Rental house left in shocking condition.

athtrasna

Mod note: A&P is not the place for mental health discussions please.

Tow

See and cleaned worse... Brings back memories of used tampons under the beds.

Stepping Stone

Years ago, I rented an apartment on the ground floor under a family that I can only describe as living hell. The noise, the hours, the violence (you could hear the beatings and crying) was nothing on the smell when the windows were open. They used to drop rubbish down from the balcony and windows.

I was blue in the face from complaining to the management company, the landlord and the Gardai. Nobody wanted to know.

I came back from holiday to find that they had been in a massive fight and moved out in the middle of the night. They had left behind something similar and they had left the taps running.

awec

I can't get my head around the logistics of taking a crap on the floor.

Cuddlesworth

awec wrote: »

I can't get my head around the logistics of taking a crap on the floor.

Drop kaks. Squat. At that point it's quite natural. Then stand up, pick up a towel or something close, wipe and throw the towel on top of the poop. Sorted.

CollyFlower

awec wrote: »

I can't get my head around the logistics of taking a crap on the floor.

They blocked the 3 toilets, they had to use something. I wonder how that works (****ting into a plastic bag) would one person have to hold the bag while the other one did their business.?

pwurple

That's pretty bad. you feel you need a fully ventilated hazmat suit to even go in the door there.

Mine have never been that bad, thank feck. Plenty of damage done... Doors torn off hinges and smashed... Walls damaged from furniture being thrown at them etc. but no bodily fluids so far.

That family has only reinforced some landlord's view of rent allowance anyway.

Chloris

Chemical Byrne wrote:

My sister rents out a few places and she is rigorous in vetting tenants. She only rents to actual professionals who have a bit of responsibility. She makes this quite clear and she won't touch those in manual occupations let alone RA tenants. Of course there are exceptions but in general she would be of the opinion that those from a lower socioeconomic stratum have a greater tendency to antisocial behaviour of all types.

Stand back. We've got a graduate on our hands.

whippet

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

That is terrible but to be honest with you man, my sympathy is a bit limited. If they were moving on to a caravan then its pretty certain they are, er, "members of a certain community" and, rights and wrongs of it aside, in most cases they can be identified a mile off. You should have been on your game and vetted them properly.
.

to be fair it was the first time I let it out and I had trusted an EA with the whole thing .. I didn't know who the tenant was.

After that experience I became the polar opposite and was very selective with my tenants .. probably could be accused of being racist, stereotyping, bigoted etc .. but I was protecting my asset. Didn't have any more real problems after that.

gaius c

Landlord has to ship some blame for this. Did they meet the tenants before they moved in? Did they carry out proper checks? Did they inspect their property at all during the tenancy?

Cold War Kid

What responsibility the landlord has is minimal IMO. They have the right to inspect the property (with advance notice given, and at time that suits the tenant(s)) every three to four months, and I guess they should, but I don't think they *have* to.

Chloris

Our landlord hasn't visited our property in the last year. We had some repairs done about three months ago and he called the builder to arrange the repair, notified us that the builder would be coming and the builder called him to tell him that the repairs had been done. We haven't interacted with him other than that since our one-year contract elapsed eight months ago and I texted to tell him we'd extend it for three years. It suits us perfectly; we take excellent care of the house for him and he leaves us alone. He determined that we were trustworthy tenants; although we have the odd mad party, nothing is ever damaged and we don't cause any trouble.

If you somehow bring in a bunch of hoodlums who you have to babysit, you'll know within the first two months. Start the eviction process immediately then! There are so many excellent tenants who are desperately seeking a house. It's a property owner's market, not a renter's one. I don't know how these tenants get away with it, to be honest - isn't there a risk of becoming homeless because you haven't got a reference?

gaius c

Cold War Kid wrote: »

What responsibility the landlord has is minimal IMO. They have the right to inspect the property (with advance notice given, and at time that suits the tenant(s)) every three to four months, and I guess they should, but I don't think they *have* to.

