Are you willing to learn Irish to keep the language alive

megaten

Nope,no aptitude for language. That said I went to a gaelscoil so I could speak and read a fair bit as a child but terrible secondary school teachers took care or that.

Reoil

We had to learn it for one year in school here in Norn Iron.
French and German, we had to study for three years.
Unfortunately, I see it as a foreign language.
It's less prominent than Welsh but more prominent than Scots-Gaelic.

corner of hells

Some of my family use it day to day , I've practically no Irish at all , theres something unnerving about my three year old niece talking fluently in it ...I know shes talking about me ,crazy little fecker.

Geniass

Reoil wrote: »

It's less prominent than Welsh but more prominent than Scots-Gaelic.

I'd be surprised if this is true. What makes you think this?

ballinasloex

God no the English language is challenging enough

Grayson

Ficheall wrote: »

How is it pretentious?


OT: I speak Irish on a daily basis, but I don't know if I'd learn it now if I didn't know it. That said, I wouldn't study history, geography, or art either..

That's the weird thing. I don't want to start leaning a new language like Irish. I'd hardly ever use it and to be honest I don't think I'd enjoy it. That being said I love art and history. I love learning about other cultures (which is part of geography). I probably know a lot more about Irish history than most.

I don't have children but if I ever do, I don't mind them learning Irish. On one condition, It can't be the same way we learned it in school. Otherwise it's a waste of time. They'd probably sit there for years and learn nothing, the way 99% of us did.

Manach

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Is Duolingo any good?

Yes. Put in about 10m a day and available on mobile. Never going to be fluent from it but will aid in remembering dormant skills.

Lollipop95

God no! Last time I properly spoke irish was in school (which made me hate the language) during my leaving cert oral exam and I've no intention of ever speaking it again!

bnt

It seems to me (as a very West Brit) that the language is only in schools at all due to Politics, the official requirement of the Irish State to be "not British". Without that, I think you'd be calling it "Gaelic" (translated from Gaeilge), not "Irish", and it would be to Ireland as Scots Gaelic is to Scotland. As opposed to Welsh, which also has official status (since 2011), and also for political reasons.

Geniass

bnt wrote: »

It seems to me (as a very West Brit) I think you'd be calling it "Gaelic" (translated from Gaeilge), not "Irish",

Nah, when you speak a language you use the word used in the language you are using.

For example when speaking Irish you use Béarla for English.

Similarly when speaking English the correct word to use is Irish for the Irish language.

jackofalltrades

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Making all primary schools gaelscoileanna would'nt be that difficult and it would revive the language.

This is just a further extension of forcing Irish onto people, which just makes them hate it.
Let the people who want to send their kids to a gaelscoil do that and leave the parents that don't well alone.

Dirty Dingus McGee

jackofalltrades wrote: »

This is just a further extension of forcing Irish onto people, which just makes them hate it.
Let the people who want to send their kids to a gaelscoil do that and leave the parents that don't well alone.

But again it proves my point as the children won't hate it as children are too young to make judgments like that.They would see it as a natural thing and it wouldn't negatively impact their lives (in spite of what large amounts of people would say).

It would be the parents of the children that are the problem.

Children are forced to do lots of things in their lives and they have to get on with it.

My idea is probably the only realistic way of reviving the language as understandably the vast majority of people don't want to put an effort into it.

jackofalltrades

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It would be the parents of the children that are the problem.

Exactly you're taking away the choice that parents have in the school that they choose.
People get understandably upset when you take their choices away.
You're also forcing them to have to relearn a language that they could hate, so as to be able to help their kids out with their homework.

My idea is probably the only realistic way of reviving the language as understandably the vast majority of people don't want to put an effort into it.

Which is their choice and it should be respected.

Dirty Dingus McGee

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Exactly you're taking away the choice that parents have in the school that they choose.
People get understandably upset when you take their choices away.
You're also forcing them to have to relearn a language that they could hate, so as to be able to help their kids out with their homework.

Which is their choice and it should be respected.

Fair enough.Then the language will more than likely die out which is sad in my opinion.

Peoples choices are taken away from them constantly and they have to get on with it.We have no choice but to pay taxes, obey the law etc.If the government decided that from now on all primary schools were to teach everything in irish and it was to be the spoken language in schools people would have to get on with it and it wouldn't have any negative impact on the children.

An Ciarraioch

Even if you do know Irish, the catch-22 scenario often arises whereby you want to speak it, but you don't want to force the other person to speak it if they don't know any, yet the only way to know if they do have Irish is to speak it yourself.

