The Irish language is failing.

Adamocovic

Reiver wrote: »

People continue to speak Irish and English too.

I think he was just making the point that the revivals have been completely different.

True, the Scottish are trying a revival of their language at the momemnt, not a huge surge but some are choosing to study it (outside of school). It's not fully brought back into schools etc but there are places where people can go and learn it. Not big figures but still. I know a Scottish guy who is thinking of trying it.

Icepick

tipparetops wrote: »

How can a child in primary school decide what subject they study.
Deluded thinking.

Parents can choose. Let them choose between Spanish and Irish and we will see.

tipparetops

Icepick wrote: »

Parents can choose. Let them choose between Spanish and Irish and we will see.

pointless post of the week.
Our primary school teachers can barely speak Irish, where would get the spanish teachers from.

FloatingVoter

tipparetops wrote: »

pointless post of the week.
Our primary school teachers can barely speak Irish, where would get the spanish teachers from.

There's ten of them trying to bum a cigarette on Dame St. right now. Instead of running home to daddy in Barcelona with a conviction for shoplifting ... a job teaching Spanish would put a smile on his face.

briany

FloatingVoter wrote: »

There's ten of them trying to bum a cigarette on Dame St. right now. Instead of running home to daddy in Barcelona with a conviction for shoplifting ... a job teaching Spanish would put a smile on his face.

Some would say those Spanish teenagers are under qualified. :pac:

inocybe

tipparetops wrote: »

pointless post of the week.
Our primary school teachers can barely speak Irish, where would get the spanish teachers from.

When my son was in primary I was forced to pay for someone coming in and teaching Irish dancing, Spanish would have been much preferred.

tipparetops

inocybe wrote: »

When my son was in primary I was forced to pay for someone coming in and teaching Irish dancing, Spanish would have been much preferred.

this is about the language, learning Irish has nothing to do with you paying extra for dancing lessons on school time.

inocybe

tipparetops wrote: »

this is about the language, learning Irish has nothing to do with you paying extra for dancing lessons on school time.

You asked where we would get the Spanish teachers from! I gave you an example of how parents are already compelled to pay for extra people giving tuition. No reason in the world why it couldn't be sport through Spanish. In fact that's how I believe Irish should be taught, by fluent speakers brought in for a fun activity through Irish. Take it away from the regular classroom.

tipparetops

inocybe wrote: »

You asked where we would get the Spanish teachers from! I gave you an example of how parents are already compelled to pay for extra people giving tuition. No reason in the world why it couldn't be sport through Spanish. In fact that's how I believe Irish should be taught, by fluent speakers brought in for a fun activity through Irish. Take it away from the regular classroom.

how are you compelled to pay extra, you mean you decide as an adult to pay extra so your children can learn Irish dancing.
if you do not want to pay, dont.

inocybe

tipparetops wrote: »

how are you compelled to pay extra, you mean you decide as an adult to pay extra so your children can learn Irish dancing.
if you do not want to pay, dont.

Yeah right, at least 6 demand letters per year plus the entire parents council knowing who didn't pay. Plus the kids were compelled to do the wretched dancing whether the parents paid or not. I wasn't allowed to opt him out on the basis that it was PE which is compulsary.
Anyway, the point was that there are options to put language learning into the hands of people who are more competant than the general teachers.

Carlos Orange

tipparetops wrote: »

how are you compelled to pay extra, you mean you decide as an adult to pay extra so your children can learn Irish dancing.
if you do not want to pay, dont.

Why wouldn't they pay for it. Sure it is our national dance. It would be a shame if our kids couldn't do the Irish dance. Everyone else is doing it.

sdanseo

Ah, the monthly AH Irish langauge scandal debate nonsense thread.

The Irish langauge is part of our heritage and identity and the reason it's dying is because it's been taught horrendously badly at school level and people associate it with boredom and pointlessness.

It must be kept as the first language of the state and people should respect that. If we lose it we may as well rebrand ourselves as a different country and rewrite the constitution from scratch (not that I'd necessarily be against that anyway).

TLDR: Many Irish people hate Irish because they're too damn lazy to care about it. Grow up.

jackofalltrades

sdanseo wrote: »

The Irish langauge is part of our heritage and identity....

It's not part of my identity.
And given how rare it is that I hear it spoken, it's not part of the vast majorities identity either.

It must be kept as the first language of the state and people should respect that.

