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House alarm.

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  • 28-05-2015 11:49am
    #1
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭


    Hi - were looking at getting some sort of alarm system installed. We will be replacing the doors to more secure ones too. I was wondering is the phonewatch the only service I should be looking at ? I can see in some posts that sensors are faulty and need servicing is this covered by the contract or are we left do do it all on our own after the initial period after the purchase ? Thanks.


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    #2
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Hi,I mean this in a nice way,
    Have you looked over this forum at all?
    Are you looking at wired or wireless? Shop around and get 3 quotes from some reputable licenced companies. The main difference between PW and other companies is with most company's you will have the option to shop around and switch providers for monitoring/maintenance at any time. The PW system is a closed protocol so you will be tied to them only for monitoring & maintenance. Another factor is you should be looking at perimeter protection. This will activate if someone is attempting to gain access. With PIR protection its only going to notify you after someone had broken into your property. If you cancel a PW contract your app will also no longer work. Using generic systems like Risco ,Siemens & GSD you will have the ability to use apps without being tied to any sort of contract should you not want central station monitoring or maintenance.


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    #3
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭kub


    OP it is well worth your while having a read in this forum with regard to PW. You will be impressed i am sure with the amount of posters wishing to move from them.


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    #4
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭omri


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Hi,I mean this in a nice way,
    Have you looked over this forum at all?
    Are you looking at wired or wireless? Shop around and get 3 quotes from some reputable licenced companies. The main difference between PW and other companies is with most company's you will have the option to shop around and switch providers for monitoring/maintenance at any time. The PW system is a closed protocol so you will be tied to them only for monitoring & maintenance. Another factor is you should be looking at perimeter protection. This will activate if someone is attempting to gain access. With PIR protection its only going to notify you after someone had broken into your property. If you cancel a PW contract your app will also no longer work. Using generic systems like Risco ,Siemens & GSD you will have the ability to use apps without being tied to any sort of contract should you not want central station monitoring or maintenance.

    Thanks - I'm very sorry I'm completely new to the whole idea of having the house alarm / or PW type of service. Once we get the access to the house I should be able to see if there is any type of pre-installed alarm system.

    By shopping around do you mean there are other companies that provide service such as PW or do you mean companies installing the alarm. Having done no previous research and my only source of knowledge is remembering a PW ad we've seen on tv should I presume PW is useless and if there is a break in and they do notify Gardai the suspects will be long gone which defeats the whole purpose of PW ?

    If I get the generic system such as Risco ,Siemens & GSD that you mentioned I should only consider it as a deterrent rather than something that will allow to catch burglars red handed before the damage is done and house is emptied - and therefore there is no real use/benefit of PW type of service.

    I don't mean to turn our house in to a fortress but to get at least some degree of confidence that while we're asleep upstairs with our kids I don't get someone going through our stuff on the floor below. I understand that if we were away theres pretty much nothing that will stop burglars anyway.


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    #5
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Any licenced company can provide monitoring of your alarm system not just phonewatch.
    There are huge diffences between perimeter protection and PiR only protection.
    Any make of alarm like Siemens, Risco GSD etc can be monitored in the same way. But these can be monitored and maintained by an licenced company. So you always have the option to shop around for better price and service. With the new PW system it can only be monitored and maintained by PW. Your alarm could last you 15 years or more. Would you sign up with any other service provider for that long a period with no real option to switch.?


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    #6
    Stoner
    Registered Users Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    OP. We have a policy here if not knocking companies and we try to keep things fair.
    So as the others have said if you read this forum you will see the level of protection you get with different systems.

    It's well worth knowing the difference between detecting if someone is in your house or trying get to get into your house.

    Wireless is very handy and getting better all the time, but having some wired devices is a good thing IMHO rather than 100% wireless.

    A good alarm with good perimeter protection is achievable. As advised it can be monitored. No monitoring station has a special relationship with the police, if they get the signals from the alarm they will call the police if they can't get you.


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    #7
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    HKC is another very very popular brand in Ireland and now UK . they have perimeter protection sensors available as well as PIRs. Phonewatch were Using HKC gear for their wired installs before moving to their current system which can't be taken over by any other monitoring/security company.

    Its also worth a mention that the phonewatch system will cost you a minimum of €420 a year. If you require extra sensors then they add extra to that €420 per year.

    HKC provide a smartphone app and GSM (mobile signal) alarm as well as the ability to have it connected to your home broadband.
    There is a yearly fee that ranges from €60-€90 depending on your installer and what extras they offer. This covers the running of the sim card that uses all available phone networks should one fail. The system will contact a monitoring station for alarm activations as well as calling texting and sending you voice guided notifications on you and your keyholders smartphone.

    Wireless systems are great but a mix of both is always good. Battery life isn't an issue on newer systems . Most give 3-6 year battery life.

    There are plenty of demos of the HKC secure wave range of gear on YouTube.


