The Irish language is failing.

LordSutch

It has been mentioned many times how well some of our newcomers have done in Irish!

Poles, Chinese, Africans many of whom seem to excel in learning Irish, presumably because they and their families have no history of 'hang ups' regarding the force feeding in previous generations since the 1920s.

recipio

Many leaving cert students are denied the right to do two or more continental languages due to 'scheduling' or 'resource ' issues - yet time and resources are available for Irish. As its just a metaphor for the DeValera-esque agenda forced on us by a gutless series of Governments no wonder resentment builds up ?

whisky_galore

LordSutch wrote: »

It has been mentioned many times how well some of our newcomers have done in Irish!

Poles, Chinese, Africans many of whom seem to excel in learning Irish, presumably because they and their families have no history of 'hang ups' regarding the force feeding in previous generations since the 1920s.

Fair enough, unless they start speaking it long after the exams are done and dusted, it does not equal a revival of any sort.

There was a recent survey of the differing attitudes to Irish South vs North, the Northern people learnt the language for enjoyment and in the main their Southern counterparts learnt it to jump through hoops to pass exams.

Paramite Pie

whisky_galore wrote: »

Fair enough, unless they start speaking it long after the exams are done and dusted, it does not equal a revival of any sort.

Well a few years ago I often encountered people saying immigrants(/children) would be alienated by their lack of Irish (many don't have to learn it) by those who heavily equate the language with nationality. It seems some people will try anything to drop the subject in schools altogether, so it's nice to see so many do well in it.

whisky_galore wrote: »

There was a recent survey of the differing attitudes to Irish South vs North, the Northern people learnt the language for enjoyment and in the main their Southern counterparts learnt it to jump through hoops to pass exams.

Irish shouldn't be a mandatory "academic" subject, but should be spoken in Primary School with many games and school activities conducted in Irish. TEFL teachers teach English with many props and it's easier to remember words when you can both see and hold an object in your hand.

Irish Students would become so much more proficient & confident with these methods. Teach a language, not a subject. Leave the 16th century poetry as a separate Advanced Irish subject.

Dan_Solo

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Irish shouldn't be a mandatory "academic" subject, but should be spoken in Primary School with many games and school activities conducted in Irish. TEFL teachers teach English with many props and it's easier to remember words when you can both see and hold an object in your hand.

Irish Students would become so much more proficient & confident with these methods. Teach a language, not a subject. Leave the 16th century poetry as a separate Advanced Irish subject.

But that's still a so what?
The problem isn't the way it's taught. Plenty of people come out of the Irish education system with a decent standard of Irish.
They just don't want to ever use it again. And why would they when they have another language that works 100% of the time, to a higher level and with almost all foreigners?

the_monkey

the_monkey wrote: »

I'm not anti Irish...

That's good to know. Curiously, somebody using your pseudonym here a mere four months ago had this to say about Irish: "IRish language will soon be dead anyway - thank Christ!!" :rolleyes:

briany

Dan_Solo wrote: »

But that's still a so what?
The problem isn't the way it's taught. Plenty of people come out of the Irish education system with a decent standard of Irish.
They just don't want to ever use it again. And why would they when they have another language that works 100% of the time, to a higher level and with almost all foreigners?

Yeah, the problem of Irish is never been how important it is in the education system, it's always been its declining importance outside the education system. Fix that, and you will see Irish LC results go up a letter or two on average. How someone would fix that, though, I have never seen a good answer for.

recipio

recipio wrote: »

It is in fact part of a political agenda launched at the foundation of the State and perpetuated by people who happen to be good enough at it to get a college degree. I was taught by Christian Brothers who themselves were second and third sons off farms who had 'Republican ' sympathies. It is part of a pan nationalist agenda which is slowly receeding, but not fast enough.

So many worn, cliched, trite scapegoating anti-Irish prejudices wrapped up in a single post - I'm surprised you never mentioned Dev signing the condolences.

So, just how small were these farms with "republican sympathies"? Let us guess: the big farmers like John Bruton with Redmondite and British imperialist sympathies are culturally and politically perfectly acceptable? The pro-British shopkeepers and their greasy tills in Dublin were culturally and politically OK? The Home Rule politicians in Dublin who personally owned enormous slums across the city were culturally and politically fine? It's the poor and radical, the republicans from Liam Mellows in Dublin to Peadar O'Donnell in Donegal, who are to be hated when you rant about the supposed evils of Irish nationalists and republicans? Bingo.

