HELP! Tenant Won't Leave!

NFH

I am looking for advice for my friends (husband and wife) who are renting a 3 bed house to one abomination of a woman (30) who won't leave. She moved in two months ago while two other girls were also living there. Her behavior drove the other two girls. She had her boyfriend move in unaware to the owners, as well as her dog which is against owners wishes, has turned the place into a dump and has had numerous parties one of which ended up with the guards arresting her for possession of drugs (ongoing matter).

The owners have expressed to her they want her out but she is one of these loud scumbags that knows all her rights and threatens them with this and that, and basically will not leave. And when I mean won't leave I mean never, either her or the boyfriend are in the house at any time and when they are there they keep the key in the lock so the owners cant enter.

The guards will not help as they say its a civil matter and the process of getting help through the PTRB is very slow. They are genuinely afraid of her as they don't know what shes capable of. The house is now in an absolute state (pictures taken). At this point they have been advised by friends with a bit of knowledge on this matter that physically getting her out of the house, locking the door and throwing her stuff out the window is their best bet because once shes out she has no rights and the courts wont listen to her. They are fairly sure she has done this before also.

Any advice would be very appreciated.

Youngblood.III

Maybe offer her money to feck off....

antoinolachtnai

Have they given notice in the required form?

Have they referred the dispute to prtb formally?

Have they gotten their paperwork checked by someone knowledgeable?

EDIT: there is a particular issue in this case, that the person who is in the property and whom the OP's friends are in dispute with is not the tenant. This makes for a very technical situation. My advice would be to keep in touch with the tenants and get legal advice. I say this because the Garda may be willing to deal with the matter if the tenants (who are still responsible for the property, unless the landlord has released them) complain. The landlord needs to be very careful about their action and make sure the correct people are named on the PRTB papers.

TheChizler

How did they get the pictures? Sounds like they're not the type to allow inspections. I'd be telling the owners to be very careful and follow the process to the letter, sounds like they've already nearly made big mistakes by trying to get in without the tenant's consent (finding out the key is in the door).

They're there less than 6 months so they can be asked to leave for no reason and just given the required notice, formally. Unless they have a fixed lease. Sounds like the owners aren't familiar with the process so it might be worth getting someone with knowledge, like a solicitor, looking over the eviction letter and rest of the process.

Atlantic Dawn

Does she have a lease?

The_Conductor

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Does she have a lease?

Big time- does she have a lease?
What is the story with the other tenants who left- did they have leases?
What terms and articles are in these leases (if such leases exist.

The OP *needs* to get her out of there- before she acquires Part IV rights, under the 2004 Act. As she has only been there 2 months- she has no rights (other than those the landlord choose to grant to her in the lease- if she has one).

Solicitor time quick- its well worth spending a few schekels to ensure you keep all of your actions legal- but you need to get her out quick.

punisher5112

If this girl was taken in by the other 2 that were originally in the house then she has no rights and can be turfed out now.

If the LL agreed to her entering the property and added her to the lease then it will be difficult but if there is a clause in the lease you may have grounds to terminate also before 6 months are up before gets even more difficult.


As said above only legal ways can be discussed on here but I am sure the LL knows what they need to do or it will be costly with huge rent arrears which won't be recovered and damaged property.

johnnyskeleton

NFH wrote: »

The guards will not help as they say its a civil matter

What crime has she committed? If you have evidence that she deliberately damaged property that might be an offence.

and the process of getting help through the PTRB is very slow.

Just because it takes time to go down the correct legal route doesnt mean you can just ignore it. From the sounds of it your friends are unclear as to whether she has breached a term of the lease, served notice to quit etc. They cannot simply ignore the law.

They are genuinely afraid of her as they don't know what shes capable of.

Then they should hire a professional lettig agent to deal with her. It costs money, but they provide a valuable service to amateur landlords.

At this point they have been advised by friends with a bit of knowledge on this matter that physically getting her out of the house, locking the door and throwing her stuff out the window is their best bet because once shes out she has no rights and the courts wont listen to her.

That is why it is so important to take your legal advice from a randomer who claims to know about this stuff rather than a lawyer who actually knows the law. If they think that the courts wont listen to someone who is illegally evicted they are quite wrong.

NFH

Thanks for the replies.

