The Irish language is failing.

Iwasfrozen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I am born and bred Irish but I don't think Irish should be taught in school. It's a useless language these days and is only being taught for nostalgia, French or German being taught from primary school would be much more beneficial than a dead language. I never plan on spending much time in a Gaelteacht so I will never need the language, if people want to learn it as a hobby then more power to them but don't force it on kids who have zero interest.

Even if you go to a gaeltacht the people will speak English to you. Half of them probably only speak English.

That's how useless the language is. Compare it with our language English (the unofficial language of the planet! ) and Irish is almost non existent.

It's time to scrap this brain dead language, bury it and move on. The world is growing ever smaller. English is the most learned 2nd language.

Hellrazer

Can I answer this.Im proud to be Irish and I personally would love to see the language survive although I cant speak it myself.

Id suggest a system similar to what happened in Catalonia and the Catalan language which was almost dead in 1975 before the return of Spanish democracy.They have managed to completely turn around the almost loss of their language with most Catalonians using catalan as their first language now.
It took a lot of work and even took the government issuing fines for businesses not compliant with having everything in Catalan before any other language.

LordSutch wrote: »

No/1 In a nutshell, what are your suggestions to keep the Irish language alive?

Total immersion.Irish as a first language taught in schools for at least the first 5 years or has happened in Catlonia for all of primary school..

No/2 How would expand the usage of Irish through the adult Irish population?

All government documents to be issued in Irish.Not dual language.Would make people have to learn it as an everyday language.Very successful in Catlonia.The option to receive them in another language has to be applied for.

No/3 Do you have a "magic bullet" idea that would kick start the Irish language?

See 1 & 2

No/4 What should change in the curriculum to make the language more appealing?

See number 1.

No/5 Would you consider making Irish a non mandatory subject post Inter Cert?

Definitely not.

You know my theory very well, which would be very close to what Fine Gael were proposing a few years back, but if you had the power in your hands, how and what would you do to get the country speaking Irish?

The resurrection of Irish would take a lot of time,effort and money and a government that would actually have the balls to follow through with whatever plan they come up with--it would need at least a 20 year plan in my opinion to completely revive it as a first language.

What is not working however is this half arsed attempt at trying to keep it alive...at the moment its in a coma for want of a better word--neither alive or dead.It could go either way and become completely extinct or with the right backing behind it become a first language for future populations.

GreaseGunner

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's time to scrap this brain dead language, bury it and move on. The world is growing ever smaller. English is the most learned 2nd language.

Just because the world is growing smaller and English coming more to the fore doesn't mean that there isn't space to be found somewhere for Irish.

Honestly, if in 100 years time there wasn't any Irish at all left in the country, literally nobody speaking it, not a sign of it anywhere bar history books, would you be ok with that?

Iwasfrozen

GreaseGunner wrote: »

Just because the world is growing smaller and English coming more to the fore doesn't mean that there isn't space to be found somewhere for Irish.

True and if a person wants to learn this almost dead language then they should have the right to do so. But the government should not play a roll in influencing people's choices.

Your above ideas are ridiculous and quite fascist to tell the truth. What if I don't want my child to go to an Irish speaking primary school? What if I want to deal with the sate in English?

But then why are we even discussing this. What you're suggesting will never happen and you know it. Irish is dying, it's already comatose and soon it will be now it's time to bury it and move on.

Honestly, if in 100 years time there wasn't any Irish at all left in the country, literally nobody speaking it, not a sign of it anywhere bar history books, would you be ok with that?

Yes.

Hellrazer

GreaseGunner wrote: »

Honestly, if in 100 years time there wasn't any Irish at all left in the country, literally nobody speaking it, not a sign of it anywhere bar history books, would you be ok with that?

If in 100 years time it wasn't there I can guarantee you that there would be a huge effort to revive it.


Irish for me was hell in school but that's the way it was taught.I hated the way it was taught.17 years ago I would have been of the opinion of a lot of posters here in saying let it die out,let it become extinct.

However what changed my mind was the fact that all my 4 kids went to a Gaelscoil and actually seeing that total immersion actually does work.

They were all fluent speakers within Id say 3 months of starting junior infants when no other language was taught.
That's the way to revive Irish.

Iwasfrozen

Hellrazer wrote: »

They were all fluent speakers within Id say 3 months of starting junior infants when no other language was taught.
That's the way to revive Irish.

Children are barely fluent in English in junior infants I doubt they were fluent in Irish after three months unless the language is extremely simplistic!