SEPT 23 1989

I have not heard that language spoken in the real world since i left school twenty years ago

Stop flogging a dead horse and put the money into something your average kid might use in their future

Irish Guitarist

Learning it in school was enough misery to last me a lifetime. I know maybe five Irish words but I couldn't speak or write even one coherent Irish sentence. That's not because I've forgotten it. I just never picked it up in school. I spent twelve years of my life listening to nonsense and just not taking in any of it. Everything that was taught in Irish class just went in one ear and out the other.

It also turned me off of learning other languages. By the time I started secondary school and started taking French and German classes I already had the idea in my head that I was no good at learning languages. I still can't speak French or German.

jackofalltrades

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Peoples choices are taken away from them constantly and they have to get on with it.We have no choice but to pay taxes, obey the law etc.

Given the increasing liberal trend in law making in Western democracies, I think you'd get a lot of opposition if you started going in the opposite direction.

If the government decided that from now on all primary schools were to teach everything in irish and it was to be the spoken language in schools people would have to get on with it and it wouldn't have any negative impact on the children.

Could they legally do this? I don't think they could.
I'd say this would be incredibly unpopular with the public.
It would overnight make it very difficult for non-Irish speakers to help their children with their homework.
That and you'd be increasing the workload of children who are already struggling to learn English.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But again it proves my point as the children won't hate it as children are too young to make judgments like that.They would see it as a natural thing and it wouldn't negatively impact their lives (in spite of what large amounts of people would say).

It would be the parents of the children that are the problem.

Children are forced to do lots of things in their lives and they have to get on with it.

My idea is probably the only realistic way of reviving the language as understandably the vast majority of people don't want to put an effort into it.

You made the exact same comemnt in the other thread and it was rebuked in the exact same way: doing something simply because you're told to is stupid. Doing it because it's nessecary, isn't. When I pointed this out, you said "fair enough" - what's changed in those last few hours?

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Fair enough.Then the language will more than likely die out which is sad in my opinion.

Peoples choices are taken away from them constantly and they have to get on with it.We have no choice but to pay taxes, obey the law etc.If the government decided that from now on all primary schools were to teach everything in irish and it was to be the spoken language in schools people would have to get on with it and it wouldn't have any negative impact on the children.

You want to take choice away from people and endorse it as a good thing...? That's just... insane.

You're whole attitude is exactly the problem at the moment: people think they can just force their will onto larger groups in order achieve a personal goal and said groups will just "get on with it".

Boy are you in for a rude awakening if that moment ever comes to pass.

KomradeBishop

Considering how much time and money has been wasted teaching Irish to just about every single person natively born the country, I think it can be considered one of the biggest wastes of public and intellectual resources in the entire country - and I can not understand how it is still a mandatory subject.

Galwayguy35

No.

That miserable oul wan Peig put me off Irish for life.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You made the exact same comemnt in the other thread and it was rebuked in the exact same way: doing something simply because you're told to is stupid. Doing it because it's nessecary, isn't. When I pointed this out, you said "fair enough" - what's changed in those last few hours?




You want to take choice away from people and endorse it as a good thing...? That's just... insane.

You're whole attitude is exactly the problem at the moment: people think they can just force their will onto larger groups in order achieve a personal goal and said groups will just "get on with it".

Boy are you in for a rude awakening if that moment ever comes to pass.

I said fair enough to the argument that people should do it if they wanted to but I also added that it would probably lead to the extinction of the language.

I would suspect the only way to revive the language is to simply have children educated through it so they speak it constantly for 8 hours a day and then by the time they leave primary school will be fluent and be using the language when talking to their friends etc.

If the government simply made it a rule that all primary schools had to teach through Irish people would have to deal with it and get on with it and there would be no negative to it and the children would not mind either as they wouldn't know any better.

Children are forced to do lots of subjects that have no practical benefit and nobody has the slightest issue with it, so why does this attitude change when it comes to Irish.

Dughorm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If the government simply made it a rule that all primary schools had to teach through Irish people would have to deal with it and get on with it and there would be no negative to it and the children would not mind either as they wouldn't know any better.

Children are forced to do lots of subjects that have no practical benefit and nobody has the slightest issue with it, so why does this attitude change when it comes to Irish.

But that's completely unrealistic - why should parents have no choice in the matter? And there would be a negative - children wouldn't learn as much English so our rankings in international reading tests would suffer and as well as that learning maths through Irish would be no joke for your average student.

What are all these subjects with no practical benefit by the way?

