Denis O'Brien, Catherine Murphy and the threatening lawsuit letters....

keeponhurling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jazus, Lads. Ye're gas! Clutching at straws now. The good ould begrudgery is alive and kicking, even in Dail Eireann. So, Denis O'Brien is a good businessman who drives a hard bargain. So What? So do Dunnes Stores, Tesco and I'm sure Lidl and Aldi. It's called economy of scale. The more you buy, the lower the cost. Simples! I haven't read the whole 17 pages, as work calls. I doubt her figure of 7.5%. Mortgages can be had for 3.7% interest.

Yes indeed.
And with Esat he just had a very strong business case, that's all.

Just a shrewd business man, nothing to see here, move along

Penny Tration

keeponhurling wrote: »

FG-bots to your keyboards please
Repeat, FG-bots please proceed to your keyboards immediately

Not ten minutes later, Maryann84 pops in :pac:

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Deleted User wrote: »

Jazus, Lads. Ye're gas! Clutching at straws now. The good ould begrudgery is alive and kicking, even in Dail Eireann. So, Denis O'Brien is a good businessman who drives a hard bargain. So What? So do Dunnes Stores, Tesco and I'm sure Lidl and Aldi. It's called economy of scale. The more you buy, the lower the cost. Simples! I haven't read the whole 17 pages, as work calls. I doubt her figure of 7.5%. Mortgages can be had for 3.7% interest.

I think the biggest concern people have right now is how a single individual can literally silence a nations media. An individual who wins big government contracts.

The Guardian is carrying the story now.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Jazus, Lads. Ye're gas! Clutching at straws now. The good ould begrudgery is alive and kicking, even in Dail Eireann. So, Denis O'Brien is a good businessman who drives a hard bargain. So What? So do Dunnes Stores, Tesco and I'm sure Lidl and Aldi. It's called economy of scale. The more you buy, the lower the cost. Simples! I haven't read the whole 17 pages, as work calls. I doubt her figure of 7.5%. Mortgages can be had for 3.7% interest.

Yeah, this wasn't a mortgage.

Ultimately this does really boil down to the way business is done at the top end. Winks and nods, people getting super-special treatment because of who they are. A company in the business of providing credit shouldn't just be handing out credit to the CEO's buddies. No matter who the CEO is or how good he is, you don't stay in the credit business long by throwing money at people.

That's what caused the financial crash, and then it turns out 3 years later that the bank at the centre of the whole thing were still engaging in the same handshake shenanigans that caused the whole thing.

It's clearly not the government's fault. Nobody in government signed off on this. And I wouldn't expect them to go announcing it everywhere when they did discover it.
But I would have expected them to do something about it - like fire somebody and exclude DOB from public contracts. And they need to grasp this nettle now and do something about it. Bulling on with their plans will not end well.

As I also said a few weeks back, the appointment of KPMG to investigate the SiteServ deal is a complete joke. Using any of the big 4 firms to investigate is a joke because they're basically all the same people and are not going to find evidence of wrongdoing against themselves or their business partners or alumni.
We need unaffiliated auditors from the UK or US to come in by default for these kinds of audits or investigations. By law, any investigation contracted by the state should bring in foreign experts - be that a financial, medical or forensic investigation.

NS77

frostyjacks wrote: »

Yeah, newstalk glossed over it just now. Spent more time talking on one of the silly stories.

Very awkward treatment of it on Newstalk. Wonder why?

Redbishop

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Any personal banking arrangements that could involve preferential treatment of an individual by a taxpayer funded bank gives everyone a right to know.

I m not arguing with you there Tanga. But my point is who gets to decide if there is preferential treatment? Is it the media or the public? For this to happen then someones personal banking details have to be made public and I go back to my earlier point that if that is the case then everyones banking details should have to be public, Not just DOBs, otherwise you are discriminating against him. Due process and all that.

seamus

NS77 wrote: »

Very awkward treatment of it on Newstalk. Wonder why?

Who do you think owns NewsTalk?

_Kaiser_

NS77 wrote: »

Very awkward treatment of it on Newstalk. Wonder why?

Cause he owns it...

O'Brien set up and chaired the Esat Digifone consortium which won a mobile phone licence in the 1990s.[3] The Moriarty Tribunal found almost beyond doubt that O'Brien's won this contract due to payments he made to Michael Lowry, the then communications minister, who unduly influenced the bidding process.

