Tour de France 2015 thread **Please use spoiler tags before midnight**

tigerboon

ThisRegard wrote: »

Just realised I won't be somewhere where I can watch the tour for the last 5 stages, bit of a pisser.

Same. Plan to record it on Sky and exercise a sports news blackout when away. Don't think there's enough room to record that many stages. Might have to be selective about which stages to record.

Darkglasses

Alberto Contador

irishrover99 wrote: »

Anyone tell me what's the point of the mavic neutral service car. I really can't remember anyone ever using one and I've been watching cycling a long time, and not even taking a spare wheel
Same with the Vittorio car in the giro


And how is virenque still doing ads for festina

They do get use if there's multiple breakaways, dropped riders, etc.

Can't remember who it was, possibly Lars Boom, but they were giving out on twitter that they got a neutral service wheel at Roubaix and it was too old fashioned.

Talib Fiasco

Nairo Quintana

Only satisfying part about Nibali having a poor Tour which will probably continue is that he might actually start racing again and forget this stupid notion of one super peak for the Tour. I think he'll do the Giro next year and if he wins that try and do the Vuelta double and replicate Contador. Aru is growing into a very very solid GC guy and Nibali is running out of prime years to stamp his mark on this era.

SummerRebel

They don't like taking bikes from the neutral service cars because they don't have clip on pedals, only those old school toe clips.

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

irishrover99 wrote: »

Anyone tell me what's the point of the mavic neutral service car. I really can't remember anyone ever using one and I've been watching cycling a long time, and not even taking a spare wheel
Same with the Vittorio car in the giro

Back in the TdF '10, Jens Voigt crashed in the mountains while his team cars were further up in the road. He got a bike from the Mavic neutral service car. That saved him from being over the time limit or being swept up by the broomwagon. The bike was way too small for him and it had toe-clips but it did the job!

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

Prize money awarded so far in the race this year:

ThisRegard

tigerboon wrote: »

Same. Plan to record it on Sky and exercise a sports news blackout when away. Don't think there's enough room to record that many stages. Might have to be selective about which stages to record.

I was thinking of recording the highlights each night, and not in HD which should save a lot of space. I'm in a battle with my box at the moment to free up as much space as possible.

Talib Fiasco

Nairo Quintana

dastardly00 wrote: »

Prize money awarded so far in the race this year:

Lampre and FDJ would be better off on the dole

odyssey06

Alberto Contador

Just curious... why are Team Sky forcing the peloton to high speeds? Sometimes at the front it's as if they are trying to chase down a breakaway... But there's no GC guys in the breakaways, and they have no sprinters. I don't remember other yellow jersey teams doing this.
Are they trying to soften up other GC teams? Wear down other contenders so they've nothing left for climbing finishes?

MPFG

odyssey06 wrote: »

Just curious... why are Team Sky forcing the peloton to high speeds? Sometimes at the front it's as if they are trying to chase down a breakaway... But there's no GC guys in the breakaways, and they have no sprinters. I don't remember other yellow jersey teams doing this.
Are they trying to soften up other GC teams? Wear down other contenders so they've nothing left for climbing finishes?

Well so far there really hasn't been any climbs but starting tomorrow they will be riding in front and softening up the opposition and setting Chris Froome up by riding at pace in the mountains

All along it has been about positioning and keeping their leader at the front and out of harm. But everyone else has the same idea and want to be at the front so invariably the pace goes up and up as they fight for position

G1032

dastardly00 wrote: »

Prize money awarded so far in the race this year:

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How much does a rider get for a stage win? Would say, a sprinter, usually keep this money for himself or divide is out to his teammates who did a lot of work for him?

AIR-AUSSIE

Alberto Contador

I believe all winnings are divided up amongst the team - including mechanics and soigneurs in some cases. I think its only fair as the team will have most likely have helped.

Pudsy33

Nairo Quintana

Ivan Basso out of the Tour as he has testicular cancer. Get well soon Ivan!

Talib Fiasco

Nairo Quintana

Shocking news and a big blow to Saxo as a unit as well as for the Tour. All the best RoboBasso

ZiabR

Alberto Contador

Brian? wrote: »

I seriously hope not. Valverde hasn't a hope.

