1 seems a fair price seeing as they're equally as likely to win it all as they are to lose to Italy and not make it out of the pool.

penybont exile · 05-08-2015 5:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I really hope that France shows up this year, because we will top the group and then they will knock out New Zealand for everyone!

Can't see Ireland beating France ..... looking back on how this season's game panned out in the 6N. [Second half]

It'll be an Ireland / NZ quarter final ...... and Ireland will have to break new ground to progress.

Fireball07 · 05-08-2015 6:02pm

I personally can't see a good France turning up.

Look what England did to them. It was an entertaining game and everything, but England hammered them really.

stephen_n · 05-08-2015 6:09pm

Be interesting to see how the French warm up games go, see if they are any closer to playing like a team. I would favour us to beat the French on form but it will be a close match.

05-08-2015 6:22pm

penybont exile wrote: »

Can't see Ireland beating France ..... looking back on how this season's game panned out in the 6N. [Second half]

It'll be an Ireland / NZ quarter final ...... and Ireland will have to break new ground to progress.

Yeah it's hard to see how Ireland could beat France having not lost to them since the warm up games in 2011 and beating them the last two times we played them. I just can't see it. Hope we can come up with something against the All Blacks.

Seriously though, I'm not confident of beating them - but there is no reason why we couldn't and it wouldn't surprise me if on the day we were favourites.

Flipper22 · 05-08-2015 7:03pm

penybont exile wrote: »

Can't see Ireland beating France ..... looking back on how this season's game panned out in the 6N. [Second half]

It'll be an Ireland / NZ quarter final ...... and Ireland will have to break new ground to progress.

Can't see us beating France? Really? Strange comment. France have shown nothing over the last couple of seasons and haven't beaten us in years. Of course, they may do, I could see how they might (:p) but we're definite favourites to top the group.

penybont exile · 05-08-2015 7:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it's hard to see how Ireland could beat France having not lost to them since the warm up games in 2011 and beating them the last two times we played them. I just can't see it. Hope we can come up with something against the All Blacks.

Seriously though, I'm not confident of beating them - but there is no reason why we couldn't and it wouldn't surprise me if on the day we were favourites.

Obviously Ireland are perfectly capable of beating them ...... but I have a sneaky feeling that it won't happen. IMO recent results don't really matter with such evenly matched sides.

Also I don't agree with previous poster's opinion that France won't turn up. They will and they will be very direct against Ireland which may be difficult to counter.

AbusesToilets · 05-08-2015 8:42pm

It would be perfectly French for them to rock up and give us a pasting. They certainly have the form for it. We've yet to see how well this Ireland team can do fighting back from behind. The Welsh game exposed some of that.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.

Podge_irl · 05-08-2015 8:52pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously though, I'm not confident of beating them - but there is no reason why we couldn't and it wouldn't surprise me if on the day we were favourites.

It would phenomenally surprise me if we weren't.

total former · 05-08-2015 8:57pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

It would phenomenally surprise me if we weren't.

We're heavy favourites to top the group, which is essentially the same thing.

Agent J · 05-08-2015 9:18pm

I have a dream.....

Twickenham Stadium 31st Oct 2015.
RWC Final:Ireland vs New Zealand.
After a tense close game... Ireland score in the last minute to beat New Zealand for the 1st time and win the RWC.

thomond2006 · 05-08-2015 9:27pm

Agent J wrote: »

I have a dream.....

Twickenham Stadium 31st Oct 2015.
RWC Final:Ireland vs New Zealand.
After a tense close game... John Hayes scores in the last minute to beat New Zealand for the 1st time and win the RWC.

Completely agree, yeah.

05-08-2015 10:14pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Completely agree, yeah.

Except in your version of the dream Ireland's third best prop of the professional era, John Hayes, comes thundering off the bench to score the match winning try running the ball from outside the NZ 22, side stepping Ma'a-Nonu, fends McCaw and just steam-rolls over Carter as if he was ROG and Swan Dives over the line making the shape of a giant M with his arms as he touches the ball down.

05-08-2015 10:15pm

Agent J wrote: »

I have a dream.....

Twickenham Stadium 31st Oct 2015.
RWC Final:Ireland vs New Zealand.
After a tense close game... John Hayes score in the last minute to beat New Zealand for the 1st time and win the RWC.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Completely agree, yeah.

FECK

Hadn't read your edit. Ah I'll leave it stand.

molloyjh · 05-08-2015 11:24pm

penybont exile wrote: »

Obviously Ireland are perfectly capable of beating them ...... but I have a sneaky feeling that it won't happen. IMO recent results don't really matter with such evenly matched sides.

Also I don't agree with previous poster's opinion that France won't turn up. They will and they will be very direct against Ireland which may be difficult to counter.

