The Irish language is failing.

kingchess

New Zealand might be enlightened Country by why would they waste money on a language spoken by 4% of the population when they have English??(only joking)

dr.fuzzenstein

kingchess wrote: »

New Zealand might be enlightened Country by why would they waste money on a language spoken by 4% of the population when they have English??(only joking)

I don't see how that is relevant to this discussion.

gormdubhgorm

Ros na Run has lot to answer for...they killed off the blonde wan that acted as a character called "lee". She was one of the main reasons I watched it!
Lee.jpg

I find the soap a great way to keep the ear in for the langauge and pick up new words and phrases. Better acting in it then English soaps or Irish soaps in English

Blue Badger

Speaking of blondes in Ros na Rún, whatever happened to the actress on it who also starred in Seacht? She made me appreciate the Irish language! Seacht itself needs to make a comeback. It is hands down the best Irish drama I've ever come across, not least because it's the only one I know of that was targeted at young adults as it followed a group of students at a university in Northern Ireland.

Shep_Dog

Blue Badger wrote: »

Speaking of blondes in Ros na Rún, whatever happened to the actress on it who also starred in Seacht? She made me appreciate the Irish language! Seacht itself needs to make a comeback. It is hands down the best Irish drama I've ever come across, not least because it's the only one I know of that was targeted at young adults as it followed a group of students at a university in Northern Ireland.

'Seacht' aired back in 2008 and I'd guess no more series were made due to lack of funding. Not many people want to watch TV in Irish.

Maybe if the Irish-language movement were to look for private-sector sponsorship, they might get more programmes? I'm sure there must be many companies looking to sell goods and services to such a well-educated and cultured demographic.

Blue Badger

Maybe we just need to make Irish sexy. Ask the Taoiseach to hire Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Watson to star in a full on sex scene as gaeilge to be featured on TG4.... They could show it after the weather

Shep_Dog

Blue Badger wrote: »

Maybe we just need to make Irish sexy. Ask the Taoiseach to hire Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Watson to star in a full on sex scene as gaeilge to be featured on TG4.... They could show it after the weather

Peig would not be impressed.

Shep_Dog

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Peig would not be impressed.

When she was young, she might have had a leading role, she wasn't always an old hag!

Shep_Dog

Deleted User wrote: »

When she was young, she might have had a leading role, she wasn't always an old hag!

I don't think de Valera would have imagined his 'comely girls' as lesbians.

PopePalpatine

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Peig would not be impressed.

Or her nephew.

BoatMad

psinno wrote: »

It doesn't really make sense for non Irish speakers to have a vote. They aren't real Irish people.

You're right , its time to annex the blaskets and move all the real irish people to them.

The rest of us can get along just fine in english in EnIrland

MrMorooka

http://www.thejournal.ie/courts-alcohol-test-language-2343812-Sep2015/

whisky_galore

Blue Badger wrote: »

Maybe we just need to make Irish sexy.

It's like trying to make a burqa sexy.

Dughorm

MrMorooka wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/courts-alcohol-test-language-2343812-Sep2015/

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0921/729338-drink-driving-breath-test/ wrote:

In his judgment today Mr Justice Seamus Noonan said a breath alcohol test statement is not a valid piece of evidence if it is in English only.

Judge Noonan said that in April last year, a first breath test had been performed on Mr Avadenei after he had been stopped by Garda Francis McMahon for driving at 80km/h in a 50km/h zone.

The judge said that Garda McMahon had got a strong smell of alcohol from Mr Avadenei's breath and had performed an Alcotest which result had been "fail."

Garda McMahon arrested Mr Avadenei and brought him to Store Street Garda Station where a further test, Evidenzer Irl, performed by another garda, revealed a concentration of 54mcg of alcohol per 100ml of breath.

Judge Noonan said there was no ambiguity in the Act that when performing the Evidenzer test, the garda must supply statements in Irish and in English.

"Once the breath specimen has been given which indicates a possible contravention, the person providing the specimen shall be supplied immediately by a member of the Garda Síochána with two identical statements in the prescribed form," the judge said.

"In my view, what arises in this case, being a failure to reproduce an entire half of the prescribed form, could not be regarded as 'mere deviation' from the form prescribed.

"It is not evidence at all and cannot be admitted," Judge Noonan said.

A spokesperson for the Department of Justice said the terms of the judgment were now being considered by An Garda Síochána in consultation with all relevant agencies.

