Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

Suaimhneach

I feel that way about coming home - is England the best compromise? Better opportunities, cost of living, property, and only an hour from home. I was thinking "I could go home once or twice a month", but then I was thinking "whats the point of living in the UK at all in that case". I will try Ireland for at least a year, I can see myself settling, but if it doesnt work I am willing to try East Cost US or UK.

CelticRambler

Shelga wrote: »

It's like it's the same but different here.

That can be the worst of all worlds, and I know it was a part of why I didn't want to continue living in the UK. A relatively small part, in the overall scheme of things, but there all the same.

As for the quick trips home. Yeah, I had that idea too. I'm now 1000 km from Dublin and get back there more often than I did when I was in Kent. Those short distances can be deceptively long. My "German" sister makes more trips to Dublin than me in a year. I referred to her way back in this thread when we were talking about savings/building up a nest egg. Last week, I found out just how little of that she's managed to achieve in three years - she's actually in debt to my other sister :eek: ... ... and a sizeable amount of that seems to be accounted for by her travelling expenses (including school-age children).

Having spent more than a decade in both situations, I'd definitely avoid the "the same but different" scenario. For me, I'm no longer in any doubt. I came home on Monday to find a hole in the roof, letting the rain into my bedroom, and the power was off so my fridge and freezer had both defrosted, flooding their respective rooms. :mad:

And I don't care! I feel happier than ever to be really home. I've been offered three short contracts for Dec/Jan/Feb, so I'm going to tile the toilet/shower next month. Having re-done the sums yet again, I can definitely have a better quality of life working 20 weeks a year for 30% of what I'd earn in Ireland, where I'd have to work full time for twelve months. So I'm no longer thinking about "coming home" ...

Does this mean I've got to log out of this thread now?

Suaimhneach

Hey CelticRambler - plz dont leave!

I think, when we have the forum (*fingers crossed*) we will have a thread for people who came home and end up leaving again, for many and various reasons. Likewise, as we flip back and forth between we should go/we should stay, it's healthy to have a place to vent/get feedback.

For what it's worth, I try really hard not to make decisions when I am *in* a feeling. Like, right now you're frustrated, rightfully so, because of the leak (sounds ****, sorry). I wouldnt want to make a big decision about moving when I was feeling angry.

That being said seems like you have other concerns like savings etc.

Though I am a bit confused about where you are...

CelticRambler

Oh, I'm not at all frustrated!

Quite the opposite. As I mentioned a few posts back, I didn't even get to the end of my two weeks in Dublin before the niggles started niggling. Nothing particularly bad happened while I was there (well, nothing worse than my mother working her way through all my faults, but that's normal ) and I wasn't desperate to get away.

Instead, all the "trouble" was my return journey - couldn't land for twenty minutes because the French air force babies were in the way, which meant I was leaving the airport at rush-hour, cleared that only to get stuck behind an auld fella doing 60kmh for about 60km of single white line road, and finally arrived home to a wet house.

Despite that, it didn't just feel good to be back, it felt GREAT! :cool: The few lingering doubts I had about where I want to call home for the foreseeable future have been well and truly erased: it's here in my French hovel, surrounded by nature (saw a family of four wild boar crossing the road last night, and six pheasants strolling up the lane this morning :pac: ), no Christmas stuff in the shops in November (not that there are that many shops ), just 5 minutes from the motorway for when I want to go travelling, and live music & dance events for under a tenner almost every weekend. :cool:

I keep Ireland as a holiday destination.

sashafierce

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Suaimhneach

Sorry it isnt working in your favour Sashafierce. Especially if you think you'd like to settle and it's the $$$ that's the issue

Undertow

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thanks for the update Sashafierce! I was thinking that is the reality of life back in Dublin at the moment alright.

Suaimhneach

When we get our own forum, I'll work on getting average house prices and what to expect when moving back. Maybe that will help, and we can help each other.

Wompa1

I'm hopeful that I won't have to live in Dublin when I return. I couldn't see myself living in the UK. There's aspects of the culture that I like there and it's close to Ireland proximity wise but I find many abrasive and arrogant there in a business setting. Those around the cities also aren't as grounded as people in Ireland...in my opinion. I'm bored with London too, which doesn't help me...if you don't drive, the tube is good. If you and your use to the freedom of driving, relying on the tube and putting up with the hassle of it can become a sore point. And of course...the cost! So many different taxes

Suaimhneach

It's such a complicated elixir. It's balance of cost vs reward. It's cost of living, vs ability to tolerate locale-BS (in whatever form that takes, from arrogance to local taxes) with so many dependencies like children, career opportunities, family care obligations. There is no one formula for all people, each person's solution will differ person to person. Most people value things differently. It's a unique decision, that takes a lot of consideration. There is no one answer.