It's the first language of the state in name only.
And no we shouldn't just respect something because you say so.

If we lose it we may as well rebrand ourselves as a different country and rewrite the constitution from scratch (not that I'd necessarily be against that anyway).

Why?

TLDR: Many Irish people hate Irish because they're too damn lazy to care about it. Grow up.

You're contradicting yourself, is it because we're lazy or it's taught badly?

Shep_Dog

sdanseo wrote: »

Ah, the monthly AH Irish langauge scandal debate nonsense thread.

The Irish langauge is part of our heritage and identity and the reason it's dying is because it's been taught horrendously badly at school level and people associate it with boredom and pointlessness.

It must be kept as the first language of the state and people should respect that. If we lose it we may as well rebrand ourselves as a different country and rewrite the constitution from scratch (not that I'd necessarily be against that anyway).

this is a typiical Irish enthusiast standpoint, no new thinking, no consideration of challenging arguments, no respect shown to the wishes of the majority, mindless assertions that Irish must be our first language when it plainly is nothing of the sort. Total denial of reality.

The reason the language is dying in the Gaeltacht was reported as being due to the use of English by children of native Irish speakers. Nothing to do with bad teaching at all: just the incursion of the culture of the majority population.

briany

Shep_Dog wrote: »

this is a typiical Irish enthusiast standpoint, no new thinking, no consideration of challenging arguments, no respect shown to the wishes of the majority, mindless assertions that Irish must be our first language when it plainly is nothing of the sort. Total denial of reality.

The reason the language is dying in the Gaeltacht was reported as being due to the use of English by children of native Irish speakers. Nothing to do with bad teaching at all: just the incursion of the culture of the majority population.

There's nothing that can be done about the rolling tide of English. That it is basically the lingua franca of the world in business, in culture is a fact beyond the power of even the most radical Irish language to change, and because English is that powerful in the world there will always be an attraction to speaking for the social, economic and cultural opportunities it represents.

Iwasfrozen

tipparetops wrote: »

this is about the language, learning Irish has nothing to do with you paying extra for dancing lessons on school time.

This is about a language. One of many that you want to give preference to for no reason other than it's "ours" despite not being able to speak the bloody thing.

tipparetops

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

This is about a language. One of many that you want to give preference to for no reason other than it's "ours" despite not being able to speak the bloody thing.

It is called patriotism.
For what died the sons of Roisin.

pconn062

I totally understand the move towards an English speaking world, and why it happens. But do you not think it would be great to have our own, unique language that was only spoken on this Island and that everyone could speak? From a cultural perspective I think that would be amazing. I don't mean to suddenly drop English, it is an extremely important language but I would love if our country was bi-lingual, where people grew up learning Irish and English, with Irish being the predominant language of the Island. I envy our European cousins who have their own native tongues as their main language, but maybe I'm just an old romantic.

sdanseo

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It's not part of my identity.

It is if you're Irish. Identity, heritage.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself, is it because we're lazy or it's taught badly?

Both, the latter causing the former.

Iwasfrozen

tipparetops wrote: »

It is called patriotism.
For what died the sons of Roisin.

Roisin should have done a better job raising them.

jackofalltrades

sdanseo wrote: »

It is if you're Irish. Identity, heritage.

No it's not, I get to decide what defines my identity.

PopePalpatine

sdanseo wrote: »

It is if you're Irish. Identity, heritage.



Both, the latter causing the former.

I did HL Maths and OL Irish. I chose OL Irish out of pragmatism. If that's laziness to you, fine, you're welcome to your (poorly informed) opinion.

I really despise the Gaeliban's attempts at labelling 95% of this country as less than Irish. Funnily enough they often go hand in hand with the rosary bead-rattlers.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tipparetops wrote: »

It is called patriotism.
For what died the sons of Roisin.

Patriotism is for those who have no desire to think for themselves.

The sons of Roisin died trying to force their will on an entire nation of people. The church is dying for pretty much the same reason.

briany

Once you get to the sons of Roisin talk, you know your chances of an even debate on the language are similar to having an even debate on gun control in the states with a guy who just quotes the 2nd amendment.

dissed doc

briany wrote: »

There's nothing that can be done about the rolling tide of English. That it is basically the lingua franca of the world in business, in culture is a fact beyond the power of even the most radical Irish language to change, and because English is that powerful in the world there will always be an attraction to speaking for the social, economic and cultural opportunities it represents.