Give me any of the radical Irish socialist republicans of the 20th century to the snivelling, wannabe English counter-revolutionaries of the Home Rule/Cumann na nGaedhael/Fine Gael party - "I am an Irishman second, I am a Catholic first" of the Costello/Bruton types - and their equally anti-Irish and pro-British conservatives in the Roman Catholic church. The outstanding impression from the latter two is that intellectually they have never been committed to the idea of an independent Ireland. That tradition continues in the utterances of John Bruton and Brian Hayes.

Without the actual republicans pushing things, the anti-Irish culture crowd you prefer (who are very, very much nationalist - just of the British variety known as Redmondite/unionist/imperialist) would still be following the John Redmond tradition of going to Westminster and fattening themselves on a diet of arselicking, sycophancy, corruption, cheering on supremacist warmongering and class hatred. It's no coincidence that big Meath farmer and apologist for empire John Bruton idolises John Redmond, a man whose "democratic mandate" and commitment to ending the abject poverty in Irish cities was very threadbare indeed.

Lastly, it's also news to know your Irish-hating, republican-hating friends have no "political agendas", from glorifying British imperialist warmongering with your obsessive "commemorations" to demonising anything that is culturally Irish about Ireland. As for "pan-nationalist agendas", your beloved British political culture in 2015 is one massive pan-imperialist agenda still, with its incessant war glorification orgies, topped off with a medieval cult of royalism saturating an ineffably horrendous tabloid culture and a seventeenth-century anti-Catholicism permeating the institutions of power.

For all its faults, I'd rather live in this Ireland any day than the acquiescent, Irish culture hating, British imperialist one you and your fellow travellers would have liked to keep us in back in 1916-1921.

An Ciarraioch

That said, the language was ironically stronger in communities then precisely because the culture was hated, it's as if there was an instinctive relaxation after, with the assumption that freedom automatically meant preservation.

An Ciarraioch

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

That said, the language was ironically stronger in communities then precisely because the culture was hated, it's as if there was an instinctive relaxation after, with the assumption that freedom automatically meant preservation.

I wouldn't agree with this at all, although I accept it is a fashionable interpretation. The 19th century was, above all else, the century of cultural/intellectual colonisation of the Irish. No century was worse than it. The language was indeed stronger, but that was because the cultural colonisation really got into mode only following the Act of Union, specifically following the deal that was Catholic Emancipation in 1828/29 where anglicisation was the prerequisite for the native, increasingly Romanised Catholics to attain power in the British imperialist state in Ireland. The hatred, abject poverty and discrimination led to an exodus from the Irish cultural world to that of the English. It did not lead to a strengthening of that world, unfortunately. In imperial stereotypes, the Irish were the apes, the English the civilised Teutons - even Irish people tend to forget how deeply hated the culturally Irish were. For Irish people in the 19th century, the Roman Catholic church was the sole evidence they had that they were civilised Europeans, so they Romanised their church via ultramontanism to show their "civilisation". Anglicisation and Romanisation: the two major symptoms of the Irish self-hatred.

In a state absolutely dominated by the British (who badly needed cannonfodder for their military), Irish was poverty because now the natives were told that if they became culturally more like the English, they'd get some of the breadcrumbs of Empire. As Daniel O'Connell infamously, but felicitously, put it in 1832: "The people of Ireland are ready to become a portion of the Empire, provided they be made so in reality and not in name alone; they are ready to become a kind of West Briton if made so in benefits and justice; but if not, we are Irishmen again."

Ave Sodalis

I've always thought, and still stand by it, that the best way to bring back Irish is by firstly, concentrating on speaking it for primary school with an introduction to writing and reading it in the later years (4th, 5th, and 6th class). However keeping the focus on learning to speak it in primary school. The first 3 years of secondary school should be a high focus on learning the more nitty, gritty bit of reading and writing it. Then for Leaving Cert, have it optional but do similar as with maths and have extra points awarded to those who take it on.

