Dargle Angling Club Vandalism to the Dargle River

Thargor

Is anyone a member of this club here? I was out on my bike on a lovely evening yesterday and I made my way down to see this gorge near Enniskerry:

http://wicklowcountywalks.com/walksbetweentworivers.html

Ignoring the ridiculous "Dargle Angling Club Members Only" sign nailed to what was clearly a public right of way I came across a big ugly metal fence with an electronic keypad and cctv and a bolted gate plonked down in the bushes on an otherwise pleasant woodland track. It was all a bit pointless security-wise as you could just duck through the bushes off to the side and head down the path yourself.

Down at the bottom it was pretty horrific to see the damage this crowd had done to a lovely river, badly poured cheap concrete everywhere, 2 sets of ugly concrete steps (one wasnt enough?) dumped straight onto the hillside, big broken concrete rebar posts sticking out of the ground and in the river where they'd tried to put old fences, concrete fishing platforms poured directly onto the banks of the river etc. Rubbish dumped everywhere, old fishing jackets, smell of piss and sh1t from the bushes etc.

What is the legality of this? Don't you need planning permission or something? It was clear all the work had been done by total amateurs from the mess that had been made of an Irish river. Can I form an angling club with my friends and declare a stretch of river our property and fence it off and start concreting it over like they did? I was fuming to be honest, it was such a nice river and gorge aswell, hope other angling clubs arent destroying rivers like this, is this normal? Ill grab pics next time Im passing.

Zzippy

Any pics?

Thargor

Ill get them tomorrow.

fisherking

I left that club years ago..
More interested in fishing competitions in lakes than looking after their own River...
website barely mentions the river
a very poor club imo
Would be interested but not surprised to see them pictures tomorrow

Thar95656780 wrote:

Ill get them tomorrow.

Mr Bumble

I left the club too but mainly because I branched out myself and wanted to fish in other places. They are a nice bunch of people and I would be very surprised if the club was responsible for what is listed above.
I hadn't looked at the website for a long time but t the entire home page is given to a detailed description of the river. Not sure if they could be any more detailed. The Dargle Anglers has always been a social group and lake fishing a big part of their make-up. So what?
Blaming them for the state of the Dargle doesn't make sense. They have rights to a stretch but half of that has been completely destroyed by flood works.
As far as I know, very few club members fish it so they can hardly take the hit for a smell of piss.
As I remember it, the purpose of the security gate (which was secure back in the day) was to keep poachers away from the two best pools in that part of the river. Fishing there was handicapped by the owner of the house above the pool who installed a very expensive sensor based lighting system which would flood the area and put the fish down at any sudden movement.
My guess would be that any concreting may have more to do with the house than the club although I have no idea what anyone has been up to there for the last five or six years.
As everyone knows, this river is poached relentlessly and some of the people involved are hardy to say the least. A club member had shots fired over his head once (really!).
The sad thing about the Dargle is that the fish are still there. Someone had a 7lb sea trout up in Tinnehinch last season.
Blaming the Dargle Anglers is pointless. Perhaps they could be accused of not trying hard enough but I think that would be harsh.
Only a proper management plan with proper poaching patrols and Garda support will help the Dargle.

Thargor

Its nothing to do with the house, that's on the other bank, its everything to do with their amateur attempts to fence off the river, from the big security fence and keypad down there is crumbling concrete stairs, 2 sets of them like they messed up the first one and redid it. Down the bottom they've made an attempt at the type of rebar post fence set in concrete you see around GAA grounds right on the bank of the river then they appear to have abandoned that aswell and gone with the bigger, equally useless fence up on the hill, no way its the work of poachers or homeowners, its obviously done by whoever owns the electronic gate and CCTV system.

It just annoys me that what could be a beautiful nature amenity within walking distance of Bray and Enniskerry can just be landgrabbed by some random people and fenced off and concreted over like this for their own amusement, no doubt you'll find various officials and people with friends and "a few bob" who make it possible.

spaceHopper

A fishing club will have rights to fish the water but they don't own the land, are you sure it was the club who did the work?

Thargor

So a club was granted the fishing rights but then someone else came along and fenced off the river and started pouring stairs and installing cctv and electronic keypads and concrete posts all over the place? All surrounded by signs saying "Dargle Angling Club Members Only"?

Im still struggling to see how this works legally, can I set up my own fishing club and then grab myself a nice stretch of river all of my own like this aswell?

Zzippy

No you can't, and if a fishing club does it it's wrong too. That's a separate issue though, aquiring fishing rights usually means either purchasing them from a vendor, leasing them from a private owner, or getting a licence to manage some State-owned fishing rights. It doesn't mean you, or a club, can do any physical works once you have fishing rights. A lot of clubs think once they get some fishing rights they can do whatever they like with the banks, etc, even instream works. Not so.

Would love to see photos if you can get them.