Hellrazer

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

True and if a person wants to learn this almost dead language then they should have the right to do so. But the government should not play a roll in influencing people's choices.

Why??Its an official language of the state and should be supported by the government.

Your above ideas are ridiculous and quite fascist to tell the truth.

If its facist to want to keep my Irish heritage alive then sign me up.

What if I don't want my child to go to an Irish speaking primary school? What if I want to deal with the sate in English?

Well if it became an actual government policy to revive the language and do whatever that took then you may not have a choice in it. Again I point to Catalan.In one fell swoop the government made it law that every child be taught Catalan for all of primary school.It annoyed a few people but if you ask anyone there now was it a good idea not many will say it wasn't.

But then why are we even discussing this. What you're suggesting will never happen and you know it. Irish is dying, it's already comatose and soon it will be now it's time to bury it and move on.

It probably will never happen but theres always one small hope that someday one government will make it policy to revive the Irish language and do it in a way that we as Irish people should be proud to speak the language and not keep wanting it to die out.

Hellrazer

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Children are barely fluent in English in junior infants I doubt they were fluent in Irish after three months unless the language is extremely simplistic!

Not sure if you have kids but from my experience all mine were quite fluent in English starting primary school.They may not have written the works of Shakespeare at 4 years of age but Id describe them as fluent English speakers starting school.
After a few months of total immersion in Irish they were just as good at spoken Irish as they were at English.

GreaseGunner

Hellrazer wrote: »

However what changed my mind was the fact that all my 4 kids went to a Gaelscoil and actually seeing that total immersion actually does work.
They were all fluent speakers within Id say 3 months of starting junior infants when no other language was taught.
That's the way to revive Irish.

I'd agree 100% there. Immersion really is key when it comes to Irish. For anyone who hasn't had any experience with a Gaelscoil, visiting one is a real eye-opener. To hear the kids doing everything as Gaeilge is really special and you'd realise that the Irish language is far from dead

It will only die when we let it.

Iwasfrozen

Hellrazer wrote: »

Why??Its an official language of the state and should be supported by the government.

Says who? Why must the state be charged with the preservation of its official languages? Surely the state as a living entity and the constitution as a living document adapt to the changing environment we find ourselves in instead of projecting by force it's rather limited concept of Irishness onto a much more diverse population?

If its facist to want to keep my Irish heritage alive then sign me up.

It's not, but it is fascist to force your cultural heritage onto others who may not identify with it.

Well if it became an actual government policy to revive the language and do whatever that took then you may not have a choice in it. Again I point to Catalan.In one fell swoop the government made it law that every child be taught Catalan for all of primary school.It annoyed a few people but if you ask anyone there now was it a good idea not many will say it wasn't

.
Fascist. I've never protested before but I'd do everything I can to defeat such a disgusting policy. If that didn't work I wouldn't have them educated in the republic of Ireland.

It probably will never happen but theres always one small hope that someday one government will make it policy to revive the Irish language and do it in a way that we as Irish people should be proud to speak the language and not keep wanting it to die out.

Such extreme and anti democratic measures will never be taken.

Iwasfrozen

Hellrazer wrote: »

Not sure if you have kids but from my experience all mine were quite fluent in English starting primary school.They may not have written the works of Shakespeare at 4 years of age but Id describe them as fluent English speakers starting school.
After a few months of total immersion in Irish they were just as good at spoken Irish as they were at English.

Fluent English speakers? At 4? They must have been prodigies! Could they read an article in the Economist?

Hellrazer

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Says who? Why must the state be charged with the preservation of its official languages? Surely the state as a living entity and the constitution as a living document adapt to the changing environment we find ourselves in instead of projecting by force it's rather limited concept of Irishness onto a much more diverse population?

Why?Iif you go to live somewhere that has a different language than your native one then you have to abide by their rules.Canada for example--unless you proficient in French you cant live or work in certain parts of it.If I moved there with none of my kids speaking French then they would have to learn it in the manner it was being taught in Canada. That's government policy and a government being in charge of the preservation of their language. Only difference is that they enforce it.

Im trying to make the point that if Irish was ever revived or tried to be revived as a first language then you,me or any number of immigrants would have to abide by the rules of the state.

IF It's not, but it is fascist to force your cultural heritage onto others who may not identify with it.

No its not.If Irish was a first language then "others who may not identify with it" would have no choice to get in line and learn the language and or the culture.I don't go on holidays and dictate to the locals what I can or cannot do just because I don't identify with it.

.

