Cop freed by judge,unbelievable.***Graphic Video in OP***

Samaris

mynamejeff wrote: »

I hope to Christ that this comment is some sort of satire ?

you state that your not going to even look at a tiny bit of the evidence but i fell the need to voice a opinion none the less ? FFS

May have just gone from the first post, which is a reasonable summary of events. The link itself is pretty graphic and horrifying and shows a young man being killed.

It does seem to be a rather shocking indictment of this weirdly..military training that US police seem to receive. Police /= military and they should not be trained as such.

Call Me Jimmy

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Here's a link for a Salt Lake Tribune article about the case..


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58472404-78/taylor-cruz-hands-gill.html.csp

That changes things, all 3 happened to be wearing clothes matching descriptions. Still think there was not enough threat to warrant a shooting

NachoBusiness

Almost identical to the shooting of Amadou Diallo back in '99.

There's been over a dozen songs written about him.

Dillion was white though, yeah?

Doubt he'll be seen as being worthy of a ballad so.

KKkitty

mynamejeff wrote: »

I hope to Christ that this comment is some sort of satire ?

you state that your not going to even look at a tiny bit of the evidence but i fell the need to voice a opinion none the less ? FFS

My post isn't satire let me tell you. I looked at the poor man being shot and I don't care what you think but anyone with any sense should know that he didn't pose an immediate threat. An armed cop whose gun is ready to go VS a man who never showed any weapon isn't a fair fight to me.

Arsemageddon

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Almost identical to the shooting of Amadou Diallo back in '99.

There's been over a dozen songs written about him.

Dillion was white though, yeah?

Doubt he'll be seen as being worthy of a ballad so.

Actually it's utterly different o the shooting of Amadou Diallo. Four cops fired 41 rounds at him and hit him 19 times. The Taylor killing had one cop firing two shots.

Still though, I'm impressed that you've managed to use this tenuous link to stand up for the oppressed white American male.

That video is shocking.. It's just murder that is acceptable because of a "threat".

Why do people even call the police anymore and report "suspicious activity"? You're giving the police a license to kill anyone who matches your description.

I'm surprised these cops don't get lynched.

Carlos Orange

Samaris wrote: »

The original report in 2014 did give the "nah, fool" comment, that was later retracted. The video evidence does show he didn't say anything, as you later hear the cop say "what the hell were you reaching for, man". So no, there's no real evidence that Taylor -did- hear him.

Who is speaking at 34 seconds then and why did he turn around?

NachoBusiness

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Actually it's utterly different o the shooting of Amadou Diallo. Four cops fired 41 rounds at him and hit him 19 times. The Taylor killing had one cop firing two shots.

I was referring to the fact that that both were shot by Police when it felt that each was reaching for a weapon, when in fact both were unarmed.

Still though, I'm impressed that you've managed to use this tenuous link to stand up for the oppressed white American male.

Where did I suggest white American males were oppressed? Nowhere.

What I am suggesting though is that the liberal media and celebrities alike, couldn't give two hoots about white people being murdered by the Police. There is nothing in it for them. Liberal credibility is only plentiful for speaking up for a minority you see. Therefore Michael Brown, Amadou Diallo are perfect in that capacity. James Boyd and Dillon Taylor, not so much.

eyeball kid

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

...you can't start playing with a cop in the US when he has gun drawn on you.

The thing is I'd have absolutely no idea how I'd react in that situation. I might react camly and do what he says or I could freeze, and do nothing or some sort of fight or flight instincts might kick in and I could try to run for it. Two of those options could get me shot. No one can really know how they'd react to a gun pointed at your face.

Cee-Jay-Cee

It's getting ridiculous in the U.S. Cops are nervous and responding to calls on their own when they should be waiting for back up. I don't think he intentionally meant to kill the guy but he was clearly in the wrong and I don't see how anyone could say it was justified.

Eugene Norman

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Pretty sure the shootings of Jean Charles de Menzies and Mark Duggan in London were reported here by the media.