Maybe we can concoct the perfect pros and cons list, and weight each answer, and then help people decide. I am thinking something like:

• Do you have many opportunities at home, career wise?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Do you want to be close to family?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Do you want to live in a city?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Would a long commute be a deal breaker?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Can you afford cost of living on your projected income?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Are you concerned about educational opportunities?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?

Someone smarter than me can then do the math on whether or not you should move home.

Wompa1

Suaimhneach wrote: »

It's such a complicated elixir. It's balance of cost vs reward. It's cost of living, vs ability to tolerate locale-BS (in whatever form that takes, from arrogance to local taxes) with so many dependencies like children, career opportunities, family care obligations. There is no one formula for all people, each person's solution will differ person to person. Most people value things differently. It's a unique decision, that takes a lot of consideration. There is no one answer.

Maybe we can concoct the perfect pros and cons list, and weight each answer, and then help people decide. I am thinking something like:

• Do you have many opportunities at home, career wise?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Do you want to be close to family?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Do you want to live in a city?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Would a long commute be a deal breaker?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Can you afford cost of living on your projected income?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?
• Are you concerned about educational opportunities?
  *** how much does this matter to you personally, on a 1-10 scale?

Someone smarter than me can then do the math on whether or not you should move home.

Use that kind of logic for decisions too. Weight the importance of each item and then answer and give the answer a value....but in the end, you can't really apply an algorithm to something so emotionally driven

CelticRambler

There's a lot to be said for doing a "proper" cost-benefit analysis - I've done it myself - but it's worth adding a line for the unknown opportunities, both educational and career, that might come your way. Of course, by definition there's know way of knowing what these are until your standing there looking at them!

Also, you need to divide "family" into the family you've already got and the family you're hoping/going to have. The parameters for the two don't always match up, so can require more compromise.

catbear

Compromise is the key.

Although I really miss my job I had abroad I do not miss being abroad.

I'm scratching by on a contract here and there since I got back but my wife has got work in her old field.

We consciously avoided Dublin although the way I see it we're watching all the buy to let amateur landlords of the bubble era trying to sell up on the dead cat bounce in property prices which unfortunately means loads of tenants being turfed out!

It a cluster**** of bad planning (no planning actually) coming home to roost but it will pass and then the polies will take the credit for the market stabalising!

sashafierce

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nogoodnamesleft

Ive been "abroad" for the last 4 years living in the UK. I initially came over to the UK to study for a MSc and ended up getting a job offer from a multinational for when I graduated and remained here since as I progressed quickly to a mid- senior position within a large engineering company.

I worked in Ireland after I finished my degree and I had a very negative experience of the Irish taxation system as well as how the rules can be bent due to political reasons. In my experience this was with the company pension fund which was utilised to keep a mid sized company afloat (employees salary was deducted each month as normal however this was never remitted within 21 days to the nominated pension fund). This was reported to the regulator and the cpmpany finance dept was "warned". However this didnt protect the staff who lost money for when the company eventually went bust as the continued the practice even after the "warning".

The USC was also crippling (this was the lower rate before it really took hold!).

In 2011 I had the opportunity to return to do a MSc and to either do it in Ireland or the UK. I chose the latter and haven't looked back since.

The pros with the UK.

• Salary (I would be on about half my salary at home most of it going to the tax man)
• Opportunity
• Skill set development
• Networking
• Less Income tax 40% rate comes into being around £42k as opposed to ireland at 32k EUR.
• NO USC
• I can travel home easily (1hour flight)
  

Cons:

• Away from home and immediate family
• Cheaper property in Ireland generally
• Depending on circumstance the cost of living can be variable. Living on your own or have dependents as property depends on postcode as well as if its in the catchment of a certain school.
• Build quality of houses is shocking. A lot of the housing stock is older and insulation was non existent. A mediocre property is also a lot more expensive compared to at home.

I expect to be here for a long time yet as the differential between salary in Ireland and UK is huge. Added into that the fact that the taxation system would leave me about 6-7k worse off if I was on the same salary in Ireland as I am in the UK. I am not taking into account the cost of health care (private health insurance) and higher cost of motoring.