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    #8
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Signing up to HKC for this service is similar in a way to using the PW services. You will be tied to paying to use this app for the life of the system. Along with whatever price increases come down the line. Much better to go for the free apps and get the central station monitoring you want from a licenced company. You are then free to shop around regularly the same as you would do with most other service providers.


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    #9
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭altor


    omri wrote: »
    Hi - were looking at getting some sort of alarm system installed. We will be replacing the doors to more secure ones too. I was wondering is the phonewatch the only service I should be looking at ? I can see in some posts that sensors are faulty and need servicing is this covered by the contract or are we left do do it all on our own after the initial period after the purchase ? Thanks.

    If you look at the PSA website list of installers here you will see that P.W. are not the only company doing this. Any company once registered can set this up for you.

    It really depends on what contract you would have in place, contracts which cove replacement parts are available but in reality can end up costing you more in the end.

    On the new doors I would also make sure you have anti snap locks fitted.

    www.altor.ie



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    #10
    Sequence 365
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭Sequence 365


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    HKC is another very very popular brand in Ireland and now UK . they have perimeter protection sensors available as well as PIRs. Phonewatch were Using HKC gear for their wired installs before moving to their current system which can't be taken over by any other monitoring/security company.

    Its also worth a mention that the phonewatch system will cost you a minimum of €420 a year. If you require extra sensors then they add extra to that €420 per year.

    HKC provide a smartphone app and GSM (mobile signal) alarm as well as the ability to have it connected to your home broadband.
    There is a yearly fee that ranges from €60-€90 depending on your installer and what extras they offer. This covers the running of the sim card that uses all available phone networks should one fail. The system will contact a monitoring station for alarm activations as well as calling texting and sending you voice guided notifications on you and your keyholders smartphone.

    Wireless systems are great but a mix of both is always good. Battery life isn't an issue on newer systems . Most give 3-6 year battery life.

    There are plenty of demos of the HKC secure wave range of gear on YouTube.

    There are demos of most good equipment on YouTube
    If client would like to be connected to monitoring station there is a charge for this. So pay for app & monitoring .

    Why not go for a free app & pay for monitoring .

    You can get monitoring including world SIM card polling every 3hrs & maintenance (all call outs covered ) for €300 per year . Big saving & a lot more for your money


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    #11
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭omri


    Thanks everyone. That actually sheds more light on the matter. Not sure if in our case perimeter protection would make sense as what we have is semi-detached house with low walled front driveway and bit of a back garden which has only one wall that is not shared with the neighbours. I presume these perimeter protection systems are smart enough not to be triggered by a cat or other agile animal ?

    I will shop around and will consider having wired and wireless systems in place. Also will do more research on the systems you recommended and will come back if I have any further questions. Thanks again for the advice everyone.


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    #12
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭altor


    omri wrote: »
    Thanks everyone. That actually sheds more light on the matter. Not sure if in our case perimeter protection would make sense as what we have is semi-detached house with low walled front driveway and bit of a back garden which has only one wall that is not shared with the neighbours. I presume these perimeter protection systems are smart enough not to be triggered by a cat or other agile animal ?

    I will shop around and will consider having wired and wireless systems in place. Also will do more research on the systems you recommended and will come back if I have any further questions. Thanks again for the advice everyone.

    Perimeter protection is covering the windows and doors of the premises. PIRs are used to back up a system.
    With having just PIRs protecting your home a would be intruder would need to be in your home to activate the alarm. Pet motions can be used for areas with pets.

    www.altor.ie



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    #13
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Sequence 365 wrote: »
    There are demos of most good equipment on YouTube
    If client would like to be connected to monitoring station there is a charge for this. So pay for app & monitoring .
    Yes but its a polled setup and doesn't cost anywhere near €300

    Why not go for a free app & pay for monitoring .

    [/quote]
    No app is free when using GPRS

    You can get monitoring including world SIM card polling every 3hrs & maintenance (all call outs covered ) for €300 per year . Big saving & a lot more for your money[/quote]
    €300 and it only polls every 3 hours ? Securecomm polls well more then that and for cheaper even if you did go with monitoring.
    A new system shouldn't require any call outs within the first year. If there is a call out required due to a fault it shouldn't be up to the end user to pay unless the fault is due to tampering by the end user.


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    #14
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Signing up to HKC for this service is similar in a way to using the PW services. You will be tied to paying to use this app for the life of the system. Along with whatever price increases come down the line. Much better to go for the free apps and get the central station monitoring you want from a licenced company. You are then free to shop around regularly the same as you would do with most other service providers.


    Not really true as youd be free to choose and change your monitoring provider.
    Your tied in with all GSD RISCO and Siemens for the apps. You can't have a risco panel and use GSDs app. The real difference is what you get with each app.

