"Dangerization" and cycling

Danjamin1

http://www.independent.ie/life/city-cycling/katy-mcguinness-cycling-would-be-such-fun-but-as-a-mum-its-not-worth-the-risk-34613512.html

One incident with one @rsehole & this prson's sworn both herself & her kids off cycling for good, I don't understand this attitude.

CramCycle

Danjamin1 wrote: »

One incident with one @rsehole & this prson's sworn both herself & her kids off cycling for good, I don't understand this attitude.

It sells papers or at least acts as click bait. There will always be some parents like this, my mother in law being one of them but at least she lets me cycles now.

If her fear was that genuine or she had reasoned it out at all, two things would have happened, either she would have realised the idiocy of it, or if she still believed it was necessary to protect her kids from such risks, she would never let them leave the house, never mind bring them anywhere in a car.

check_six

Danjamin1 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/life/city-cycling/katy-mcguinness-cycling-would-be-such-fun-but-as-a-mum-its-not-worth-the-risk-34613512.html

One incident with one @rsehole & this prson's sworn both herself & her kids off cycling for good, I don't understand this attitude.

Where is the writer based I wonder?
The article states "Grazed knees are one thing, but the vulnerability of the cyclist in a city that has to be one of the most cycle-unfriendly in the world is quite another."

Where is the most cycle-unfriendly city in the world according to this writer? I know we had a lot of negative news on some ridiculous anti-cycling laws stuff in Australia, is it there maybe?

Macy0161

Took my 7 and 8 year old out on the road over easter actually - it was noticeable how much more space and respect we were given compared to when I'm out on my own and in a group. I think my conclusion is therefore it's better to cycle with the chaps!

Tenzor07

The writer sounds like a great laugh:

We are not what you would call an outdoors family. We don't hike mountains or abseil for fun. We don't jump out of planes for charity (we'd prefer to bake cakes or pack bags) or participate in Tough Mudders or To Hell and Backs.

Looks like the biggest adventure the likes of her and there family has would be loading up the Land Rover Vogue and driving from Sandyford to the Dundrum shopping centre, on the exciting hunt of a good parking space wide enough for the big 3litre diesel beast! :rolleyes:

Danjamin1

The most annoying thing about this is that she was cut up by another cyclist on an off road cycle path in France, and yet this translates to a fear & unwillingness to cycle in traffic in, presumably, Dublin.

check_six

Hold your horses there!

The writer is saying that Dublin is "one of the most cycle-unfriendly in the world"??!?
Dublin? Really?

What the hell is "fact" that based on? Certainly not on first hand experience if the last time they were on a bike was ten years ago on holiday. That's an outrageously wrongheaded thing to state anywhere, never mind as an attempt at professional journalism.

Dublin is actually pretty good on cycle friendliness by any standard. It could do better, but there is a lot in it's favour:
- The Dublin Bike Scheme is one of the most successful bike share schemes anywhere
- The terrain is mostly flat
- The weather is not too extreme (rare enough to get caught in the rain on the bike never mind the reputation).
- Trucks are banned from the city
- 30kph speed limits in the city centre
- Generous Bike to Work scheme has increased cycling numbers
- Lots of friendly local bike shops
- There are lots of bike lanes. Some are alright.

A very poor effort by the writer. Just looking out the window would let them see the massively increased numbers of cyclists in the city. Dublin can't be too bad can it?

KingBrian2

The conditions of the roads and the vandals are the only aspects of Dublin Cycling that is a major issue to me. Some surfaces are very difficult to navigate especially at peak hours. The vandals and thieves also hate bikes in this city. Nothing unique about Dublin when it comes to that.

Ronald Wilson Reagan

Be a mother not a murderer, get little jimmy a SUV, ideally one less than 10 years old anything older is a defective death trap that kills polar bears.

Tenzor07

check_six wrote: »

Dublin is actually pretty good on cycle friendliness by any standard. It could do better, but there is a lot in it's favour:
- Trucks are banned from the city
- 30kph speed limits in the city centre
- There are lots of bike lanes. Some are alright.

A very poor effort by the writer. Just looking out the window would let them see the massively increased numbers of cyclists in the city. Dublin can't be too bad can it?

In my own opinion i'd say, we're better than some American cities, and Australian towns and cities also, maybe Russian cities too...