This contract formed the basis of O'Brien's fortune. He established Digicel, a major telecoms provider in the Caribbean. O'Brien formed Communicorp Group Ltd in 1989, with the company currently owning 42 radio stations in eight European countries, including Ireland's Newstalk, Today FM, Dublin's 98 (formerly 98FM), Spin 1038 and Spin South West.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_O%27Brien

NS77

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Cause he owns it...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_O%27Brien

Sarcasm meter must be faulty ;-)

_Kaiser_

NS77 wrote: »

Sarcasm meter must be faulty ;-)

More coffee needed I think But still, worth highlighting for those reading this thread who aren't aware of how far this guy's control over our media goes.

Tony EH

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

meh, whole thing stinks of mindless begrudgery tbh.

Spoken like a true muppet.

:pac:

keeponhurling

seamus wrote: »

Who do you think owns NewsTalk?

Ah, I see

gaius c

Help me out here lads. Are these the Siteserv loans or are they separate loans to DOB personally?
It's very hard to make any sense out of all this, primarily because of the strictures on reporting.

The siteserve loans are reported to be €150 million before writedown but the articles from yesterday are talking about preferential interest rates on €500 million of loans. Where's the other €350 million coming from?

SafeSurfer

Redbishop wrote: »

I m not arguing with you there Tanga. But my point is who gets to decide if there is preferential treatment? Is it the media or the public? For this to happen then someones personal banking details have to be made public and I go back to my earlier point that if that is the case then everyones banking details should have to be public, Not just DOBs, otherwise you are discriminating against him. Due process and all that.

They are hardly DO'Bs "personal" banking details. It's not the same as discussing publicly how much interest an individual is paying on their mortgage. These are companies, separate entities from O' Brien.
More "personal" information is divulged and discussed publicly in court every day during cases involving the repossession of family homes.

Tabnabs

For all the abuse the Guardian newspaper takes, and for all the drivel they have published in the past (Owen Jones et al.), they are not afraid to report on stories that others shy away from or are forbidden to reprint.

Here is a key passage from her speech (edited only to make it explicable to people outside Ireland who have not followed the details of a long-run saga):

“We are now aware... that the former CEO of IBRC made verbal agreements with Denis O’Brien to allow him to extend the terms of his already expired loans...

I understand that Mr O’Brien was enjoying a rate of approximately 1.25% when IBRC could, and arguably should, have been charging 7.5%.

Given that we are talking about outstanding sums of upwards of €500 million, the interest rate applied is not an insignificant issue for the public interest.

We also know that Denis O’Brien felt confident enough in his dealings with IBRC that he could write to Kieran Wallace, the special liquidator, and demand that the same favourable terms extended to him by way of a verbal agreement be continued.

We now have Kieran Wallace, who has been appointed by the government to conduct the IBRC review, actually joining with IBRC and Denis O’Brien in the high court to seek to injunct the information I have outlined from coming into the public domain. Surely that alone represents a conflict”.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/may/29/irelands-media-silenced-over-mps-speech-about-denis-obrien?CMP=share_btn_tw

keano_afc

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Personally what I want to see is political shunning. Anyone once found guilty by a tribunal or court of any kind of corruption is permanently barred from getting any further state contracts of any kind.

Zero tolerance. If once you act like a cute hoor, you are never again allowed within a mile of anything involving exchequer money.

And likewise, any TD involved should be barred from running for office.

It sickens me to see the letters TD after Michael Lowry's name.

Oryx

How long before boards gets a nice letter from some solicitors over this thread?

Streetwalker

Ireland. The best little democracy money can buy.

Redbishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

They are hardly DO'Bs "personal" banking details. It's not the same as discussing publicly how much interest an individual is paying on their mortgage. These are companies, separate entities from O' Brien.
More "personal" information is divulged and discussed publicly in court every day during cases involving the repossession of family homes.

yep

super_furry

Oryx wrote: »

How long before boards gets a nice letter from some solicitors over this thread?

Broadsheet got one, replied saying that they were protected by the constitution and got a letter back basically saying 'were watching you'.

Disgusting to see the power a foreign resident can have over the Irish courts and media.

buckfasterer

Oryx wrote: »

How long before boards gets a nice letter from some solicitors over this thread?