Fascist. I've never protested before but I'd do everything I can to defeat such a disgusting policy. If that didn't work I wouldn't have them educated in the republic of Ireland.

You like that word don't you? You have a right to complain to your local TD but if it was a majority decision at a political level or even in a referndum you could protest or as you said get your kids educated outside of Ireland.Thats your right but its not fascist if its a democratic decision.

Such extreme and anti democratic measures will never be taken.

Not anti democratic if its the will of the majority of the population. I personally think it would pass in a referendum if the question was put to the people about reviving Irish as a first language.

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

Honestly, if in 100 years time there wasn't any Irish at all left in the country, literally nobody speaking it, not a sign of it anywhere bar history books, would you be ok with that?

If nobody in the country wants to do something would I be happy if nobody is doing it... er, I guess. Why not?

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

I'd agree 100% there. Immersion really is key when it comes to Irish. For anyone who hasn't had any experience with a Gaelscoil, visiting one is a real eye-opener. To hear the kids doing everything as Gaeilge is really special and you'd realise that the Irish language is far from dead

And if you hang about you'll hear them all speaking English as soon as they go out the door.
They have to speak it. Apparently none of them want to.

Iwasfrozen

Hellrazer wrote: »

Why?Iif you go to live somewhere that has a different language than your native one then you have to abide by their rules.Canada for example--unless you proficient in French you cant live or work in certain parts of it.If I moved there with none of my kids speaking French then they would have to learn it in the manner it was being taught in Canada. That's government policy and a government being in charge of the preservation of their language. Only difference is that they enforce it.

Are you forgetting that English is an official language of Ireland?

Regardless the state should exert as little power over the choices of its citizens as possible, people's choices and identities should be as free as possible. That includes what language they want to speak or what language they want their children to speak. If a group of Polish parents want to start a polish speaking school I see no problem with that.

The language rules of Quebec are very dogmatic and not something we should seek to emulate.

Im trying to make the point that if Irish was ever revived or tried to be revived as a first language then you,me or any number of immigrants would have to abide by the rules of the state.

Once again fascism. I would not have to abide by anything.

No its not.If Irish was a first language then "others who may not identify with it" would have no choice to get in line and learn the language and or the culture.I don't go on holidays and dictate to the locals what I can or cannot do just because I don't identify with it.

Turn that around. If the the will of the majority dictated that all support should be taken from Irish would you accept that?

All children must be educated through English and all state services must be provided through English olny would you agree with the majorities decision? Would you go along with it?

You like that word don't you? You have a right to complain to your local TD but if it was a majority decision at a political level or even in a referndum you could protest or as you said get your kids educated outside of Ireland.Thats your right but its not fascist if its a democratic decision.

It's an apt description. Thankfully your little wet dream will never come to fruition.

Not anti democratic if its the will of the majority of the population. I personally think it would pass in a referendum if the question was put to the people about reviving Irish as a first language.

Delusional. The people have already voted with their tongues which language they want to speak.

GreaseGunner

Dan_Solo wrote: »

And if you hang about you'll hear them all speaking English as soon as they go out the door.

Not all of them, no. A certian amount of Gaelscoil parents speak Irish at home also. Granted with a good mix of English, but it is still there after 3 o' clock.

They have to speak it. Apparently none of them want to.

In fairness, if kids were let what they want to do in school there'd be no work done.

What I find great about Gaelscoil's is they make Irish much easier for kids, while still taking little or nothing away from the child's learning of English.

Dan_Solo

Hellrazer wrote: »

Not sure if you have kids but from my experience all mine were quite fluent in English starting primary school.They may not have written the works of Shakespeare at 4 years of age but Id describe them as fluent English speakers starting school.
After a few months of total immersion in Irish they were just as good at spoken Irish as they were at English.

And you can lie if you want, but even though you insist they are equally fluent they won't speak one word of Irish outside of school because they don't want to.

Hellrazer

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Fluent English speakers? At 4? They must have been prodigies! Could they read an article in the Economist?

You never answered my question..do you have kids?
You are really hung up in this one.

A child cannot start primary school without being proficient in English.That doesn't mean they have to be able to read the Economist or write war and peace (although speaking fluently is completely different than reading an article in the economist but Ill let that one slide) but they do have to be able to speak and understand instructions from the teaching staff.
A child at 5 should be able to hold a conversation with an adult and should have excellent verbal communication skills.
They don't have to be prodigies.

Then they go to a Gaelscoil and because of total immersion in the language they learn it much faster and can speak Irish at the same level of their English within weeks.