Would agree here. After 9 stages, you cannot but be impressed with Froome this year. He looks the strongest of the GC boys at the moment BUT the real test starts tomorrow!

Talib Fiasco

Nairo Quintana

Contador was supposedly very emotional at the press conference when Basso announced it.

death1234567

Vincenzo Nibali

You would hope that given that it was discovered pretty quickly his prognosis for recovery is very good. I hope he get's better quickly.

gordongekko

it must make him question whether doing drugs earlier in his career was a factor.

Captain Havoc

gordongekko wrote: »

it must make him question whether doing drugs earlier in his career was a factor.

That'll be the last of the drugs talk in this thread or it'll be an instant one week ban.

TheBlaaMan

Captain Havoc wrote: »

That'll be the last of the drugs talk in this thread or it'll be an instant one week ban.

While I would regard the original comment as being in bad taste at this time, it is a fact that Basso has served a doping ban; the comment parallels the exact question raised about Armstrong at the time. It is not doping speculation. Let's not be selectively inconsistent . .. . ..

Talib Fiasco

Nairo Quintana

Of all the guys who have been found of doping, and there have been hundreds upon hundreds, two guys have gotten testicular cancer. 1 in 270 men will get testicular cancer apparently, and two guys from the thousands in the peloton have gotten it. But there's definitely a correlation yeah :rolleyes:

Talib Fiasco

Nairo Quintana

Very classy and seemed very calm and positive considering his world must have been turned upside down a few hours previous to it

retalivity

iirc Lampre also finished bottom of the prize money table last year as well

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/621785220665184261

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

Alberto Contador is eating Irish steak these days!!

https://twitter.com/dailystews/status/621781060620304385

bryangiggsy

whats the story with Nico? His blog daily suggests he is saving legs for the next day after getting blown out early. Imo he has been disappointing. Could this be his first and last le tour with Sky?

dragratchet

by all accounts, he's doing what he's supposed to be doing.. working hard in the early part of each stage before letting the likes of porte and thomas take over at the pointy end.

ThisRegard

He's doing what he's there to do, why would Sky get rid of him ?

Leroy42

bryangiggsy wrote: »

whats the story with Nico? His blog daily suggests he is saving legs for the next day after getting blown out early. Imo he has been disappointing. Could this be his first and last le tour with Sky?

How has he been disappointing? He has been there when the team needed him. As road captain his job is to ensure that the team operates as it should. He spends the 1st part (mostly unseen) of each stage making sure no dangerous breaks occur and then helps make sure every one has bottles, food etc.

Since the team is basically killing everyone else, I think he is pretty much doing what he is being asked for.

odyssey06

Alberto Contador

It shows how dominant Sky are... that Nico can afford to leave something in the tank for the next day on some of the toughest stages.

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

bryangiggsy wrote: »

whats the story with Nico? His blog daily suggests he is saving legs for the next day after getting blown out early. Imo he has been disappointing. Could this be his first and last le tour with Sky?

You're incorrect about the bolded bit above.

Shedite27

dragratchet wrote: »

by all accounts, he's doing what he's supposed to be doing.. working hard in the early part of each stage before letting the likes of porte and thomas take over at the pointy end.

Just on that, I heard something on the cycling podcast that Porte was told he was doing a different job this year and his training changed accordingly (he basically went from being the last man to the second last man, with Thomas becoming the last man). How different would his training be going from being the last man to the second last man? Does second last do longer pulls? I always thought all domestiques would have trained similarly, and then a few weeks before the tour they would have assigned positions/roles based on form.

Similarly, what would be the difference between training for Roche's role V Thomas' role?

dragratchet

Shedite27 wrote: »

Just on that, I heard something on the cycling podcast that Porte was told he was doing a different job this year and his training changed accordingly (he basically went from being the last man to the second last man, with Thomas becoming the last man). How different would his training be going from being the last man to the second last man? Does second last do longer pulls? I always thought all domestiques would have trained similarly, and then a few weeks before the tour they would have assigned positions/roles based on form.