Would you give your car to somebody for 12 months and not check up on it at any stage over the 12 months?

So why then would you give an asset worth at least 10 times what your car is worth to somebody and not check the condition of it at regular intervals?

You also ignored my point about vetting the tenants properly. With tenants this bad, it is impossible that there could have been no warning signs beforehand.

MrWalsh

Cold War Kid wrote: »

What responsibility the landlord has is minimal IMO. They have the right to inspect the property (with advance notice given, and at time that suits the tenant(s)) every three to four months, and I guess they should, but I don't think they *have* to.

They dont *have* to but if you ignore the welfare of your asset then you cant really complain when you find it destroyed.

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

Landlord has to ship some blame for this. Did they meet the tenants before they moved in? Did they carry out proper checks? Did they inspect their property at all during the tenancy?

Only in Ireland would the landlord get even a fraction of the blame for his tenants decision to defaecate into a bin bag rather than use the toilets provided.

murphaph

MrWalsh wrote: »

They dont *have* to but if you ignore the welfare of your asset then you cant really complain when you find it destroyed.

Of course you can complain. It takes a few minutes to destroy a house if the malicious intent is there so you could check it once a day and still be caught. The tenant is responsible. End of story.

MrWalsh

murphaph wrote: »

Of course you can complain. It takes a few minutes to destroy a house if the malicious intent is there so you could check it once a day and still be caught. The tenant is responsible. End of story.

Please, those photos show a pattern of neglect. Going on months if not years.

MarkAnthony

I'm sorry but the landlord does shoulder some of the blame. Mod warnings stop me from passing certain comments but what's clear is that living next door to those pigs couldn't have been pleasant. If the LL can't be arsed properly vetting tenants and doing proper inspections they can expect problems.

Now do I think there is any justification for the mess the house was left in, of course not.

Lux23

Chloris wrote: »

There are so many excellent tenants who are desperately seeking a house. It's a property owner's market, not a renter's one. I don't know how these tenants get away with it, to be honest - isn't there a risk of becoming homeless because you haven't got a reference?

I am looking the last three weeks for a place - myself and my partner both have 'professional' jobs and we have references, yet finding a decent place has so far eluded us. I was out of work last year and I found a place much faster, I am convinced this was because I was able to attend viewings straight away and I suited letting agents that couldn't be bothered to do viewings after 6pm.

So maybe some landlords are just taking the first people who come along and not bothering to do any proper checks.

murphaph

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I'm sorry but the landlord does shoulder some of the blame. Mod warnings stop me from passing certain comments but what's clear is that living next door to those pigs couldn't have been pleasant. If the LL can't be arsed properly vetting tenants and doing proper inspections they can expect problems.

Now do I think there is any justification for the mess the house was left in, of course not.

The landlord remains blameless. Possibly he was naive, but we can't know that for sure. He may or may not have "properly vetted" the tenants. There's only so much one can do. Some of the most shocking tenants were apparently like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths when they initially met their landlords. These people don't go around with "slob" tattooed on their foreheads. How often do people think landlords should be inspecting? The tenant is entitled to some peaceful enjoyment of their home as well.

I agree that any LL should be extremely thorough when vetting tenants but even if he is not, he is not to blame when those tenants treat a property like that one. The landlord should be pitied, but that is anathema to most Irish, who generally try to ascribe some wrongdoing to the landlord wherever possible...even if totally unreasonably.

You can be sure the poor sod is blaming himself for not checking the place more often or asking for bank statements or requiring a 3 month deposit and so on. He will next time and so will more and more landlords as the system does basically nothing to protect them from tenants like these. The decent tenants (the vast majority) will suffer unfortunately but what can you do.

murphaph

MrWalsh wrote: »

Please, those photos show a pattern of neglect. Going on months if not years.

In this particular case I'd agree that the damage wasn't done in minutes, but it wasn't years either. A few weeks of defecating on the floor and never cleaning will soon see a place looking like that, especially with (poor) kids in the place.