Disgraceful isn't it?

But what does it mean regarding this topic?

If the judge is correct in his statement above in bold, then this says more about the relevant department's lack of attention to detail in applying legislation and an attitude of indifference shown to Gaeilge in Irish public life than it does about whether we should have two national languages.

Carlos Orange

It says a lot about the idea of legally mandating bilingualism in a country where the vast majority of people can only speak one language.

Dan_Solo

Let me guess, this will shortly be added to the list of things Irish is good for right up there with "saying check out yer wan to yer mate" and "getting a cushy number in TG4".

BoatMad

I think the legislation and the judgement are ridiculous , and all part of forcing Irish down our throats , whether we want it to not. Its entirely appropriate that the form be available in Irish to those that demand it or express an inability to read english. Its entirely ridiculous to suggest that simply leaving out the irish form as standard invalidates the whole thing. it could be argued that the correct legislation would be one that states that the notice should be in a form intelligible to the receiver , I could even accept that , but this stuff is political correctness gone bonkers

its the same thing that I now have to listen to both and Irish and english voice announcements of menu items from certain state companies , all the while paying peak mobile rates on they stupid 1890 number

Shep_Dog

Dughorm wrote: »

Disgraceful isn't it?
But what does it mean regarding this topic?

It depends on whether or not the Irish lobby places public safety as secondary to the propagation of their language.

dr.fuzzenstein

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Let me guess, this will shortly be added to the list of things Irish is good for right up there with "saying check out yer wan to yer mate" and "getting a cushy number in TG4".

Forget that, far too hectic and career driven! You want a job in the Department of Arts, Heritage and Gaeltacht. I'd say that would probably be too quiet for a comatose librarian.
There you can lightly snooze away your life till retirement. I'd learn Irish for that!

Carlos Orange

BoatMad wrote: »

its the same thing that I now have to listen to both and Irish and english voice announcements of menu items from certain state companies , all the while paying peak mobile rates on they stupid 1890 number

What sort of moron thought that was a good idea instead of just letting people select their language.

Shep_Dog

psinno wrote: »

What sort of moron thought that was a good idea instead of just letting people select their language.

The Official Languages Act demands that Irish has equal or higher prominence than English in all public signs and services provided by the state. It was passed by Fianna Fail at the behest of Conradh na Gaeilge, a radical, traditionalist organisation whose main aim is for Irish to replace English as our common language. I think we have Eamonn O'Cuiv to thank for this.

BoatMad

Shep_Dog wrote: »

The Official Languages Act demands that Irish has equal or higher prominence than English in all public signs and services provided by the state. It was passed by Fianna Fail at the behest of Conradh na Gaeilge, a radical, traditionalist organisation whose main aim is for Irish to replace English as our common language. I think we have Eamonn O'Cuiv to thank for this.

then repeal it and lets get back to reason and sense

Dughorm

Shep_Dog wrote: »

It depends on whether or not the Irish lobby places public safety as secondary to the propagation of their language.

Who thinks that?

If the legislation was as clear as the judge says it was - why didn't the relevant body do something about it?

Dughorm

BoatMad wrote: »

it could be argued that the correct legislation would be one that states that the notice should be in a form intelligible to the receiver , I could even accept that , but this stuff is political correctness gone bonkers

I don't think the defendant was claiming that Gaeilge was intelligible to them!

An Ciarraioch

In truth, cases like this don't do any service to Irish - it's one thing for services to be provided bilingually for those who choose to conduct their daily business through the language, quite another when it's used to engage in legal pettifoggery. Myles na gCopaleen, who was a fluent Gaeilgeoir, would have a field day, working this into a modern-day An Béal Bocht!

Shep_Dog

Dughorm wrote: »

Who thinks that?

I eagerly await Conradh's reaction to this.

whisky_galore

Dughorm wrote: »

Disgraceful isn't it?

But what does it mean regarding this topic?

If the judge is correct in his statement above in bold, then this says more about the relevant department's lack of attention to detail in applying legislation and an attitude of indifference shown to Gaeilge in Irish public life than it does about whether we should have two national languages.

Says more about someone with smart*rse legal representation using the language issue as a tool to try to get them off the hook instead of taking the rap like anyone else.

Barely There

So, the Irish language Nazis have ensured that a drunken driver gets off scot-free to no doubt cause carnage on our roads.