Similarly, what would be the difference between training for Roche's role V Thomas' role?

cant imagine there being much difference tbh, but i wouldnt know. they would both need to be in the condition to be last man in case the other cant hack it that day. given porte is leaving sky amicably at the end of his contract putting thomas (aside from his obvious ability) in as last man might be an effort from sky to develop that same working relationship that froome had with porte with a view towards further tour success. porte constantly bangs on how froome is one of his closest mates, perhaps sky are trying to build the same relationship btw froome and thomas

pats22b

just noticed something nice there-on the eurosport player on the desktop top - you can choose to watch one of the 5 live moto-bike camera feeds they have - no commentary but nice to be able to see whats going on in a different part of the race to whats being shown on the main feed.

Raoul Duke

pats22b wrote: »

just noticed something nice there-on the eurosport player on the desktop top - you can choose to watch one of the 5 live moto-bike camera feeds they have - no commentary but nice to be able to see whats going on in a different part of the race to whats being shown on the main feed.

That didn't seem to be working for me earlier in the Tour. Must check it again, next time I watch it on the pc.

bryangiggsy

Leroy42 wrote: »

How has he been disappointing? He has been there when the team needed him. As road captain his job is to ensure that the team operates as it should. He spends the 1st part (mostly unseen) of each stage making sure no dangerous breaks occur and then helps make sure every one has bottles, food etc.

Since the team is basically killing everyone else, I think he is pretty much doing what he is being asked for.

No was only wondering as I was expecting to see him more to the front on the big climbs sheltering the other 3 but that does not seem to be the case . His blog today said 2 others spent 100k on the front closing down attacks or setting the pace .

neris

pats22b wrote: »

just noticed something nice there-on the eurosport player on the desktop top - you can choose to watch one of the 5 live moto-bike camera feeds they have - no commentary but nice to be able to see whats going on in a different part of the race to whats being shown on the main feed.

just had a look at it there. nice to see the race from different points and without the commentary you get a sense of the noise the riders have to put up with all day.

the cycling podcast have a good morning podcast a kind of behind the scenes look at what goes on and the various people involved.

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

There is a good article from Shane Stokes just published about Sky releasing Froome's data from stage 10, the summit finish to La Pierre Saint Martin.

Stokes discusses the data with Ross Tucker (Science of Sport website).

So, if we consider his argument that the average watts cited by Kerrison is implausible, how does he believe Sky arrived at the figure it quoted?

"I think there are two ways that you can justify it and a combination of the two for me explains it."

He believes there are two sources of potential error which explain how Froome can apparently ride at a lower watts per kilo output than Gesink yet finish one minute 33 seconds quicker. The first of those relates to the overestimation of power due to the Osymetric chainrings when measured by the Stages system.

"The manufacturer claims four percent," Tucker said. "But Tim Kerrison reduces the measured power output by six. I think if they reduced it by four percent, then the power output they would have got would have been higher. Not a lot higher, but enough."

"414 Watts is what is produced on the reading. So if you knock 414 down by six percent you get 389. What they have then done is they have divided that by a mass of 67.5 and they get 5.77."

"But if you put in that 414 and brought it down by four percent, then what you get is 397. That translates to 5.89 watts per kilo on that same mass."

According to The Telegraph, Froome’s weight prior to the Criterium du Dauphiné was 66 kilos. Riders generally lose weight between that preparation race and the Tour, yet in a press conference in Gap at the end of stage 16, Froome said that he was racing between 67 and 68 kilos at this point of the Tour. Tucker states that if that pre-Dauphine weight is used instead of the claimed Tour weight, things start to make more sense.

"If you had a combination of a four percent reduction [accounting for the Osymetric/States error] and a mass of 66, then you have 6.02 watts per kilo. Now I think it starts to add up."

Leroy42

Did anyone hear the interview with David Walsh on Newstalk yesterday evening? It was a follow up the Kimmage interview the day before, where Kimmage had basically said that Sky have only themselves to blame.

David Walsh said at one stage that he couldn't comment on the power numbers as they meant nothing to him. Newstalk guy asked him did he not even find them curious and he basically said that no, he didn't understand them, they made no sense to him. Newstalk guy said that he had mentioned VO2max etc in the book and DW said that it was only numbers, not meant to be proof of anything. Since he hasn't meant anyone with anything bad to say so that is as far as he'll go.

