Help with upgrading/replacing HKC 8/12

aLarmdd

Hi,

Fully wired system installed about 8 years ago. Up to now receiving sms via landline for alerts but need alternative option since Eircom is removing this service.

Option 1 is signing up to the HKC SecureComm service and make use of the app. From reading the relevant threads here, it should be possible to avail of both alerts via sms and wifi/LAN with this system. Is that correct?

I understand that my panel would need to be upgraded and GSM-SC unit/LAN card, etc. added.

However, I rang the original installer who insisted that communication via wifi/LAN is not a possibiity and the Securecomm service can only operate via the GSM unit, i.e. mobile network.

The problem is that mobile reception can be flaky where I live so I would be more comfortable with having wifi/LAN as a second path for alerts/monitoring.

Is my installer correct and have I misunderstood the info posted here, or is it a case (as I suspect) of him trying to sell me what HE wants rather than what I want? The company doesn't work with any other systems apart from HKC.

Option 2 would be to completely replace the system with a new alarm from a different company, Siemens or Risco perhaps.

Would it be possible to retain the sensors, external bell box and internal siren from the existing system and simply replace the HKC panel and keypad with an alternative brand that would offer self-monitoring via app and sms via GSM module for alerts?

Is this something I could tackle myself? I've never installed an alarm before but am fairly handy with DIY once I have a manual/instructions to work from!. The original installer has confirmed that he would be willing to default the system to remove the engineer lock (for a fee) if I wanted to get another company to work on the system.

If the system was defaulted, how difficult would it be to reprogramme or even replace the contro panel, etc.

I would be very grateful for any advice anyone could offer.

Thanks

KoolKid

If the installer you have only uses one panel I would be recommending you shop around. It certainly sounds like he want you to gave what he wants to install or is only able to install. If his experience is that limited you are better off looking around also.
In the long run upgrading the panel to a system without subscription charges would be cheaper in the long run. There are plenty of choices out there with Siemens, GSD, Risco UTC etc.
You say GSM is not great in your area. Is this in general or on some networks?
Could an international Sim roaming on all networks help. You could also add a voice dialler to a landline as a backup.

Evolution1

Yes you can use a WiFi or LAN card to use HKCs service. Yes you should ring a different company who knows how the gear they are using works.

Are you in the country side ?

The HKC is a great reliable panel but Pyronix and Risco have very nice apps and better polling alerts. Ricos vue point looks brilliant but have they sorted out the risco servers ?

KoolKid

I haven't noticed any down time with Risco servers recently.

aLarmdd

KoolKid wrote: »

If the installer you have only uses one panel I would be recommending you shop around. It certainly sounds like he want you to gave what he wants to install or is only able to install. If his experience is that limited you are better off looking around also.

Good advice, thanks.

KoolKid wrote: »

You say GSM is not great in your area. Is this in general or on some networks?
Could an international Sim roaming on all networks help. You could also add a voice dialler to a landline as a backup.

I'm living in an urban area but the house is located in somewhat of a dead spot when it comes to mobile reception. This applies for all networks. There's some sort of signal 80% of the time but I'd just be concerned about those times when it drops to nothing.

Voice dialler might be worth considering alright, thanks for the suggestion, but I'd ideally like something that would enable me to remotely reset the system in the event of a false alarm..

Evolution1 wrote: »

Yes you can use a WiFi or LAN card to use HKCs service

I presume the wifi/LAN can only be used with Securecomm? Is there any way it can be used with another service?

As regards defaulting the existing panel, is it not possible for an installer to simply remove the engineer lock and relock it with a different code which he can then give to me? Is defaulting the entire system the only way of unlocking it?

If it is defaulted, how difficult would it then be for me to replace the panel, connect up any additional components and then reprogram the system?

Could the existing sensors and external bell box be left in place and used with a panel from a different manufacturer, e.g. Siemens?

I would prefer to "future-proof" the system as much as possible and would ideally like the option of being able to add IP cameras and perhaps tinker with home automation at some point.

However, I don't want to get in over my head and end up with an unusable alarm!

As things stand, I'd like:
1) Self-monitoring via app and sms alerts via 2 paths (IP and GSM)
2) Option to add other capabilities (home automation, IP camera) in future

I appreciate people taking the time to read my queries. I'd like to upgrade the system myself if at all possible but if it's beyond my capabilities. I'll happily pay a registered installer to do the work.

By the way, how come the likes of Siemens can offer a free app and (if I undertand it correctly) free self monitoring? Where's the catch?

