Cop freed by judge,unbelievable.***Graphic Video in OP***

Theboinkmaster

K.Flyer wrote: »

Firstly this is a tragic event that could have been avoided and I think some people here really need to watch the video again a few times to carefully take in all that happens.
As Dillon Taylor, in the white t-shirt, and two others are walking out of the store three police cars pull into the parking area. Taylor is seen to lift the right side of his t-shirt.
One police car cuts across the camera car and goes to the left, the camera car goes centre and the third car is to the right of the camera and stops in front of the red car.
As the camera car is about to stop moving, the three guys have almost reached the rear of the red car and are fully aware of the police presence as they are clearly seen looking at the camera car and the other police car which is now in directly in front of them.
As the cop with the camera is getting out of the car Taylor is seen to have turned to walk away from the police, while the other two are standing still with their hands in the air obviously obeying a directive from the other police car and showing themselves to be no threat.
Why did Taylor not stand with them and put his hands up also???
Maybe if he did, he would still be alive today!
Taylor steps onto the pathway and glances to his right, most likely observing the other cop who is walking towards him with his gun drawn and aimed, clearly seen at 29 seconds in.
Why did he not stop walking then when he saw a cop walking towards him with a gun raised.??
He continues to walk away, and if you look carefully, his hands are down by his side.
The sound is on and the cop is yelling at him to stop, Taylor keeps walking but moves his hands and tucks them into his front. Why?
Taylor turns around, now walking backwards, hands still tucked into the front and replies "nah fool" to the cops request, obviously Taylor could hear otherwise why would he reply!
Taylor is now aware that there are two cops with guns drawn and aimed at him and, we can only presume he is somewhat streetwise, should now realise he is facing a lethal situation.
Everyone knows at this stage how you react at this point determines the reaction of the cops.
Instead of declaring himself as "unarmed" and offering to move his hands slowly from his front, after his "nah fool" jibe he pulls his right hand quickly from his front.
Perceiving the possibility of Taylor pulling a gun, the cop fires ONE round, unfortunately a fatal shot.
Taylor knew the cops were walking towards him, by turning and replying implies that he could hear them and their requests for him to stop.
He could have avoided his own death if he had of just stood by the red car with his hands up.
Remember that the cops were responding to a call about a concealed gun.

Maybe you need to watch the video more carefully because the cop fired TWO rounds.

ThinkProgress

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Maybe you need to watch the video more carefully because the cop fired TWO rounds.

And what about your reply to the rest of his excellent post?

Or was that the sum total of your contribution? :rolleyes:

end of the road

K.Flyer wrote: »

Again you obviously did not watch the video carefully or read my post.

2 COP CARS PULLED UP RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE THREE OF THEM ABOUT 3 - 4 FEET AWAY.
HE SAW THE CARS, HE SAW THE COPS.
HIS TWO MATES RAISE THEIR HANDS INDICATING NO THREAT.
AT THE SAME TIME DILLON TURNS ON HIS HEEL AND HEADS AWAY.
DILLON CAN BE SEEN GLANCING AT COP ON HIS RIGHT.
COP ON RIGHT HAS GUN DRAWN AND AIMED AT HIM.
DILLON EVENTUALLY TURNS TO FACE CAMERA COP AND REPLIES ( An obvious indication that he heard the cop yelling at him) "NAH FOOL" TO THE COPS REQUEST TO STOP BUT KEEPS STEPPING BACKWARDS.
NOW HE IS AWARE AND FACING TWO COPS WITH GUNS DRAWN AND AIMED.
HIS NEXT AND VERY SUDDEN MOVE CAUSED HIS OWN DEATH.

Now go watch the video carefully!

He could have avoided his own death but unfortunately and sadly he didn't.

i saw the video. he didn't see the cars, he didn't see the cops until it was to late. the cops shooting him because caused his death. he couldn't have avoided his death. he complied and still got shot.

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

They did their duty. Another low life piece of scum in a wooden box 6ft underground...

And nobody in their right mind is going to put huge effort into saving the life of a criminal.

They did the minimum expected according to law enforcement protocol - no cop would be reprimanded for this. They're only expected to call for medical assistance. The guy was practically dead anyway!