Reiver

ihavenoname3 wrote: »

I heard a guy talking to his kids in Irish in a supermarket recently, more giving out to them, but if I am honest I was cringing for him, it seemed like he was showing off using Irish. then he got his change from the cashier and said cheers lol. it is sad that these days people who give their kids Irish names, speak Irish and send their kids to gaelscoil's come across as pretentious (the people who dont live in Gaeltacht areas). I don't think Irish should be compulsory in schools.

Plenty of native speakers live outside the Gaeltacht whether because of work/studies/whatever.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dughorm wrote: »

But that's completely unrealistic - why should parents have no choice in the matter? And there would be a negative - children wouldn't learn as much English so our rankings in international reading tests would suffer and as well as that learning maths through Irish would be no joke for your average student.

What are all these subjects with no practical benefit by the way?

Parents don't have a choice on whether they send their children to school so if all schools have to teach through Irish they will just have to get on with it.

Depends on what job you have but as I am in Financial services anything above the basics in most things has no practical benefit: English,Maths,Geography,History etc don't really have a

I work with people from Spain,Germany and France and they all could speak English perfectly and at the same time not forget how to speak their native tongue whey would people from Ireland be any different from them.

I am not saying the government should bring this rule in what I am saying is that it is probably the only thing that would work.

If Irish was never spoken again I could live with it but it's sad to see the language die and what I suggest is probably the only thing that could possibly revive it.It won't be revived by people who want to do it learning it themselves s there simply isn't enough people who are interested in it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I said fair enough to the argument that people should do it if they wanted to but I also added that it would probably lead to the extinction of the language.

I would suspect the only way to revive the language is to simply have children educated through it so they speak it constantly for 8 hours a day and then by the time they leave primary school will be fluent and be using the language when talking to their friends etc.

If the government simply made it a rule that all primary schools had to teach through Irish people would have to deal with it and get on with it and there would be no negative to it and the children would not mind either as they wouldn't know any better.

Children are forced to do lots of subjects that have no practical benefit and nobody has the slightest issue with it, so why does this attitude change when it comes to Irish.

Again, covered all these points previously. To recap: you have no right to take freedom of choice and freedom of expession away from people. Education should be moving away from this idea, not right into it. Being forced to do things that have no practical benefit is the core of the problem - especially where children and education are concerned and people DO have a problem with it - and yet you're using it as justification for a purely selfish motive.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Again, covered all these points previously. To recap: you have no right to take freedom of choice and freedom of expession away from people. Being forced to do things that have no practical benefit is the core of the problem - especially where children and education are concerned and people DO have a problem with it - and yet you're using it as justification for a purely selfish motive.

But people don't have freedom of choice or freedom of expression.Your not allowed to do anything that is illegal without being punished.The government decides for the public what their freedoms are.

Selling drugs only harms the person who uses them yet you'll get sent to jail for possessing them because the government decides that is what they want to do.

Real freedom doesn't exist anymore.

Iwasfrozen

Are you willing to learn Irish to keep the language alive?

lol no. Let it die if no one wants to speak it.

Iwasfrozen

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Parents don't have a choice on whether they send their children to school so if all schools have to teach through Irish they will just have to get on with it.

Depends on what job you have but as I am in Financial services anything above the basics in most things has no practical benefit: English,Maths,Geography,History etc don't really have a

I work with people from Spain,Germany and France and they all could speak English perfectly and at the same time not forget how to speak their native tongue whey would people from Ireland be any different from them.

I am not saying the government should bring this rule in what I am saying is that it is probably the only thing that would work.

If Irish was never spoken again I could live with it but it's sad to see the language die and what I suggest is probably the only thing that could possibly revive it.It won't be revived by people who want to do it learning it themselves s there simply isn't enough people who are interested in it.

I don't want my child educated through Irish. That is within my rights as a parent.

Also teacher's unions wouldn't agree to it so the idea would be a total non-starter. (omg unions actually do something useful!)

Reiver

Learning it right now.

Working as an English teacher abroad but I'd like to get into primary teaching when I'm back. Dropped down into pass when I was 6th year so I don't meet the language requirement, have to get an equivalent qualification so I can be eligible. I'll be heading back to the Gaeltacht for a week to give me a hand since it'll make a nice break working from the book.

Been working abroad most summers for the last 4 years, emigrated after graduating last year. Having been in Catalonia, Austria, Switzerland and now Poland, I see the pride people have in their languages and how its no detriment having to learn one. Alot of them here come out knowing English and German pretty well in addition to their own native language.

Cousin is married to a native speaker and the child now is able to switch effortlessly between the two. Fantastic to listen to.

