Dublin Fire service recruitment? Anyone know??

lonfire1

Jim Royle wrote: »

Just off the phone to public jobs and they have called 670, have a bad feelin thats all they will call (as I was early 700 on list)

Thought they would bring al least 2000 back for the 2ND stage. It's a very strange process.... Looking very doubtful now if only 670 is called back. Good luck to you all, would love to be in your shoes.

123kid2014

Jim Royle wrote: »

Just off the phone to public jobs and they have called 670, have a bad feelin thats all they will call (as I was early 700 on list)

Hey Jim would they not tell you any information on numbers?
Why the big secret from them ?

Harryhoofer

PAS are like that, they are Civil Servants your only on the phone to a Clerical Officer, it's made up as they go along, they will want to see how many of the 670 or so they are recalling are consistent if consistency is not as big as they thought they will pull more from the panel.

The two observation tests will sift the men from the boys they are very difficult as is the applied maths.

I have done a lot of aptitudes in the past and my experience has been that your placement on the aptitude provided you pass has no bearing on whether you get the interview or not. You could be paced number one in the aptitude and be nullified in an instant at interview, but you can't get to interview stage without the aptitude.

The interview will be tough for those who get there.

megabantz

Harryhoofer wrote: »

PAS are like that, they are Civil Servants your only on the phone to a Clerical Officer, it's made up as they go along, they will want to see how many of the 670 or so they are recalling are consistent if consistency is not as big as they thought they will pull more from the panel.

The two observation tests will sift the men from the boys they are very difficult as is the applied maths.

I have done a lot of aptitudes in the past and my experience has been that your placement on the aptitude provided you pass has no bearing on whether you get the interview or not. You could be paced number one in the aptitude and be nullified in an instant at interview, but you can't get to interview stage without the aptitude.

The interview will be tough for those who get there.

I cant see them having much of a problem with people not being consistent with the verification of the maths. It states you just need to score in the band you reached for each of the tests from stage 1. The bands are quite broad so unless you make a complete bags of it your probably alright.

Anyone I know is putting the work in as im sure are everyone else.

Jim Royle

123kid2014 wrote: »

Hey Jim would they not tell you any information on numbers?
Why the big secret from them ?

They said that they have called 670 and that if DCC wanted more then they would call more. Thats exactly how the phone call went.

I done one off the apptitude test courses and the guy running it said they will most likely take the top 10% and 670 is in and around that mark ..

Well done to all who were succesful and best of luck in the next stages

megabantz

also a big plus would be that because the numbers (670) are so few I can't see them wanting to cull people but rather just see this as a verification stage where they expect most to pass through to stage 3. It states you just need to reach the min qualifying score and from looking at the bands the qualifying score was fairly low

Harryhoofer

I scored in the top band for everything. So yes as you said bands are broad which shouldn't be a huge problem, but make no mistake there will be people who got people to do those tests for them.

Is anyone doing the test prep Tuesday week I heard it's great, where can you prepare for observation tests bar this course, very little online???

megabantz

Jim Royle wrote: »

They said that they have called 670 and that if DCC wanted more then they would call more. Thats exactly how the phone call went.

I done one off the apptitude test courses and the guy running it said they will most likely take the top 10% and 670 is in and around that mark ..

Well done to all who were succesful and best of luck in the next stages

670 sounds about right at 10% - a lot of people applied but never sat the test I heard! this now makes sense looking at the figure

Harryhoofer

You must pass stage 2 by reaching the minimum score, but they want you to achieve your placement on whatever bands you were in at stage one, if this doesn't happen and you still reach the low qualifying score you may well be nullified as you have not proven consistency therefore doubt is cast over who did stage one for you? Reaching the low qualifying score here won't be sufficient.

670 have been recalled they want 66 immediately so 10% equates to exactly 66 positions, 1-66 out of 670 will be called first but as I said not all of them will pass interview or medical etc, so anyone in the top 100 plus I would imagine will go to the next stage and possibly more, they will pull a panel of 200 or so and use it for future recruitment and also the calltakers they currently want too.

I also applied for the calltaker and have heard nothing about separate testing for this they will use this test to see how many of us applied for both and then issue us with offers provided we score high enough.

megabantz

Harryhoofer wrote: »

You must pass stage 2 by reaching the minimum score, but they want you to achieve your placement on whatever bands you were in at stage one, if this doesn't happen and you still reach the low qualifying score you may well be nullified as you have not proven consistency therefore doubt is cast over who did stage one for you? Reaching the low qualifying score here won't be sufficient.