Thargor

Some pics, it actually looks nice in some of these but when you're there the damage is very irritating:

Just what you want to see on a walk in the woods:


Quality workmanship:


A few meters up the track from that fence is a tunnel in the bushes that takes you straight past all their security down to the bank:


Concrete platforms, 3 or 4 of them on the bank:


Lots of dirty clothes for some reason:




Litter everywhere (very bad in person, not so much in pics):






Staircase #1 (#2 is crumbling and disused to the left of #1):


Old broken fences and rebar, lots of this stuff all over in random places, all the bushes have been cut back everywhere aswell:






The icing on the cake, a short walk down the river and what could have been a nice peaceful secluded spot has been landgrabbed by some rich asshole with this monstrosity:


As I said, it doesn't look too bad in the pics but go have a look yourself sometime, the place has been completely trashed, its not a natural environment anymore it reminds me more of the Royal or Grand canals now and its such a pity because you can see what a beautiful river it was at the gorge, steep cliffs and loads of mini waterfalls and pools etc, very annoying :mad:

jack01986

All those things look like they have been there quite a long time. It does look pretty bad though.

I think the house is very cool though.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

None of that is new. It looks like it is years old. How long has it been there?

Sugarlumps

That summer house was built in the early 70's and then restored, always thought it looked really cool.

http://www.stwarchitects.com/project-information.php?p=07143&t=f

bluezulu49

It appears to me that OP is jumping to conclusions. What evidence is there that there is a right of way into this area?. The existence of a track does not confer right of entry to the public.

The quoted website is run on an anonymous basis by a gentleman who appears per whois.com to live in a house on Sorrento Road in Dalkey. He asserts that there is a right of way there even though he acknowledges on his site that there is a private sign there. This would not be the first time that walkers have erroneously asserted rights in this area where none in fact existed.

The summer house overlooking the gorge is there as stated above since about 1970.

The crumbling concrete looks to me to be very old and for iron to rust to the extent shown in the pictures takes many years. (50 +)

It is my view that the Dargle Anglers erected the fence to try to keep rampant poaching at bay. From personal experience in another club that type of fencing is best way to keep people out.

The OP has assigned responsibility for the litter and the crumbling concrete to the club in the absence of proof. The concrete was probably put there by whoever owns the land and the litter and offensive odours most likely come from the activities of others who use the "right of way".

Thargor

The concrete is not that old, as I said the pics dont show what you see in person. Its a previous failed attempt at blocking off an Irish river for their own personal use.

Its definitely a public right of way, its a laneway from one side of Enniskerry to the other with heavy use, the club have stuck signs all over saying its theirs but the actual fishing part of it.

As for the control of rampant poaching, the only reason poachers are even able to get down to that part of the river is because the've cut a football pitch worth of vegetation back to clear it out for their own use, this is all freshly cut and adds to the mess.

jd6210

On an off topic are there many fishing the dargle? Is it still poached as heavily as ever?? I'd be interested in fishing it, I'm from the area and would like to see wat the fishing is like from a sporting/conservationist point of view! With the wet weather this week you'd imagine fishing would be good??

Mr Bumble

The concrete was old when i joined the club in 2000. You are working with assumptions and don't have facts. Have you tried contacting the club to find out some facts?
The house nearest to the area in question is, I believe, owned by Johnny Ronan and the security fencing may have more to do with that property than the Dargle Anglers. They have the right to fish but do they own the riverbank? I would assume not.
It used to be Lady Valerie Gouldings place and I don't know whether Ronan still owns in it given his financial problems.
24 hour CCTV seems like a luxury most angling clubs could not afford but I may be wrong.
The pictorial evidence you supply does not match your initial description. I was expecting much worse to be honest. It looks much the same as it did when I fished there about ten years ago. It would have taken about a minute to remove the two indeterminate pieces of clothing and some plastic and return what is a lovely pool to it's former glory. I hope you did.

Thargor

Mr Bumble wrote: »

The concrete was old when i joined the club in 2000. You are working with assumptions and don't have facts. Have you tried contacting the club to find out some facts?
The house nearest to the area in question is, I believe, owned by Johnny Ronan and the security fencing may have more to do with that property than the Dargle Anglers. They have the right to fish but do they own the riverbank? I would assume not.
It used to be Lady Valerie Gouldings place and I don't know whether Ronan still owns in it given his financial problems.
24 hour CCTV seems like a luxury most angling clubs could not afford but I may be wrong.
The pictorial evidence you supply does not match your initial description. I was expecting much worse to be honest. It looks much the same as it did when I fished there about ten years ago. It would have taken about a minute to remove the two indeterminate pieces of clothing and some plastic and return what is a lovely pool to it's former glory. I hope you did.

Lol, just because I took 2 pics of the litter doesn't mean there was only 2 pieces of litter there, go and see it for yourself, there are no bins and people are just throwing their rubbish on the ground when they finish, the place is wrecked.

The security fencing is marked all over with Dargle Angling Club signs and an electronic keypad lock onto the concrete steps, its nothing to do with the house downriver on a cliff, thats a total cop out.

As for all the poured concrete being old, does that mean it was done by a different fishing club or something? Give me their name and Ill get a mod to amend the thread title but Im pretty sure its the same crowd involved in all the damage...

Mr Bumble

Have you asked them?