DoYouEvenLift

No, but I respect other people willing to learn to speak it fluently. I'd rather learn a language like Spanish that can be used in lots of places, it would give you the option of being able to move and live in Spanish speaking areas which would have better opportunities than any Gaeltacht areas.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't want my child educated through Irish. That is within my rights as a parent.

Also teacher's unions wouldn't agree to it so the idea would be a total non-starter. (omg unions actually do something useful!)

Yes but the point I am making is that it wouldn't be within your right as a parent if the Government decided to change the laws and make it mandatory for all children to be educated in Irish.

Reiver

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

No, but I respect other people willing to learn to speak it fluently. I'd rather learn a language like Spanish that can be used in lots of places, it would give you the option of being able to move and live in Spanish speaking areas.

Are you learning Spanish? I always found the Latin base for it a great hand, it's like you can sort of guess the vocabulary and puzzle it out half the time.

Stojkovic

If it was taught in schools when I was a kid and not bet into us with a big stick telling a story about some depressing grumpy aul bag on the Blaskets then maybe the language wouldnt be dying.
The teachers are 100% to blame for that.

I loved French at school and I am learning Spanish at the moment.

rosobel

Simple fact is the Irish language is ugly, there is nothing poetic or beautiful about it. French, Italian, Spanish and even Russian roll off the tongue but speaking Irish is like speaking Klingon, you don't pronounce words you spit them. If there was a lot more vowels and a lot less consonants it would probably be more appealing but as it is now it is ugly and that whole thing with a fadda (sp?) over a vowel making it then sound like a different vowel is an exercise in redundancy, like why not just use the intended vowel in the first place?

Dughorm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Parents don't have a choice on whether they send their children to school so if all schools have to teach through Irish they will just have to get on with it.....

I fail to see how this would be in any way helpful tbh - people before ideology!

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Depends on what job you have but as I am in Financial services anything above the basics in most things has no practical benefit: English,Maths,Geography,History etc don't really have a

I work with people from Spain,Germany and France and they all could speak English perfectly ....

Surely you needed your primary school maths to check your calculations, english for your emails in your FS job and your geography to even know where Spain, Germany and France are? All from primary school days my friend

I've been using Duolingo to refresh my memory. I was quite good at Irish in school, was one of my best subjects in fact, but I never used it outside the classroom and as such never really had a chance to gain proper fluency. I know Irish is taught very poorly but the curriculum can only be blamed to a certain extent if students aren't gonna bother putting in the effort to learn it anyway.

I do think following the model that the Welsh and the Isle of Man are using would be very beneficial: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/apr/02/how-manx-language-came-back-from-dead-isle-of-man

Having more Gaelscoileanna would be a huge thing. I know people say that they want their kids to learn more STEM subjects because they're more useful, but surely if they were taught as Gaeilge then the children won't be losing any STEM knowledge while gaining more knowledge of Irish?

DoYouEvenLift

Reiver wrote: »

Are you learning Spanish? I always found the Latin base for it a great hand, it's like you can sort of guess the vocabulary and puzzle it out half the time.

No, but I plan to. I learned French but haven't bothered trying to remain fluent in it since I'll probably never visit France again but I'll definitely be visiting/living in Spain and/or other Spanish speaking countries so I'd like to be able to give a strong effort at talking to them in their own language. Gonna use stuff like Duolingo to learn the basics and go from there.


You learned Latin?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dughorm wrote: »

I fail to see how this would be in any way helpful tbh - people before ideology!



Surely you needed your primary school maths to check your calculations, english for your emails in your FS job and your geography to even know where Spain, Germany and France are? All from primary school days my friend

They are just basics.You din't read what I said I said anything above the basics in those classes has been fairly worthless.

Maybe it wouldn't be helpful but I don't think there would be any other way of reviving the language. Children wouldn't mind having to be taught in it as they don't know any better at that age.

Iwasfrozen

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Yes but the point I am making is that it wouldn't be within your right as a parent if the Government decided to change the laws and make it mandatory for all children to be educated in Irish.

That implies rights can be removed at the whim of the government. I've never protested but I would protest that.

Reiver

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

No, but I plan to. I learned French but haven't bothered trying to remain fluent in it since I'll probably never visit France again but I'll definitely be visiting/living in Spain and/or other Spanish speaking countries so I'd like to be able to give a strong effort at talking to them in their own language. Gonna use stuff like Duolingo to learn the basics and go from there.


You learned Latin?

Fairplay Duolingo is a great way to get the basics and start off, you'll have a better idea of what resources you want to use after it.