670 have been recalled they want 66 immediately so 10% equates to exactly 66 positions, 1-66 out of 670 will be called first but as I said not all of them will pass interview or medical etc, so anyone in the top 100 plus I would imagine will go to the next stage and possibly more, they will pull a panel of 200 or so and use it for future recruitment and also the calltakers they currently want too.

I also applied for the calltaker and have heard nothing about separate testing for this they will use this test to see how many of us applied for both and then issue us with offers provided we score high enough.

When I said reach the qualifying score I was referring to the video tests not the 3 tests done previous, for those you just need to get in the same band as you did in round 1.

What is the story with the controller positons actually and where it states these tests may be carried forward??

Harryhoofer

Closing date for Calltaker was mid December, I believe they may use this panel for calltakers but then the aptitude for calltaker is different as their is an audio test involved so I'm not sure how that will work, but costs are always priority, so testing for calltaker may not happen and just use this test for both positions.

megabantz

I would have thought the competitions are seperate but in the event you applied for both you may be excused certain tests an you can bring your results through to the call taker competition where the tests are similar. I would imagine you still need to do the typing/audio test but we see.

TicTacDoc

Harryhoofer wrote: »

Closing date for Calltaker was mid December, I believe they may use this panel for calltakers but then the aptitude for calltaker is different as their is an audio test involved so I'm not sure how that will work, but costs are always priority, so testing for calltaker may not happen and just use this test for both positions.

Yes it would be a good cost saving exercise and a great use of carrot and stick method. do this job until the other comes up etc.

Just to note the call taker position is only a 12 month contract and the salary is very low, im guessing a lot of people who have financial commitments would have difficulty taking this job on that basis.

670 is a very low number and far less than i expected to go through. I can guarantee anyone who got through to the next round will be delighted that the number are low. I imagine that people that did not get through to round 2 yet will be called on later should they need people.

First calls in the OBI Starts 25th of January i think for the internal recruitment now its usually a 26 week course but take off 12 weeks for the Paramedic exam then its say 14 weeks . that would mean they would finish around first week in May leaving the first class of recruits to go in after that. meaning 2nd class of new recruits could be November 2016.

My guess will be a panel of 250. 50 per class making around 5 classes over maybe over a 3 year period. thats just my guess but i have been wrong before

Lezdid

Am I interpreting the info booklet correctly,...that the verification tests will be the very same as the ones we already did?

megabantz

Lezdid wrote: »

Am I interpreting the info booklet correctly,...that the verification tests will be the very same as the ones we already did?

Not sure, if its a verification then it would have to be the same test otherwise your not verifying anything but doing a similar test.

I sat the exact same test in the verification that I did in the previous round for the guards if this is any help

TicTacDoc

Lezdid wrote: »

Am I interpreting the info booklet correctly,...that the verification tests will be the very same as the ones we already did?

not the very same. they will not have the personality attributes or the questions that were in the last. it will have 2 sets of videos for observation and learning information. the other 3 tests will be similar, basic math, applied math & understanding instruction

TicTacDoc

Sorry my mistake, to clarify....

Test 1: Learning Information
A key skill of a firefighter is the ability to learn and retain information of the type required within a training or ‘operational’ (fire) context. This skill is being assessed in Test 1: Learning Information.
During this test you will be presented with a series of short talks/ presentations on video during which you are encouraged to take notes. These talks/ presentations will be on fire-service related topics.
You will then be assessed on how much you have learned about the topic through a series of multiple choice questions.
 For each question you should decide whether the statements are

A: TRUE from the information given in the briefing or
B: FALSE from the information given in the briefing, or
C: CANNOT SAY from the information given in the briefing – more information is required
You should use only the information in the briefing to make this decision.
 There is one practice set of questions followed by the main test.

 In the main test you be presented with two talks/ presentations on video. You are advised to listen carefully to the video and you are encouraged to take notes during these presentations. You will be provided with rough work paper on the day.

 You will then have 8 minutes to answer the 20 questions that follow.


