***2015 LC Maths Paper 1 - Ordinary Level - June 5th***

linguist

I'm going to butt in here for a second - believe me I never thought I'd post in a Maths forum:) I usually post in French and Spanish which I teach and I have long experience as an LC French examiner. So what I am I doing in here?

I realise there's a lot of upset people tonight and I don't think you've been helped by some of the media commentary. I'll come back to that!

This is what I want to say and I want people who are upset and angry to take a moment to read it calmly. THINGS WILL BE OK! I know that it's difficult to appreciate that just now, but with the exception of your Junior Cert, these exams are different to anything you've done before because right now, tonight, the marking scheme doesn't even exist! And even when a draft one is drawn up over the next week or so, it will not be set in stone. The SEC works on the basis that if the marks being achieved are out of line with other years, the problem is the exam and not the candidates. If you look back over the grade statistics issued each year, you will see clearly that the percentage achieving each grade only changes very slightly from one year to the next. They will draw up a marking scheme that ensures that students of differing levels of ability are rewarded in line with that ability. Bluntly, if everything in your marks in maths pointed to a B this morning, you are still more than likely going to come out with a B in August! The only answer that cannot be given credit in some form is no answer at all - a blank space.

Let me come back to the media commentators. John Brennan's comments have caused hurt. I get that - not least as someone who took ordinary maths myself. All I'll say is that Brennan comments on the paper every year. But what really matters is the marking scheme. He should know better.

Now I know that even if you've read this far, you might still go to bed fearing that your exam will somehow fall through the safety net. Trust me, everything is done to ensure that every candidate experiencing the same level of difficulty is treated equally. That's what a public examination exists to do - provide a fair and transparent outcome. Meanwhile, you've a big week next week and you owe it to yourself to trust the examiners to look after you now.

gracew

antifun wrote: »

While doing the last question, I noticed a mistake in the grammar. At first, I thought the car she bought was named Cathal because they missed a comma.

"On the day that Amanda bought her car Cathal also bought a new car."

I mean, it doesn't really matter. But come on, do they even proofread their ****?

Grammar and spelling on Irish layout was just as bad, if I hadn't of had the English layout too I wouldn't have been able to comprehend most of the questions

andreideeu

can someone tell me what formula i needed to use for the "Find the area of the quadrilateral OCBA" question

thx
.

westernfrenzy

Jijsaw wrote: »

Me too, I was hoping somebody else would say it first
What's done is done, we can only look to the future.

getting that answer is a pretty good indicator of how well the rest of the exam went for me.

Jijsaw

incubus15 wrote: »

are you serious, those were probably the easiest questions on the paper.

Various people find different questions challenging and easy. You might do a paper next week that you might think was very difficult but westernfrenzy might have found simple. It's horses for courses.

I also found questions 6 and 7 challenging and I don't think they were the "easiest questions on the paper"

DT1

ShaunDaSheep wrote: »

Why was this not covered on RTE news tonight. It really should have been to raise the awareness!!

Probably because RTE are the most biased news agency in this country. Sick of the their typical D4 arrogance. They probably just sided with the higher level students. Have you noticed that they reported on English Paper 1 and Paper 2 but not maths? Yep, 100% biased in my book.

MmmPancakes

andreideeu wrote: »

can someone tell me what formula i needed to use for the "Find the area of the quadrilateral OCBA" question

thx
.

You find A and B (1,4) and (3,6) respectively, then split it into shapes that are easy to work with

Just using 1/2b x perp. height and area of a rectangle

edit: here is the solution: http://prntscr.com/7dlp8f

Jijsaw

DT1 wrote: »

Probably because RTE are the most biased news agency in this country. Sick of the their typical D4 arrogance. They probably just sided with the higher level students. Have you noticed that they reported on English Paper 1 and Paper 2 but not maths? Yep, 100% biased in my book.

I think they do that every year though, I never seem to remember them commentating on the exams past English P2. Although it is a bit strange that they didn't say anything about the disappointment in OL maths but sure it's not like we can get the SEC to give us a clean slate and a new (more traditional) Paper 1

leavingcert15

For the complex no. is (3,1) (3,-1) when reflected?