The reason that these kind of shootings in the US are commented on so much is because of the frequency which they occur compared to Europe and the increasing availability of video footage. Also worth noting that we are culturally very similar - yanks speak the same language as us (well, sort of) and have a similar legal system.

Saying we shouldn't be discussing events because they happen far away is just nonsense. If you don't want to discuss it or think it's relevant then why bother posting in the thread?

The first shooting was a important European event as it was an attack on journalists in Europe and a terrorist attack too. The second was more regional and less important to Ireland. It was also rare (as are all killings by police in these islands) Nevertheless it was over covered here too

This kind of thing didn't or rarely make the news before and frankly it is just because of the Internet and continued American domination of the minds of English speakers it dominates discussion.

The U.S. isn't in fact the most dangerous part of the world, not by a long shot. And that includes killing by cops. In Mexico, in October, about 42 students were arrested by police for demonstrating, handed over to gangs associated with the police and killed.

42 kids. Killed by cops. In league with gangs. For protesting. Where the outrage?

That happened in the time between Ferguson and Baltimore. Not a jot of news. Not a thread. About as far away as the U.S.

#nonamericanlivesmatter

I know about it because I used to live in Mexico and get news feeds from it.

The whole discussion, and the thread title often forgets to mention America at all. A cop is released by a judge? I honestly thought this was something to do with Donegal.

And since everybody thinks they are living in the U.S., Irish liberals sound like American liberals, and the right wingers sound like Fox News. What about [should be] obscure American white guy killed by American cops? What about that Anericanised Liberals?

Punt these threads off to the U.S. Forum.

Drakares

The guy was clearly an idiot.

When a police officer is pointing a gun at you, demanding that you put your hands up, you do it.

The guy understood and heard perfectly, but instead of just cooperating he replied "Naw fool" then pulled his hands suddenly out of his pants.

The cop was right to shoot.

Hagar7

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It's getting ridiculous in the U.S. Cops are nervous and responding to calls on their own when they should be waiting for back up. I don't think he intentionally meant to kill the guy but he was clearly in the wrong and I don't see how anyone could say it was justified.

What scares me is there are folk who seem to justify this killing.
I posted a link a few weeks ago about the brutal attack on a Benfica fan,I couldn't believe the amount of folk on BIE who thought it was a wee argument.

enfant terrible

Samaris wrote: »

The original report in 2014 did give the "nah, fool" comment, that was later retracted. The video evidence does show he didn't say anything, as you later hear the cop say "what the hell were you reaching for, man". So no, there's no real evidence that Taylor -did- hear him.

Have you a link to it been retracted?

One possible reason he acted the way he did

http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/s-sl-shooting-dillion-facebook-post-2-explicit-copy1.jpg

NachoBusiness

Drakares wrote: »

The guy was clearly an idiot.

When a police officer is pointing a gun at you, demanding that you put your hands up, you do it.

The guy understood and heard perfectly, but instead of just cooperating he replied "Naw fool" then pulled his hands suddenly out of his pants.

The cop was right to shoot.

LOL.

You complain on one hand that the guy wouldn't take his hands out of his pants when instructed to and then in the next line of your post say the cop was justified in shooting him because he took his hands out of his pants.

You couldn't make it up.

Bongalongherb

This is what happens when you allow psychopaths to enter the police-force.

I watched the video and now wish I hadn't. Trigger-happy cop/psychopath. Makes me sick.

Bongalongherb

Drakares wrote: »

The guy was clearly an idiot.

When a police officer is pointing a gun at you, demanding that you put your hands up, you do it.

The guy understood and heard perfectly, but instead of just cooperating he replied "Naw fool" then pulled his hands suddenly out of his pants.

The cop was right to shoot.

You obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about, what a stupid post.

If this is a good reason to shoot a man dead then it is of the thinking of a madman. Very disturbing.

razorblunt

To shoot him in the chest and then turn him over to handcuff him leaving him face down was barbaric.