When will this madness end?

whisky_galore

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

In truth, cases like this don't do any service to Irish - it's one thing for services to be provided bilingually for those who choose to conduct their daily business through the language, quite another when it's used to engage in legal pettifoggery. Myles na gCopaleen, who was a fluent Gaeilgeoir, would have a field day, working this into a modern-day An Béal Bocht!

Think the law should be changed to stop this crap cropping up again. Does this mean that all these machines providing the readout of the breath test will have to be reconfigured into Irish also?? Or getting someone out specially to translate for them? Jesus wept.:rolleyes:

If you're obviously capable of understanding the charges or the case being made against you, you should be told to fcuk right off with the language argument instead of having AGS flailing around wasting time and resources which are better spent elsewhere.

BoatMad

whisky_galore wrote: »

Think the law should be changed to stop this crap cropping up again. Does this mean that all these machines providing the readout of the breath test will have to be reconfigured into Irish also?? Or getting someone out specially to translate for them? Jesus wept.:rolleyes:

If you're obviously capable of understanding the charges or the case being made against you, you should be told to fcuk right off with the language argument instead of having AGS flailing around wasting time and resources which are better spent elsewhere.

Legislation signed into law this morning , provides for the notice in English OR Irish being acceptable , not both

presumably the drunk scroat will now be brought before the courts again

Shep_Dog

BoatMad wrote: »

Legislation signed into law this morning , provides for the notice in English OR Irish being acceptable , not both

No doubt, Conradh will be outraged at this erosion of 'language rights'.

The Corinthian

BoatMad wrote: »

presumably the drunk scroat will now be brought before the courts again

Only if he recommits the same offence. Otherwise he's gotten off and and cannot be tried for the same offence again, especially one committed predating the new law.

whisky_galore

Shep_Dog wrote: »

No doubt, Conradh will be outraged at this erosion of 'language rights'.

Saving of lives should trump any feelings of outrage.

Dan_Solo

BoatMad wrote: »

Legislation signed into law this morning , provides for the notice in English OR Irish being acceptable , not both

presumably the drunk scroat will now be brought before the courts again

Probably too much to expect this ruling to be applied across the board? Irish on request only please for all government business.

4ensic15

BoatMad wrote: »

Legislation signed into law this morning , provides for the notice in English OR Irish being acceptable , not both

presumably the drunk scroat will now be brought before the courts again

If he commits the alleged offence on a future occasion. Anyway nothing was ever proved against him so he is innocent.

dr.fuzzenstein

4ensic15 wrote: »

If he commits the alleged offence on a future occasion. Anyway nothing was ever proved against him so he is innocent.

It was proven that he was over the limit. The fact that he managed to worm his way out of this on a technicality like the cockroach he is doesn't make him innocent.
He's a scumbag.

4ensic15

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It was proven that he was over the limit. The fact that he managed to worm his way out of this on a technicality like the cockroach he is doesn't make him innocent.
he's a scumbag.

It wasn't proven. there was no evidence.He has a presumption of innocence until admissible evidence changes that. There was no admissible evidence of drunkeness so he is innocent.

dr.fuzzenstein

4ensic15 wrote: »

It wasn't proven. there was no evidence.He has a presumption of innocence until admissible evidence changes that. There was no admissible evidence of drunkeness so he is innocent.

Don't care, he's a scumbag. I don't give a flying sh*te about legal weasel slimy worminess and hair splitting.
I speak as a human being, as opposed to anyone in the legal profession.

FloatingVoter

I think it is fantastic that the cupla focail has spread to drunken Romanians. Given that both languages spoken by a gifted orator still sound like a mouthful of spits, it should come as no surprise.

Oh, row say de battered warrior ~
Mars a nits er sucked on towelrail.

4ensic15

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Don't care, he's a scumbag. I don't give a flying sh*te about legal weasel slimy worminess and hair splitting.
I speak as a human being, as opposed to anyone in the legal profession.

Some human being who has no respect for the law or the constitution. I hope that whenever you are accused of doing something you didn't do that you just plead guilty rather than relying on your rights!

dr.fuzzenstein

4ensic15 wrote: »

Some human being who has no respect for the law or the constitution. I hope that whenever you are accused of doing something you didn't do that you just plead guilty rather than relying on your rights!