Peregrine

DT1 wrote: »

Probably because RTE are the most biased news agency in this country. Sick of the their typical D4 arrogance. They probably just sided with the higher level students. Have you noticed that they reported on English Paper 1 and Paper 2 but not maths? Yep, 100% biased in my book.

I know you're upset but you're reading too much into it. TV and radio always cover the first two exams and then that's that. Predicting poets is a national sport in June. Only newspapers keep track of the exams after English.

And please tone down on the stereotypes.

skippy1977

Duplicated this post as I felt it was relevant to both threads.

I'd sum it up like this. Of course the Higher Level Paper was more difficult than the Ordinary and if people found the Ordinary hard they would have definitely struggled with the Higher Level Paper.

The Higher wasn't simple and the Ordinary wasn't impossible BUT the Higher Level Paper was below the standard it should have been. This is to ensure that the 1/3 of extra people who are doing the subject (and who realistically aren't able) get through. The Financial Maths question was ridiculously easy and of ordinary level standard (if not in content). As was a number of other parts but it was also quite tricky in places). It will be marked accordingly and a similar amount of people will get A's, B's and C's etc as always.
The Ordinary Level Paper was a good bit above the standard it should have been. There is no doubt about that. It's easy for a Higher Level student to look at the Paper and say 'well where is the hard parts??' but that's why you are in higher level. Remember that the majority of students who are taking the Ordinary Level struggle with Maths, at the very least in the higher order thinking sections. They had some quiet simple stuff also but alot of the paper was presented in a way unfamiliar to them. Again the marking scheme will be adjusted and the same amount of people will get A's, B's and C's. Don't be a bit surprised to see a marking scheme that gives 15 marks for 7(a), 15 marks for 7(b) 10 for 7(c), 10 for 7 (d)...all doable...and 20 marks for the (f-h).

So at it's level the Ordinary Paper was much trickier...but obviously an easier Paper overall. My advice to everyone is to nail your Paper 2 whatever the level. You are all competing on the curve and it's not how easy or difficult it is....it's how easy or difficult it is relative to other students in the hall!

Kremin

Nim wrote: »

I know you're upset but you're reading too much into it. The media always cover the first two exams and then that's that. Predicting poets is a national sport in June. Only newspapers keep track of the exams after English.

And please tone down on the stereotypes.

I think peoples emotions are just generally running high tonight as a lot of them think they just failed the exam and their college applications are out the window... when anyone who attempted any question will probably not fail.
Guess this is why they say don't change your cao applications after the exams because you don't know how well you did :l

Kremin

skippy1977 wrote: »

Duplicated this post as I felt it was relevant to both threads.

I'd sum it up like this. Of course the Higher Level Paper was more difficult than the Ordinary and if people found the Ordinary hard they would have definitely struggled with the Higher Level Paper.

The Higher wasn't simple and the Ordinary wasn't impossible BUT the Higher Level Paper was below the standard it should have been. This is to ensure that the 1/3 of extra people who are doing the subject (and who realistically aren't able) get through. The Financial Maths question was ridiculously easy and of ordinary level standard (if not in content). As was a number of other parts but it was also quiet tricky in places). It will be marked accordingly and a similar amount of people will get A's, B's and C's etc as always.
The Ordinary Level Paper was a good bit above the standard it should have been. There is no doubt about that. It's easy for a Higher Level student to look at the Paper and say 'well where is the hard parts??' but that's why you are in higher level. Remember that the majority of students who are taking the Ordinary Level struggle with Maths, at the very least in the higher order thinking sections. They had some quiet simple stuff also but alot of the paper was presented in a way unfamiliar to them. Again the marking scheme will be adjusted and the same amount of people will get A's, B's and C's. Don't be a bit surprised to see a marking scheme that gives 15 marks for 7(a), 15 marks for 7(b) 15 for 7(c), 10 for 7 (d)...all doable...and 20 marks for the (f-h).

So at it's level the Ordinary Paper was much trickier...but obviously an easier Paper overall. My advice to everyone is to nail your Paper 2 whatever the level. You are all competing on the curve and it's not how easy or difficult it is....it's how easy or difficult it is relative to other students in the hall!