You simply can't defend against people who think it's acceptable to use a bin liner as a toilet. I'm sorry, these people are operating on a different level to you and I.

MrWalsh

murphaph wrote: »

In this particular case I'd agree that the damage wasn't done in minutes, but it wasn't years either. A few weeks of defecating on the floor and never cleaning will soon see a place looking like that, especially with (poor) kids in the place.

You simply can't defend against people who think it's acceptable to use a bin liner as a toilet. I'm sorry, these people are operating on a different level to you and I.

Besides inspections surely there would have been complaints from neighbours, about the smell even??

Obviously I am not saying it is the Landlords fault, but he certainly should have been keeping a better eye on his asset IMO.

Michael D Not Higgins

MrWalsh wrote: »

Obviously I am not saying it is the Landlords fault, but he certainly should have been keeping a better eye on his asset IMO.

Absolutely, and especially when tenants who are likely to do this kind of thing realise the landlord isn't going to do inspections, I'd say the damage accelerates.

gaius c

murphaph wrote: »

In this particular case I'd agree that the damage wasn't done in minutes, but it wasn't years either. A few weeks of defecating on the floor and never cleaning will soon see a place looking like that, especially with (poor) kids in the place.

You simply can't defend against people who think it's acceptable to use a bin liner as a toilet. I'm sorry, these people are operating on a different level to you and I.

You can. You vet them properly and don't let to them.

Lux23

gaius c wrote: »

You can. You vet them properly and don't let to them.

In fairness, how would a private landlord vet them? There is only so much you can glean from references. What process should they follow to ensure you know they aren't the kind of people who would poo into binliners?

gaius c

Lux23 wrote: »

In fairness, how would a private landlord vet them? There is only so much you can glean from references. What process should they follow to ensure you know they aren't the kind of people who would poo into binliners?

Ring the people cited in the references and ask them questions. If they've provided a false reference, it'll become clear very quickly. I've done this in the past.
Never, ever accept a piece of paper saying "John is a grand fellow who was my tenant from this date until this date" as faith. You have to speak to them in person!

And if they are the kind of people who would poo into binliners, their personal hygiene probably offers some clues.

Lux23

That will only go so far, I would imagine that if someone rang my references that all they are going to be able to say is that our rent was paid on time and the flat was in decent condition when we left. That might not allow for me developing mental issues or having messy kids in the meantime.

MrWalsh

Lux23 wrote: »

That will only go so far, I would imagine that if someone rang my references that all they are going to be able to say is that our rent was paid on time and the flat was in decent condition when we left. That might not allow for me developing mental issues or having messy kids in the meantime.

No but regular inspections should help there.

Lux23

Well that won't stop me from pooping in some bin bags for the first six months. I think it is unfair to expect a landlord to avoid craziness on this level and I think it is wrong to assume every rent allowance tenant is going to be like this.

MrWalsh

Lux23 wrote: »

Well that won't stop me from pooping in some bin bags for the first six months. I think it is unfair to expect a landlord to avoid craziness on this level and I think it is wrong to assume every rent allowance tenant is going to be like this.

No it wouldnt, but it would at least only give a clean up of 6 months worth of it.

The pics under discussion show years of neglect. It takes a long time for that black sooty dirt to build to that level on the back of doors, similarly the grouting looks like it has a lot of build up. Even the sheer neglect apparent with the appliances takes time to build up. There is more than 6 months of neglect in those pics. Id like to have seen pics of the outside because I am sure that the property would have begin to appear neglected from the outside judging by the inside. Lets face it, they are not cleaning the front windows and keeping the curtains pristine while defecating into bin liners?

There is a rental property close by where I live and the outside of it screams neglect, meanwhile the curtains and front windows get dirtier and dirtier, with the curtains having been replaced by a torn sheet in one instance.

Personally Id make it my business to check on the place after only 3 months initially and then make the inspections 6 monthly, and yearly once I was satisfied that the tenant was decent enough.

Perhaps some people wouldnt bother but Id be interested in protecting my asset where possible.