While it is of course correct to assume innocent, I find it staggering that he fails to see any similarities in the current situation to the past, and IMO, was basically saying that unless someone has a smoking gun he takes Sky at face value.

Trojan

The Newstalk guy was Ger Gilroy.

Walsh was incredibly defensive, I was shocked at how much so. If it had happened in a US court the lawyer would be asking the judge if they could treat him as a hostile witness. Walsh couldn't countenance any criticism of Sky's position or attitude and got real stroppy about the data questions, writing off the whole thing as beyond his comprehension.


Ironically, the last time I heard someone that aggressively defensive of cycling was Armstrong.

neris

Leroy42 wrote: »

Did anyone hear the interview with David Walsh on Newstalk yesterday evening? It was a follow up the Kimmage interview the day before, where Kimmage had basically said that Sky have only themselves to blame.

David Walsh said at one stage that he couldn't comment on the power numbers as they meant nothing to him. Newstalk guy asked him did he not even find them curious and he basically said that no, he didn't understand them, they made no sense to him. Newstalk guy said that he had mentioned VO2max etc in the book and DW said that it was only numbers, not meant to be proof of anything. Since he hasn't meant anyone with anything bad to say so that is as far as he'll go.

While it is of course correct to assume innocent, I find it staggering that he fails to see any similarities in the current situation to the past, and IMO, was basically saying that unless someone has a smoking gun he takes Sky at face value.

does walsh not write for the sunday times? a company owned by news corp who also own sky

Talib Fiasco

Nairo Quintana

I'm not trying to imply anything here but Walsh can hardly say anything bad about Sky now considering he wrote a book about them with every page almost trying to drill home "They're not doping". He cannot really go back on his word now can he? I thought the book was crap because he was more trying to convince you to stop doubting them, yet he didn't go into detail at all about the training or the diet, or even the team as a unit. I respect Walsh for the Lance thing but he's slowly digging a bigger hole for himself. For his own sake I hope in five years time or whatever this won't come back to bite him in the arse.

Trojan

I would have thought that an investigative journalist of his calibre would be willing to put his hand up and admit that he got it wrong. That said, I'd say that Sky were certainly clean back when he wrote the book.

I reckon Froome & the Sky train are still clean now, but not helping themselves in the slightest in how they're approaching everything ultra defensively.

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

Trojan wrote: »

I would have thought that an investigative journalist of his calibre would be willing to put his hand up and admit that he got it wrong. That said, I'd say that Sky were certainly clean back when he wrote the book.

I reckon Froome & the Sky train are still clean now, but not helping themselves in the slightest in how they're approaching everything ultra defensively.

What has Walsh got wrong?

gordongekko

I found it hard to listen to him. He didn't understand the science behind the numbers so dismissed them. Yet he spoke of the likes of contador and Astana being caught. These have all been caught because of science and not because someone said they are doing drugs.

Trojan

dastardly00 wrote: »

What has Walsh got wrong?

I'm not saying he's wrong, read it in context:

Talib Fiasco wrote:

Walsh can hardly say anything bad about Sky now

Trojan wrote:

I would have thought that an investigative journalist of his calibre would be willing to put his hand up and admit that he got it wrong

What I mean is that I'd like to think Walsh would value his personal integrity above admitting to a mistake if it did turn out that he was wrong at some point.

But what he has got totally wrong is his attitude. I don't think he's wrong that Sky are clean. But I think he's wrong that we should all just accept that without asking the hard questions.

Ironically Kimmage has a far more reasonable position on Sky from what I can see - he doesn't think they're doping but he's willing to ask the right questions.

Talib Fiasco

Nairo Quintana

Kimmage is clever. Anyone can put together the subtle things he's saying...he's just being very careful now as he's learned that being blunt has got him in some big trouble. I am certain how he feels and thinks about Sky. As he said, he believed in this years Tour until stage 10.

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

Trojan wrote: »

I'm not saying he's wrong, read it in context

Yeah I know what you mean now.

lismuse

Sam Bennett gives a candid account of his Tour experience on Journal.ie. Link http://www.the42.ie/sam-bennett-tour-de-france-2231415-Jul2015/

dastardly00

Alberto Contador

https://twitter.com/AndreGreipel/status/624285553647857664