I think it can still be saved, but it will take work and will involve the correct and enjoyable introduction of it in primary school. I mean, when you learn to speak your primary language as a child, you learn to speak it first. I think the learning of the Irish language should be based on a model. Leave the poetry and stuff out of it for school and concentrate on the practical side of the language.

It is taught terribly. Now I love Irish and would love to speak it fluently. I think it's a stunning language but when you only learn a month before the Leaving Cert that Irish can be masculine and feminine like French (something you learn the first day of French class), there isn't really much hope of the current education system being successfully.

inocybe

sup_dude wrote: »

I've always thought, and still stand by it, that the best way to bring back Irish is by firstly, concentrating on speaking it for primary school with an introduction to writing and reading it in the later years (4th, 5th, and 6th class). However keeping the focus on learning to speak it in primary school. The first 3 years of secondary school should be a high focus on learning the more nitty, gritty bit of reading and writing it. Then for Leaving Cert, have it optional but do similar as with maths and have extra points awarded to those who take it on.

I think it can still be saved, but it will take work and will involve the correct and enjoyable introduction of it in primary school. I mean, when you learn to speak your primary language as a child, you learn to speak it first. I think the learning of the Irish language should be based on a model. Leave the poetry and stuff out of it for school and concentrate on the practical side of the language.

It is taught terribly. Now I love Irish and would love to speak it fluently. I think it's a stunning language but when you only learn a month before the Leaving Cert that Irish can be masculine and feminine like French (something you learn the first day of French class), there isn't really much hope of the current education system being successfully.

Problem there is that you'd need primary school teachers that can actually speak the language - it's much easier to teach kids to fill in workbooks. Best of all would be to relieve teachers of Irish altogether and bring in enthusiastic people to have a bit of fun with the kids while they speak it.

LordSutch

I say Furaranach old bean, you really are on fire tonight, smoke rising from your Gaelic keyboard, is it?

I never thought such temperatures could be raised by defending and just discussing the failing Irish language. You really should loosen up my man or you'll have a seizure . . . . .

It's like you're getting it all out, you're excising a giant boil with loads of puss coming out!

Those bloody British/English/Unionist swine, Grrrrrrrrrr

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

So many worn, cliched, trite scapegoating anti-Irish prejudices wrapped up in a single post - I'm surprised you never mentioned Dev signing the condolences.

So, just how small were these farms with "republican sympathies"? Let us guess: the big farmers like John Bruton with Redmondite and British imperialist sympathies are culturally and politically perfectly acceptable? The pro-British shopkeepers and their greasy tills in Dublin were culturally and politically OK? The Home Rule politicians in Dublin who personally owned enormous slums across the city were culturally and politically fine? It's the poor and radical, the republicans from Liam Mellows in Dublin to Peadar O'Donnell in Donegal, who are to be hated when you rant about the supposed evils of Irish nationalists and republicans? Bingo.

Give me any of the radical Irish socialist republicans of the 20th century to the snivelling, wannabe English counter-revolutionaries of the Home Rule/Cumann na nGaedhael/Fine Gael party - "I am an Irishman second, I am a Catholic first" of the Costello/Bruton types - and their equally anti-Irish and pro-British conservatives in the Roman Catholic church. The outstanding impression from the latter two is that intellectually they have never been committed to the idea of an independent Ireland. That tradition continues in the utterances of John Bruton and Brian Hayes.

Ta for the history lesson, but what does this have to do with the falling of the Irish language in 21st century Ireland?

Without the actual republicans pushing things, the anti-Irish culture crowd you prefer (who are very, very much nationalist - just of the British variety known as Redmondite/unionist/imperialist) would still be following the John Redmond tradition of going to Westminster and fattening themselves on a diet of arselicking, sycophancy, corruption, cheering on supremacist warmongering and class hatred. It's no coincidence that big Meath farmer and apologist for empire John Bruton idolises John Redmond, a man whose "democratic mandate" and commitment to ending the abject poverty in Irish cities was very threadbare indeed.

He said Christian Brothers - how did we get from that to some kind of veiled Jackeen labeling?