Exactly, honestly, if the higher level paper was ridiculously hard like the DEBS mock i guarantee this whole argument would be flipped and everyone who did the HL paper would be worrying about failing.

I still think last years maths paper 1 was easier than todays, some people had no clue how to solve a cubic function without being given the roots initially so..

Ansum

I clicked onto this thread to see what all the commotion was about, and reading through the comments I can see most people are not happy with the ordinary level paper. Well all I can say is what's done is done, look to paper 2. And hopefully they shape the marking scheme to relieve peoples anxieties.
(I am doing H.L. maths)

ShaunDaSheep

Kremin wrote: »

Exactly, honestly, if the higher level paper was ridiculously hard like the DEBS mock i guarantee this whole argument would be flipped and everyone who did the HL paper would be worrying about failing.

I still think last years maths paper 1 was easier than todays, some people had no clue how to solve a cubic function without being given the roots initially so..

I have to say I highly disagree with you. The higher level paper has every right to be as hard as the Debs Mock. Any student taking Higher level maths should have it as their most important and well revised subjects. After all they are getting an extra 25 points on top of their grade if they pass so why the hell should it not be difficult ? People who sit OL maths normally do not want it for points, they know its a subject which at higher level would take too much time from other subjects as they have no aptitude for maths. OL students do OL because they want to have some pressure taken off and then to get presented with a paper like todays is like a punishment for not having an aptitude for maths. In my opinion they should be scrapping the whole 25 extra points unless a student is intending on pursuing a Maths related college course where the points can then be used for entry. Ridiculous System.

antifun

ShaunDaSheep wrote: »

I have to say I highly disagree with you. The higher level paper has every right to be as hard as the Debs Mock. Any student taking Higher level maths should have it as their most important and well revised subjects. After all they are getting an extra 25 points on top of their grade if they pass so why the hell should it not be difficult ? People who sit OL maths normally do not want it for points, they know its a subject which at higher level would take too much time from other subjects as they have no aptitude for maths. OL students do OL because they want to have some pressure taken off and then to get presented with a paper like todays is like a punishment for not having an aptitude for maths. In my opinion they should be scrapping the whole 25 extra points unless a student is intending on pursuing a Maths related college course where the points can then be used for entry. Ridiculous System.

They won't scrape the points, even when hell freezes over. I don't think they should, just make the marking scheme a bit tougher.

But, if they do, I'd be wiser to add 25 points onto the ordinary.

It literally has the same effect, but less people would moan.

MmmPancakes

ShaunDaSheep wrote: »

I have to say I highly disagree with you. The higher level paper has every right to be as hard as the Debs Mock. Any student taking Higher level maths should have it as their most important and well revised subjects. After all they are getting an extra 25 points on top of their grade if they pass so why the hell should it not be difficult ? People who sit OL maths normally do not want it for points, they know its a subject which at higher level would take too much time from other subjects as they have no aptitude for maths. OL students do OL because they want to have some pressure taken off and then to get presented with a paper like todays is like a punishment for not having an aptitude for maths. In my opinion they should be scrapping the whole 25 extra points unless a student is intending on pursuing a Maths related college course where the points can then be used for entry. Ridiculous System.

The DEB mock was ridiculously hard, though.. like next-level difficult. I got 92 on the examcraft one and scraped 70 on the DEB one. It was so, so, sososososo hard

KatieGhomie

antifun wrote: »

While doing the last question, I noticed a mistake in the grammar. At first, I thought the car she bought was named Cathal because they missed a comma.

"On the day that Amanda bought her car Cathal also bought a new car."

I mean, it doesn't really matter. But come on, do they even proofread their ****?

ahahah Funny you spotted that as well (clearly I spend more time on English haha ):D
I actually inserted the comma hahaaha & just to show them their silly mistake.You're right they definitely didn't proofread this paper.