That is true, but most smaller european countries have their own language, and also English or German as second or third languages (e.g., Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, etc., ). Even Switzerland, which has Swiss German.

National identity in Ireland doesn't exist. Any attempts at promoting family, local communities, responsibility for paying taxes, etc., is ridiculed and scorned socially/publically. The lowest common denominator won. Learning Irish is seen as elitist and Irish people hate anyone doing well for themselves. Irish is no longer part of any national identity since around 30 years ago. National identity was thrown out, and the hiberno-phile media embraced West Britishness. IRA bad. Irish bad. Nationalism bad. It was an extreme knee jerk response to the Northern Ireland problems of the UK. Irish got associated with it.

Ireland is now just a "poor man's England". Arguments about English being the dominant world language are pointless when so many other similarly sized countries have their own language, and English as a 2nd, 3rd or 4th language, like Mandarin, or Arabic. Irish people want to be English, American or Australian, i.e., something successful they can attach themselves to. So culturally there is a mass "stamping" on Irish, as it is deemed inferior and a relic, like the Church.

English the lingua franca of business, only if the people negotiating do not speak each other's language. That is it. Chances are, that ego has lead many Anglophone monoglots presume English is de facto the business language everywhere. The reality is, you sell in the other person's language (and buy in your own). In South America or half of North America they are probably speaking Spanish, and if a monoglot English speaker is present, they will speak English. In China and Japan doing a trade deal, is it English? Or is the person doing the selling using fluent local translators?

English-only speakers grossly overestimate the use of English, in my opinion, due to the egocentric nature of having being given attention and "sold to" in English at all times, by virtue of the fact that they are unable to communicate in the other's language,.

Irish people have become good little English-o-bots. Couple of words to order Sangria or a kebab, everyone speaks English after all. And that is the exact reason in ireland, why Irish is ignored or pushed away. It is "foreign" to the new Irish culture which is in effect English.

Grayson

dissed doc wrote: »

That is true, but most smaller european countries have their own language, and also English or German as second or third languages (e.g., Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, etc., ). Even Switzerland, which has Swiss German.

National identity in Ireland doesn't exist. Any attempts at promoting family, local communities, responsibility for paying taxes, etc., is ridiculed and scorned socially/publically. The lowest common denominator won. Learning Irish is seen as elitist and Irish people hate anyone doing well for themselves. Irish is no longer part of any national identity since around 30 years ago. National identity was thrown out, and the hiberno-phile media embraced West Britishness. IRA bad. Irish bad. Nationalism bad. It was an extreme knee jerk response to the Northern Ireland problems of the UK. Irish got associated with it.

Ireland is now just a "poor man's England". Arguments about English being the dominant world language are pointless when so many other similarly sized countries have their own language, and English as a 2nd, 3rd or 4th language, like Mandarin, or Arabic. Irish people want to be English, American or Australian, i.e., something successful they can attach themselves to. So culturally there is a mass "stamping" on Irish, as it is deemed inferior and a relic, like the Church.

Jesus you have a very small opinion of this country. This county is far, far more than a language and if you can't see that you're blinded by your cultural bias.

briany

Grayson wrote: »

Jesus you have a very small opinion of this country. This county is far, far more than a language and if you can't see that you're blinded by your cultural bias.

Shur aren't those Arabs all the same? From away up Lebanon to Morocco, if they're speaking the same language then they must be culturally identical.

/s

Grayson

briany wrote: »

Shur aren't those Arabs all the same? From away up Lebanon to Morocco, if they're speaking the same language then they must be culturally identical.

/s

And the Colombians are just like the Spanish.

Iwasfrozen

Grayson wrote: »

And the Colombians are just like the Spanish.

Don't forget the "anam" those samba mad Brazilians lack. :rolleyes:

dissed doc

Grayson wrote: »

And the Colombians are just like the Spanish.

Language is a core way of societies to differentiate themselves, like it or not. E,.g., Dutch from Old low Saxon German. Every local dialect has more dialects within it. All are a way to belong to a group.

It is one aspect of a society, but an important one, as to creates a border and defence of a culture and community, from external and more dominating cultural spheres. Cultural diversity IS essential, right? Most small european countries have this very clearly protected and defined, as I mentioned, despite being right next to "big" countries.

