Cared-for DID X-ring w/ stiff links after low mileage

rat_race

Hi,

I put a new chain/set of sprockets on my Ninja 250, towards the end of 2012, and looked after the chain. It's a DID X-ring, so a decent chain.

I haven't done that much mileage, and always lubed it, and cleaned it quite regularly; probably much more than average.

I've noticed there are 2 or 3 stuck links...the x-rings appear to still be in there, so they're not missing. The links cannot budge at all. However, they do appear to go around the sprockets without looking out of place, but they definitely don't move.

I've tried aggravating them with a rubber hammer, and some penetrating lube (I know it's bad for the x-rings, especially if it gets past them).

I don't know why this has happened, but I'd like to bring it back to life if possible. These chains on a 250 should last for much much longer...

Soooo, any tips? I' thinking of taking it off and soaking in kerosone, but something tells me that won't help. Maybe I just need to get a new one...

I've given my other 800C bike's chain a much harder time, and the chain is fine.



Cheers,
Cormac

Max Headroom

Is it where the chain was put on..?? might have been over pressed....

rat_race

Max Headroom wrote: »

Is it where the chain was put on..?? might have been over pressed....

Nope, it isn't...I riveted it myself, so it's a fantastic job!

cantdecide

What's your chain lube method? What products do you use? Just to eliminate- you do lube the chain on the 'inside' right?

Wonda-Boy

Do you clean it regular the salt is a nightmare man, need to rinse down bike after every ride TBH.

rat_race

I usually lubed it once every couple of weeks, and probably gave it a good clean every 6 weeks or so. I'd also always visually check the chain, and if it looked dry or dirty, I'd always sort it out ASAP. I look after my chain more than most, from what I've gathered...

I've used different products, usually a spray on wax/lube...Castrol or Rock Oil, etc. Sometimes I'd clean the chain with kerosene first, sometimes not. Would usually wipe off excess, but there usually isn't much. I do always try to lube the whole chain, but I wouldn't always get the plates on the right hand side as much as I should probably, but the rollers and X-rings always got cleaned/lubed properly.

Was touring with a motorbike mechanic (on a different bike) who told me I don't need to look after the chain as much -- but I still do. Two other mechanics who I've had do work for me in the past, commented on my chain maintenance too (i.e., high mileage on the Tiger with lots of chain life left!)...so it isn't neglect.

Anyway, the bike was sitting up for a bit there a while back, but the chain looks in great condition, no rust, nothing; and the good links are nice and loose.

Anyway, am looking for ideas here to free the links up, but it might be the case that if they're seized there's no point fixing them. This is an X-ring DID chain, about 100e...expected more miles out of it.

CJhaughey

Try flexing the stiff links, take the rear wheel out and use a couple of longish screwdrivers to flex the stiff links back and forth, they may free out or they could be corroded inside the link which is pretty final.
Liberal dousing with ATF may help, I wonder if your chain cleaning routine has contributed to the early failure or being laid up?
250's shouldn't eat chains that easily and especially not x-rings.
I'd nearly be tempted to buy a cheap O-ring and stick that on if its really bad.
I have used a cheap O-ring stamped MGM on my NX650 thumper for 3 years with no issues and thumpers are hard on chains compared to twins and 4cyls.

rat_race

CJhaughey wrote: »

Try flexing the stiff links, take the rear wheel out and use a couple of longish screwdrivers to flex the stiff links back and forth, they may free out or they could be corroded inside the link which is pretty final.
Liberal dousing with ATF may help, I wonder if your chain cleaning routine has contributed to the early failure or being laid up?
250's shouldn't eat chains that easily and especially not x-rings.
I'd nearly be tempted to buy a cheap O-ring and stick that on if its really bad.
I have used a cheap O-ring stamped MGM on my NX650 thumper for 3 years with no issues and thumpers are hard on chains compared to twins and 4cyls.

It was never laid up for too long, so really shouldn't have mattered. Yeah I tried wiggling from side to side, and up and down, etc...but I'll have to take the rear wheel off I think, as you said, and try to.