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

In fairness, if kids were let what they want to do in school there'd be no work done.

Rubbish argument. You've made no case why anybody needs to be forced to speak Irish beyond the fact that you like it. I can easily make a case of English and Maths being mandatory. Can you do likewise with Irish without using "I like Irish" as your theory?

Dan_Solo

Hellrazer wrote: »

Then they go to a Gaelscoil and because of total immersion in the language they learn it much faster and can speak Irish at the same level of their English within weeks.

They could equally be using that time to become excellent at something useful. Which Irish isn't. Or something they might even want to use when they're adults. Which Irish isn't.

Iwasfrozen

Hellrazer wrote: »

You never answered my question..do you have kids?
You are really hung up in this one.

A child cannot start primary school without being proficient in English.That doesn't mean they have to be able to read the Economist or write war and peace (although speaking fluently is completely different than reading an article in the economist but Ill let that one slide) but they do have to be able to speak and understand instructions from the teaching staff.
A child at 5 should be able to hold a conversation with an adult and should have excellent verbal communication skills.
They don't have to be prodigies.

Then they go to a Gaelscoil and because of total immersion in the language they learn it much faster and can speak Irish at the same level of their English within weeks.

And nor am I going to.

If they can't read the economist they're hardly fluent. Can they read an article from the daily mail? (not that you'd want your kids reading that crap but could they)

Understanding simplistic instructions from a teacher is not fluency. If that's how low your standards are no wonder you think people can easily become fluent in Irish.

Carlos Orange

Hellrazer wrote: »

Why?Iif you go to live somewhere that has a different language than your native one then you have to abide by their rules.

My 1st language / native language / mother tongue is English. It is for pretty much everyone in Ireland.

GreaseGunner

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Rubbish argument. You've made no case why anybody needs to be forced to speak Irish beyond the fact that you like it. I can easily make a case of English and Maths being mandatory. Can you do likewise with Irish without using "I like Irish" as your theory?

Yes.

The Irish language belongs to Ireland and it's people. It's doesn't belong to the French, nor the Scottish, nor the English. As the people of this country, it is ours. Granted for 99% of us it's not our first language, but it is ours none the less. Our choices of what we do with it are let it die out or keep it somewhat alive.

When it comes to making that choice, whether you like it or not, Irish does have a value. It's not worthless rubbish and for anyone to say it is is not much short of ignorance. The loss of any language, especially one which is still to some degree alive, is an absolute shame.

To keep the language from falling in to total disuse it is heavily reliant on the input of young people and the coming generations. By being a compulsory subject in schools, every child gets a taste of it. Some dislike it, others like it, same as every other subject that's taught. It's not being taught to prepare them for the world in the same way that Maths and English are, but rather to keep it from falling in to disuse and to prevent the complete loss of a language, which would be a huge mistake. If children aren't introduced to it when they're young the chances of them picking it up as adults are far less likely I'd imagine.

If the language were to be made more accessible for young kids and to be taught in a more positive way (Gaelscoils are really great for this) then I believe it has a place in primary schools in Ireland.

Iwasfrozen

GreaseGunner wrote: »

Yes.

The Irish language belongs to Ireland and it's people. It's doesn't belong to the French, nor the Scottish, nor the English. As the people of this country, it is ours. Granted for 99% of us it's not our first language, but it is ours none the less. Our choices of what we do with it are let it die out or keep it somewhat alive.

When it comes to making that choice, whether you like it or not, Irish does have a value. It's not worthless rubbish and for anyone to say it is is not much short of ignorance. The loss of any language, especially one which is still to some degree alive, is an absolute shame.

To keep the language from falling in to total disuse it is heavily reliant on the input of young people and the coming generations. By being a compulsory subject in schools, every child gets a taste of it. Some dislike it, others like it, same as every other subject that's taught. It's not being taught to prepare them for the world in the same way that Maths and English are, but rather to keep it from falling in to disuse and to prevent the complete loss of a language, which would be a huge mistake. If children aren't introduced to it when they're young the chances of them picking it up as adults are far less likely I'd imagine.

If the language were to be made more accessible for young kids and to be taught in a more positive way (Gaelscoils are really great for this) then I believe it has a place in primary schools in Ireland.

And that's what it is. A shame. Not the end of the word.

Our education system should serve our students, instead students are suffering to keep a brain dead language alive.

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

Yes.