There is a mass presence in Ireland of "anti Irishness" amongst native Irish people, as they view Irishness insofar as the language and society, as inferior (except when on holidays when looking for approval for being Irish and not English or American! perish the thought! but yes, speaking only that language). The irony is thick. The next step, promote diversity? but avoid the elephant in the room: eliminate diversity at all costs is the goal in ireland now. Eliminating a language from a society is no different from hunting a species to extinction.

As the decades roll by, Irish becomes nothing more than a dialect of English. It is what it is. trying to make people learn what they do not or cannot learn is pointless. It is simply easier for most Irish people to give up on their own country's language as it is too hard to learn. Motivation is not there. The response is business and economics, but ironically the more successful small countries hang very much onto their own language, or several languages, like Singapore or Switzerland.

Reiver

briany wrote: »

Shur aren't those Arabs all the same? From away up Lebanon to Morocco, if they're speaking the same language then they must be culturally identical.

/s

In fairness in Morocco they're more like Arabised Berbers since the Islamic conquest of north Africa. And tensions in Morocco and Algeria do tend to be quite heightened over the issue even today. Identity is quite important to them. Especially considering they associate Arabism with a violent Islamic agenda.

sdanseo

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I did HL Maths and OL Irish. I chose OL Irish out of pragmatism. If that's laziness to you, fine, you're welcome to your (poorly informed) opinion.

I really despise the Gaeliban's attempts at labelling 95% of this country as less than Irish. Funnily enough they often go hand in hand with the rosary bead-rattlers.

I did OL Irish because despite liking (never loving) it, I wasn't a super-uber gaelgóir and that was essentially the makeup of the honours class by the time the leaving came around. I dropped to OL before the Junior because I was afraid of failing it so I know where you're coming from.

The problem is that I then genuinely tried to raise my game and get back into the honours class, because I aced the ordinary Junior. But the OL teacher in 4th, 5th and 6th year was probably less enthused by the language than most of her students - simply put, none of them cared.

I would never force the language on anyone. People choose to study other European languages like German and French because they feel they'll be more useful and they're right, but I also found a lot of people genuinely loved studying those languages, mainly because teachers tend to be very enthusiastic. If we could get the same level of appreciation for Irish, it'd have a fighting chance.

It will always be a minority language in terms of a first language or even a language where people are fluent, it'd be lunacy to suggest otherwise. But let's just say I suggested going and destroying a stack of little-visited ringforts and tombs and neolithic monuments - people would say I was mad. Thing is, they're probably less relevant to our heritage than our language.

Iwasfrozen

dissed doc wrote: »

Language is a core way of societies to differentiate themselves, like it or not. E,.g., Dutch from Old low Saxon German. Every local dialect has more dialects within it. All are a way to belong to a group.

It is one aspect of a society, but an important one, as to creates a border and defence of a culture and community, from external and more dominating cultural spheres. Cultural diversity IS essential, right? Most small european countries have this very clearly protected and defined, as I mentioned, despite being right next to "big" countries.

There is a mass presence in Ireland of "anti Irishness" amongst native Irish people, as they view Irishness insofar as the language and society, as inferior (except when on holidays when looking for approval for being Irish and not English or American! perish the thought! but yes, speaking only that language). The irony is thick. The next step, promote diversity? but avoid the elephant in the room: eliminate diversity at all costs is the goal in ireland now. Eliminating a language from a society is no different from hunting a species to extinction.

As the decades roll by, Irish becomes nothing more than a dialect of English. It is what it is. trying to make people learn what they do not or cannot learn is pointless. It is simply easier for most Irish people to give up on their own country's language as it is too hard to learn. Motivation is not there. The response is business and economics, but ironically the more successful small countries hang very much onto their own language, or several languages, like Singapore or Switzerland.

That is just complete nonsense I haven't seen anything of the like.

briany

sdanseo wrote: »

It will always be a minority language in terms of a first language or even a language where people are fluent, it'd be lunacy to suggest otherwise. But let's just say I suggested going and destroying a stack of little-visited ringforts and tombs and neolithic monuments - people would say I was mad. Thing is, they're probably less relevant to our heritage than our language.

People would say you're mad. They'd also say you're mad if you suggested burning all texts related to Leinster Irish or banning Irish-speaking poets from publishing work. People were, however, happy enough to let many of our most famous monuments and landmarks fall into disrepair over the centuries until revived antiquarian interest and figuring out that they would attract tourist revenue. People have also been, it would seem, happy enough to let the Irish language slide into disrepair. Apathy toward heritage is not a particularly new phenomenon.

dlouth15

dissed doc wrote: »

The response is business and economics, but ironically the more successful small countries hang very much onto their own language, or several languages, like Singapore or Switzerland.

