POC to sign for Toulon

thomond2006

I keep reading about a clause that POC cannot play against Munster. That's pretty ridiculous if true.

George Hook

What age is his kid? Anyone reckon he'd stay out there and pick up some coaching practice before heading back?

Dave_The_Sheep

Flipper22 wrote: »

He's right, as an Ireland fan I won't be able help but support Toulon if POC is playing.

I will. Very easily.

Great deal for O'Connell though, he's definitely done more than earn it. Nice pay day and some decent weather for a change - I'd jump at the chance myself.

stephen_n

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/05/29/munster-fans-question-ginger-mans-decision-to-move-to-sunny-location/

dub_skav

Shame he didn't have an idea this was coming some time back. Might have avoided some questionable decisions:

CatFromHue

He's going to get sooooo sun burnt

shuffol

Delighted for him, deserves to have a god-like status in more than one country.

aimee1

thomond2006 wrote: »

I keep reading about a clause that POC cannot play against Munster. That's pretty ridiculous if true.

i would be very disappointed with the IRFU/Munster if that was something they insisted on.

Hagz

ABT

Podge_irl

aimee1 wrote: »

i would be very disappointed with the IRFU/Munster if that was something they insisted on.

It would be completely absurd.

stephen_n

aimee1 wrote: »

i would be very disappointed with the IRFU/Munster if that was something they insisted on.

How could the IRFU/Munster insert any Clause in his contract, he's moving as a free agent, it's not like soccer where they're selling him to Toulon. The only one who could insist on that is the player himself.

aimee1

stephen_n wrote: »

How could the IRFU/Munster insert any Clause in his contract, he's moving as a free agent, it's not like soccer where they're selling him to Toulon. The only one who could insist on that is the player himself.

he is under contract until june 2016

dregin

Can't think of many players who are more deserving of a great pay packet to see em into retirement. Fair play to him.

GavMan

aimee1 wrote: »

he is under contract until june 2016

Clearly the contract is going to be voided by the agreement of both parties. Perhaps with some compensation paid by Toulon...

vienne86

Delighted for Paul - I hope he earns a packet, enjoys two years of the sun on his back and has a great experience with his family in France.

stephen_n

aimee1 wrote: »

he is under contract until june 2016

With Munster or IRFU? Sorry I thought his Munster contract was up after this season.

aimee1

stephen_n wrote: »

With Munster or IRFU? Sorry I thought his Munster contract was up after this season.

central contract with irfu runs for another 12 months.

blackdog1

aimee1 wrote: »

central contract with irfu runs for another 12 months.

If he retires from international rugby doesn't this make his contract null and void?.

Podge_irl

blackdog1 wrote: »

If he retires from international rugby doesn't this make his contract null and void?.

He can't retire from international rugby unless he retires from rugby. He can't just void his contract. If he goes to Toulon it's because the IRFU have released him from his contract.

Neil3030

I wonder if Paulie on their roster could make me root for Toulon... Guess we'll just have to wait and see!

Cookiemunster

aimee1 wrote: »

central contract with irfu runs for another 12 months.

As it's an IRFU contract rather than a Munster one, then POC/Toulon will be dealing with the IRFU not Munster. In that situation I can't see how Munster can demand anything of Toulon.
Also as a Munster fan I'd hate to see that kind of restriction put in place.

total former

I've seen no mention of any such clause anywhere except here and I don't think it's remotely likely.

awec

Podge_irl wrote: »

It would be completely absurd.

It also can't happen.

Munster and the IRFU don't own the player. Once he signs a Toulon contract the IRFU and Munster have absolutely no control over what he does and Toulon are free to use their own player as they see fit.

"Cannot play against Munster" wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on.

I doubt it's true anyway. It's too crappy a clause to actually be put in.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

It also can't happen.

Munster and the IRFU don't own the player. Once he signs a Toulon contract the IRFU and Munster have absolutely no control over what he does and Toulon are free to use their own player as they see fit.

"Cannot play against Munster" wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on.

I doubt it's true anyway. It's too crappy a clause to actually be put in.

Nah, that's not necessarily true. It happens in other sports where a player is provided on loan to another side (didn't it happen with Cooney this season? Maybe not), I'm sure it would be possible to put the clause in place if someone really wanted to, but I can't imagine it's something anyone really wants to pursue.

stephen_n

aimee1 wrote: »

central contract with irfu runs for another 12 months.