Lastly, it's also news to know your Irish-hating, republican-hating friends have no "political agendas", from glorifying British imperialist warmongering with your obsessive "commemorations" to demonising anything that is culturally Irish about Ireland. As for "pan-nationalist agendas", your beloved British political culture in 2015 is one massive pan-imperialist agenda still, with its incessant war glorification orgies, topped off with a medieval cult of royalism saturating an ineffably horrendous tabloid culture and a seventeenth-century anti-Catholicism permeating the institutions of power.

For all its faults, I'd rather live in this Ireland any day than the acquiescent, Irish culture hating, British imperialist one you and your fellow travellers would have liked to keep us in back in 1916-1921.

Irish mean Republican hating now does it?

We're talkign about a lanaguage. We learn it at school and form an opinion far earlier than we learn about political history.

I was five or six years old when I relaised I didn't like the Irish language, partially because everyone already spoke a lanaguge I understood partly because of an overly-physical head-teacher who hated the fact that I dislike Irish but was quite good at every other subjects. I knew nothing about republicanism or CnaG or whatevefr at this point. Was I an Irish-hater (as in Irish the langauge)? Yes. Irish-hater (as in the attribute)? Not possible to answer. A repblican hater? At six? Come on!


This is a very common experience and opinion amonst people who would have been a child in the late 70s/early 80s like it or not. School was sometimes a brutal place if you didn't like Irish, like it or not, and it wasn't the pupil's fault.

whisky_galore

Wow, just.... wow.

The outrage is strong in this one.

kowloon

Paramite Pie wrote: »

...
Irish shouldn't be a mandatory "academic" subject, but should be spoken in Primary School with many games and school activities conducted in Irish. TEFL teachers teach English with many props and it's easier to remember words when you can both see and hold an object in your hand.

Irish Students would become so much more proficient & confident with these methods. Teach a language, not a subject. Leave the 16th century poetry as a separate Advanced Irish subject.

This is the ideal solution. I also think English, as it is now, should be an optional subject.

Dan_Solo

sup_dude wrote: »

I've always thought, and still stand by it, that the best way to bring back Irish is by firstly, concentrating on speaking it for primary school with an introduction to writing and reading it in the later years (4th, 5th, and 6th class). However keeping the focus on learning to speak it in primary school. The first 3 years of secondary school should be a high focus on learning the more nitty, gritty bit of reading and writing it. Then for Leaving Cert, have it optional but do similar as with maths and have extra points awarded to those who take it on.

I hate to break this to you but that's exactly how Gaelscoils work and nobody from those schools wants to speak Irish when they grow up. Why would they? English is more widely understood and to a more advanced level by pretty much 100% of the population of Ireland, not to mention Irish has 0% utility with foreigners, unlike English.
Why would even fluent Irish speakers want to speak Irish after school? Are you assuming they hate their more useful English for some reason?

Dan_Solo

inocybe wrote: »

Problem there is that you'd need primary school teachers that can actually speak the language - it's much easier to teach kids to fill in workbooks. Best of all would be to relieve teachers of Irish altogether and bring in enthusiastic people to have a bit of fun with the kids while they speak it.

No. Just no.
Are you denying that at the time of leaving school nearly everybody has a least a basic level of Irish? And then roughly 0% of them use it.
Why is that?

whisky_galore

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Irish shouldn't be a mandatory "academic" subject

Making it optional? Not going to happen. Ever. Too much of a political football. Special interest and lobby groups; C Na G and similar quangoes/agencies, teachers, Gaeltacht dwellers esp those lodging kids learning the language, would scream blue murder.

Dan_Solo

whisky_galore wrote: »

Making it optional? Not going to happen. Ever. Too much of a political football. Special interest and lobby groups; C Na G and similar quangoes/agencies, teachers, Gaeltacht dwellers esp those lodging kids learning the language, would scream blue murder.

Irish is like a lot of other stuff isn't it, a great idea as long as somebody else is doing the spadework.

whisky_galore

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Irish is like a lot of other stuff isn't it, a great idea as long as somebody else is doing the spadework.

A majority of Irish people have a positive attitude to the language, in that they think it's 'nice' and it would be an awful shame if it was allowed to decline. At the same time they couldn't be ars*d learning it properly or speaking it.