Kremin

ShaunDaSheep wrote: »

I have to say I highly disagree with you. The higher level paper has every right to be as hard as the Debs Mock. Any student taking Higher level maths should have it as their most important and well revised subjects. After all they are getting an extra 25 points on top of their grade if they pass so why the hell should it not be difficult ? People who sit OL maths normally do not want it for points, they know its a subject which at higher level would take too much time from other subjects as they have no aptitude for maths. OL students do OL because they want to have some pressure taken off and then to get presented with a paper like todays is like a punishment for not having an aptitude for maths. In my opinion they should be scrapping the whole 25 extra points unless a student is intending on pursuing a Maths related college course where the points can then be used for entry. Ridiculous System.

Because the leaving cert is a course of 6-7 subjects for most people, not just one... I know a lot of people who dropped because they knew if they stayed up at HL it would have consumed way too much of their time... and everything else would have suffered with it.

If the exam was harder than the debs mock a lot of people would fail, degrees which require HL would need to drop their standards etc.

Peregrine

My advice would be to just forget about Paper 1 and carry on. I had a look at the paper and yes, it was difficult and it was different to what you were used to but it was like that for everyone and there's no way everyone will fail! They will adjust the marking scheme accordingly. And the fail % or the A, B % etc. won't be that much different from last year either. There's so much discussion about the paper and how it was answered that goes on behind the scenes between now and August.

Here's the Paper 2 thread and there's a thread for most other subjects.

Onwards and upwards

Kremin

Nim wrote: »

My advice would be to just forget about Paper 1 and carry on. I had a look at the paper and yes, it was difficult and it was different to what you were used to but it was like that for everyone and there's no way everyone will fail! They will adjust the marking scheme accordingly. And the fail % or the A, B % etc. won't be that much different from last year either. There's so much that goes on behind the scenes for each subject between now and August.

Here's the Paper 2 thread and there's a thread for most other subjects.

Onwards and upwards

All about that bell curve ay

Peregrine

Kremin wrote: »

All about that bell curve ay

I was trying to not say that

Buckley710

TheSunderz wrote: »

What did people get for the last question ? something like 50010km ? also did people use the trapezoidal rule to get the area of the parallelogram or whatever it was called ?

I got 50'000km and it worked. I just did different tables of 15.30.45.60'000 exc. 45'000 was too low and 60'000 was too high, i tried 50 and both answers were equal,
it was more guess work than maths calculations, by far one of the worst laid out papers i've seen

KatieGhomie

Hopefully everyone's paper one will be marked well and that the marking scheme will b changed to make up for crazy questions like for eg the complex number one ,praying paper two isn't horrible

randylonghorn

Kremin wrote: »

I think peoples emotions are just generally running high tonight as a lot of them think they just failed the exam and their college applications are out the window... when anyone who attempted any question will probably not fail.
Guess this is why they say don't change your cao applications after the exams because you don't know how well you did :l

Spot on on both counts.

Hard paper => marked more generously.


Ok, advice.

Ignore it if you will, but ...

Let it go now. Forget about it. Stop gnashing the teeth and looking for someone to shout at.

Get a good night's sleep, and tomorrow, start thinking about Monday.

Chicharito11

I actually physically despise the SEC after that today, an absolute disgrace. That's my C3 gone, no entry requirement for me. Feel physically ill.

MmmPancakes

Chicharito11 wrote: »

I actually physically despise the SEC after that today, an absolute disgrace. That's my C3 gone, no entry requirement for me. Feel physically ill.

They will front-load marks in the marking scheme, don't worry

jane411

I only looked through the paper and I immediately thought god this is not going to end well. I found it difficult and I would consider myself pretty good at maths or so I thought

randylonghorn

Chicharito11 wrote: »

I actually physically despise the SEC after that today, an absolute disgrace. That's my C3 gone, no entry requirement for me. Feel physically ill.

You don't know that, as previous poster said, tough paper => easier marking.

The thing to do now is concentrate on Paper 2, and do the best you can on it. It's unlikely enough that you will get two bitchy papers.

Chicharito11

randylonghorn wrote: »

You don't know that, as previous poster said, tough paper => easier marking.

The thing to do now is concentrate on Paper 2, and do the best you can on it. It's unlikely enough that you will get two bitchy papers.

Iv been told that but it's not really worth anything to me, some questions were so hard and random I could barely put down any attempts at them.