Evolution1

yes the HKC system is locked to Securecomm . you cannot use their modules unless you avail of securecomm. But its the same with all brands. You cannot use another providers app.

Yes all of your existing sensors and bells will be compatible with other brands, just not the keypads or panel.

-Siemens/Risco and Pyronix all offer the app for free and free push notifications over WiFi or LAN. It will cost you to use a GSM unit.

-HKC offer text and push notifications over WiFi.
It won't cost any extra to use the GSM unit. €4.99 per month.

KoolKid

There is no catch. Almost all manufacturers offer free apps and free remote access. Only HKC and Phonewatch insist on annual subscriptions.
Some one here seem to be obsessed to promoting one product.
Shop around any of the other brands and you will get better value
Siemens, Risco, GSD UTC and Honeywell all offer free apps and free use.
You can default your alarm panel no problem. But if you stick with HKC you will be tied to annual subscriptions. As we have seen this week there are price adjustments already. I would expect more over the lifetime of your alarm, which should be 10-15 years.
You can also get GSM back ups using prepay sim cards for a lot less than the subscriptions offered.

Evolution1

KoolKid wrote: »

There is no catch. Almost all manufacturers offer free apps and free remote access. Only HKC and Phonewatch insist on annual subscriptions.
You can default your alarm panel no problem. But if you stick with HKC you will be tied to annual subscriptions. As we have seen this week there are price adjustments already. I would expect more over the lifetime of your alarm, which should be 10-15 years.
You can also get GSM back ups using prepay sim cards for a lot less than the subscriptions offered.

No price adjustment to the popular standard package. Still €60 for WiFi and GPRS.

Stoner

Guys I'm not asking again to stop repeating the stuff over and over again about apps. I don't care if it's true. Or if the isolated facts are 100% correct. Or of some of the information is slightly incorrect.

Next time a thread lights up with discussions about apps I'll just delete the posts and issue bans.

We have a sticky for this. It's old ground. This type of conversation is killing threads.

I'm finished asking you to stop.

aLarmdd

Back again guys.

Unfortunately I've had absolutely no joy tracking down an installer who works with Siemens or GSD panels in the Cork city area. It seems to be HKC only down this part of the country!

Could anyone recommend a PSA registered installer based or who will travel to the Cork city area?

Thanks.

KoolKid

Sent you a PM with some options. It's amazing and frighting how many companies cannot install multiple systems.

aLarmdd

KoolKid wrote: »

Sent you a PM with some options.

Hi Koolkid,

I got your PM but there was nothing else except the link to download the manual.

EDIT: too quick off the draw! Thanks for that, will give them a call.

KoolKid

That's was from another thread there is a second PM re this.

altor

aLarmdd wrote: »

Hi,

Fully wired system installed about 8 years ago. Up to now receiving sms via landline for alerts but need alternative option since Eircom is removing this service.

Option 1 is signing up to the HKC SecureComm service and make use of the app. From reading the relevant threads here, it should be possible to avail of both alerts via sms and wifi/LAN with this system. Is that correct?

I understand that my panel would need to be upgraded and GSM-SC unit/LAN card, etc. added.

However, I rang the original installer who insisted that communication via wifi/LAN is not a possibiity and the Securecomm service can only operate via the GSM unit, i.e. mobile network.

The problem is that mobile reception can be flaky where I live so I would be more comfortable with having wifi/LAN as a second path for alerts/monitoring.

Is my installer correct and have I misunderstood the info posted here, or is it a case (as I suspect) of him trying to sell me what HE wants rather than what I want? The company doesn't work with any other systems apart from HKC.

Option 2 would be to completely replace the system with a new alarm from a different company, Siemens or Risco perhaps.

Would it be possible to retain the sensors, external bell box and internal siren from the existing system and simply replace the HKC panel and keypad with an alternative brand that would offer self-monitoring via app and sms via GSM module for alerts?

Is this something I could tackle myself? I've never installed an alarm before but am fairly handy with DIY once I have a manual/instructions to work from!. The original installer has confirmed that he would be willing to default the system to remove the engineer lock (for a fee) if I wanted to get another company to work on the system.

If the system was defaulted, how difficult would it be to reprogramme or even replace the contro panel, etc.

I would be very grateful for any advice anyone could offer.