NachoBusiness

razorblunt wrote: »

To shoot him in the chest and then turn him over to handcuff him leaving him face down was barbaric.

He kept giving him instructions also: 'Your hands, give me your hands, now!' he says as he struggles with the arm of a man gurgling and swirling in his own blood.

I just find it shocking that the last thing this guy heard before he pulled his hands from his pants and was shot dead was: "Get them out!!"

He was executed for doing what he was told to do.

animaal

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Punt these threads off to the U.S. Forum.

The Mexico story sounds interesting, you should start a thread if you'd like it discussed. I wouldn't propose it be moved to some Mexico forum.

As for this thread, I haven't watched the video, I've no interest in seeing somebody's life end. A person's death should be a private matter. I believe that the more people view the video, the more we take from his dignity. But that''s just my subjective opinion, I know others would differ.

Having said all that, the world is a smaller place now. Saying that people shouldn't discuss these things in this forum because they happened over in America sounds like a guy in the 1950s asking why the hell we're discussing the goings-on way over in the next parish.

sheesh

razorblunt wrote: »

To shoot him in the chest and then turn him over to handcuff him leaving him face down was barbaric.

in fairness to the cop I would assume that this is what they are told to do.
It is awful though, no dignity even as he lay dying.

Obviously the police are trained that if their instructions are not heeded they are to fire.

I wonder if it is on the basis that it is cheaper to kill a young black man than to have to support a cops family for the rest of their lives.

Reg'stoy

That's the problem with the states, they want everyone irrespective of medical background checks or criminal background checks to be allowed to 'open carry' (have a handgun in a holster like the wildwest) because it is their god given right under their constitution.

So every cop approaching anyone; has to assume that they are carrying a concealed weapon. 126 police officers were killed in the line of duty in 2014 and more still were wounded. Cutbacks in every major police department now means more officers are less well trained, less well paid and patrol by them selves. A lot more former members of the military become police officers, having completed numerous overseas deployments to the Iraq etc and so have possible mental health problems (PTSD) associated with those trips. I not surprised cops are very nervous and so 'trigger quick'.

Police and military are trained to shoot at the largest portion of the human body; the chest. Only in movies do cops attempt to shoot limbs or guns from hands. They are also trained to restrain the person, a wounded person is as capable of shooting as an uninjured person. Until a weapon is found or not the individual is considered armed and dangerous and so handcuffed.

The video is tragic, but avoidable. The person turned towards the cop and put both hands in his pockets, he continued to step back when commanded to stop. He rather than take his hands out slowly, jerked them rapidly out. When the cop saw the quick hand movement; his training took over, is there a treat to my life. He was following up on reports of an armed individual/s.

He may have been quick to shoot under our irish attitude to policing but we don't know the area or what was going on. I'm not saying the cop was right to shoot, but from the video; and remember that's all the evidence we have, is he may not have been criminally wrong to shoot. More importantly we could rewatch the video clip and slow it down or pause it; the cop lived those moments in real time and had to make a decision there and then and from his comment "what were you grabbing for" genuinely thought his life may have been in danger.

the_syco

I wonder did the person who rang the cops use a burner phone? You'd wonder if it was assination by cop if so.

Captain Chaos

razorblunt wrote: »

To shoot him in the chest and then turn him over to handcuff him leaving him face down was barbaric.

That's standard training for any armed police. Alot of times one shot won't kill a person outright and if they are armed can shoot back, or get up and escape. They are trained to aim and shoot at centre mass regardless, not like the movies with a leg or arm shot. Even armed suspects that have been shot in the head are cuffed.

There are cases in the US of suspects being shot up to 10-15 times and still running away from police as the bled out.

Goshen

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That's standard training for any armed police. Alot of times one shot won't kill a person outright and if they are armed can shoot back, or get up and escape. They are trained to aim and shoot at centre mass regardless, not like the movies with a leg or arm shot. Even armed suspects that have been shot in the head are cuffed.

