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Paper trail of bids

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  • 28-05-2015 4:49pm
    #1
    Idioteque
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭


    Is it true you're entitled to see a paper trail of bids on a property you are bidding on? If so, what info do you see?

    Heard it from a few different people but no one who has actually done it.

    Thanks


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    #2
    Diane Selwyn
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭Diane Selwyn


    As far as I know (not very far) the EA must keep a written record of all bids but I didn't think it was possible to request a viewing of same - unless perhaps you had such serious concerns over their professionalism that you made a formal complain to their professional body who may be able to access that info?


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    #3
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Diane Selwyn wrote: »
    As far as I know (not very far) the EA must keep a written record of all bids but I didn't think it was possible to request a viewing of same - unless perhaps you had such serious concerns over their professionalism that you made a formal complain to their professional body who may be able to access that info?

    Bang on but even then the process is has more holes in it than my underpants.


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    #4
    CaoimheSquee
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭CaoimheSquee


    Nope, data protection would not allow such a thing I am afraid.
    But if you are worried about there being something untoward log an official complaint with the regulator and they will go through them. As mentioned it is law that all are recorded and relayed to vendor and information has to be quite in depth.


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    #5
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    Idioteque wrote: »
    Is it true you're entitled to see a paper trail of bids on a property you are bidding on? If so, what info do you see?

    Heard it from a few different people but no one who has actually done it.

    Thanks

    There is a "bid book" but sure all they have to do is record phantom bids in that. You can't dig into it and find out if the bids are actually real.

    Asking to look at this bid book is likely to result in a "how dare you" response from the EA.


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    #6
    CaoimheSquee
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭CaoimheSquee


    Bigger estate agents take this sort of stuff very seriously and have compliance officers that run constant checks and audits on this sort of thing, and more.
    Repercussions are pretty big as if they lose their licence then they are out of a job.


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    #7
    Idioteque
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Idioteque


    Yeah, thought it sounded too good to be true. The whole process lacks any transparency and badly needs an overhaul.

    Beginning to wonder what the point of an EA is anymore other than to 'professionally make phantom bids negotiate' and let people into viewings.
    Haven't met one who has bothered to try "sell" the property and the brochure they hand out is just all of the info you've already seen online.


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    #8
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    CaoimheSquee wrote: »
    Bigger estate agents take this sort of stuff very seriously and have compliance officers that run constant checks and audits on this sort of thing, and more.
    Repercussions are pretty big as if they lose their licence then they are out of a job.
    I didn't know that EA's need a license of any sort. Also, surely they could just have a few mates who could put their name on the phantom bids?


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    #9
    CaoimheSquee
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭CaoimheSquee


    Yes, by law you cannot give a property service without a licence.
    EA's are listed publicly that have licenses - if they don't, report them!
    http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/publications-licensees-en

    Phantom bids are really rather unlikely as they can be audited and followed up at any moment by the regulator. There is a lot more to lose now (ie your licence and ability to work) and also huge potential fines.


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    #10
    johnp001
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭johnp001


    CaoimheSquee wrote: »
    Yes, by law you cannot give a property service without a licence.
    EA's are listed publicly that have licenses - if they don't, report them!
    http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/publications-licensees-en

    Phantom bids are really rather unlikely as they can be audited and followed up at any moment by the regulator. There is a lot more to lose now (ie your licence and ability to work) and also huge potential fines.

    Do PSR have a record of those who have been fined and lost their licenses?
    And is it a common occurrence, as not all sectors with regulators are necessarily effectively regulated.
    A "phantom" bid created as suggested by the_syco above would be unlikely to be found fraudulent if audited by a regulator in any case as far as I can see.


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    #11
    CaoimheSquee
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭CaoimheSquee


    You would need to ask the regulator for those stats but all complaints are followed up on and investigated for definite.
    The licence being certainly the priority.


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    #12
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    the_syco wrote: »
    I didn't know that EA's need a license of any sort. Also, surely they could just have a few mates who could put their name on the phantom bids?

    Anybody involved in negotiating or the actual selling of the property needs the license. However, if a person is opening up the house for a viewing and ticking off names on behalf of the EA who does the rest, then they don't need a license.

    Reckon there's plenty of scope for part-time work for folk with free time at weekends! :)


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    #13
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    CaoimheSquee wrote: »
    Bigger estate agents take this sort of stuff very seriously and have compliance officers that run constant checks and audits on this sort of thing, and more.
    Repercussions are pretty big as if they lose their licence then they are out of a job.

    Yeah right.
    Why do the word compliance and audits in this case remind me of our central bank. :rolleyes:

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #14
    johnp001
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭johnp001


    CaoimheSquee wrote: »
    You would need to ask the regulator for those stats but all complaints are followed up on and investigated for definite.
    The licence being certainly the priority.

    I had a look for some information on this but the closest I came to it was this article from a conveyancing solicitor who had previously failed to uncover these stats.
    Still no transparency in the Irish property market
    In the absence of the data may I ask on what basis you are providing the information in your posts above about the behaviour of the regulator and the fines handed down?


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    #15
    CaoimheSquee
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭CaoimheSquee


    I have worked in the property industry for years. Before and after the days of the regulator. I am not an estate agent however.

    All I can provide are the facts as I see them. I know unfortunately people have awful experiences with estate agents - including myself!
    I also have come across some really really hard working folk and honest folk.

    Best of luck folks :)


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    #16
    johnp001
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭johnp001


    Thanks Caoimhe.
    It would be interesting to find some more information on this.
    I dug up an old thread on the subject on boards:
    Estate agents to be prosecuted?
    which talks about prosecutions which were pending in 2013.

    However this article from November 2014:
    Watchdog launches major purge on rogue estate agents
    mentions that the prosecutions pending for December 2014 will be the first to be taken.


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