Stupid fool gave those cops no other option. Innocent people don't act the way he acted.

they didn't do their duty. they will put their full effort into saving a criminal if there are huge penalties for not doing so. the cops had lots of options and it was all their fault not his. there are no speciffic ways innocent and guilty people act.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

It's sick and embarrassing how quickly some people jump on the cops and defend the criminals. 99% of law enforcement are good people trying to do their job correctly... and at times a pretty thankless job too!

no its not. nobody is "defending" criminals as there were no criminals here aprrt from the cops, who got caught out. their act of murder is there for all to see. they signed up for a job. it being thankless is tough

agent graves

end of the road wrote: »

i saw the video. he didn't see the cars, he didn't see the cops until it was to late. the cops shooting him because caused his death. he couldn't have avoided his death. he complied and still got shot.

he clearly seen the cops.. he turned and said nah fool to the officer and then pulled his hand out of his pants,, he could have had a gun which caused the officer to shoot

end of the road

agent graves wrote: »

he clearly seen the cops.. he turned and said nah fool to the officer and then pulled his hand out of his pants,, he could have had a gun which caused the officer to shoot

he didn't see them until it was to late. all he saw was some lads with a gun. he was supposed to pull his hand out as it was what he was asked to do. the officer was shooting either way no matter what. there is no excuse or defence for this

namloc1980

ThinkProgress wrote: »

They did their duty. Another low life piece of scum in a wooden box 6ft underground...

And nobody in their right mind is going to put huge effort into saving the life of a criminal.

They did the minimum expected according to law enforcement protocol - no cop would be reprimanded for this. They're only expected to call for medical assistance. The guy was practically dead anyway!

Stupid fool gave those cops no other option. Innocent people don't act the way he acted.

It's sick and embarrassing how quickly some people jump on the cops and defend the criminals. 99% of law enforcement are good people trying to do their job correctly... and at times a pretty thankless job too! :mad:

I know this may come as a surprise to you but cops don't actually get to decide on the guilt of anyone and extra judicial killings is not part of their duty

agent graves

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't see them until it was to late. all he saw was some lads with a gun. he was supposed to pull his hand out as it was what he was asked to do. the officer was shooting either way no matter what. there is no excuse or defence for this

in full police uniform yelling at him?? that young fella clearly knew what he was doing and who they were..

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

i saw the video. he didn't see the cars, he didn't see the cops until it was to late. the cops shooting him because caused his death. he couldn't have avoided his death. he complied and still got shot.

He did see them. He had plenty of time to comply with their requests. Yes, he certainly could have avoided his death.

end of the road wrote: »

they didn't do their duty. they will put their full effort into saving a criminal if there are huge penalties for not doing so. the cops had lots of options and it was all their fault not his. there are no speciffic ways innocent and guilty people act.



no its not. nobody is "defending" criminals as there were no criminals here aprrt from the cops, who got caught out. their act of murder is there for all to see. they signed up for a job. it being thankless is tough

It was his fault, not the cops. They just did their duties. They didn't murder anyone.

This fool gave the cops no other option. He stupidly and fatally forced their hand.

They did try to save him. They called an ambulance! His wounds were too severe anyway... The cop knew how much damage those shots would have done.

They were likely shooting to kill anyway. Mission accomplished. Job well done!

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't see them until it was to late. all he saw was some lads with a gun. he was supposed to pull his hand out as it was what he was asked to do. the officer was shooting either way no matter what. there is no excuse or defence for this

He saw them very well, and in plenty of time. He knew damn well what was going on!

The officer only shot because he saw a credible threat from known criminal who also matched the description of a young man brandishing a firearm in that exact area!

namloc1980 wrote: »

I know this may come as a surprise to you but cops don't actually get to decide on the guilt of anyone and extra judicial killings is not part of their duty

They decide on credible threats. This man was clearly presenting a credible threat. He matched the description of the man reported on the 911 call who was brandishing a weapon.

He refused to stop like the other guys did and continued moving away... then his final act of stupidity was to make movements that looked like he was about to grab a gun! BOOM! Another stupid low life criminal in a box!

This sh*t ain't rocket science people. It's very clear cut. And so is your twisted hatred of law enforcement.

Really people, stop all this hatred of the cops. They're just like us. In fact they ARE us. But their job is to enforce laws and so many of you can't stand them and the power they possess!

But it's not healthy to be so bitter towards an essential service to society. We need good cops like these guys!

Egginacup

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He saw them very well, and in plenty of time. He knew damn well what was going on!

The officer only shot because he saw a credible threat from known criminal who also matched the description of a young man brandishing a firearm in that exact area!




They decide on credible threats. This man was clearly presenting a credible threat. He matched the description of the man reported on the 911 call who was brandishing a weapon.

He refused to stop like the other guys did and continued moving away... then his final act of stupidity was to make movements that looked like he was about to grab a gun! BOOM! Another stupid low life criminal in a box!

This sh*t ain't rocket science people. It's very clear cut. And so is your twisted hatred of law enforcement.