That is the conundrum.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Irish is like a lot of other stuff isn't it, a great idea as long as somebody else is doing the spadework.

whisky_galore wrote: »

A majority of Irish people have a positive attitude to the language, in that they think it's 'nice' and it would be an awful shame if it was allowed to decline. At the same time they couldn't be ars*d learning it properly or speaking it.

That is the conundrum.

Always amazes me how any people want compulsory Irish for kids, but are not willing to do an evening course in it themselves...

my teapot is orange

There will come a point where we have to abandon it imo. Irish schools currently perform well internationally, but as the world gets more and more competitive, with education systems in developing countries and developed countries getting better and better, there will be a time when if we want our kids to be as skilled as any others for the global workforce, we can't make them waste an hour a day on something irrelevant.

kowloon

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Always amazes me how any people want compulsory Irish for kids, but are not willing to do an evening course in it themselves...

The 'I suffered it as a kid so everyone else should too!' crowd?

inocybe

Dan_Solo wrote: »

No. Just no.
Are you denying that at the time of leaving school nearly everybody has a least a basic level of Irish? And then roughly 0% of them use it.
Why is that?

I don't see how your reply was relevant to mine, but anyhoo... I can only respond why I don't use Irish
1. I passed the leaving cert but actually can't speak a sentence.
but more importantly
2. Because it was compulsary and was crammed down my throat, I hate it. I spent most of secondary school vowing that once I was out I would never ever have anything to do with it.

mickydoomsux

I don't use it because it is utterly redundant, obsolete and completely useless in modern Irish life.

Speak/teach it at home if you want but remove it from schools, official documents, road signs etc. because it is a waste of time and money to appease a vocal minority who will never be happy because their dream of a population fluent in Irish will never happen because it is a dead language that normal people don't care about in the slightest.

Dan_Solo

inocybe wrote: »

I don't see how your reply was relevant to mine, but anyhoo... I can only respond why I don't use Irish
1. I passed the leaving cert but actually can't speak a sentence.
but more importantly
2. Because it was compulsary and was crammed down my throat, I hate it. I spent most of secondary school vowing that once I was out I would never ever have anything to do with it.

1. You could when you finished your LC. Everybody could. The fact you can't speak it now is because you have no need to so you've forgotten every single word.
2. This isn't a reason to not speak Irish TBH. You can't blame the language itself for it being compulsory. It being useless is a good reason not to learn or speak it however.

whisky_galore

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Always amazes me how any people want compulsory Irish for kids, but are not willing to do an evening course in it themselves...

Yes. "Someone should do something" comes to mind.

josephryan1989

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I don't use it because it is utterly redundant, obsolete and completely useless in modern Irish life.

Speak/teach it at home if you want but remove it from schools, official documents, road signs etc. because it is a waste of time and money to appease a vocal minority who will never be happy because their dream of a population fluent in Irish will never happen because it is a dead language that normal people don't care about in the slightest.

When the Shinners get into government they will make you care or else.

mickydoomsux

josephryan1989 wrote: »

When the Shinners get into government they will make you care or else.

Even the English on road signs will be in Irish then.

josephryan1989

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Even the English on road signs will be in Irish then.

Kids will have to learn Bobby Sands poetry as gaeilge.

inocybe

Dan_Solo wrote: »

1. You could when you finished your LC. Everybody could. The fact you can't speak it now is because you have no need to so you've forgotten every single word.
2. This isn't a reason to not speak Irish TBH. You can't blame the language itself for it being compulsory. It being useless is a good reason not to learn or speak it however.

Haha you're completely wrong.
1.When I did my LC I could not string together a spoken sentence, you can't tell me it isn't true - I was there 😄
2. You can't speak for me, you may find it illogical, but it's an emotional response and it is THE reason I won't even hear the language. I don't care about the usefulness or not.

FunLover18

whisky_galore wrote:

A majority of Irish people have a positive attitude to the language, in that they think it's 'nice' and it would be an awful shame if it was allowed to decline. At the same time they couldn't be ars*d learning it properly or speaking it.

Having a positive attitude is not the same as wanting to learn and speak the language. I have a positive attitude towards Irish in that I don't hate it, I appreciate it's a part of our culture and have no problem with other people CHOOSING to learn and speak which optional Irish would allow them to do but I have no desire to do so myself.