Not sure if my cleaning process affected this. I may have been too liberal with some of the lube, and mixing products/brands may have had a reaction, etc...

For cleaning, I'd normally use kerosene and a brush (not wire, but a fairly stiff brush -- nothing that would hurt your skin though, for example). I'd then wipe it off and let it dry for a while before applying lube.

This is the same bike where my rear swingarm/suspension linkage totally seized one day, major job for me to fix! Only a 2010...used it in all weather/conditions though, as a commuter, quite a lot. About 23k miles.

When I drive it, I don't notice or hear any effects from the stuck links...

Max Headroom

yeah..i think less OCD on the cleaning next time....

fear_factory84

In my experience with my previous bike, vstrom 650 and after 3 set of did 525vx chain, I started thinking that they are sh*te..
After 15k km the xrings started to fray and in long term links became gripped..

Solution? Buy another brand like RK chain (the one I have now on my vstrom 1000).. 18k km and it's like new, same maintenance same lube!!

Wonda-Boy

I have had DID GOLD chains on all of my bikes (last 3) and I never had a problem. Maybe your is genuinely defective? It can happen.....I too use only kerosene to clean my chain and then scottoiler takes over with a small application at first manually.

No harm to leave the chain soaking overnight in kerosene if you think it knackered you have nothing to lose.

fear_factory84

DID Gold is the one with normal orings (round) if I'm not wrong. Like the original did525v8 chain I had on my old vstrom 650 (instead of did525vx).
Those normal oring chain die usually for rust and over extension rather than gripped links (but after many more kms).

Hotblack Desiato

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

I have had DID GOLD chains on all of my bikes (last 3) and I never had a problem. Maybe your is genuinely defective? It can happen.....I too use only kerosene to clean my chain and then scottoiler takes over with a small application at first manually.

No harm to leave the chain soaking overnight in kerosene if you think it knackered you have nothing to lose.

Kerosene isn't much of a lubricant, but it's good at washing grease away, so I certainly wouldn't leave it soaking in kerosene. It's ok for cleaning, but it's recommended to dry it off asap with rags/compressed air, if it's left it'll get in behind the o-rings and dissolve the grease that was packed into the chain when it was new.

If you want to leave it soaking then engine oil would be better, 20W mineral oil would be better than thin synth oil, gear oil would be the best but not cheap (old engine oil is fine for this and is free)

Think the OP is cleaning it too much and washing away all the lube. The point of o-rings or x-rings is to retain the grease that was put in there when the chain was made, the lube you apply after is really only to keep the rings moist and repel water. I never cleaned my chain at all when I had a scottoiler, now that I'm using chain wax I've only cleaned it once in the last year, have adjusted it twice in that time IIRC.

rat_race

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Kerosene isn't much of a lubricant, but it's good at washing grease away, so I certainly wouldn't leave it soaking in kerosene. It's ok for cleaning, but it's recommended to dry it off asap with rags/compressed air, if it's left it'll get in behind the o-rings and dissolve the grease that was packed into the chain when it was new.

If you want to leave it soaking then engine oil would be better, 20W mineral oil would be better than thin synth oil, gear oil would be the best but not cheap (old engine oil is fine for this and is free)

Think the OP is cleaning it too much and washing away all the lube. The point of o-rings or x-rings is to retain the grease that was put in there when the chain was made, the lube you apply after is really only to keep the rings moist and repel water. I never cleaned my chain at all when I had a scottoiler, now that I'm using chain wax I've only cleaned it once in the last year, have adjusted it twice in that time IIRC.

Almost all service manuals recommend cleaning with kerosene, some suggest soaking. I don't think kerosene would penetrate the o-rings (x-rings in this case, actually), or at least it never noticeably has for me on any other chain. But yeah, I'd be happier soaking in oil rather than kerosene!

I'm not cleaning my chain too much or incorrectly. I'd have to disagree that the only point of lubing a x/o-ring chain is to keep the rings moist/repel water. There's sprockets to think of, and external moving parts to a chain too, as well as rust!