Really people, stop all this hatred of the cops. They're just like us. In fact they ARE us. But their job is to enforce laws and so many of your can't stand them and the power they possess!

But it's not healthy to be so bitter towards an essential service to society. We need good cops like these guys!

I hear ya.
People be bitching about the man like the man don't got worries.

A great-great uncle of mine was in Dusseldorf decades ago. This guy with a black uniform beat someone for not saluting at him. Smashed the man's face.
The guy who did the smashing was a good guy though. One of us, enforcing the law.

hatrickpatrick

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He saw them very well, and in plenty of time. He knew damn well what was going on!

The officer only shot because he saw a credible threat from known criminal who also matched the description of a young man brandishing a firearm in that exact area!




They decide on credible threats. This man was clearly presenting a credible threat. He matched the description of the man reported on the 911 call who was brandishing a weapon.

He refused to stop like the other guys did and continued moving away... then his final act of stupidity was to make movements that looked like he was about to grab a gun! BOOM! Another stupid low life criminal in a box!

This sh*t ain't rocket science people. It's very clear cut. And so is your twisted hatred of law enforcement.

Really people, stop all this hatred of the cops. They're just like us. In fact they ARE us. But their job is to enforce laws and so many of you can't stand them and the power they possess!

But it's not healthy to be so bitter towards an essential service to society. We need good cops like these guys!

Nobody should kill anyone unless there is an immediate threat to somebody else's life. Killing is utterly wrong in almost any situation. Almost.

In the US, killing people is regarded by the cops as one of their standard responses rather than an exceptional, rarely used last resort. That is not ok.

ThinkProgress

Egginacup wrote: »

I hear ya.
People be bitching about the man like the man don't got worries.

A great-great uncle of mine was in Dusseldorf decades ago. This guy with a black uniform beat someone for not saluting at him. Smashed the man's face.
The guy who did the smashing was a good guy though. One of us, enforcing the law.

Oh f*ck... no way man. Are you telling me there's bad cops in the world? :eek:

WOW - I totally wasn't aware of that.

Thanks for informing me. I thought all cops behaved themselves. You know like all members of our society in general. :P

You ever hear of perspective? If so, do you ever apply it? I find it comes in quite handy from time to time!

end of the road

agent graves wrote: »

in full police uniform yelling at him?? that young fella clearly knew what he was doing and who they were..

he didn't know what he was doing and didn't know who they were. they could have stolen police uniforms and being pretending.

ThinkProgress

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Nobody should kill anyone unless there is an immediate threat to somebody else's life. Killing is utterly wrong in almost any situation. Almost.

In the US, killing people is regarded by the cops as one of their standard responses rather than an exceptional, rarely used last resort. That is not ok.

I disagree. Most cops don't view killing someone as standard. Just necessary, because the situations they are presented with are anything from normal.

They face lunatics with loaded guns. Desperate people who will do almost anything to not go to jail.

There was an immediate threat in this situation. I already explained why. I believe killing IS a last resort in the US - it's just that there are so many examples of where that action is genuinely required.

Just look how many american citizens are locked in jails. Criminality and violence are rampant. The cops quite often are given no other option when faced with people who don't listen to reason!

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He did see them. He had plenty of time to comply with their requests. Yes, he certainly could have avoided his death.





It was his fault, not the cops. They just did their duties. They didn't murder anyone.

This fool gave the cops no other option. He stupidly and fatally forced their hand.

They did try to save him. They called an ambulance! His wounds were too severe anyway... The cop knew how much damage those shots would have done.

They were likely shooting to kill anyway. Mission accomplished. Job well done!

he didn't see them. he had little time to comply and when he did comply he got shot anyway. he could not have avoided his death. it was the cops fault not his. they didn't do their duty. they murdered him. this young man gave them plenty of options. he forced nobodies hand. they made no real effort to save him. Mission not accomplished.. job not well done. this is not iraq.

P_1

Egginacup wrote: »

I hear ya.
People be bitching about the man like the man don't got worries.

A great-great uncle of mine was in Dusseldorf decades ago. This guy with a black uniform beat someone for not saluting at him. Smashed the man's face.
The guy who did the smashing was a good guy though. One of us, enforcing the law.

Well you are taking a bit of a leap there comparing Dusseldorf in the Third Reich to America today but given the general theme of your opinions here that's perhaps not that much of a shock

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't know what he was doing and didn't know who they were. they could have stolen police uniforms and being pretending.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha........... wtf?

I had to read this twice. It was THAT surreal.

You're taking the pi$$ right? Please tell me you're not actually serious here?

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He saw them very well, and in plenty of time. He knew damn well what was going on!