The Irish language belongs to Ireland and it's people. It's doesn't belong to the French, nor the Scottish, nor the English. As the people of this country, it is ours. Granted for 99% of us it's not our first language, but it is ours none the less. Our choices of what we do with it are let it die out or keep it somewhat alive.

The English language "belongs" to Ireland too because that's what we speak. You seem to think somebody's leasing English to us? How is it not mine as much as Irish is?
And who are you to tell me what I should think my own culture is as a matter of interest?

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

To keep the language from falling in to total disuse it is heavily reliant on the input of young people and the coming generations. By being a compulsory subject in schools, every child gets a taste of it. Some dislike it, others like it, same as every other subject that's taught.

But pretty much 0% of them like it enough to use outside of school or ever again after school. That's how much they like it.

dr.fuzzenstein

Look it's simple. Making Irish compulsory would be like making Latin compulsory. It is part of European heritage, we shouldn't forget it, but to make it compulsory and make everyone's future career dependent on learning it is idiocy of the highest order.
Countries change, languages change and to flog a dead horse that cannot and will not ever be revived to appease a few die-hards and loons and to achieve a goal that will never be achieved is just insanity.

Dughorm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

In the context of your statement that Irish should be mandatory as part of a liberal arts education, why Irish? Why mandatory?

To summarise my posts on this thread:

Why mandatory?
1. There should be mandatory subjects as a core foundation in a liberal arts education - I don't think its acceptable to have complete choice in subjects and still consider it a "liberal arts education"
2. the fundamentals of "reading, writing and arithmetic" should be brought to an advanced level - specialisms are also possible in the forms of choices for business, arts, sciences etc... which complement the core subjects

Why Irish?
1. Irish and English are our national languages - our nationals should be able to converse in our national languages at an advanced level
2. Irish provides a portal by which people can understand the heritage of the island they live on first hand
3. It is reasonable to expect people to be schooled to the competency required to be able to read the words of their national anthem and understand what it says. It would be ridiculous for the State to give people the option to "opt-out" of the language that their national anthem is in, especially coming up to the centenary celebrations of 1916 and the war of independence.

GreaseGunner

Dan_Solo wrote: »

And who are you to tell me what I should think my own culture is as a matter of interest?

I never said a word about culture? I said the language is ours. As long as we are Irish citizens, which I'm assuming you are, with the power to vote on any referendum or similar regarding the Irish language, it's life or death is our responsibility.

GreaseGunner

Dan_Solo wrote: »

But pretty much 0% of them like it enough to use outside of school or ever again after school. That's how much they like it.

The opportunities to use Irish outside of school or after school are quite slim. I would imagine this has every much a a bearing on children using it as whether they like it or not.

Carlos Orange

Dughorm wrote: »

To summarise my posts on this thread:

Why Irish?

This sounds more like an argument for lots of other changes, like singing our national anthem in its original language.
Apparently the state doesn't even have copyright to any of the Irish language versions.

Dughorm

psinno wrote: »

This sounds more like an argument for lots of other changes, like singing our national anthem in its original language.

And yet it isn't sung in its original language - why is that do you think??

If the lots of other changes you're referring to are changing the national anthem and status of official languages... then certainly these should be discussed as well as making Irish an optional subject - because the discussion is so much more than the leaving cert - it's about what we consider the status of Irish to be in our country...

LordSutch

Dughorm wrote: »

To summarise my posts on this thread:

Why mandatory?
1. There should be mandatory subjects as a core foundation in a liberal arts education - I don't think its acceptable to have complete choice in subjects and still consider it a "liberal arts education"
2. the fundamentals of "reading, writing and arithmetic" should be brought to an advanced level - specialisms are also possible in the forms of choices for business, arts, sciences etc... which complement the core subjects

Why Irish?
1. Irish and English are our national languages - our nationals should be able to converse in our national languages at an advanced level.
2. Irish provides a portal by which people can understand the heritage of the island they live on first hand
3. It is reasonable to expect people to be schooled to the competency required to be able to read the words of their national anthem and understand what it says. It would be ridiculous for the State to give people the option to "opt-out" of the language that their national anthem is in, especially coming up to the centenary celebrations of 1916 and the war of independence.

1. English is our 1st spoken language, Polish is the 2nd most spoken language in the state, with Irish (the official language of the state), falling behind as the 3rd most spoken language in the state!

2. English (Hiberno) being our natural-national language provides a portal by which people can understand the heritage of the island they live on, 1st hand.