Wompa1

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

Ive been "abroad" for the last 4 years living in the UK. I initially came over to the UK to study for a MSc and ended up getting a job offer from a multinational for when I graduated and remained here since as I progressed quickly to a mid- senior position within a large engineering company.

I worked in Ireland after I finished my degree and I had a very negative experience of the Irish taxation system as well as how the rules can be bent due to political reasons. In my experience this was with the company pension fund which was utilised to keep a mid sized company afloat (employees salary was deducted each month as normal however this was never remitted within 21 days to the nominated pension fund). This was reported to the regulator and the cpmpany finance dept was "warned". However this didnt protect the staff who lost money for when the company eventually went bust as the continued the practice even after the "warning".

The USC was also crippling (this was the lower rate before it really took hold!).

In 2011 I had the opportunity to return to do a MSc and to either do it in Ireland or the UK. I chose the latter and haven't looked back since.

The pros with the UK.

• Salary (I would be on about half my salary at home most of it going to the tax man)
• Opportunity
• Skill set development
• Networking
• Less Income tax 40% rate comes into being around £42k as opposed to ireland at 32k EUR.
• NO USC
• I can travel home easily (1hour flight)
  

Cons:

• Away from home and immediate family
• Cheaper property in Ireland generally
• Depending on circumstance the cost of living can be variable. Living on your own or have dependents as property depends on postcode as well as if its in the catchment of a certain school.
• Build quality of houses is shocking. A lot of the housing stock is older and insulation was non existent. A mediocre property is also a lot more expensive compared to at home.

I expect to be here for a long time yet as the differential between salary in Ireland and UK is huge. Added into that the fact that the taxation system would leave me about 6-7k worse off if I was on the same salary in Ireland as I am in the UK. I am not taking into account the cost of health care (private health insurance) and higher cost of motoring.

I think the income tax bracket for a single person has been raised to 33,800 and the USC has been cut. You'd also likely get a thousand or so back a year if you claim your tax credits.

I had considered a job in London and Manchester. It's probably a lot different in the East Midlands but what I was seeing was spending a lot more in commuting in London. Crazy tax due to living in the city. When I looked at Manchester, the council tax was also pretty off putting. Also, the crime rate was pretty high. It didn't help that the guy interviewing me had to direct me which way to walk when leaving because going to the right would bring me through a bad estate...

I think it's a bit crap in Ireland that the tax bracket for the single person vs a married couple with two earner is so drastically different. I know, a family has more expenses and all but it was very disheartening.

BailMeOut

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

[*]Salary (I would be on about half my salary at home most of it going to the tax man)

are you sure? Unless your UK salary is quite big and the equivalent 'half' in Ireland also being quite large it is very unlikely that most goes to tax man.

Just for grins I did some very basic calculations using two online tax calculators, one in UK and the other in IRL for STG50k and EUR70k (which are about the same in today's fx rate) and for a single person with no credits, pension, etc.... the tax different between UK and IRL is STG3k.

CelticRambler

BailMeOut wrote: »

STG50k ... STG3k.

Point of order: UK salaries are paid in GBP. "STG" refers to sterling silver, which you're unlikely to see in your pay packet. :cool:

In my field of work, I found the salaries and take-home pay to be about the same, regardless of whether I took a job in the UK or Ireland, and the cost of living was a swings-and-roundabouts zero sum. But taking all factors into consideration, I'm financially better off working for less in a completely different place.

However, in the context of this thread and the notion of "coming home", I would think that purely financial motivation is no more important - and possibly less so - than other considerations.

nogoodnamesleft

BailMeOut wrote: »

are you sure? Unless your UK salary is quite big and the equivalent 'half' in Ireland also being quite large it is very unlikely that most goes to tax man.

Just for grins I did some very basic calculations using two online tax calculators, one in UK and the other in IRL for STG50k and EUR70k (which are about the same in today's fx rate) and for a single person with no credits, pension, etc.... the tax different between UK and IRL is STG3k.

Perhaps I should clarify. I would be on effectively half my salary in the sense that I could not remotely attain the package I am on in the UK compared to at home.

Using the same salary the difference when I calculated the taxation difference was approx 6k EUR the largest proportion of that was made up by the USC contribution. I would imagine that this would have dropped a little due to the USC changes in the last budget.

carrotcake

The new forum for returning emigrants has been created! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1726

silja

Mod note: thread moved to the new Coming Home sub-forum

Suaimhneach

Should we start a new pros and cons thread or keep this one going? Maybe we can just split it out when it occasionally derails?