But look at Singapore. There is no Singaporean language. They speak mainly Malay (a language shared with a much larger neighbour), and Chinese and various languages spoken by minority communities. They don't have a language that is unique to them. Likewise Switzerland speaks German, French, Italian. If they have a unique identity, it is not one based on having "their own" language.

The problem with using Irish to try to forge a unique identity is that the continuity has been lost. Let us imagine that researchers found that several hundred years ago there was a language called "Swiss" that was the standard language in Switzerland (not true of course, but imagine it was so). Even if through monumental effort they managed to revive the language and have it generally spoken again, it would not be the same "Swiss" that was spoken hundreds of years ago. Speaking modern "Swiss" would not be an authentic expression of living Swiss culture because for that to be the case it would have had to have been in continuous use over the centuries to the present day, living and evolving.

Israel did revive a language successfully but that is because modern Israel is a new nation. There is no continuity between modern Hebrew and ancient Hebrew but likewise there is no continuity between modern Israel and the historical kingdoms that once constituted it. They had to forge a new identity from scratch.

What I think we fail to recognize is that English is now part of the culture of the country in the same way as the German language is part of Swiss culture. It is not someone else's language is being imposed on us (although historically it may have been imposed). Today, it is a language that we share with other countries and it is as much ours as theirs.

What then for the status of the Irish language? Well, I think the obsession with "status" is one of the problems. I think it would be nice if more people actually spoke the language in day to day transactions but the obsession with status is not merely irrelevant to getting the language more widely spoken but actually stands in the way of it.

For example, requiring Irish for entry to university creates a generation for whom Irish is not a language to be spoken but a burden. It insures that once they have learned the basic minimum to pass ordinary level Irish they will not merely forget the language but actively avoid it thereafter. This will be true for the majority.

Irish language activists seem to be obsessed with this notion of "status". Something other than revival of the language seems to be motivating them.

Every document needs to be translated into Irish even ones that are never read in any language. Every road sign must have an Irish equivalent even if it is a made up equivalent (e.g. a literal rendering of the original meaning of the name). None of this has any relevance to reviving Irish as a language. Nobody takes up Irish in order to read obscure EU documents in that language when there's a translation in English anyway. Yet it is seen as a victory for Irish language activists. Have they given up?

dlouth15

Just saw this looking at Wikipedia:

"Conradh na Gaeilge has expressed concern over the proposed introduction of postcodes, which, similarly, may use abbreviations based on English language place names, although people sending mail would still be able to use addresses in Irish. It has advocated that postcodes should either consist solely of numbers, as in many other bilingual countries, or be based on Irish language names instead.[28]"

This to my mind is an example of obsession with the status of the language rather than its health as a living language. A postcode is just a code. Even if it contained letters that were based on the historical names of places, it would have no effect whatsoever on the use of Irish in day-to-day communication.

Get the language in daily use first. Then, if successful, change the postcodes to reflect the new reality rather than some desired past.

Tony Beetroot

The Irish language is like a mixo rabbit

LordSutch

So when "and why" was Irish introduced into our education system?

Answering this^ might get us closer to why we don't speak it.

Yes there will always be pockets of the population who can speak it, and I dare say that it will always remain as our "1st National language" thereby always being compulsory in school, and yes there will always be glimmers of hope by some that it might miraculously take off and be spoken as a widespread National language!

So here we are nearly 100 years after independence (1922) and the introduction of Irish as a compulsory subject in school, yet it still hasn't been grasped & embraced by successive generations of Irish people!

since independence.