The officer only shot because he saw a credible threat from known criminal who also matched the description of a young man brandishing a firearm in that exact area!




They decide on credible threats. This man was clearly presenting a credible threat. He matched the description of the man reported on the 911 call who was brandishing a weapon.

He refused to stop like the other guys did and continued moving away... then his final act of stupidity was to make movements that looked like he was about to grab a gun! BOOM! Another stupid low life criminal in a box!

This sh*t ain't rocket science people. It's very clear cut. And so is your twisted hatred of law enforcement.

Really people, stop all this hatred of the cops. They're just like us. In fact they ARE us. But their job is to enforce laws and so many of you can't stand them and the power they possess!

But it's not healthy to be so bitter towards an essential service to society. We need good cops like these guys!

he didn't see them, he had no time, and didn't know what was going on. the officer shot because he could and he could use whatever excuse and knew he would get off. he didn't match the description at all. there was no threat and the man at the time wasn't a criminal. he was presenting no threat. he didn't refuse to stop he wasn't asked to stop. there was no acts of stupidity on his part, he was asked to put his hands up and he was doing it when shot. there was nothing that looked like he was getting a gun. another young man murdered. its very clear cut he was murdered. there is no twisted hatred of law enforcement. spare me the victim nonsense

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't see them. he had little time to comply and when he did comply he got shot anyway. he could not have avoided his death. it was the cops fault not his. they didn't do their duty. they murdered him. this young man gave them plenty of options. he forced nobodies hand. they made no real effort to save him. Mission not accomplished.. job not well done. this is not iraq.

He clearly did see them.

He responded to them.

He looked at them.

Bye bye stupid low life kid.

P_1

The police in America need much better training considering the kit they carry these days would have been considered excessive on the fields of Paschendale.

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I disagree. Most cops don't view killing someone as standard. Just necessary, because the situations they are presented with are anything from normal.

They face lunatics with loaded guns. Desperate people who will do almost anything to not go to jail.

There was an immediate threat in this situation. I already explained why. I believe killing IS a last resort in the US - it's just that there are so many examples of where that action is genuinely required.

Just look how many american citizens are locked in jails. Criminality and violence are rampant. The cops quite often are given no other option when faced with people who don't listen to reason!

killing is very much the standard responce in america. there was no threat in this situation. killing is the first resort in america and rather few incidents where such action is genuinely required. the amount of american citizens locked in jails is due to the fact the government and state governments wish to keep the revolving door system open and the jails filled so private companies can make a proffit. the cops are given plenty of options when faced with people whether they listen to reason or not, and will in most cases shoot even if people do listen to reason like in this case.

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't see them, he had no time, and didn't know what was going on. the officer shot because he could and he could use whatever excuse and knew he would get off. he didn't match the description at all. there was no threat and the man at the time wasn't a criminal. he was presenting no threat. he didn't refuse to stop he wasn't asked to stop. there was no acts of stupidity on his part, he was asked to put his hands up and he was doing it when shot. there was nothing that looked like he was getting a gun. another young man murdered. its very clear cut he was murdered. there is no twisted hatred of law enforcement. spare me the victim nonsense

Plenty of cops have been removed from police forces in history, for unlawful shootings. And there have been high profile cases recently. So it's stupid to think that any officer would think they could get away with shooting someone dead who was innocent.

This was a clear case of cops doing their job well. Following procedures and killing a criminal who presented a genuine threat.

I think you're delusional and you have a deep mistrust for law enforcement (like many people). That's the only logical reason to explain how you're ignoring all the facts in this case!

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He clearly did see them.

He responded to them.

He looked at them.

Bye bye stupid low life kid.

he didn't see them. looking at someone isn't a reason for murder.

hatrickpatrick

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I disagree. Most cops don't view killing someone as standard. Just necessary, because the situations they are presented with are anything from normal.

They face lunatics with loaded guns. Desperate people who will do almost anything to not go to jail.

There was an immediate threat in this situation. I already explained why. I believe killing IS a last resort in the US - it's just that there are so many examples of where that action is genuinely required.

Just look how many american citizens are locked in jails. Criminality and violence are rampant. The cops quite often are given no other option when faced with people who don't listen to reason!

It's 100% not considered a last resort. As I said, it should only even be considered as a possible tactic if every other possible non-lethal option has been exhausted. That clearly isn't happening in the states when so many unarmed civilians are getting killed.

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Plenty of cops have been removed from police forces in history, for unlawful shootings. And there have been high profile cases recently. So it's stupid to think that any officer would think they could get away with shooting someone dead who was innocent.

This was a clear case of cops doing their job well. Following procedures and killing a criminal who presented a genuine threat.