Other than that we're 20 or 30 years behind a lot of our more enlightened Northern European neighbours with regards to infrastructure and laws which protect cyclists and pedestrians...

The city centre 30kph speed limit i'd say is largely notional unless there's heavy vehicle traffic to slow cars down, outside of the core city centre the speed limits are generally only notional also, along with the widespread use of bus lanes as "express lanes" to bypass law abiding motorists in the driving lane...this is down to mainly lack of Gardai presence and enforcement..

Close passing of less than 1 metre is quite common also with no law to say otherwise, so again, you take your chances, a painted cycle lane isn't going to do Jack to protect you either...

All of the above along with other factors will see Dublin slipping out of the top 20 bike friendly cities soon in the copenhagenize index(slipped 5 places last year)..

check_six

Tenzor07 wrote: »

...
All of the above along with other factors will see Dublin slipping out of the top 20 bike friendly cities soon in the copenhagenize index(slipped 5 places last year)..

That may be true, but when you are in Dublin do you feel like you are a "cyclist in a city that has to be one of the most cycle-unfriendly in the world". I would contend that you do not. This is my beef with the article. The rest of the article is not any good either, but the idea that Dublin is the most cycle-unfriendly city in the world is laughable.

I wonder which newspaper is the most cycle-unfriendly in the world? (The indo doesn't even manage to be that!).

CramCycle

check_six wrote: »

That may be true, but when you are in Dublin do you feel like you are a "cyclist in a city that has to be one of the most cycle-unfriendly in the world".

I never do, occasionally I feel like I am in a city with some idiots, but always a tiny %. It is rarely the layout for cyclists that causes issues (although they could be improved).

All in all, I find it far better than many I have cycled in, some even better than out "friendlier" countries.

laraghrider

Being completely honest here. I've been commuting to and from work now for 15 years. This has me cycling right through the city center on a daily basis. During that time I've had two crashes. First a pedestrian who was robbing a shop ran into me on the quays. I actually helped get him arrested that day as he was being chased by a garda. Second was a car who turned right across me to go into a filling station.

2 crashes in 15 years and to be honest I have more agro with other drivers when I'm in the car than I do on the bike. I genuinely have hardly any agro with a motorist when I'm cycling. Quite the opposite in fact. It's usually waving someone on or being let move over/across etc... I would say that Dublin is a very safe place to cycle and if you're having a lot of agro or incidents then you really need to look at how your cycling.

danburke

check_six wrote: »

Hold your horses there!

The writer is saying that Dublin is "one of the most cycle-unfriendly in the world"??!?
Dublin? Really?

What the hell is "fact" that based on? Certainly not on first hand experience if the last time they were on a bike was ten years ago on holiday. That's an outrageously wrongheaded thing to state anywhere, never mind as an attempt at professional journalism.

Dublin is actually pretty good on cycle friendliness by any standard. It could do better, but there is a lot in it's favour:
- The Dublin Bike Scheme is one of the most successful bike share schemes anywhere
- The terrain is mostly flat
- The weather is not too extreme (rare enough to get caught in the rain on the bike never mind the reputation).
- Trucks are banned from the city
- 30kph speed limits in the city centre
- Generous Bike to Work scheme has increased cycling numbers
- Lots of friendly local bike shops
- There are lots of bike lanes. Some are alright.

A very poor effort by the writer. Just looking out the window would let them see the massively increased numbers of cyclists in the city. Dublin can't be too bad can it?

where did she mention dublin?

check_six

danburke wrote: »

where did she mention dublin?

The writer didn't mention Dublin explicitly. I initially assumed that they lived in some kind of warzone when they said they were in the most cycle-unfriendly city in the world. I wondered where they lived that was so awful.

Turns out they are based in Dublin, hence my surprise.

danburke

check_six wrote: »

The writer didn't mention Dublin explicitly. I initially assumed that they lived in some kind of warzone when they said they were in the most cycle-unfriendly city in the world. I wondered where they lived that was so awful.

Turns out they are based in Dublin, hence my surprise.

fair enough.

But you always get these people. Cotton woolling their little angles.

poochiem

check_six wrote: »

Hold your horses there!

The writer is saying that Dublin is "one of the most cycle-unfriendly in the world"??!?
Dublin? Really?