France will have more time together than they've ever had before so will almost certainly be a more difficult prospect during the RWC. But you simply can't write off the fact that they haven't beaten us in 4 years, 2 of which were as poor as we've been for a long time. We've proven to be a very hard team to beat and I'd back us to win it, but only just. I can see it being a very tense affair.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 05-08-2015 11:29pm

France also tend to get better as a tournament goes on. Look at their Six Nations this year. Okay they lost to England but they played so much better than they did against us or Wales.

molloyjh · 05-08-2015 11:36pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

France also tend to get better as a tournament goes on. Look at their Six Nations this year. Okay they lost to England but they played so much better than they did against us or Wales.

From an attacking point of view yes, but then that had as much to do with how open England made it in their chase for points. Defensively they were muck on that last day. They still have issues with their coach and his selections though.

.ak · 06-08-2015 7:59am

I wouldn't put it past one of the minnows beating France tbh.

Naturally they'll play their best against us though.

molloyjh · 06-08-2015 8:52am

.ak wrote: »

I wouldn't put it past one of the minnows beating France tbh.

Come on Italy!

06-08-2015 9:24am

Interestingly - I wonder who NZ would rather face. For some reason I reckon they would still prefer us!

pickarooney · 06-08-2015 9:30am

Yeah, I doubt they pay much attention to the 6N (and if they do they won't see much to scare them) so it'll be the team that has never ever beaten them or the one that always seems to pull a huge game out of the bag when playing NZ for high stakes.

06-08-2015 9:35am

pickarooney wrote: »

Yeah, I doubt they pay much attention to the 6N (and if they do they won't see much to scare them)

Well given their coach was commenting on the play style of NH teams during the 6N so I doubt they are completely ignoring it either.

pickarooney wrote: »

so it'll be the team that has never ever beaten them or the one that always seems to pull a huge game out of the bag when playing NZ for high stakes.

That's head / heart stuff though. It's hard to ignore the quality of the French but that doesn't mean we should ignore their results the last few years and I doubt the NZ team would either.

b.gud · 06-08-2015 10:00am

pickarooney wrote: »

Yeah, I doubt they pay much attention to the 6N (and if they do they won't see much to scare them) so it'll be the team that has never ever beaten them or the one that always seems to pull a huge game out of the bag when playing NZ for high stakes.

http://www.allblacks.com/News/26797/nine-things-the-all-blacks-might-have-noticed-about-the-six-nations At least one person involved with the allblacks is keeping an eye on the 6N

sydthebeat · 06-08-2015 10:27am

molloyjh wrote: »

From an attacking point of view yes, but then that had as much to do with how open England made it in their chase for points. Defensively they were muck on that last day. They still have issues with their coach and his selections though.

agreed.... they have a dead duck as coach who, for all intents and purposes has lost the dressing room.

.ak · 06-08-2015 10:29am

sydthebeat wrote: »

agreed.... they have a dead duck as coach who, for all intents and purposes has lost the dressing room.

Well, we might see the classic 'player lead France coup' again in this RWC.

The Pheasant2 · 06-08-2015 10:31am

.ak wrote: »

Well, we might see the classic 'player lead France coup' again in this RWC.

Vive la révolution!

sydthebeat · 06-08-2015 10:52am

.ak wrote: »

Well, we might see the classic 'player lead France coup' again in this RWC.

im not sure they have the natural leaders they had in 2011.

Yeah_Right · 06-08-2015 11:07am

Deleted User wrote: »

Interestingly - I wonder who NZ would rather face. For some reason I reckon they would still prefer us!

Thats an interesting question. Based on history, the ABs would rather face Ireland. If you looked at recent/current form, they would rather play France.

Personally I would like the ABs to face France in the quarters. That we get vengeance for 2007 and then get to beat Ireland in the final:D

molloyjh · 06-08-2015 12:22pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

im not sure they have the natural leaders they had in 2011.

Yeah all I can think of here is Pape going mental at Thomas (?) for not catching his forward pass on Thomas debut.

sydthebeat · 06-08-2015 12:35pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah all I can think of here is Pape going mental at Thomas (?) for not catching his forward pass on Thomas debut.

parra and trinh duc would be, but they probably wont be on the field.
Dusautoir is probably the only one with the leadership that will be playing that could do something.

RoutineBites · 06-08-2015 3:11pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

parra and trinh duc would be, but they probably wont be on the field.

It's a complete and utter joke at this stage that they won't be. Even when Lièvremont was in charge the two of them saved France many a time. I could possibly accept someone being someone being preferred to Parra, not that I'd advise it, but Trinh-Duc not being in the first XV is just insane given how far ahead he is of France's other options at 10.

The Lost Sheep · 06-08-2015 6:50pm

Canada have cut their squad to 35
http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsletter.cfm?clientID=3817&leagueID=0&page=89428
They play USA and Glasgow in Canada on August 22nd/29th before they cut the squad to 31 on August 31st
They will then face Georgia on September 2nd and Fiji on September 6th, both games taking place in England.

RWC 2015 - build-up thread

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