They took photos of the communal areas (kitchen etc) when they were over collecting a bike of a previous tenant as a favour. They notified the woman that when they would be over and that's when they noticed she had her key in the door and actually some furniture in the way of the door. She removed this when she realised it was the landlord outside (this was just before things got nasty and when the landlord asked her to leave).

I'm not sure if they gave her written warning and yes they have contacted the PTRB to get things moving.

To clarify some points, the landlords dont refer to themselves as landlords but instead homeowners or something like that because while they have been renting the house over the last 4 years they have also used the top room in the house to stay over for the odd weekend or odd week during the summers.

There is no lease, they have never had the tenants sign a lease. They would just collect the rent every month and sort things like ESB and bins.

They spoke to a solicitor who said this is a tricky situation and actually said "sure you probably know more about this than me". I told them to find another solicitor.

antoinolachtnai

Your advice is very sound. If I were doing this myself, I might take a different course, but they really don't know much about what they are doing and need to get a grip on things.

It doesn't seem like a lease situation to me, more like a licence, but they really need a solicitor who is interested in such things. Most are not going to be because it going to be time consuming and thankless, and there is going to be little enough money in it for him.

You don't 'contact PRTB to get things moving'. You either refer a dispute, or you don't. Referring the dispute is really something they need to discuss with the solicitor.

foggy_lad

NFH wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

They took photos of the communal areas (kitchen etc) when they were over collecting a bike of a previous tenant as a favour. They notified the woman that when they would be over and that's when they noticed she had her key in the door and actually some furniture in the way of the door. She removed this when she realised it was the landlord outside (this was just before things got nasty and when the landlord asked her to leave).

I'm not sure if they gave her written warning and yes they have contacted the PTRB to get things moving.

To clarify some points, the landlords dont refer to themselves as landlords but instead homeowners or something like that because while they have been renting the house over the last 4 years they have also used the top room in the house to stay over for the odd weekend or odd week during the summers.

There is no lease, they have never had the tenants sign a lease. They would just collect the rent every month and sort things like ESB and bins.

They spoke to a solicitor who said this is a tricky situation and actually said "sure you probably know more about this than me". I told them to find another solicitor.

The owners if the house are not landlords then and the people in the house are not tenants and do not have rights as tenants. They are licencees and can be given as little as 24hours notice or less in the case of barricadingnthe doors and being arrested at the house for drugs possession. The owner needs to enter the house and move into the room they live in NOW, TODAY! They should not leave until these people are gone and locks changed!

Ring the gardai if necessary and tell them that they are not tenants but they are guests in the house who will not leave!

antoinolachtnai

I don't disagree with that advice. However, I think the OP's friends need to get their own legal advice.

The_Conductor

From the description you've given- they are *not* a tenant.
If you have kept a room in the house for personal use- USE IT.

If you have not kept a room there for personal use- and used it- its a different story.

This does not come under the PRTB- it is not a landlord/tenant issue- and if you refer it to them- you are potentially conferring rights to her under the 2004 Act- that she is not entitled to.

Talk to a solicitor who actually knows what they are talking about- the current one doesn't know their arse from their elbow.

Cuddlesworth

Personally, if I had a room in my house that I used to live there. Where all the bills were in my name. Where I was also renting out rooms in said house and had a tenant like this, I would begin to stay full time in said room for as long as the PRTB case took to adjurn if lodged and put said tenants property on the side of the road with a hearty adios. Being clear of the difference between a lease on a property, and a licensee within a property.

TheChizler

I would get them to read up on this but it sounds like the 'tenant' doesn't have exclusive use of the property so the owners may be in luck. Again, get it checked out by a solicitor.

loyatemu

if there is no lease (and never has been) and she's only been there 2 months, surely she's no more than a squatter?

quagmire47

loyatemu wrote: »

if there is no lease (and never has been) and she's only been there 2 months, surely she's no more than a squatter?

I agree. Perhaps the home owner gave the wrong information to the Gardai when making the complaint.

From what I've read the person in the house has no contract permitting them to be there. If it were me, I would make a new complaint to the Gardai that a person was squatting/trespassing on my property against my permission, rather than mentioning anything about landlord/tenant.

Also, having a competent solicitor on their side is a matter of urgency in my opinion.

A truly horrible situation.

NFH

quagmire47 wrote: »

I agree. Perhaps the home owner gave the wrong information to the Gardai when making the complaint.