Dughorm

FunLover18 wrote: »

Having a positive attitude is not the same as wanting to learn and speak the language. I have a positive attitude towards Irish in that I don't hate it, I appreciate it's a part of our culture and have no problem with other people CHOOSING to learn and speak which optional Irish would allow them to do but I have no desire to do so myself.

Have you a positive attitude towards Shakespeare or Calculus? Would you prefer that schools provide people a choice to learn it?

Dughorm

inocybe wrote: »

Haha you're completely wrong.
1.When I did my LC I could not string together a spoken sentence, you can't tell me it isn't true - I was there 😄
2. You can't speak for me, you may find it illogical, but it's an emotional response and it is THE reason I won't even hear the language. I don't care about the usefulness or not.

Based on this year's leaving cert results it looks like Irish could be a lot of people's best subject - practically no one is failing higher level. If it were made optional many people may lose out on easy points by not choosing it...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dughorm wrote: »

Have you a positive attitude towards Shakespeare or Calculus? Would you prefer that schools provide people a choice to learn it?

Shakespeaere, yes, but I don't think that means EVERYONE should have to learn it.

RandomName2

Un Croissant wrote: »

A hand of friendship was extended to the Irish language. To help in survive and grow, but Eoghan slaps it away.

"I don't need your money or your pity"
"Usually when people say that they give the money back"
"I do what now?"
"Yoink!"

https://www.facebook.com/SimpsonsQuotesThatNobodyGetsAnymore

DyldeBrill

Dan_Solo wrote: »

But that's still a so what?
The problem isn't the way it's taught. Plenty of people come out of the Irish education system with a decent standard of Irish.
They just don't want to ever use it again. And why would they when they have another language that works 100% of the time, to a higher level and with almost all foreigners?

I see plenty of people using it after finishing secondary school. So don't know about that. Although there isn't a huge market, the work is certainly there. Why wouldn't they speak both? Whats wrong with wanting to speak it. If they enjoy conversing through Irish then that's their choice but you can't make an outrageous statement like you have saying that they will never want to speak the language again.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I hate to break this to you but that's exactly how Gaelscoils work and nobody from those schools wants to speak Irish when they grow up. Why would they? English is more widely understood and to a more advanced level by pretty much 100% of the population of Ireland, not to mention Irish has 0% utility with foreigners, unlike English.
Why would even fluent Irish speakers want to speak Irish after school? Are you assuming they hate their more useful English for some reason?

I'm not sure if you were in a Gaelscoil or not but I certainly didn't get that impression in the Gaelscoil I was in. Of course there are people that won't but the majority of the people I finished school with still speak and use the language. Of course its important to learn other languages, but the way you're going about your whole argument is completely wrong in my eyes. I found that learning irish at a young age made it easier for me topick up other languages such as French and German in school.

mickydoomsux

DyldeBrill wrote: »

... the Gaelscoil I was in......

Your opinion on the matter becomes completely irrelevant at this point.

"I think the thing i was force-fed by my superiors at a crucial stage of my mental development is great, regardless of it being completely useless on a practical level to literally everyone else."

You are thinking in the exact same way as someone raised in a cult.

Ave Sodalis

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Your opinion on the matter becomes completely irrelevant at this point.

"I think the thing i was force-fed by my superiors at a crucial stage of my mental development is great, regardless of it being completely useless on a practical level to literally everyone else."

You are thinking in the exact same way as someone raised in a cult.

You could say that about any other topic. I've never used History and yet was forced to learn about it. It's been even less practical on a daily basis than learning Irish.

Dan_Solo

DyldeBrill wrote: »

I see plenty of people using it after finishing secondary school.

Well I see precisely nobody under 50 using Irish in Galway City.

DyldeBrill wrote: »

I found that learning irish at a young age made it easier for me topick up other languages such as French and German in school.

Oh this one again. I reckon your French and German would have been even better if you'd done extra French and German classes instead of Irish ones.

DyldeBrill

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Your opinion on the matter becomes completely irrelevant at this point.

"I think the thing i was force-fed by my superiors at a crucial stage of my mental development is great, regardless of it being completely useless on a practical level to literally everyone else."

You are thinking in the exact same way as someone raised in a cult.