There are cases in the US of suspects being shot up to 10-15 times and still running away from police as the bled out.

Maybe time to stop shooting. You know after the fifteenth round lol.

keithclancy

Reminds me of this:

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6650034/bc1cbc3c/agent_beukt_gewapende_man.html

Egginacup

dickwod1 wrote: »

Daily occurance now always in the states, terrible to see, check out "The advice show" on youtube.

FYP.

There's just more of it caught on camera now.

Drakares

NachoBusiness wrote: »

LOL.

You complain on one hand that the guy wouldn't take his hands out of his pants when instructed to and then in the next line of your post say the cop was justified in shooting him because he took his hands out of his pants.

You couldn't make it up.

Thought it would be self-explanatory but obviously not.

Raising your hands slowly = correct
Saying "Naw fool" then making an abrupt movement = incorrect.

Want me to make you an illustration in MS paint or is it clear?

Drakares

Bongalongherb wrote: »

You obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about, what a stupid post.

If this is a good reason to shoot a man dead then it is of the thinking of a madman. Very disturbing.

There are cases like this where the cop did not shoot and ended up getting shot himself. It is unfortunate that the moron died, but entirely his own fault for not cooperating with a police officer.

mikom

Time for my weekly "I'm glad I live in Ireland" post.

Free Hat

I read that it may have been a "suicide by police". Given how accurate the descriptions of the 3 guys were, the facebook posts of the victim and his behaviour once the cops arrived, perhaps there may be some validity to this theory.

steddyeddy

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That's standard training for any armed police. Alot of times one shot won't kill a person outright and if they are armed can shoot back, or get up and escape. They are trained to aim and shoot at centre mass regardless, not like the movies with a leg or arm shot. Even armed suspects that have been shot in the head are cuffed.

There are cases in the US of suspects being shot up to 10-15 times and still running away from police as the bled out.

Unfortunately the standard training of American police seems to be shoot without sufficient cause and make up a justification for it after the event.

For a developed country America seems to have an awful lot of incidents like these.

NachoBusiness

Drakares wrote: »

There are cases like this where the cop did not shoot and ended up getting shot himself. It is unfortunate that the moron died, but entirely his own fault for not cooperating with a police officer.

Of course cops get shot by people concealing weapons, I don't think anyone is under any illusion that that doesn't happen, but that doesn't mean you execute people that don't immediately comply when ordered to raise their hands. People do weird crap when all of a sudden someone is shouting at them holding a gun. They get confused, react with shock mixed with adrenaline.

These cops are well trained on approaching people they think might be armed and shooting people in the chest is not what they are supposed to do unless they actually see a weapon being pulled. Assuming it is is not enough. He is holding a gun pointing straight at an individual, with his finger on the trigger. This is not the Cincinnati Kid here with a possible gun in his pants and so there is time, even if very small, to be sure there is a gun before squeezing that trigger.

steddyeddy

Drakares wrote: »

There are cases like this where the cop did not shoot and ended up getting shot himself. It is unfortunate that the moron died, but entirely his own fault for not cooperating with a police officer.

Cases like this? I.e cases in which the suspect broke no law that we know of and was arrested, didn't comply fast enough and was shot.

You see the problem here is we have a culture of under educated cops targeting black individuals and treating them lie criminals by default. You seem to be painting a picture that it's not complying with the cops is the major problem here.

Free Hat

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Of course cops get shot by people concealing weapons, I don't think anyone is under any illusion that that doesn't happen, but that doesn't mean you execute people that don't immediately comply when ordered to raise their hands. People do weird crap when all of a sudden someone is shouting at them holding a gun. They get confused, react with shock mixed with adrenaline.