3. Might as well teach the Irish National Anthem in its original form "English" at this stage, such is the mangling of the Irish version you hear so frequently at football matches etc. As regards what happened between 1916 - 1922, well that's what led to mandatory Irish for all > yet here we are several generations and eight decades later, and we as a nation are still not opting to speak Irish . . .

Aineoil

Nach bhfuil an snáithe seo an suimiúil.

Táim ag cogaint ar an bpopbcorn ag léamh agus ag breathnú ar na rudaí atá scríofa faoin teanga.

Iwasfrozen

Aineoil wrote: »

Nach bhfuil an snáithe seo an suimiúil.

Táim ag cogaint ar an bpopbcorn ag léamh agus ag breathnú ar na rudaí atá scríofa faoin teanga.

Just an fyi, you can't post in Irish here without providing an English translation.

Carlos Orange

Dughorm wrote: »

And yet it isn't sung in its original language - why is that do you think??

That repetition is good for memorisation. How many do you think could tell you what the words mean? I still remember the start of the hail Mary in French because we had to say it out loud at the start of each French class.

I didn't end up a French speaker or Catholic.

Aineoil

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Just an fyi, you can't post in Irish here without providing an English translation.

Just was saying that the thread is interesting and I was chawing on popcorn.

Aineoil

And the other bit that I was reading and looking at what was written.

Aineoil

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Just an fyi, you can't post in Irish here without providing an English translation.

Why?

umop apisdn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Just an fyi, you can't post in Irish here without providing an English translation.

What's the Irish for a hairy poster that lives under a bridge ??

Iwasfrozen

Aineoil wrote: »

Why?

Because the moderators can't moderate.

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the moderators can't moderate.

and frustrates those who want rid of the language.

umop apisdn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the moderators can't moderate.

Is their Irish that bad, have they never heard of google translate ?

DyldeBrill

LordSutch wrote: »

3. Might as well teach the Irish National Anthem in its original form "English" at this stage, such is the mangling of the Irish version you hear so frequently at football matches etc .

Ha! Absolutely ridiculous.

You'd rather our anthem be sung in the English form?

Iwasfrozen

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Ha! Absolutely ridiculous.

You'd rather our anthem be sung in the English form?

He's not alone in that sentiment. They should at least have equal status.

LordSutch

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Ha! Absolutely ridiculous.

You'd rather our anthem be sung in the English form?

The English version being the original version, the one everybody understands.

That one, no?

dr.fuzzenstein

umop apisdn wrote: »

Is their Irish that bad, have they never heard of google translate ?

Dann kannst du es auch für Deutsch gebrauchen.
Weisst du dass Althochdeutsch und Latein keine Pflichtfächer sind?
Warum nicht? Weil kein Schwein diese toten Sprachen braucht.
Nicht jeder hier spricht Irisch.

umop apisdn

umop apisdn wrote: »

Is their Irish that bad, have they never heard of google translate ?

Google translate only works if the text is written correctly, a couple of spelling mistakes or the grammer poor and it's fúcked!

Carlos Orange

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Ha! Absolutely ridiculous.

You'd rather our anthem be sung in the English form?

Singing our anthem in the language people speak, pure craziness.

Dughorm

LordSutch wrote: »

1. English is our 1st spoken language, Polish is the 2nd most spoken language in the state, with Irish (the official language of the state), falling behind as the 3rd most spoken language in the state!

Doesn't change what I said about national languages - if you feel Polish or Arabic should be a national language you can raise this with your local TD. Also should you wish to converse with Polish or Arabic speaking peoples in this country pretty sure you have the option to learn it for the leaving cert.

LordSutch wrote: »

2. English (Hiberno) being our natural-national language provides a portal by which people can understand the heritage of the island they live on, 1st hand.

Part of Irish heritage is indeed of English Speaking origin - "the pale" from the 16th century or so, the plantation settlers, most of the island from the 19th century etc... all have made a contribution to it - in the same way people should understand the works of Jonathan Swift in its idiom so should people be able to enjoy their heritage that is Irish speaking in origin, such as interesting works like Cúirt An Mheán Oíche that should be enjoyed first hand and not through translation after 13 years of Irish learning.

LordSutch wrote: »

3. Might as well teach the Irish National Anthem in its original form "English" at this stage, such is the mangling of the Irish version you hear so frequently at football matches etc. As regards what happened between 1916 - 1922, well that's what led to mandatory Irish for all > yet here we are several generations and eight decades later, and we as a nation are still not opting to speak Irish . . .

If you want the anthem sung in English, Irish removed as our national language, "optional" Irish in schools - more power to you. That is a consistent line of argument...