Test 2: Observation Test
This test is about the ability to identify key information presented on video (involving a series of short films of objects set out in a number of rooms). Within these rooms are a range of items such as boxes, planks, containers, electrical equipment and furniture.
 You will be shown a briefing on video regarding information that you should look for within a number of rooms (which are numbered).

 Listen carefully to the briefing so that you know what you are looking for.

 Watch the video of the rooms carefully to identify the relevant information. You are advised to watch the video very carefully and you are encouraged to take notes during these presentations. You will be provided with rough work paper on the day.

 After the video you will be shown a plan of the rooms and be asked a number of multiple-choice questions about the video.

 One minute is offered following the presentation of each video to answer the questions. There will be two practice videos and two sets of practice questions.

 There will be five video presentations within the main test. Following each video presentation you will have 1 minute to answer 4 questions.
Test 3: Understanding Instructions
A significant part of the Firefighter role involves interpreting written materials in order to understand information and instructions. This test measures the ability to read, understand and evaluate / interpret written information.
This test measures your ability to understand text messages and evaluate information. The task is to evaluate as quickly as possible whether a statement that refers to a text is right or wrong. To help you manage your time, there is a timer displayed on the screen.
Base your answers only on the information given in the passages of text. Click on the answer that you think is correct – true or false. When a response has been selected, click the ‘Next’ button on the lower right hand corner of the screen to go on to the next question.
Once the allocated test time has elapsed, the test will close regardless of the number of questions completed.
You will have 8 minutes to complete the 24 items in the actual test.

Test 4: Numeracy Skills (Scales Eql-a)
The ability to interpret, understand and use numerical information is a key part of the Firefighter role. This test measures the ability to understand and use numerical information to solve problems.
Each task consists of an equation with gaps and a given result. The task is to fill the gaps with numbers so that the given result is correct.
Drag the correct numbers into the spaces provided to complete the equation. When you have decided on your response, click the ‘Next’ button on the lower right hand corner of the screen to go on to the next question.
A calculator and rough work paper will be provided for use during this test.
Once the allocated test time has elapsed, the test will close regardless of the number of questions completed.
You will have 5 minutes to complete the 15 items in this test.

Test 5: Applied Numeracy (Scales Tmt)
This test measures calculating skills in four areas – translation of units, problem solving, percentage calculation and calculation of areas and spaces.

Each of the four areas is separately timed and has 5 questions, with between 3 and 5 minutes given for each. For each question there is one correct answer which you can select by clicking in the appropriate circle. When you have decided on your response, click the ‘Next’ button on the lower right hand corner of the screen to go on to the next question.
A calculator and rough work paper will be provided for use during this test.
Once the allocated test time

megabantz

I think lezdid meant will he/she be re sitting the exact same test he did in round 1 for the verification (understanding instruction / numeracy / applied numeracy)

rockonkw

You know the best way to get involved with the fire brigade is to volunteer with Civil Defense first. They train you up and depending on where you live you may operate from some of the fire stations in Dublin, great link in!

Harryhoofer

I have been told that 200 is the likely panel numbers certainly no more than 250 and they will want them from the 670, why pull from further down the ladder? They want the cream of the crop.

There will be a percentage of people who ace stage 2 like stage 1, a percentage who fail badly, a percentage who fail the following stages, a percentage who are simply not medically fit for the job or lose interest etc. Even if 250 get on the panel it's still 420 nullified from the remaining stages.

megabantz

Harryhoofer wrote: »

I have been told that 200 is the likely panel numbers certainly no more than 250 and they will want them from the 670, why pull from further down the ladder? They want the cream of the crop.

There will be a percentage of people who ace stage 2 like stage 1, a percentage who fail badly, a percentage who fail the following stages, a percentage who are simply not medically fit for the job or lose interest etc. Even if 250 get on the panel it's still 420 nullified from the remaining stages.

even if 600 make it past stage 2 that means for a panel of 200 you have a very very very good chance of getting past the interview. 1:3! :O

Harryhoofer

I wondered that myself would the three tests be the exact same, I highly doubt this as one way to ace it was to take a screenshot of every question first time then google the answers and drill them into you or establish a system of Question 1:is A, Question 2: is C etc.

But if it's not the same you could argue how can consistency be achieved?