Nah, but a lot of our fancy English words have the same root. Used to teach in Spain and the kids were bewildered by the word balance, I said equilibrium and they all started nodding sagely and murmuring "si, equilibria" or something along those lines. Half the time if yer stuck you can just chance pronouncing the word in English with a Spanish accent and ye might get it

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

Having more Gaelscoileanna would be a huge thing. I know people say that they want their kids to learn more STEM subjects because they're more useful, but surely if they were taught as Gaeilge then the children won't be losing any STEM knowledge while gaining more knowledge of Irish?

Estonian kids are learning programming in school. Java might be a more useful language than Irish.

In many ways we're already behind other countries. Our Primary teachers all have to learn Irish and Religion. Most have very little STEM knowledge.

To be fair, most teachers aren't fluent in Irish either. Where would we get the people to teach in Irish.

Think of the between 1 and 1 1/2 hours spent teaching those Religion and Irish everyday already.

To recover Irish we do need to start from scratch and ditch the way it's been taught already but I have no idea if it's even possible to do that.

beks101

I really don't get this hate for the Irish language. Maybe it's rooted in the archaic and immensely soul-destroyingly boring way it's taught in schools, with out-dated poems and plays and concepts that young people can't relate to. Can't say it was ever my favourite language at school.

I've lived abroad for several years now though and it's been immensely useful as well as enjoyable as a sort of back-room language I can use among Irish friends. So many slang words or terms we use have their roots in it - what's the craic, thanks a million, etc - there's a fascinating read on this called 'How the Irish invented Slang' by Daniel Cassidy.

I work for an American TV Network, and I've found it really handy professionally. Just the other day I was able to translate the results of the Irish referendum and send them out to the entire company ahead of our competitors, becausethe returning officer in Dublin Castle Ríona Ní Fhlanghaile announced them in Irish first. We're talking a few seconds here - but the world of live network news, this makes a world of difference.

I've also found myself translating Sean Nos songs for feature stories, shooting material with an Irish literature class in a Canadian university and doing rough translations of the material to write up a script for a Canadian news story from my desk etc. From my perspective as a journalist it's certainly not dead or useless. It's not as fundamental to what I do as Arabic would be for sure - but it's definitely been a unique selling point for me. It's played into our coverage of Irish events.

54and56

No, languages which don't have a practical purpose die off as a predominantly spoken language. Why shouldn't Irish? Sentimentality isn't a good enough reason and isn't sustainable in the long term. It might take a number of generations but as a natively spoken language it will be gone. That's not to say it won't live on in Gael schools as a historical relic. If people are motivated by culture and history to learn and speak it part time that's fine with me.

Tombi!

I am. Went to a gaelscoil and never used it outside since I left. Years later and a fair bit of it is still in my head . I intend to make sure I become fluent in it.

Grayson

Tiger Tank wrote: »

Why would it not be possible to change a curriculum?

Curriculum change is one thing. Getting trained teachers is another. If we decided to teach say Java to kids, where do we get the teachers who know Java? And can you imagine getting every teacher in the country to learn Java in their holidays?

The same goes for Irish.

VG31

The big problem with Irish in schools is how it's taught. They don't teach Irish like they do with French, German, Spanish etc. where students are taught basic grammar, phrases and vocabulary.
I remember Irish in primary school being the teacher speaking in class and you were somehow expected to pick it up from that.
There was no structured teaching like with other European languages.
I'd go as far to say I learned more French in first year than Irish in all my years in primary school.

Bayberry

salmocab wrote: »

My nephew was excused Irish in school as apparently he has a learning difficulty. It was the first thing that he was allowed drop. My Irish is abysmal because in secondary school I had very poor teacher and I had no interest, not sure which came first. I would love to learn it properly even just to have reasonable conversational Irish. I think a different approach to teaching needs to be taken.

Stick Duolingo on your Mobile and do a module whenever you have 10 minutes to spare. The mobile client doesn't do much about explaining things, you need to log into the website for that, but for those of us who have 12 years of school Irish somewhere back in the recesses of our minds, it helps bring it back.

Still can't get my head around the Tuiseal Ginneadach though!

Bayberry

Raf32 wrote: »

Probably the most useless subject I have ever studied.

Personally, I begrudge the time I wasted on Shakepeare far more.

jackofalltrades

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Yes but the point I am making is that it wouldn't be within your right as a parent if the Government decided to change the laws and make it mandatory for all children to be educated in Irish.

I'd say any rule to force children to be educated through Irish, would fall foul of Article 42 of the constitution.

ARTICLE 42

1 The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.

2 Parents shall be free to provide this education in their homes or in private schools or in schools recognised or established by the State

If you couldn't speak Irish then you would be denying a parent their right to educate their child.
That's my non-professional understanding of it.