I think you're delusional and you have a deep mistrust for law enforcement (like many people). That's the only logical reason to explain how you're ignoring all the facts in this case!

this was a case of cops doing their job badly. in america its very hard to be prosecuted if your a cop. procedures were not followed and an innocent man who presented no threat was shot. i'm ignoring no facts, i'm giving them

K.Flyer

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Maybe you need to watch the video more carefully because the cop fired TWO rounds.

I stand corrected on the two fired rounds, they were very close as I took the sound of the shot to be an echo, however I re-watched and saw the double re - coil.
As for the rest of my analysis of the events I completely stand over it.

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

killing is very much the standard responce in america. there was no threat in this situation. killing is the first resort in america and rather few incidents where such action is genuinely required. the amount of american citizens locked in jails is due to the fact the government and state governments wish to keep the revolving door system open and the jails filled so private companies can make a proffit. the cops are given plenty of options when faced with people whether they listen to reason or not, and will in most cases shoot even if people do listen to reason like in this case.

Nope not standard. Necessary and needed far too often, unfortunately - but not standard!

Law enforcement have strong internal investigations. Cops don't have the right to shoot anybody for just anything.

You are delusional to think otherwise. This man's actions were suicidal. Only someone who wanted to die, would act the way he did.

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Nope not standard. Necessary and needed far too often, unfortunately - but not standard!

Law enforcement have strong internal investigations. Cops don't have the right to shoot anybody for just anything.

You are delusional to think otherwise. This man's actions were suicidal. Only someone who wanted to die, would act the way he did.

yes standard. not necessary and not needed in most cases and standard. cops can shoot more or less whenever they like and its very hard for an officer to be prosecuted. this mans actions were what he was asked to do by the cops and even though he complied he was shot.

ThinkProgress

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's 100% not considered a last resort. As I said, it should only even be considered as a possible tactic if every other possible non-lethal option has been exhausted. That clearly isn't happening in the states when so many unarmed civilians are getting killed.

When you're faced with someone who is potentially concealing a weapon, that makes lethal force potentially necessary. Please explain what other options he should be considering in this scenario?

It's very simple really, if you're facing a cop who's pointing a loaded gun at you - you comply with him immediately. And you clearly show him that you are not a threat.

This young man did the COMPLETE opposite. Very foolish. The cop was fully justified firing his weapon - and a judge agrees!

end of the road wrote: »

this was a case of cops doing their job badly. in america its very hard to be prosecuted if your a cop. procedures were not followed and an innocent man who presented no threat was shot. i'm ignoring no facts, i'm giving them

They did their jobs perfectly. More scum in a box!

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't know what he was doing and didn't know who they were. they could have stolen police uniforms and being pretending.

^^LOL (I'm sorry just had to re-quote this - it's just too funny!) :pac:

When I think about replying to any other posts from you, I will just remind myself that THIS is what passes for logic in your head. ROFL :P

No more please... You win!

I bow to your superiority in reasoned and rational debate!

Arsemageddon

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Law enforcement have strong internal investigations. Cops don't have the right to shoot anybody for just anything.

There are nearly 18,000 different law enforcement agency in the US. There standards of training and self-regulation differ enormously.

This man's actions were suicidal. Only someone who wanted to die, would act the way he did.

The fella who was killed was a 21 years old who either didn't understand the gravity of the situation and act accordingly or at the very worst was a little dumb in the way he reacted.

There is simply no way that young fella deserved to be shot, solely blaming the victim for what happened is just plain wrong, legally and morally.

ThinkProgress

Arsemageddon wrote: »

There are nearly 18,000 different law enforcement agency in the US. There standards of training and self-regulation differ enormously.



The fella who was killed was a 21 years old who either didn't understand the gravity of the situation and act accordingly or at the very worst was a little dumb in the way he reacted.

There is simply no way that young fella deserved to be shot, solely blaming the victim for what happened is just plain wrong, legally and morally.

He did understand the gravity. This boy was a no angel. He was a criminal - quite a seasoned one as well from what I've read.

He was evading the cops. They had reason to think he had a gun. They had every reason to draw their guns on him. Their training and procedures gave them reason...

His actions AFTER they pointed the gun at him were suicidal. Were they also dumb? Possibly. But in the absence of a gun threat, his actions might have been interpreted differently.

But it's a mute point because we know these officers came to the scene from a 911 call reporting a man with a gun. That man matched his description.

So from the cops point of view, you can understand their aggression. They see a credible threat evading them and disobeying their orders. It doesn't matter if he's a 21 year old kid.

Plenty of 21 year old kids locked up in prisons for shooting people!