They will no doubt be at the very least the exact same wording but possible different equations etc. With technoology these days if it was the exact same its really easy to exploit, but nothing would surprise me!

megabantz

Harryhoofer wrote: »

I wondered that myself would the three tests be the exact same, I highly doubt this as one way to ace it was to take a screenshot of every question first time then google the answers and drill them into you or establish a system of Question 1:is A, Question 2: is C etc.

But if it's not the same you could argue how can consistency be achieved?

They will no doubt be at the very least the exact same wording but possible different equations etc. With technoology these days if it was the exact same its really easy to exploit, but nothing would surprise me!

sure look at the airport aptitude test. they never verified and according to another forum lads were downloading maths apps to do it. Part of me thinks they dont give a ****e just once they have bums on seats and boxes are ticked

Lezdid

megabantz wrote: »

I think lezdid meant will he/she be re sitting the exact same test he did in round 1 for the verification (understanding instruction / numeracy / applied numeracy)

Correct megabantz

TicTacDoc

rockonkw wrote: »

You know the best way to get involved with the fire brigade is to volunteer with Civil Defense first. They train you up and depending on where you live you may operate from some of the fire stations in Dublin, great link in!

I dont think that is true anymore. I know a lot of CD lads that dont even make it through the primary stages in the last 2 recruitments. Maybe it might be a help in the interview

Harryhoofer

If it is the exact same, guaranteed is makes a mockery of everything as they could be getting knuckle heads, they will be found out at interview hopefully!! And maybe give honest people further down the line a fighting chance. Think about how easy it was to take a picture of every question first time round and then you have all the time in the World to work on understanding the answers between stage 1 and stage 2.

You are right in part bums on seats are priority but surely PAS know nowadays about these potential scams!

What exactly happened with the Airport Fire Service?

megabantz

Harryhoofer wrote: »

If it is the exact same, guaranteed is makes a mockery of everything as they could be getting knuckle heads, they will be found out at interview hopefully!! And maybe give honest people further down the line a fighting chance. Think about how easy it was to take a picture of every question first time round and then you have all the time in the World to work on understanding the answers between stage 1 and stage 2.

You are right in part bums on seats are priority but surely PAS know nowadays about these potential scams!

What exactly happened with the Airport Fire Service?

Well I know a few DFB lads and ladies who wouldnt be the brightest spark but do the job as good as the next. I wouldnt agree completely that they will be found out at interview. You would be surprised who goes through and claims the prize. some people are just not upto the level of aptitude tests but can talk the talk at interviews


the airport fire service had 1 round for the aptitude test and then straight into preliminary interview, no verification at all

Harryhoofer

Absolutely agree Megabantz, I am awful at interviews but good at aptitudes. Sure I was watching the DFB recruitment programme few months ago on RTE and you would wonder how some of them passed every single stage. So many of them weren't even fit and were overweight!

If it's the exact same you can guarantee yourself that there are stage one guys everywhere reciting every question right now, very fair playing field!!! As I said yesterday cutting costs has now made it very possible to recruit the wrong people, doing aptitudes at home is a ridiculous idea, just test us all once in a supervised zone elminates cheats immediately, they use to do it like that. But as we know no manpower to test us all anymore.

TicTacDoc

personally i wouldnt be too worried about someone who "cheated" the next stage of the process should knock out anyone who is not able to duplicate the previous score. if you did it once you should be able to do it again.

as for interview, i know some people have said they dont interview well. this is how it goes. the brief of the competition is find candidates that fit a profile of being able to do aptitudes and can preform well at inter view. if a candidate can not preform at either of the 2 processes then thats it. we all knew the process going in and if we dont get it then it ends with us simple. there is no body out to get you, equally nobody that is going to help you. The process is what it is we either fit the profile or dont. it may not be a popular way of looking at it but not liking it is not going to change it.

Harryhoofer

But if you think about it it's very easy to pass first two rounds, you recruit someone you know who is excellent at aptitudes and you do it together at home, you have a third person photo every question without distracting you, you find out you passed stage 1 and are now placed in the top 670, you get recalled to stage 2 and now you are armed with every single question that will pop up, you develop either a memory system of a,b,c,d etc or put little dots on your hand or something, you ace stage 2 even better than stage one, all of a sudden your at interview then, almost there then with family connections etc are sure piece of cake!

PAS always look for feedback and if the testing is the same I will be saying exactly what I have said here. But you are right it is what it is.