What the hell is "fact" that based on? Certainly not on first hand experience if the last time they were on a bike was ten years ago on holiday. That's an outrageously wrongheaded thing to state anywhere, never mind as an attempt at professional journalism.

Dublin is actually pretty good on cycle friendliness by any standard. It could do better, but there is a lot in it's favour:
- The Dublin Bike Scheme is one of the most successful bike share schemes anywhere
- The terrain is mostly flat
- The weather is not too extreme (rare enough to get caught in the rain on the bike never mind the reputation).
- Trucks are banned from the city
- 30kph speed limits in the city centre
- Generous Bike to Work scheme has increased cycling numbers
- Lots of friendly local bike shops
- There are lots of bike lanes. Some are alright.

A very poor effort by the writer. Just looking out the window would let them see the massively increased numbers of cyclists in the city. Dublin can't be too bad can it?

couple of things:
Trucks are not banned from the city.
In 2011 a study by Continental Tyres found 90% of drivers breaking the 30kph speed limit.
There is only one city bike lane AFAIK, along the north bank of the Grand canal.

The number of times every week I see cyclists in near misses where they have no idea what happened behind/beside them has made me understand people who say "I've been cycling X years and never have a problem."

I've a gopro for insurance and have passed on videos to Dublin Bus, Gardaí, An Post etc of v dangerous driving (which have been followed up) and recorded cars hitting or almost hitting cyclists frequently.

You spend any time on the roads here you can see why kids simply don't cycle in Ireland. I don't know if this is dangerisation but it's not merely anecdotal.

Danjamin1

I definitely think it's dangerization, I used to cycle to school as a teen & I've been cycling to work on & off for the last 5 years. Any accident I've ever had has been my own fault. I have had a couple near misses with buses & a van pulled across me at one point, but I don't think it's the extreme danger zone some people believe. I couldn't even estimate the number of journeys where I've had a very minor incident where someone cuts me off or overtakes too close, such is the infrequency. Saying that, you do see an awful lot of stupid things happening on the roads like people breaking red lights, speeding, not indicating, etc. and these things do lead to accidents on occasion but overall I don't think it's as dangerous as some people think to cycle on Irish roads.

check_six

poochiem wrote: »

You spend any time on the roads here you can see why kids simply don't cycle in Ireland. I don't know if this is dangerisation but it's not merely anecdotal.

When you are in Dublin do you feel like you are a "cyclist in a city that has to be one of the most cycle-unfriendly in the world"? I certainly don't, and I feel it is ridiculous to suggest so.

I listed a number of ways that Dublin is friendly towards cyclists. Dublin does not have any of the crazy anti-cycling laws that exist in places like certain parts of Australia. I would class that kind of setup as unfriendly to cycling.

CramCycle

poochiem wrote: »

couple of things:
Trucks are not banned from the city.
In 2011 a study by Continental Tyres found 90% of drivers breaking the 30kph speed limit.
There is only one city bike lane AFAIK, along the north bank of the Grand canal.

Which is poorly designed, with a few pinch points, significant time delays at certain junctions and while this is no excuse for breaking the rules, it seems to actively encourage rule breaking among cyclists (not an excuse and I don't do it myself).

The number of times every week I see cyclists in near misses where they have no idea what happened behind/beside them has made me understand people who say "I've been cycling X years and never have a problem."

I see it all the time but if Dublin were more cycling unfriendly, undoubtedly alot more of these would be actual collisions and not just near misses.

I've a gopro for insurance and have passed on videos to Dublin Bus, Gardaí, An Post etc of v dangerous driving (which have been followed up) and recorded cars hitting or almost hitting cyclists frequently.

I had a contour, I gave up, I had two people verbalise, quite calmly, as if there was nothing wrong, that they were attempting to hit me to show me I was in danger. The gardai or the companies involved have never acted upon this. This said one bus company did, and issued a warning to all drivers.

You spend any time on the roads here you can see why kids simply don't cycle in Ireland. I don't know if this is dangerisation but it's not merely anecdotal.

The only reason I could see for not letting a child cycle on irish roads is in case they thought that breaking the rules willy nilly was OK. I have found, hands up as a former law breaker galore, that the number of incidents I was involved in or nearly involved in has plummeted to nearly zero since I started following the rules, even when many would deem it unnecessary.

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I definitely think it's dangerization

It is, in my opinion.

beauf

check_six wrote: »

...This is my beef with the article. The rest of the article is not any good either...