These cops are well trained on approaching people they think might be armed and shooting people in the chest is not what they are supposed to do unless they actually see a weapon being pulled. Assuming it is is not enough. He is holding a gun pointing straight at an individual, with his finger on the trigger. This is not the Cincinnati Kid here with a possible gun in his pants and so there is time, even if very small, to be sure there is a gun before squeezing that trigger.

Police officers are human, they are obviously terrified of being shot and killed. The adrenaline can make them do things they shouldn't also.

That's not excusing the reactionary nature of the police in America either. Better training and protocols might help avoid this type of incident.

steddyeddy

Free Hat wrote: »

Police officers are human, they are obviously terrified of being shot and killed. The adrenaline can make them do things they shouldn't also.

That's not excusing the reactionary nature of the police in America either. Better training and protocols might help avoid this type of incident.

If I walk over to black men and target them as criminal by default I'd be afraid of being shot too.

NachoBusiness

Free Hat wrote: »

Police officers are human, they are obviously terrified of being shot and killed. The adrenaline can make them do things they shouldn't also.

Well, then they are not fit to be cops if their adrenaline "makes them do things they shouldn't do".

Seriously. What does a white man have to do to be seen as victim these days.

The guy was shot in the fcuking chest for taking his hands out of his God damn pants when he was told to. Quit looking for excuses. Pretend he's black if you have to. Whatever it takes for you to see Dilion Taylor as 20 year old kid who should not have been shot to death.

Hagar7

Drakares wrote: »

There are cases like this where the cop did not shoot and ended up getting shot himself. It is unfortunate that the moron died, but entirely his own fault for not cooperating with a police officer.

Sorry but your post defies logic.:mad:

Free Hat

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Well, then they are not fit to be cops if their adrenaline "makes them do things they shouldn't do".

Seriously. What does a white man have to do to be seen as victim these days.

The guy was shot in the fcuking chest for taking his hands out of his God damn pants when he was told to. Quit looking for excuses. Pretend he's black if you have to. Whatever it takes for you to see Dilion Taylor as 20 year old kid who should not have been shot to death.

Good grief. That's a bit over the top don't you think?

I think there is more to this than meets the eye, that's all.

Dan_Solo

So if a cop gets shot dead we can start calling it "suicide by hood" now.

Dan_Solo

Free Hat wrote: »

Good grief. That's a bit over the top don't you think?

I think there is more to this than meets the eye, that's all.

Such as? Or will you keep adding imaginary facts until you reach a "justified" conclusion?

Little CuChulainn

This thread got pretty stupid real fast.

Free Hat

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Such as? Or will you keep adding imaginary facts until you reach a "justified" conclusion?

What imaginary facts have I added?

steddyeddy

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

This thread got pretty stupid real fast.

Keeping in the theme of American cops.

Dan_Solo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

This thread got pretty stupid real fast.

When did you join it?

steddyeddy

So let's sum up.

If the man took his hands out of his pockets slowly the cop would have thought he had a gun and shot him. If the man took his hands out of his pockets fast the cop would have thought he had a gun and shot him.

So the cop thought the man had a gun based on the fact he took his hands out of his pockets. Which is what he was asked to do.

Dan_Solo

Free Hat wrote: »

What imaginary facts have I added?

You haven't told us what they are. You're telling us they are there and justify this murder but you don't seem to be able to share them.
Precisely the point...

Little CuChulainn

Dan_Solo wrote: »

When did you join it?

Before your suicide by hood comment.

Little CuChulainn

steddyeddy wrote: »

So let's sum up.

If the man took his hands out of his pockets slowly the cop would have thought he had a gun and shot him. If the man took his hands out of his pockets fast the cop would have thought he had a gun and shot him.

So the cop thought the man had a gun based on the fact he took his hands out of his pockets. Which is what he was asked to do.

The cop thought he had a gun because he was going to a location where a guy matching the dead guys description had a gun and he walked off with his hands down his trousers when he saw the cops arrive. It's not exactly a big leap in logic.

steddyeddy

If I take my hands out of mt pockets in America will they think I'm armed?