I'd say contact the individuals talking about the subject. in fact, contact me personally and I'll act as a figurehead for the thread and they can take me to court. I've nothing to lose. You can't take the knickers off a bare arse.

_Kaiser_

Oryx wrote: »

How long before boards gets a nice letter from some solicitors over this thread?

Indeed.. as I said in the other thread, I'm kinda surprised this has been allowed by Boards/Mods given they normally seem to err on the side of caution on such controversy.

Is this a policy change? If so it's a welcome one tbh..

suicide_circus

Only one thing men like this understand, the guillotine.

gaius c

gaius c wrote: »

Help me out here lads. Are these the Siteserv loans or are they separate loans to DOB personally?
It's very hard to make any sense out of all this, primarily because of the strictures on reporting.

The siteserve loans are reported to be €150 million before writedown but the articles from yesterday are talking about preferential interest rates on €500 million of loans. Where's the other €350 million coming from?

Anyone?

Oryx

buckfasterer wrote: »

I'd say contact the individuals talking about the subject. in fact, contact me personally and I'll act as a figurehead for the thread and they can take me to court. I've nothing to lose. You can't take the knickers off a bare arse.

They will come after the publisher.

blinding

Denis O'Brien is now our great Spiritual leader and He has the Courts to let us know "How Great He Is"

seamus

gaius c wrote: »

Help me out here lads. Are these the Siteserv loans or are they separate loans to DOB personally?
It's very hard to make any sense out of all this, primarily because of the strictures on reporting.

The siteserve loans are reported to be €150 million before writedown but the articles from yesterday are talking about preferential interest rates on €500 million of loans. Where's the other €350 million coming from?

This is entirely separate. In short, there were loans of €500m to IBRC outstanding which were past due to be paid back. Based on a handshake agreement with no oversight or credit risk process, the loans were extended and given an interest rate of 1.25% instead of the 7.5% which would have been more typical of the time.

So not really anything to do with SiteServ. However, the reason SiteServ is being brought in is because the man/company tasked with overseeing the investigation into the SiteServ deal, is the same man who was the special liquidators for IBRC. When they took over IBRC's dealings, the handshake agreement was continued, again seemingly with no oversight and with the same interest rate.

So it's clear that it's completely inappropriate for this person/company to be investigating the SiteServ deal.

smash

Oryx wrote: »

They will come after the publisher.

you don't see them going after twitter...

_Kaiser_

suicide_circus wrote: »

Only one thing men like this understand, the guillotine.

Nah, the most effective way to deal with these things is to hit them with fines and "white collar" charges like insider dealing, abuse of a dominant position etc. Parallel to that make it so uncomfortable for their "friends" to be linked to them that they get hung out to dry!

There's nothing that rich influential people fear more than the prospect of being turned into poor powerless plebs (also known as the common man!)

renegademaster

TallGlass wrote: »

Well. I'm lost for words. Why in gods name was he getting a rate so low, this deal has robbed the tax payer of millions in interest.

Why? Simply because we are a bunch of sheep who have done sweet fck all up to now and even with all this coming out we're still doing fuk all about it

Banjo String

buckfasterer wrote: »

I'd say contact the individuals talking about the subject. in fact, contact me personally and I'll act as a figurehead for the thread and they can take me to court. I've nothing to lose. You can't take the knickers off a bare arse.

This.

Tried it many a night after far too much porter.

gaius c

seamus wrote: »

This is entirely separate. In short, there were loans of €500m to IBRC outstanding which were past due to be paid back. Based on a handshake agreement with no oversight or credit risk process, the loans were extended and given an interest rate of 1.25% instead of the 7.5% which would have been more typical of the time.

So not really anything to do with SiteServ. However, the reason SiteServ is being brought in is because the man/company tasked with overseeing the investigation into the SiteServ deal, is the same man who was the special liquidators for IBRC. When they took over IBRC's dealings, the handshake agreement was continued, again seemingly with no oversight and with the same interest rate.

So it's clear that it's completely inappropriate for this person/company to be investigating the SiteServ deal.