I wonder which newspaper is the most cycle-unfriendly in the world? (The indo doesn't even manage to be that!).

Its not an article. Its just mindless drivel.

The indo IMO has a anti cycling agenda. They seem to thrown out of context anti cycling comments into unrelated articles for no reason at all.

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-newspaper-circulation-2284855-Aug2015/

tomasrojo

The Irish Times is a bit weird about everyday cycling too. Cast your mind a few months back to their editorial after the RSA's "Dublin is REALLY dangerous to cycle in" report.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/08/07/was-it-all-for-this-irish-times-cycling-deaths-coverage-ends-with-ranting-victim-blaming-editorial/

(Does the author of that article actually live in Sandyford/Dublin/Balally area? That's actually a perfectly ok neighbourhood for cycling, including with kids.)

buffalo

tomasrojo wrote: »

The Irish Times is a bit weird about everyday cycling too. Cast your mind a few months back to their editorial after the RSA's "Dublin is REALLY dangerous to cycle in" report.

I'm counting down the days until next week's special cycling supplement, in association with the RSA. One of the lines that stood out for me in the ad was 'cycling as a weekend hobby'.

Remember kids, bicycles should not be used for anything practical. Ever*.



*unless you're wearing hi-vis, a helmet, and just wheel the bike along on the footpath.

Carawaystick

poochiem wrote: »

There is only one city bike lane AFAIK, along the north bank of the Grand canal.

Stopped reading after this :rolleyes:

tomasrojo

buffalo wrote: »

I'm counting down the days until next week's special cycling supplement, in association with the RSA. One of the lines that stood out for me in the ad was 'cycling as a weekend hobby'.

Remember kids, bicycles should not be used for anything practical. Ever*.



*unless you're wearing hi-vis, a helmet, and just wheel the bike along on the footpath.

On the other hand, there's always a small bit of fun for the statistically minded, trying to retrace the steps that allowed them to portray a largely safe activity as the equivalent of flavouring your food with Polonium.

tomasrojo

buffalo wrote: »

*unless you're wearing hi-vis, a helmet, and just wheel the bike along on the footpath.

I can't wait for the next stage in the encumbering of cycling: phosphorescence and flags.

check_six

tomasrojo wrote: »

I can't wait for the next stage in the encumbering of cycling: phosphorescence and flags.

Phosphorescence? Hmm, that's interesting.
In the future, science will be able to somehow use the idea of phosphorescence in a compressed format where *something* will emit it's own light. It may even be possible to use some kind of crude electric circuit to power this contraption, and even mount the device on the bike.

After an arduous development path, I think we will be on the verge of doing away with traditional ideas of hi-vis and phosphorescence altogether.

I feel it will be a true revolution in hi-vis technology. Something we have *never* seen before. I will name them: "darkness-go-aways".

Prepare for the Future!

Also, with regard to flags, we all saw what happened to poor old Fabian Cancellara when he neglected to check if his flag was RSA approved before swinging it around in the velodrome in Roubaix last weekend:
https://twitter.com/philousports/status/719182469442990080

tomasrojo

check_six wrote: »

Phosphorescence? Hmm, that's interesting.
In the future, science will be able to somehow use the idea of phosphorescence in a compressed format where *something* will emit it's own light. It may even be possible to use some kind of crude electric circuit to power this contraption, and even mount the device on the bike.

Do you mean a sort of pre-phosphorescence, where a device can emit light, without light having first fallen on the device? What sorcery is this?

check_six wrote: »

Also, with regard to flags, we all saw what happened to poor old Fabian Cancellara when he neglected to check if his flag was RSA approved before swinging it around in the velodrome in Roubaix last weekend:
https://twitter.com/philousports/status/719182469442990080

That flag did not turn out to be a big plus.

beauf

tomasrojo wrote: »

On the other hand, there's always a small bit of fun for the statistically minded, trying to retrace the steps that allowed them to portray a largely safe activity as the equivalent of flavouring your food with Polonium.

The usual tactic is to group cyclists with other groups, or bomb disposal with a hammer etc. Then talk about this "vulnerable" group. But you can't blame the Investigative journalists as IMO they don't have any.

beauf

tomasrojo wrote: »

...That flag did not turn out to be a big plus.

Flag waving has a chequered past.