K.Flyer

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Nope not standard. Necessary and needed far too often, unfortunately - but not standard!

Law enforcement have strong internal investigations. Cops don't have the right to shoot anybody for just anything.

You are delusional to think otherwise. This man's actions were suicidal. Only someone who wanted to die, would act the way he did.

Google "Dillon Taylor Suicide by Cop" and "Suicide by Cop" for some interesting articles.

K.Flyer

If the cops were so hell bent on killing him, as some people would like to think, why didn't they just shoot him in the back?


Also worth taking a look at...
Dillon Taylor Shooting, Frame by Frame

Arsemageddon

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He did understand the gravity. This boy was a no angel. He was a criminal - quite a seasoned one as well from what I've read.

The legal penalty for theft is imprisonment not death. Cases of minor criminality are dealt with in a court of law.

Similarly the penalty for giving lip or being a bit of a dick should not be death.

He was evading the cops. They had reason to think he had a gun. They had
every reason to draw their guns on him. Their training and procedures gave them reason...

He didn't have a gun though did he? This would tend to indicate that their training and procedures are flawed and need to be reviewed.

His actions AFTER they pointed the gun at him were suicidal. Were they also dumb? Possibly. But in the absence of a gun threat, his actions might have been interpreted differently.

For the second time he didn't have a gun

But it's a mute point because we know these officers came to the scene from a 911 call reporting a man with a gun. That man matched his description

For the third time, he didn't have a gun.

So from the cops point of view, you can understand their aggression. They see a credible threat evading them and disobeying their orders. It doesn't matter if he's a 21 year old kid.

I understand the legal basis for the cop not being charged for killing the fella. However, his reading of the situation was so utterly flawed that he should never be allowed back on the streets as a cop.

He killed an unarmed man, there is no kind of fvck up worse that that.

Plenty of 21 year old kids locked up in prisons for shooting people!

For the fourth time, the lad didn't have a gun - I'm hoping that at some stage this rather crucial fact about the case will finally sink in.

ThinkProgress

K.Flyer wrote: »

If the cops were so hell bent on killing him, as some people would like to think, why didn't they just shoot him in the back?

Exactly. The officer on the right can clearly see him reaching into his pants... what possible reason could you have for doing that at that moment?

The officer on the right could have shot him then - but they waited.

He turns around. Verbally responds to them, then takes his hand out and lifts up his shirt - all while walking away and ignoring the cops shouting very loudly at him.

Suicide by cop. Very clear.

Some people are trying to make a martyr out of a sick and depressed young man. Probably just because they dislike cops and have seen unlawful killings in the past...

But this was not one of those incidents. There were no bad/rogue cops here. Just a depressed kid who wanted to die. And two cops doing their jobs!

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He did understand the gravity.

he didn't.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

This boy was a no angel. He was a criminal - quite a seasoned one as well from what I've read.

doesn't matter.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He was evading the cops.

no he wasn't. he complied with their instructions

ThinkProgress wrote: »

They had reason to think he had a gun.

they didn't. they decided later on they had.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

They had every reason to draw their guns on him. Their training and procedures gave them reason...

draw them yes

ThinkProgress wrote: »

His actions AFTER they pointed the gun at him were suicidal.

they weren't. he did what was asked and payed with his life.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Were they also dumb? Possibly. But in the absence of a gun threat, his actions might have been interpreted differently.

they wouldn't have been. there was no gun threat.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

But it's a mute point because we know these officers came to the scene from a 911 call reporting a man with a gun. That man matched his description.

that man didn't match the description

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So from the cops point of view, you can understand their aggression.

no . there was no point of view, just victim blaming and excuses.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

They see a credible threat evading them and disobeying their orders.

they don't. they say there was afterwords to get off. there was no threat and no orders were disobeyed. even if they were disobeyed thats no reason for murder.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

It's very simple really, if you're facing a cop who's pointing a loaded gun at you - you comply with him immediately. And you clearly show him that you are not a threat.

that was done in this case. and even if you don't comply there is no excuse for murder.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

This young man did the COMPLETE opposite. Very foolish.

he did what he was told.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

The cop was fully justified firing his weapon - and a judge agrees!

the cop wasn't justified and the judge was byassed in favour cops in general.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

They did their jobs perfectly. More scum in a box!

they did their jobs badly, another poor innocent man murdered.

ThinkProgress

Arsemageddon wrote: »

The legal penalty for theft is imprisonment not death. Cases of minor criminality are dealt with in a court of law.

Similarly the penalty for giving lip or being a bit of a dick should not be death.