So me sharing my experience is completely invalid? Get over yourself. Of course there are useless Gaelscoils out there where Irish isn't even implemented but to disregard my comment in that manner is simply ridiculous. I'm giving my opinion, from my experience. You obviously have your opinion and that's perfectly fine, I'm not asking you to like the language I was simply answering a point in which I saw was inaccurate.

Your comment is nothing but ignorant. Tell me how is I'm thinking of someone that's in a cult....? For simply sharing an opinion? pfft...

mickydoomsux

sup_dude wrote: »

You could say that about any other topic. I've never used History and yet was forced to learn about it. It's been even less practical on a daily basis than learning Irish.

They teach a bunch of useless stuff in schools because the ones getting paid to teach the useless stuff are the ones setting the curriculum.

Look at how ****ing useless people coming out of secondary school are at life to see how good the entire system is. It all needs a huge boot up the hole.

mickydoomsux

DyldeBrill wrote: »

So me sharing my experience is completely invalid? Get over yourself. Of course there are useless Gaelscoils out there where Irish isn't even implemented but to disregard my comment in that manner is simply ridiculous. I'm giving my opinion, from my experience. You obviously have your opinion and that's perfectly fine, I'm not asking you to like the language I was simply answering a point in which I saw was inaccurate.

Your comment is nothing but ignorant. Tell me how is I'm thinking of someone that's in a cult....? For simply sharing an opinion? pfft...

You went to a school that insisted in teaching everything through the medium of an irrelevant dead language and you are supporting this decision.

DyldeBrill

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Well I see precisely nobody under 50 using Irish in Galway City.Oh this one again. I reckon your French and German would have been even better if you'd done extra French and German classes instead of Irish ones.

In Galway City I've seen it spoken a lot. The only problem is is that its set exclusively for people who speak Irish. It should be an open invitation to all and not so closed off so I accept that you haven't heard it as much. I lived in Galway for 4 years and heard it hear and there...I guess I heard it more so than when I was living in Dublin. I lived in Connemara so I guess it was widely spoken there,

As for your second point again I agree...I'm simply saying that the fact that I had Irish at a young age enabled me to learn other languages just as easy. I could have learned Chinese or whatever language at a young age and it still would have benefited me going on to learn others. But why would it have been even better if I had done extra of these? If I had done that from the start I wouldn't have known Irish and yet I still went on to learn French and German. Its a personal preference of course and one I'm happy with.

Dan_Solo

sup_dude wrote: »

You could say that about any other topic. I've never used History and yet was forced to learn about it. It's been even less practical on a daily basis than learning Irish.

How could it be less practical than some that has, yes, zero practical value? And the Board of Education forced you to do History up to LC level? Are you sure about that?

DyldeBrill

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You went to a school that insisted in teaching everything through the medium of an irrelevant dead language and you are supporting this decision.

Calm down there with your narrow minded approach there dude. What makes it irrelevant? Fair enough, I can clearly see you dislike the language and that's your choice to do so....Graaaand! But the way you've constructed your point is so ridiculous I really don't know how to answer it...but that must be because I went to an Irish school so that's on me for not understanding.

Ave Sodalis

Dan_Solo wrote: »

How could it be less practical than some that has, yes, zero practical value? And the Board of Education forced you to do History up to LC level? Are you sure about that?

Only because you believe it has zero practical value. Are you sure I said to LC Level?

Dan_Solo

DyldeBrill wrote: »

As for your second point again I agree...I'm simply saying that the fact that I had Irish at a young age enabled me to learn other languages just as easy. I could have learned Chinese or whatever language at a young age and it still would have benefited me going on to learn others. But why would it have been even better if I had done extra of these? If I had done that from the start I wouldn't have known Irish and yet I still went on to learn French and German. Its a personal preference of course and one I'm happy with.

Why would your French be better if you did two hours of French instead of and hour of French and an hour of Irish? Is that a real question?

Dan_Solo

sup_dude wrote: »

Only because you believe it has zero practical value. Are you sure I said to LC Level?

I know it has zero practical value as there are fully zero instances that aren't artificially manufactured by the state when aptitude in Irish is of any benefit.
So your position is that knowing how to speak Irish is more important and practical than knowing anything about Ireland... where everybody speaks English anyway?