BlackEdelweiss

We (me, wife & 4 kids) moved to New Zealand 3 years ago. We have found it hard to settle here due to homesickness, distance from home, difficulty in maintaining contact with friends and family due to time difference but probably mostly due to how boring NZ is. We did not do much socialising in Ireland due to having 4 young kids but now our kids are older and one is at babysitting age we still do nothing as there is nothing to do. In some ways this is crap but in other ways it is a nice peaceful life and it appears pretty safe for our kids although there was an attempted abduction of an 11 year old girl on our street last week. The kids don't watch much tv, it has probably been replaced by Netflix and YouTube but there is less commercialism here and they are not overly concerned about the latest fashions or gadgets. There are positives and negatives to that as well. Some days my wife and I want nothing more than to move home or at least away from here and then other times we wonder are we crazy thinking of moving our kids back to all the things we thought worth moving them away from in the first place. I could get a job in the uk tomorrow and we are torn about what to do. It is horrible being so uncertain of what you want to do. I have rose tinted glasses about keeping in touch with family and doing more stuff if we came home but I know life would be much the same as before we left with sporadic contact with even close family members. We would love to travel to Europe but with 4 kids that is probably out of reach on an Irish salary.
I would love to move home but I would love to stay away as well.

Suaimhneach

I think you captured everyone's frustrations with these decisions, it can be so hard. I cant imagine how much harder with four kids. Sorry.

Tom Dunne

So I'm handing in my notice next week, which is the first step on the journey home.

A little apprehension, but I know its the right thing to do.

R.D. aka MR.D

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So I'm handing in my notice next week, which is the first step on the journey home.

A little apprehension, but I know its the right thing to do.

Congratulations!

We made the decision in July 2015 and it started to be really real in October.

It's exactly 7 weeks today until we land in Dublin. Honestly, I've been through every emotion and apprehension comes and goes.

I would say the closer we've got the less apprehension I've felt.

I think the hardest thing for both of us it to try to enjoy the time we have left here. We're both so focused on getting to Ireland, we just want to be there already instead of enjoying the moments we are in here.

wuffly

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So I'm handing in my notice next week, which is the first step on the journey home.

A little apprehension, but I know its the right thing to do.

Exciting! Best of luck with it!

We are in the ME as well so will be keeping an eye on how it all goes for you.

Planning to go home for most of the summer on maternity leave, so that will be a bit of a trial run for me!

cactusgal

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

We (me, wife & 4 kids) moved to New Zealand 3 years ago. We have found it hard to settle here due to homesickness, distance from home, difficulty in maintaining contact with friends and family due to time difference but probably mostly due to how boring NZ is. We did not do much socialising in Ireland due to having 4 young kids but now our kids are older and one is at babysitting age we still do nothing as there is nothing to do. In some ways this is crap but in other ways it is a nice peaceful life and it appears pretty safe for our kids although there was an attempted abduction of an 11 year old girl on our street last week. The kids don't watch much tv, it has probably been replaced by Netflix and YouTube but there is less commercialism here and they are not overly concerned about the latest fashions or gadgets. There are positives and negatives to that as well. Some days my wife and I want nothing more than to move home or at least away from here and then other times we wonder are we crazy thinking of moving our kids back to all the things we thought worth moving them away from in the first place. I could get a job in the uk tomorrow and we are torn about what to do. It is horrible being so uncertain of what you want to do. I have rose tinted glasses about keeping in touch with family and doing more stuff if we came home but I know life would be much the same as before we left with sporadic contact with even close family members. We would love to travel to Europe but with 4 kids that is probably out of reach on an Irish salary.
I would love to move home but I would love to stay away as well.

Hey, that's a tough one with four kids. Just wanted to say that I understand your situation somewhat, I lived in New Zealand for 18 months and hated it. I hope you and your family are able to come to the right decision ... I would say move. Life is short, and nothing is worth living in such a faraway, isolated place. Unless you LOVE it. And you don't!

Goat Paddock

Was in new Zealand for almost a year, but with the stress of the Job and not settling in(was relocated between cities for work) ,homesickness etc I came back to Ireland. It's nice in new Zealand though. Might have settled given more time.

Tom Dunne

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So I'm handing in my notice next week, which is the first step on the journey home.

And it's done.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

A little unbelievable amount of apprehension, but I know its the right thing to do.

Now I can sleep again. I really didn't think it would be this difficult, but I can feel the relief already.