From what I've read the person in the house has no contract permitting them to be there. If it were me, I would make a new complaint to the Gardai that a person was squatting/trespassing on my property against my permission, rather than mentioning anything about landlord/tenant.

Also, having a competent solicitor on their side is a matter of urgency in my opinion.

A truly horrible situation.

I completely agree and that's how I would have tried to resolve the situation but unfortunately that's not what they did.

The girls scumbag dad came down and they had some sort of meeting in the house, where the dad proceeded to go off the handle at the girl, told her to leave the room, but ended convincing them to give her back her deposit and (€300) and "a lot more on top of that", not sure about the figure. They were had in my opinion but at least the situation is over I suppose.

dissed doc

NFH wrote: »

I am looking for advice for my friends (husband and wife) who are renting a 3 bed house to one abomination of a woman (30) who won't leave. She moved in two months ago while two other girls were also living there. Her behavior drove the other two girls. She had her boyfriend move in unaware to the owners, as well as her dog which is against owners wishes, has turned the place into a dump and has had numerous parties one of which ended up with the guards arresting her for possession of drugs (ongoing matter).

The owners have expressed to her they want her out but she is one of these loud scumbags that knows all her rights and threatens them with this and that, and basically will not leave. And when I mean won't leave I mean never, either her or the boyfriend are in the house at any time and when they are there they keep the key in the lock so the owners cant enter.

The guards will not help as they say its a civil matter and the process of getting help through the PTRB is very slow. They are genuinely afraid of her as they don't know what shes capable of. The house is now in an absolute state (pictures taken). At this point they have been advised by friends with a bit of knowledge on this matter that physically getting her out of the house, locking the door and throwing her stuff out the window is their best bet because once shes out she has no rights and the courts wont listen to her. They are fairly sure she has done this before also.

Any advice would be very appreciated.

Start the normal eviction process, even if it is slow, do it all, by the book, or it will cost you in the long term (she is of higher value/ranking in Irish society than your friend, so will win compensation). And also, sue her for causing you stress. And if you suspect there are drugs on the premises, phone the police. Keep dates of all contacts, but start the normal legal eviction process immediately and phone the police immediately if you suspect drugs.

Is using drugs grounds for immediate eviction or grounds for cuddling and there-thereing by the state? I forget...

aunt aggie

NFH wrote: »

I completely agree and that's how I would have tried to resolve the situation but unfortunately that's not what they did.

The girls scumbag dad came down and they had some sort of meeting in the house, where the dad proceeded to go off the handle at the girl, told her to leave the room, but ended convincing them to give her back her deposit and (€300) and "a lot more on top of that", not sure about the figure. They were had in my opinion but at least the situation is over I suppose.

So is she out now?? Paying off unwanted tenant or licensees is not the way they want to go, especially as they will more than likely have a lot of expenses after she leaves. Maybe they can make local landlords/management companies aware of this woman because if she's done this once, she will try again.

And get future tenants to sign a lease. I would never stay somewhere without a lease and would be very wary of people who would accept such a situation. It leaves both parties open to been taken advantage of.

whomitconcerns

so hang on they moved in no rights to be there, wrecked the place and got paid off..now thats a winning formula for them to rinse and repeat.

Pkiernan

NFH wrote: »

...

I'm not sure if they gave her written warning and yes they have contacted the PTRB to get things moving.

To clarify some points, the landlords dont refer to themselves as landlords but instead homeowners or something like that because while they have been renting the house over the last 4 years they have also used the top room in the house to stay over for the odd weekend or odd week during the summers.

There is no lease, they have never had the tenants sign a lease. They would just collect the rent every month and sort things like ESB and bins.

No lease, yet the issue was reported to the PRTB?? Sounds like that might open a can of worms...

Mrs OBumble

NFH wrote: »

The girls scumbag dad came down and they had some sort of meeting in the house, where the dad proceeded to go off the handle at the girl, told her to leave the room, but ended convincing them to give her back her deposit and (€300) and "a lot more on top of that", not sure about the figure. They were had in my opinion but at least the situation is over I suppose.

Just be glad that she's gone and the house is still intact.

Much though people hate the idea of paying trouble to leave, the reality is that it is what professional LL's often do when they find they have made a mistake.

Hope they have better luck with future tenants.