Reedsie

I don't think there can be any winners here. That's a beautiful setting and everyone can only agree that it shouldn't look like that.

A few hours with a consaw would remove those horrible crumbling concrete fenceposts for a start. Hard to believe the club are walking around them for 15+ years.

TireeTerror

Reedsie wrote: »

I don't think there can be any winners here. That's a beautiful setting and everyone can only agree that it shouldn't look like that.

A few hours with a consaw would remove those horrible green security fences and gate and crumbling concrete fenceposts for a start. Hard to believe the club are walking around them for 15+ years.

Fixed that for you. Too many signs telling people where they can and cannot go. Roam wherever you want.

Peregrinus

All the works, including (and perhaps especially) the erection of the fencing, are likely to have been done by the landowner. It looks to me as if the Fishing Club have negotiated a right of access, but it's not clear to me that they have done anything else. I also see no reason to assume that they are more responsible for the litter than other users of the path. If Thargor could use it, then so could many others, whether or not members of the fishing club.

Thargor

No, the fencing is clearly marked as property of Dargle Angling club, same for the security gate, fencing and cctv system, it is the fencing and horrible construction especially the sloppy concrete poured everywhere that is the main problem, as a few people could sort the litter in a day.

Peregrinus

Thargor wrote: »

No, the fencing is clearly marked as property of Dargle Angling club. . .

Not according to your photographs. The sign says "Private Property" and "Dargle Anglers Club Members Only". (Very fond of their Capital Letters, they are.) What that tells me is that the property is private, but DAC members are allowed to enter. It doesn't tell me that the property belongs to the DAC, or that the fencing was erected by them, and in fact it's unlikely that either is the case.

Is there any boundary fence between the area with the concrete platforms, litter, etc, and the Goulding summerhouse? If not, it's likely that the whole area is part of the Goulding Estate, and belongs to the owner of that estate, and that DAC has negotiated a right of access.

BackInTown

If every angler interested in preserving the nature of the place brought a couple of pieces of litter out that would quickly solve the litter issue. And yes each time you entry back there would be more. But such is life. Everyone can and should do their bit. I hope the OP did, as well as rightly discussing the issue here.
As for fencing and shoddy concrete, unless the club own the land they are not responsible. And I doubt they own the land (though basing that solely on my experience of other clubs)

Mr Bumble

Thargor wrote: »

Lol, just because I took 2 pics of the litter doesn't mean there was only 2 pieces of litter there, go and see it for yourself, there are no bins and people are just throwing their rubbish on the ground when they finish, the place is wrecked.

The security fencing is marked all over with Dargle Angling Club signs and an electronic keypad lock onto the concrete steps, its nothing to do with the house downriver on a cliff, thats a total cop out.

As for all the poured concrete being old, does that mean it was done by a different fishing club or something? Give me their name and Ill get a mod to amend the thread title but Im pretty sure its the same crowd involved in all the damage...

For the sake of accuracy, the summerhouse is not the property in question. The house is Dargle Cottage and it overlooks the next pool down from the base of the steps on the same bank. The lane in question is marked by the boundary wall of the property. There is a walkway to the summerhouse from the main cottage and a private bridge further down so they may own the land on both banks.
Upstream, Tinnehinch Estate owns the land along the Dargle and I assume they would have reasonable objections if you decided to wander in and take some snaps.
Personally, I'm glad the fence is there, regardless of who put it up. If it is, in fact private property, you must have had a very long lens to get the pictures without trespassing.

This is a pool which needs protection very badly. For me, that is more important than the freedom to roam. Poachers roam too.

It's an important pool in the river for migratory species. It is a spate river. Fish will hold there because the river's characteristics change dramatically as you travel upstream from a relatively gentle drop to the sea to a long series of small waterfalls. The feeder stream coming down from Enniskerry joins just below the road bridge and fish run that on a flood as well. In other words, two different groups of fish can be in the area waiting to travel.
It takes a very good flood to get fish up so significant numbers can build up in the pools below the cottage, particularly in a dry summer. Open access and it would be scoured clean.

The fish are still there. A very big one was poached just a month ago. It may be that the restricted access at this key point is one of the reasons they still run the river.
I'd be interested to know if you made any enquiries with the club? And their response?

davycc

Jeremiah Bitter Six-shooter wrote: »

None of that is new. It looks like it is years old. How long has it been there?

that house has been there at least since my first trip up the gorge in the mid 90s fly fishing.. always reminded me of the house from ferris beullers day off , that they reverse camerons dads ferrari off the cliiff from:cool::D

thefisherbuy

Hi, Sorty to jump the thread but I'm nearly sure I seen the river and the house on an add on rte, it looked like it was a very nice bit of water, are there still all the rubbish and fences still there? I think the add was by the daily mail not sure though.

Bio Mech

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Hi, Sorty to jump the thread but I'm nearly sure I seen the river and the house on an add on rte, it looked like it was a very nice bit of water, are there still all the rubbish and fences still there? I think the add was by the daily mail not sure though.

it was for The Times. And it was the Summer House in the ad.

Also this thread is quite bizzare.