The all weather type of riding I do, stuff gets dirty/messy. Not cleaning/lubing as much in my case doesn't make sense. Really think this chain was a dud somehow. I'm still riding it though ...

Wonda-Boy

rat_race wrote: »

Almost all service manuals recommend cleaning with kerosene, some suggest soaking. I don't think kerosene would penetrate the o-rings (x-rings in this case, actually), or at least it never noticeably has for me on any other chain. But yeah, I'd be happier soaking in oil rather than kerosene!

I'm not cleaning my chain too much or incorrectly. I'd have to disagree that the only point of lubing a x/o-ring chain is to keep the rings moist/repel water. There's sprockets to think of, and external moving parts to a chain too, as well as rust!

The all weather type of riding I do, stuff gets dirty/messy. Not cleaning/lubing as much in my case doesn't make sense. Really think this chain was a dud somehow. I'm still riding it though ...

Wax is the worst thing to use on a chain IMO , it holds all the dirt and grit from the roads and is so time consuming cleaning it regularly. You have to take off the 1st application to add more which alot of people don't do. You really do have to maintain a chain you can't just leave it.

In relation to the kerosene I use a damp rag with kero in it and scrub chain then use toothbrush then dry it really well. Chain is like new afterwards then lube with engine oil as my new bike has no scottoiler.

BrokenArrows

rat_race wrote: »

It was never laid up for too long, so really shouldn't have mattered. Yeah I tried wiggling from side to side, and up and down, etc...but I'll have to take the rear wheel off I think, as you said, and try to.

Not sure if my cleaning process affected this. I may have been too liberal with some of the lube, and mixing products/brands may have had a reaction, etc...

For cleaning, I'd normally use kerosene and a brush (not wire, but a fairly stiff brush -- nothing that would hurt your skin though, for example). I'd then wipe it off and let it dry for a while before applying lube.

This is the same bike where my rear swingarm/suspension linkage totally seized one day, major job for me to fix! Only a 2010...used it in all weather/conditions though, as a commuter, quite a lot. About 23k miles.

When I drive it, I don't notice or hear any effects from the stuck links...

You're complaining that you have a few kinks in a chain after 23k miles
Thats alot of millage. Id fully expect there to be kinks and ceased links in it!

Hotblack Desiato

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Wax is the worst thing to use on a chain IMO , it holds all the dirt and grit from the roads

the wax (S-Doc 100) isn't sticky at all. I've used sticky lubes in the past and they do attract a lot of dirt.

In relation to the kerosene I use a damp rag with kero in it and scrub chain then use toothbrush then dry it really well.

Exactly the kerosene has to be cleaned off, it doesn't do the chain any good if you allow it to penetrate past the o-rings.

Wonda-Boy

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

the wax (S-Doc 100) isn't sticky at all. I've used sticky lubes in the past and they do attract a lot of dirt.



Exactly the kerosene has to be cleaned off, it doesn't do the chain any good if you allow it to penetrate past the o-rings.

I have heard the S Doc stuff is very good but pricey, and the kerosene really does take dirt off like a hot knife through butter.

rat_race

BrokenArrows wrote: »

You're complaining that you have a few kinks in a chain after 23k miles
Thats alot of millage. Id fully expect there to be kinks and ceased links in it!

Yeah, but it's a 250, the chain should last a decent amount of time. And the bike mileage is 23k miles, not the chain...the chain is about 10k I'd say...

BrokenArrows

rat_race wrote: »

Yeah, but it's a 250, the chain should last a decent amount of time. And the bike mileage is 23k miles, not the chain...the chain is about 10k I'd say...

ah ok. Ya 10k is a bit early.
When you're adjusting the chain are you sure you are aligning the rear wheel correctly afterwards. If its misaligned then it will cause the chain to bend and increase wear.

Hotblack Desiato

Even though it's only a 250, twins (and singles) are harder on chains.