So he didn't do it? He wasn't found drunk behind the wheel? There wasn't a printout that clearly stated he was over the limit? He didn't weasel his way out on a technicality?
Who has no respect for the law? What do you say to him? Good lad? Well done? You are a shining beacon to all humanity?
THAT my friend, is truly having no respect for the law or society as a whole. In fact that is contempt of both. The law was not conceived so that people can get off the hook because of a technicality. People who applaud this sort of thing are just as bad. See if that shoe fits.

4ensic15

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So he didn't do it? He wasn't found drunk behind the wheel? There wasn't a printout that clearly stated he was over the limit? He didn't weasel his way out on a technicality?
Who has no respect for the law? What do you say to him? Good lad? Well done? You are a shining beacon to all humanity?
THAT my friend, is truly having no respect for the law or society as a whole. In fact that is contempt of both. The law was not conceived so that people can get off the hook because of a technicality. People who applaud this sort of thing are just as bad. See if that shoe fits.

You are trying to twist the laaw to your world view. You didn't concieve the law (thank god), you weren't even there when the law was concieved. The reason there are technicalities is to protect innocent people form the likes of you who would hang anyone on sight.

AnLonDubh

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I think it is fantastic that the cupla focail has spread to drunken Romanians. Given that both languages spoken by a gifted orator still sound like a mouthful of spits, it should come as no surprise.

Have you ever actually heard Romanian you dumbass? It's phonology is almost identical to English, seriously "a mouthful of spits".

Shep_Dog

4ensic15 wrote: »

You are trying to twist the laaw to your world view. You didn't concieve the law (thank god), you weren't even there when the law was concieved. The reason there are technicalities is to protect innocent people form the likes of you who would hang anyone on sight.

Ever hear of the 'spirit of the law'?

In other cases, judges have allowed unlawfully obtained evidence where the mistake in law was not delberate.

There was no bad faith on the part of the Gardai.

FloatingVoter

AnLonDubh wrote: »

Have you ever actually heard Romanian you dumbass? It's phonology is almost identical to English, seriously "a mouthful of spits".

I have and my sincere apologies to Romanian people everywhere. It was not that subsection I intended to offend.

ps: yes English and Romanian both have roots in Latin as well as heavy Germanic influence. Phonetic means sounds like. Their etymologies are also similar. Irish and Romanian differ in that Romanian is a living language. You can fly to Bucharest tonight and meet someone who only speaks Romanian. You will not however fly into Rome or Dublin and find anyone who solely speaks Latin or Irish. I' m sure in either of the latter cities you could find a rude person who insists on speaking one or other of the dead tongues, that's a reflection on them not you.

AnLonDubh

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I have and my sincere apologies to Romanian people everywhere. It was not that subsection I intended to offend.

You directly stated that both languages (which includes Romanian) sound like "a mouthful of spits". What aspect of Romanian phonology sounds like a "mouthful of spits"?

ps: yes English and Romanian both have roots in Latin as well as heavy Germanic influence.

Romanian is Italic, descended from Latin. English is descended from proto-Germanic, it simply borrows some words from Latin, but does not have its roots in Latin. Their only common root is Indo-European which they share with Irish. Romanian is in fact closer to Irish than it is to English, both having emerged from the same period in Indo-European's history.

Phonetic means sounds like.

Phonetic just means a sound, phoneme (as in phonology) means a sound as understood within a language.

4ensic15

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Ever hear of the 'spirit of the law'?

In other cases, judges have allowed unlawfully obtained evidence where the mistake in law was not delberate.

There was no bad faith on the part of the Gardai.

This wasn't unlawfully obtained evidence, it wasn't evidence at all. It had nothing to do with bad faith. There is a procedure for proving a particular state of affairs existed. Unless the procedure is followed correctly then the state of affairs in question can't be proven to have existed.

Carlos Orange

4ensic15 wrote: »

This wasn't unlawfully obtained evidence, it wasn't evidence at all. It had nothing to do with bad faith. There is a procedure for proving a particular state of affairs existed. Unless the procedure is followed correctly then the state of affairs in question can't be proven to have existed.

I'll have some of whatever you are smoking.

PopePalpatine

Is this about to devolve into FOTL shite?

FloatingVoter

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Is this about to devolve into FOTL shite?

Fruit of the Loom do some great clothes. As for devolving - I'm on popcorn from hereon-in.