Thanks

A cheaper option would of being to have Securetext set up on the 8/12.
For self monitoring €3.40 per month is good value.
You could also of just added a voice dialer to the system. I would not recommend adding a GSM-P to this system.
I have heard of people being charged made money to have this added and not given all the options with regard the system they have installed.

hatchman

Altor, what exactly do I need for securetext on the 8/12 ? I had the text to phone on mine but now as u know its gone so I have changed it to call me through landline but I much prefer the text as it gives alarm and zone and also another text if alarm has been dis-armed. Also two or three alarm activation's in the month will cost me close to 3.40 in mobile calls on my phone bill. I have a dmc on a SW8/12 do I just need to sign up to securetext and change the number programmed into the alarm ? Thanks (Sorry I know you have covered this before but there seem to be a few different models of the HKC panel so just hoping i can do this on mine)

altor

hatchman wrote: »

Altor, what exactly do I need for securetext on the 8/12 ? I had the text to phone on mine but now as u know its gone so I have changed it to call me through landline but I much prefer the text as it gives alarm and zone and also another text if alarm has been dis-armed. Also two or three alarm activation's in the month will cost me close to 3.40 in mobile calls on my phone bill. I have a dmc on a SW8/12 do I just need to sign up to securetext and change the number programmed into the alarm ? Thanks (Sorry I know you have covered this before but there seem to be a few different models of the HKC panel so just hoping i can do this on mine)

Any of the HKC systems that texted over the landline can be set up with SecureText. It can be used with any service provider once connected to the alarm. It will also text abroad plus three numbers which did not work with Eircom.
It is simply changing the messaging number from Eircoms old one to Secure Texts one.
Costing is here on the sign up page, for self monitoring the 50 texts is more than enough.

You will need the engineer code to set this up.

KoolKid

Just curious here. Is that a limit of 50 texts in a month? What happens when you reach that limit? Does the service stop or are you charged extra?

altor

If you found you were using more than 50 texts a month there are other options available, most would if using open/close.
To answer your question tho, it would be watched and customer would need to switch plans if it continued.

KoolKid

So the service wouldn't be just stopped?

hatchman

Do you get the same information as in the old text system i.e the fault & the zone ?
Does an ex directory phone line have caller ID enabled ? When signing up to securetext it asks is caller ID enabled (sorry if this a dumb question)

altor

hatchman wrote: »

Do you get the same information as in the old text system i.e the fault & the zone ?
Does an ex directory phone line have caller ID enabled ? When signing up to securetext it asks is caller ID enabled (sorry if this a dumb question)

The texts you will receive will be the same as what you have being receiving using the Eircom Text service.

Select caller ID enabled.

If you have a private number simply put 142 in front of the Secure Text number you program into the panel.
The system needs to see the phone number you signed up to to forward any activating texts from your land line number.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

If you found you were using more than 50 texts a month there are other options available, most would if using open/close.
To answer your question tho, it would be watched and customer would need to switch plans if it continued.

According to HKC the alerts would stop.

This would cause me concern both as a customer and an installer.
As a customer you could be left towards the end of the month with no coverage. Will there be notifications? Will there be a way to top up & get it restored? 50 is very little really.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

So the service wouldn't be just stopped?

A fair usage does apply.
As I said:

altor wrote: »

If you found you were using more than 50 texts a month there are other options available, most would if using open/close.
To answer your question tho, it would be watched and customer would need to switch plans if it continued.

If you have anymore questions please feel free to send HKC an E-mail with regards this.

KoolKid

As quoted by HKCs T & C s the alerts will stop.
I Think saying it will be watched is very misleading.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

As quoted by HKCs T & C s the alerts will stop.
I Think saying it will be watched is very misleading.

Terms and conditions are there to safe guard fair usage.
I know how its being worked as an installer of the service.

If you feel I am misleading people, please feel free to report the post.

KoolKid

The T & Cs are what people are signing up for. I would say that's what they should be guided by rather than here say.

altor

Agreed, lucky enough they have different plans to cover this.

KoolKid

But unfortunately at quite a price hike.
I'd still be recommending pre pay. At least you have an option to top up instantly should the need arise.
Do you know if there is an option to top up if you run over & HKC cut you off?

altor

Really, and add a GSM to an obsolete system?

KoolKid

As I said before, there are lots of cheaper options. As an installer I would not be signing up customers to this under T & Cs where you could be left without monitoring over one or 2 texts.
Is there any notification or warning if this happens?
How do you top up to get your alerts back?

altor

Yeah I have seen your cheaper option to just let it ring you.
If that is what you offer that's fair enough.
There are different price plans, we have already discussed this.