He didn't have a gun though did he? This would tend to indicate that their training and procedures are flawed and need to be reviewed.



For the second time he didn't have a gun



For the third time, he didn't have a gun.



I understand the legal basis for the cop not being charged for killing the fella. However, his reading of the situation was so utterly flawed that he should never be allowed back on the streets as a cop.

He killed an unarmed man, there is no kind of fvck up worse that that.




For the fourth time, the lad didn't have a gun - I'm hoping that at some stage this rather crucial fact about the case will finally sink in.

- This wasn't about theft, it was about the threat of gun.

- It doesn't matter that he didn't have a gun. He acted like he had one. And the 911 call reported him having one. And then he disobeyed the cops. That's all that matters. (having a gun or acting like you have one - no difference - still considered a credible threat)

- Not having a gun after the fact, is not proof that the cops did their jobs wrong. This depressed suicidal young man, wanted those cops to think he had a gun. And he succeeded.

- It's comical that you think the absence of a gun makes everything else that happened irrelevant. Are you really that clueless? Or are you just being obtuse?

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Exactly. The officer on the right can clearly see him reaching into his pants... what possible reason could you have for doing that at that moment?

The officer on the right could have shot him then - but they waited.

He turns around. Verbally responds to them, then takes his hand out and lifts up his shirt - all while walking away and ignoring the cops shouting very loudly at him.

Suicide by cop. Very clear.

Some people are trying to make a martyr out of a sick and depressed young man. Probably just because they dislike cops and have seen unlawful killings in the past...

But this was not one of those incidents. There were no bad/rogue cops here. Just a depressed kid who wanted to die. And two cops doing their jobs!

just a trigger happy cop who badly did his job

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Arsemageddon wrote: »

- This wasn't about theft, it was about the threat of gun.

- It doesn't matter that he didn't have a gun. He acted like he had one. And the 911 call reported him having one. And then he disobeyed the cops. That's all that matters. (having a gun or acting like you have one - no difference - still considered a credible threat)

- Not having a gun after the fact, is not proof that the cops did their jobs wrong. This depressed suicidal young man, wanted those cops to think he had a gun. And he succeeded.

- It's comical that you think the absence of a gun makes everything else that happened irrelevant. Are you really that clueless? Or are you just being obtuse?

he didn't act like he had one. you either have one or you don't. he didn't disobey the cops. and even if he had done thats no reason for cold blooded murder. there is a court system to deal with that. not having a gun after the fact which was known, is proof the cops did their jobs badly. there is no evidence this man wanted the cops to think he had a gun or wanted to commit suicide.

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't.



doesn't matter.



no he wasn't. he complied with their instructions



they didn't. they decided later on they had.



draw them yes



they weren't. he did what was asked and payed with his life.



they wouldn't have been. there was no gun threat.



that man didn't match the description



no . there was no point of view, just victim blaming and excuses.



they don't. they say there was afterwords to get off. there was no threat and no orders were disobeyed. even if they were disobeyed thats no reason for murder.



that was done in this case. and even if you don't comply there is no excuse for murder.



he did what he was told.



the cop wasn't justified and the judge was byassed in favour cops in general.



they did their jobs badly, another poor innocent man murdered.

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't know what he was doing and didn't know who they were. they could have stolen police uniforms and being pretending.

^^LOL

I'm not engaging with your ridiculous posts anymore.

But I will continue to remind you of perhaps your finest moment!

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

ThinkProgress wrote: »

he didn't act like he had one. you either have one or you don't. he didn't disobey the cops. and even if he had done thats no reason for cold blooded murder. there is a court system to deal with that. not having a gun after the fact which was known, is proof the cops did their jobs badly. there is no evidence this man wanted the cops to think he had a gun or wanted to commit suicide.

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't know what he was doing and didn't know who they were. they could have stolen police uniforms and being pretending.

^^LOL

ThinkProgress

end of the road wrote: »

just a trigger happy cop who badly did his job

end of the road wrote: »

he didn't know what he was doing and didn't know who they were. they could have stolen police uniforms and being pretending.

.....:D

NachoBusiness

Thalia Poor Hyena wrote: »

A wanted armed robber was justifiably shot dead, no loss to American society ~ Good riddance to bad rubbish.

He wasn't an wanted "armed robber". He was wanted for breaking a probation order for an unarmed robbery (beer and tips were stolen from a 7-11) three years ago. He motioned he had a gun in his belt to frighten off a clerk and mouthed off to some others. He was 17. The cop had no idea who he was either.

Thalia Poor Hyena wrote: »

Nice shooting. A dirt bag is dead & gone, I fail to see what the problem is here.

Nice shooting? Ha.