dr.fuzzenstein

It would have to go further than Gael School. All creches, pre-schools, primary schools, schools, colleges and universities should teach exclusively through Irish. All English lessons to be replaced by Irish. All government department face to face transactions, phone interactions and websites should be Irish only. This will include on-street personnel like the Gardai, customs, water department, right down to the street sweepers. All internal communication will be in Irish only. All state controlled TV and radio, the same. Surely RTE could be made to comply if they want their license fees. All staff in hospitals should communicate in Irish, except maybe in case of emergencies, then a translator should be made available. All Dail and parliament business, Irish only.
The above can be done immediately, since these are all government controlled outlets. Snapping the private sector into line would take a bit longer and cost a bit more, but with heavy incentives for all Irish content and hefty taxes for English language content, they could be whipped into shape. All English media content could finally be outlawed or heavily fined, Sky and other foreign language satellite providers would have to be made illegal, but Chorus and Saorview should be easily brought in line. The internet is a bit more tricky, but if the Chinese can do it, so can we. Or we could go for an "Intra Web", a self-contained Irish only network, foreign content could be requested, but those sites would have to be translated first. Google translate would be one way into Irish only only.
Otherwise we're just not taking this serious.
Of course it will become very difficult for foreigners to live and work here, especially if they fail the compulsory Irish exam they will have to pass on entry to the country in order to live and work here and foreign companies could face some challenges when interacting with the state, but all that can be overcome, with ever increasing propagation of the language.

Adamocovic

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It would have to go further than Gael School. All creches, pre-schools, primary schools, schools, colleges and universities should teach exclusively through Irish. All English lessons to be replaced by Irish. All government department face to face transactions, phone interactions and websites should be Irish only. This will include on-street personnel like the Gardai, customs, water department, right down to the street sweepers. All internal communication will be in Irish only. All state controlled TV and radio, the same. Surely RTE could be made to comply if they want their license fees. All staff in hospitals should communicate in Irish, except maybe in case of emergencies, then a translator should be made available. All Dail and parliament business, Irish only.
The above can be done immediately, since these are all government controlled outlets. Snapping the private sector into line would take a bit longer and cost a bit more, but with heavy incentives for all Irish content and hefty taxes for English language content, they could be whipped into shape. All English media content could finally be outlawed or heavily fined, Sky and other foreign language satellite providers would have to be made illegal, but Chorus and Saorview should be easily brought in line. The internet is a bit more tricky, but if the Chinese can do it, so can we. Or we could go for an "Intra Web", a self-contained Irish only network, foreign content could be requested, but those sites would have to be translated first. Google translate would be one way into Irish only only.
Otherwise we're just not taking this serious.
Of course it will become very difficult for foreigners to live and work here, especially if they fail the compulsory Irish exam they will have to pass on entry to the country in order to live and work here and foreign companies could face some challenges when interacting with the state, but all that can be overcome, with ever increasing propagation of the language.

I hope this is sarcastic ha

Going Strong

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That is just complete nonsense I haven't seen anything of the like.

How dare you question his in-depth research just like that. Sure hasn't he travelled the length and breadth of the country asking everyone their opinion on what they feel makes one 'Irish'. Granted, he never asked me but I'm sure that's just a minor oversight on his part and he'll be back to canvass my opinion soon enough.

Adamocovic

At the end of the day some people want to learn it, others don't. It's clear even from here.

The main thing , like stated a lot already, is making the language more practical. Teaching it for daily use rather than for writing reports on old irish books or poems. I know some would argue "there is no use for it in day to day living" which may be true in terms of work etc but if schools focused on teaching how to add it in when chatting it would be more succesful, just little things like talking about a match, something that happened, a film, etc. It is very handy abroad when you want to say something in private to someone who also knows it.

I know every now and then I use a sentence or two in conversation. Frankly most people don't like learning about poems and writing about books in English in school and thats a language we speak all the time, so a lot lose interest trying to do those things in a second language.

I'm not saying get rid of them, but maybe move the emphasis off of it, a large amount of teaching irish revolves around these things.

I still am under the opinion it wont improve until the teaching structure is revamped.

And I know some people argue there is no need for it and don't see it as a big thing to do with our cultural,which is a completely acceptable view, but a lot of people value it as they see it as uniquely Irish. I think the main thing is accepting that people have different opinions on it, it should not be compulsory for all of secondary school in my view, but should be in primary like the other subjects, just to get a feeling on whether the student wants to do it. I think teaching it also in the first year of secondary school (making it compulsory)and then making it an option like other subjects and languages would be beneficial, the people who have no interest don't have to learn it and then there is more time spent on teaching it to people who are interested.