Thank you. And these loans were to DOB personally?
So he's basically in arrears and bullying his way to a sweet deal?

smash

I have in the past defended O'Brien in the face of begrudgery but his business dealings come across as nothing short of criminal, amplified by the continuous attempted cover ups through legal proceedings and the over all lack of reporting because he owns the majority of the media.

take everything

Love the way it's the third last story on the independent page. And there's nothing new in it. It's just the bare minimum in uninteresting technical prose. No mention of interest rates being dropped to half nothing.

http://www.m.independent.ie/

Oryx

smash wrote: »

you don't see them going after twitter...

Its simply a case of not picking on someone bigger than you. Twitter and FB have the clout to swat a vexatious case away. Smaller companies cannot take that risk.

suicide_circus

smash wrote: »

I have in the past defended O'Brien in the face of begrudgery but his business dealings come across as nothing short of criminal, amplified by the continuous attempted cover ups through legal proceedings and the over all lack of reporting because he owns the majority of the media.

Lest we forget, moriarity confirmed the man is corrupt in 1997.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

buckfasterer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Well he does own the indo.

Gonna start being easier to name the media outlets the **** doesn't own soon.

Ghost Buster

aaaaaaaand collapsed government/general election in ....3.........2........1...

FalconGirl

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Where is the same level of outrage at social welfare fraud?...which is also the thieving of taxpayers money. Double standards propped up by begrudgery.

Ah yes, a known tactic to turn people at the lower end of the spectrum against each other. Dont be trying to derail the thread.:rolleyes:

Baggy Trousers

This whole Siteserv/IBRC thing absolutely stinks!!
And O'Brien is acting like a bully.
We need strong journalists and politicians now.

Hermy

JillyQ wrote: »

It fairly difficult to get state contracts,I know when you do tender you have to go through hoops with tax clearence certs etc.

Some years ago my late mother became a wheelchair user and needed a downstairs bathroom.
She approached the council who told her to get a builder to submit plans and if it met with their approval she'd get the grant.
The builder she approached submitted all that they asked of him including tax clearance and other legal stuff and detailed plans but the council said no.
She approached a second builder, himself a quantity surveyor who could detail things down to the last nut and bolt. He even had his architect submit proper drawings.
The council refused.
She then approached an establish bathroom company who didn't submit any such detailed plans and were accepted immediately.
The established bathroom company then subcontracted the work out to some Eastern European cowboy and I had to take 2 weeks off work to supervise things.

So while some people who tender for state contracts may be expected to go through hops I wonder do those who actually get the state contracts have to do the same?

DeVore

I have posted a link to a piece of protected speech in The Oireachtas. That's not actionable and no letters have been received in Boards HQ to my knowledge. If they do arrive, I'll be sure to let you all know. Don't do or say anything actionable in the mean time (I mean it!)

smash

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

This whole Siteserv/IBRC thing absolutely stinks!!
And O'Brien is acting like a bully.
We need strong journalists and politicians now.

The politicians need to take the bull by the horns here and have an open and frank discussion about it all in the Dail where they're protected. Once the facts are laid out, it's up to the media to decide on the reporting but even if they don't, at least all the info is out in the public domain then.

DeVore

Oh, and that link to the Oireachtas and whats going on with the media is worth sharing on all your FaceTwits and Bookr Pluses.

Jimoslimos

The strange thing is, I'm not overly concerned about what DOB is alleged to have done (the preferential interest rates on his loans that is).

It is the conduct of the IBRC that is more worrying. All the media censorship has done is focus the attention back on O'Brien.

renegademaster

buckfasterer wrote: »

Gonna start being easier to name the media outlets the **** doesn't own soon.

He doesn't and can never own community radio

smash

I'd like to think Vinny B would have the balls to jump on this and talk about it tonight.

Orion

DeVore wrote: »

Oh, and that link to the Oireachtas and whats going on with the media is worth sharing on all your FaceTwits and Bookr Pluses.

Already done. Even copy/pasted the entire broadsheet article in case DOB does get it taken down. Nice that it's gone international now with the Guardian. I'd say it's only a matter of time before Al-Jazeera pick it up.

renegademaster

smash wrote: »

The politicians need to take the bull by the horns here and have an open and frank discussion about it all in the Dail where they're protected. Once the facts are laid out, it's up to the media to decide on the reporting but even if they don't, at least all the info is out in the public domain then.

Have you seen what passes for governess here the last few years, illegal promissory notes changed in the dread of the night and more