    I believe GSDs app doesn't work over the GSM unit and Siemens won't alert you (yet) of a complete system failure unless you pay a third party.

    So yep they may be free. But with the HKC you're getting
    All data / Calls and texts to your phone as well as notification of a complete system failure or jam for €60 a year. You can have multiple paths to access the app and be alerted via push/text across all or just one of these paths should one or all fail.


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    #15
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    omri wrote: »
    Not sure if in our case perimeter protection would make sense as what we have is semi-detached house with low walled front driveway and bit of a back garden which has only one wall that is not shared with the neighbours. I presume these perimeter protection systems are smart enough not to be triggered by a cat or other agile animal ?

    Perimeter protection is suitable for all properties. Anyone who tells you different is only interested in selling you what they want to fit, not what suits your needs.
    Please do come back with any questions you may have.


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    #16
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    Not really true as youd be free to choose and change your monitoring provider.
    Your tied in with all GSD RISCO and Siemens for the apps. You can't have a risco panel and use GSDs app.
    Not the same thing now really is it.?
    It's free so you are not tied to any payments or contract. You don't have the worry of increasing costs.
    Evolution1 wrote: »
    I believe GSDs app doesn't work over the GSM unit and Siemens won't alert you (yet) of a complete system failure unless you pay a third party.
    You are back to the same arguments that have already been hashed out in the sticky.
    Really no point in going over all that again here.
    The multiple path thing does amaze me though. There was never a mention of this when HKC were promoting their text diallers over a standard landline. Even when everyone in the industry knew the service was going to be discontinued.


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    #17
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Not the same thing now really is it.?
    It's free so you are not tied to any payments or contract. You don't have the worry of increasing costs.

    You can cancel at any stage. Where did I mention it was free ????? Can you back up these claims of increasing costs ? any of us could claim GSD/Siemens and Risco are planning to charge for the service. Until you've written proof its just scaremongering.

    The same can be said for you bringing up arguments from the sticky. What goes for one goes for all.


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    #18
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    You clearly don't understand what you are arguing. The Siemens SPC panel let's you connect directly to the panels web server. You always have the option to connect directly to you panel so charges or increases can never be forced upon you. Still no one can explain to me why HKC block this basic feature.


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    #19
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    KoolKid wrote: »
    You clearly don't understand what you are arguing. The Siemens SPC panel let's you connect directly to the panels web server. You always have the option to connect directly to you panel so charges or increases can never be forced upon you. Still no one can explain to me why HKC block this basic feature.

    ah yes you're correct. since youre connecting directly with the siemens panel then you'd have no way of knowing if the system failed completely using this free service. Thanks for clarifying this.

    Risco and GSD both use cloud services like HKC. Is this true or not??. Absolutely nothing stopping them from charging. Very worrying that this could be achieved since they can charge if they wish. Also why dont they let you connect directly to their panels instead of using their controlled cloud service ?? since its such a basic feature.

    Also can you back up your claims of HKC's price increase???


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    #20
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    Also can you back up your claims of HKC's price increase???

    Its called scaremongering.

    This has being going on a long time now so clarification of this if true should put it to bed.

    www.altor.ie



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    #21
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Evolution you change sides so much it's irrelevant. Are you no longer concerned with all the down times HKC servers have had??

    Neither Siemens GSD or Risco charge for services. HKC do. Yet you are concerned with them applying charges but not about HKC increasing charges.
    Everyone in the industry knows Siemens are introducing network failure notifications but you still harp on about it. Is this not scaremongering as well?
    Siemens have the ability to connect directly so there is no worries about being charged.
    GSD and Risco have give assurances that the service will always be free.
    Will HKC give direct connection or give assurances of no charges and no increase in charges??
    As GSD or Risco don't charge for apps or their use its less relevant. If HKC are likewise minded then perhaps they could give end users the same assurances and give them direct connection to their own systems.


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    #22
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Evolution you change sides so much it's irrelevant. Are you no longer concerned with all the down times HKC servers have had??

    Neither Siemens GSD or Risco charge for services. HKC do. Yet you are concerned with them applying charges but not about HKC increasing charges.
    Everyone in the industry knows Siemens are introducing network failure notifications but you still harp on about it. Is this not scaremongering as well?
    Siemens have the ability to connect directly so there is no worries about being charged.
    GSD and Risco have give assurances that the service will always be free.
    Will HKC give direct connection or give assurances of no charges and no increase in charges??
    As GSD or Risco don't charge for apps or their use its less relevant. If HKC are likewise minded then perhaps they could give end users the same assurances and give them direct connection to their own systems.


    nope


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    #23
    Stoner
    Registered Users Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Guys enough of the bickering please no more hkc vs Siemens.

    The points are well made.


    Op as discussed perimeter protection is a misleading term. It just means adding devices to your windows and doors that detect them being interfered with. Where as with a system that only has PIRs they intruder has to be in your home before it activates.


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