Grayson

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It would have to go further than Gael School. All creches, pre-schools, primary schools, schools, colleges and universities should teach exclusively through Irish. All English lessons to be replaced by Irish. All government department face to face transactions, phone interactions and websites should be Irish only. This will include on-street personnel like the Gardai, customs, water department, right down to the street sweepers. All internal communication will be in Irish only. All state controlled TV and radio, the same. Surely RTE could be made to comply if they want their license fees. All staff in hospitals should communicate in Irish, except maybe in case of emergencies, then a translator should be made available. All Dail and parliament business, Irish only.
The above can be done immediately, since these are all government controlled outlets. Snapping the private sector into line would take a bit longer and cost a bit more, but with heavy incentives for all Irish content and hefty taxes for English language content, they could be whipped into shape. All English media content could finally be outlawed or heavily fined, Sky and other foreign language satellite providers would have to be made illegal, but Chorus and Saorview should be easily brought in line. The internet is a bit more tricky, but if the Chinese can do it, so can we. Or we could go for an "Intra Web", a self-contained Irish only network, foreign content could be requested, but those sites would have to be translated first. Google translate would be one way into Irish only only.
Otherwise we're just not taking this serious.
Of course it will become very difficult for foreigners to live and work here, especially if they fail the compulsory Irish exam they will have to pass on entry to the country in order to live and work here and foreign companies could face some challenges when interacting with the state, but all that can be overcome, with ever increasing propagation of the language.

I think someone mentioned this in the thread already but we have two official languages in our constitution. If you want to deny services in English then you'd need a referendum. Good luck with trying to get 50% of the people in the country to vote out the only language they speak

Adamocovic

Grayson wrote: »

I think someone mentioned this in the thread already but we have two official languages in our constitution. If you want to deny services in English then you'd need a referendum. Good luck with trying to get 50% of the people in the country to vote out the only language they speak

Just do the vote in Irish and maybe some will make the mistake of voting out English :pac:

corkonion

Leaving aside sentiment, there really is no practical use for Irish anymore. The 2011 Census, released by the Central Statistics Office Ireland (CSO), showed that Irish is only the third most spoken language in the country, after English and Polish. We are an english speaking country and using many hours of valuable teaching time on Irish does not add much to an overall education (same with religion). While much is made of our corporation rate tax structure for attracting foreign investment, we should not underrate the value of being an english speaking country. There are many Gael scoil schools there for those with a passion for Irish, but I believe that Irish should not be obligatory after national school.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That is just complete nonsense I haven't seen anything of the like.

That is massively unfair - you see it every time there's an Irish langauge thread on here!

Un Croissant

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It would have to go further than Gael School. All creches, pre-schools, primary schools, schools, colleges and universities should teach exclusively through Irish. All English lessons to be replaced by Irish. All government department face to face transactions, phone interactions and websites should be Irish only. This will include on-street personnel like the Gardai, customs, water department, right down to the street sweepers. All internal communication will be in Irish only. All state controlled TV and radio, the same. Surely RTE could be made to comply if they want their license fees. All staff in hospitals should communicate in Irish, except maybe in case of emergencies, then a translator should be made available. All Dail and parliament business, Irish only.
The above can be done immediately, since these are all government controlled outlets. Snapping the private sector into line would take a bit longer and cost a bit more, but with heavy incentives for all Irish content and hefty taxes for English language content, they could be whipped into shape. All English media content could finally be outlawed or heavily fined, Sky and other foreign language satellite providers would have to be made illegal, but Chorus and Saorview should be easily brought in line. The internet is a bit more tricky, but if the Chinese can do it, so can we. Or we could go for an "Intra Web", a self-contained Irish only network, foreign content could be requested, but those sites would have to be translated first. Google translate would be one way into Irish only only.
Otherwise we're just not taking this serious.
Of course it will become very difficult for foreigners to live and work here, especially if they fail the compulsory Irish exam they will have to pass on entry to the country in order to live and work here and foreign companies could face some challenges when interacting with the state, but all that can be overcome, with ever increasing propagation of the language.

**** me. Difficult for foreigners to work here, and everyone else.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Un Croissant wrote: »

**** me. Difficult for foreigners to work here, and everyone else.

Probably part of the appeal of the idea. I'm also of the he's-being-sarcastic opinion, but it can be hard to tell sometimes.

Reiver

http://www.thejournal.ie/kate-shannon-ware-kerry-ireland-deportation-irish-speaking-children-2136598-Jun2015/

Irish speaking kids being deported is currently popular in the Journal.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Reiver wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/kate-shannon-ware-kerry-ireland-deportation-irish-speaking-children-2136598-Jun2015/

Irish speaking kids being deported is currently popular in the Journal.

Irrelevant to discussion.