Not being privy to the details or in's and outs of contracts, I would assume making yourself unavailable for selection would end any central contract. The club contracts would be a different matter. Having said all that I couldn't see the IRFU standing in his way though, one way or the other.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nah, that's not necessarily true. It happens in other sports where a player is provided on loan to another side (didn't it happen with Cooney this season? Maybe not), I'm sure it would be possible to put the clause in place if someone really wanted to, but I can't imagine it's something anyone really wants to pursue.

A loan is different though.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

A loan is different though.

It's not really, it just involves a different type of agreement, it's not something that's legally infeasible. It's just not realistic.

UnitedWeStand

Deserves the money. Just wish it wasn't Toulon he was signing for. Can't stand that club, the thought of one of my favourite players ever joining them is painful. Then again POC has a family to raise, 1.2M euros :eek:

Podge_irl

POC is still contracted. He needs to be released from his contract for this deal to happen. He can't retire from international rugby without retiring full stop under his current deal. You cannot just end a contract like that. The IRFU could require the clause to release him.

I simply don't see anyone asking for or agreeing to such a clause though.

Cookiemunster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nah, that's not necessarily true. It happens in other sports where a player is provided on loan to another side (didn't it happen with Cooney this season? Maybe not), I'm sure it would be possible to put the clause in place if someone really wanted to, but I can't imagine it's something anyone really wants to pursue.

It only happens with loans. Premier League rules for example don't allow a player to play against their parent club, but it's illegal to have an agreement in a permanent transfer saying that they can't play against their previous club.

pickarooney

George Hook wrote: »

What age is his kid? Anyone reckon he'd stay out there and pick up some coaching practice before heading back?

Paddy's five so the doors are open. I should be getting my coaching licence for the under-6s by this time next year so he's welcome to bring the young fella down to see what he's made of

irishbucsfan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It only happens with loans. Premier League rules for example don't allow a player to play against their parent club, but it's illegal to have an agreement in a permanent transfer saying that they can't play against their previous club.

So, it would be very simple to put it into practice in this situation. But again, I don't see why the IRFU would be interested in pushing the envelope on that sort of thing when financial reimbursement would be far more useful.

Cookiemunster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

So, it would be very simple to put it into practice in this situation. But again, I don't see why the IRFU would be interested in pushing the envelope on that sort of thing when financial reimbursement would be far more useful.

How? It's not a loan it's a permanent transfer. I've never heard of such a clause being used in any sport with a permanent transfer.

jm08

Cookiemunster wrote: »

How? It's not a loan it's a permanent transfer. I've never heard of such a clause being used in any sport with a permanent transfer.

You frequently see non-competing clauses in business with no legal issues - for instance, a multfi national company buying another might stipulate that the local business owners selling out cannot go into a similar business for at least 2 years.

Just remember, the IRFU hold POC's contract and so they are the ones in the driving seat.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

You frequently see non-competing clauses in business with no legal issues - for instance, a multfi national company buying another might stipulate that the local business owners selling out cannot go into a similar business for at least 2 years.

Just remember, the IRFU hold POC's contract and so they are the ones in the driving seat.

They don't have to release him but I struggle to see how the clause would actually be enforceable.

Besides which it's petty and unrealistic.

irishbucsfan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

How? It's not a loan it's a permanent transfer. I've never heard of such a clause being used in any sport with a permanent transfer.

If it was a permanent transfer the clause may not hold up under EU law, however it doesn't have to be a permanent transfer.

bmm

I would be worried for Munster next season without Paulie, but it has to happen sometime i'spose ! Good Luck to him.

PTH2009

Best of luck to him, never played a bad game in his life imo

Some laugh if toulon are in the same group as Munster in the European Cup next season. Think Munster will be in the doldrums for a few years now

irishbucsfan

PTH2009 wrote: »

Best of luck to him, never played a bad game in his life imo

Some laugh if toulon are in the same group as Munster in the European Cup next season. Think Munster will be in the doldrums for a few years now

Certainly there is no replacing POC but Munster are in quite a good position thanks to strong leadership emerging at the right time in POM. I think himself and Ryan will fill that void pretty well in terms of leadership, the technical ability will be what's really missed.

marienbad

Podge_irl wrote: »

They don't have to release him but I struggle to see how the clause would actually be enforceable.