Yeah, the cop was a real crack shot alright.

Takes some skill to shoot a man standing right in front of you.

Arsemageddon

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Suicide by cop. Very clear.

Suicide by cop usually requires an aggressive action by the victim who wants to die. There is nothing in the video to indicate this

Some people are trying to make a martyr out of a sick and depressed young man.

Just a depressed kid who wanted to die

You can tell the kids psychological state from a few seconds of footage on an unsteady, grainy youtube video.

Probably just because they dislike cops and have seen unlawful killings in the past.

Seeing a 21 year old kid die for no good reason does tend to get peoples backs up. But sure that's PC brigade pinko-liberal tree huggers for ya.

There were no bad/rogue cops here. . And two cops doing their jobs!

One of those coppers has just killed an unarmed man and you think he is competent at his job? Seriously?

Billy86

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm sure people have the stats of Death buy cop vs Death by none cop ? Even in white cop on black male it's highly more lightly you will be shot by another black male not a cop.

At a quick glance, there are 120,000 registered full time law enforcement officers in the USA (though a good portion are like in office, administration and advisory roles). Last year, police killed over 1,000 people - so maybe about one death for every 110-120 officers.

The USA has 320mn people, with approximately 150,000 cases of combined murder, non-negligent manslaughter and "accidental/unintentional injury". That amounts to less than one in 2,000 for the general public.

That's just thrown together really quick with a few google searches though, would honestly fascinated to see a full breakdown of this done with proper fact checking and such, and somehow allowing for probability due to police officers being in a lot of confrontation due to their profession.

I'm not anti police or anything, but what does sicken me is that there are a good number of scumbags in their ranks who get a LOT of protection to just keep doing what they are doing.

ThinkProgress

NachoBusiness wrote: »

He wasn't an wanted "armed robber". He was wanted for breaking a probation order for an unarmed robbery (beer and tips were stolen from a 7-11) three years ago. He motioned he had a gun in his belt to frighten off a clerk and mouthed off to some others. He was 17. The cop had no idea who he was either.



Nice shooting? Ha.

Yeah, the cop was a real crack shot alright.

Takes some skill to shoot a man standing right in front of you.

So a criminal who also breaks probation. Sounds like a real angel eh?

Doesn't matter if he didn't have a gun. Pretending to have a concealed weapon is a criminal offence. And you can be shot for doing so - which he clearly did.

Depressed young man. Suicidal by most accounts!

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Suicide by cop usually requires an aggressive action by the victim who wants to die. There is nothing in the video to indicate this





You can tell the kids psychological state from a few seconds of footage on an unsteady, grainy youtube video.



Seeing a 21 year old kid die for no good reason does tend to get peoples backs up. But sure that's PC brigade pinko-liberal tree huggers for ya.



One of those coppers has just killed an unarmed man and you think he is competent at his job? Seriously?

He pretended to have a gun. And refused to comply with officers. That's aggressive behavior.

It's also unlawful behavior.

I'm relying on a lot more than the video my friend. I've read all the articles on this case... have you?

I didn't comment on this thread until I took the time to fully inform myself of the facts surrounding this incident.

Maybe some others might benefit from doing the same. Don't just rely on some poor quality video.

end of the road

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So a criminal who also breaks probation. Sounds like a real angel eh?

Doesn't matter if he didn't have a gun. Pretending to have a concealed weapon is a criminal offence. And you can be shot for doing so - which he clearly did.

Depressed young man. Suicidal by most accounts!






He pretended to have a gun. And refused to comply with officers. That's aggressive behavior.

It's also unlawful behavior.

I'm relying on a lot more than the video my friend. I've read all the articles on this case... have you?

I didn't comment on this thread until I took the time to fully inform myself of the facts surrounding this incident.

Maybe some others might benefit from doing the same. Don't just rely on some poor quality video.

he didn't pretend to have a concealed weapon. he had no weapon. no evidence he was depressed or suicidal. he complied with the officers when he realized who they were which at first he didn't know or see them. not complying isn't aggressive behaviour. i've read the articles to. some are byassed, others do tell the truth like i've been doing.

tom_k

Billy86 wrote: »

At a quick glance, there are 120,000 registered full time law enforcement officers in the USA (though a good portion are like in office, administration and advisory roles). Last year, police killed over 1,000 people - so maybe about one death for every 110-120 officers.

If my understanding is correct the 120,000 figure represents only Federal police officers and excludes local PDs and sheriffs etc.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fleo08.pdf

The total number of state and local sworn personnel who have general powers of arrest is well over 765,000. These are 2008 figures so current numbers are possibly higher.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/csllea08.pdf