Besides which it's petty and unrealistic.

Didn't Chelsea try that in the Champions League a few seasons back with the Atletico Madrid goalkeeper and were quickly ruled out of order by Platini .
Not the same sport but it is a precedent .

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

You frequently see non-competing clauses in business with no legal issues - for instance, a multfi national company buying another might stipulate that the local business owners selling out cannot go into a similar business for at least 2 years.

Just remember, the IRFU hold POC's contract and so they are the ones in the driving seat.

Non-compete clauses / restraints of trade are NOTORIOUSLY hard to enforce and are required to pass many legal tests before they are successful, especially when you are talking about individuals.

If there is ANY truth to the "won't play against Munster" clause then it's either something which Paulie insisted as part of his contract, or it's something that Toulon wanted so that they can not pick him for those games without providing a reason (some contracts in sport have certain guarantee's around selection criteria).

There is no way that Munster or the IRFU would look (or could) impose a restriction. Also, POC can walk away from his contract at any time with Munster / IRFU albeit the restrictions that teams can hold over players around their image rights and other things can be carried.

Anyway, Paulie will go to Toulon if he wants, and the IRFU / Munster won't do anything about it. He will play against Munster if he and Toulon wants also.

There may be a buyout clause that Toulon will agree to, but it will already be part of his contract and not something negotiated now.

total former

OMFG

This "clause" - where has it been reported?

Anyone?

total former

BTW in general they are very hard to enforce but in this case it would be binding.

Except it's completely fictional and fictional contractual obligations are notoriously difficult to enforce, mainly due to European Regulation (EC)1276/2009 which explicitly prohibits made-up internet rumours from infringing on the rights of citizens.

total former

total former wrote: »

OMFG

This "clause" - where has it been reported?

Anyone?

I hadn't heard about it anywhere until I came on here but after a quick google I see that News Channel DSN is running the story.

www.desperatesupportersnetwork.com

thomond2006

total former wrote: »

OMFG

This "clause" - where has it been reported?

Anyone?

I saw it somewhere. Can't remember where, sorry.

Fireball07

Why would we even bother? Tbh I'd love to see Paulie play in Thomond Park again.

Wang King

PTH2009 wrote: »

Best of luck to him, never played a bad game in his life imo

Some laugh if toulon are in the same group as Munster in the European Cup next season. Think Munster will be in the doldrums for a few years now

Munster win today and they are too seeds for the champions cup, iys more likely that Toulon an Leinster would be drawn in the same group

Cookiemunster

thomond2006 wrote: »

I saw it somewhere. Can't remember where, sorry.

Cian Tracey had it in his article last week and retweeted it yesterday. Never replied to me when I tweeted him that the clause unenforceable BS.

partyguinness

Deleted User wrote: »

Non-compete clauses / restraints of trade are NOTORIOUSLY hard to enforce and are required to pass many legal tests before they are successful, especially when you are talking about individuals.

If there is ANY truth to the "won't play against Munster" clause then it's either something which Paulie insisted as part of his contract, or it's something that Toulon wanted so that they can not pick him for those games without providing a reason (some contracts in sport have certain guarantee's around selection criteria).

There is no way that Munster or the IRFU would look (or could) impose a restriction. Also, POC can walk away from his contract at any time with Munster / IRFU albeit the restrictions that teams can hold over players around their image rights and other things can be carried.

Anyway, Paulie will go to Toulon if he wants, and the IRFU / Munster won't do anything about it. He will play against Munster if he and Toulon wants also.

There may be a buyout clause that Toulon will agree to, but it will already be part of his contract and not something negotiated now.

While it is complete bollocks, why in Gods name would Muster/IRFU try that restriction on?

The whole rationale for a ROT clause is to protect the former employer's business. How in God's name is POC playing against Munster adversely affecting Munster's business. It doesnt.

POC against Munster at Thomand Park would see the gate/TV receipts sky rocket. Happy days for the bean counters at Thomand Park.

Stheno

Neil Francis was most unhappy about this move in the sindo yesterday