Copa América

Arghus

Great goal

Andersonisgod

Goal! Lionel Messi, the breaker of lines picks up the ball and plays the most perfect pass to slash through the Paraguay midfield, into the feet of Pastore whose low strike finds the net. 2-0, a final looms.

Arghus

Really elegant finish from Pastore. Made it look like stroking that ball into the net was the easiest thing in the world.

Arghus

We have a game.

Andersonisgod

A goal only a Tata Martino side could concede, not surprised at all.

wonski

Arghus wrote: »

We have a game.

Argentina asked for it.

Poor defence.

GreNoLi

Never put your house on the Argies.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

A goal only a Tata Martino side could concede, not surprised at all.

It's more down to the players who are playing in defence to be honest, they are always susceptible no matter who the coach would be.

GreNoLi

Arg need half time.

Arghus

Best half of the tournament so far. Paragauy looked dangerous from the off, but Argentina looked like they had the talent to ply them apart. The first Argie goal was a bit fortunate, the second had me thinking - game over man, game over. But yet Paraguay still kept haring up the field, getting between the lines like they had the freedom of the midfield, it was only last ditch stuff from Argentina and final ball poor decision making that cost them. I thought there's still a chance, if they get one back before half time, it's anyone's.... After the goal Paraguay were notably firing on all cylinders, whilst Argentina looked like they had football boots of concrete.

Ah football.

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

It's more down to the players who are playing in defence to be honest, they are always susceptible no matter who the coach would be.

Yes the defensive players aren't quite as comfortable on the ball as a lot of teams that are so insistent on playing out from the back (Barcelona, Spain, Germany, Bayern Munich, Juventus) but even so from a coaching point of view that goal is laughable. It's about finding solutions as a coach, your 2-0 ahead but your side have looked uncomfortable splitting from goalkicks with Otamendi receiving it more often than not within the width of the penalty box, so you find a solution. Instead they've performed their regular goalkick routine, they've predictably been pressed and the centre back has played a lofted ball into the centre of the pitch, look at how woefully out of shape they are when that ball is played and after Pastore loses the aerial battle, that should absolutely never happen especially when it comes directly from your go-to goalkick routine, it's a shambles.

A couple minutes later and Paraguay are on the up and have all the time and space in the world in front of the Argentina back four, the Argentina midfield has disappeared and the space between the lines is massive.

I don't care what anyone says, Martino is a spoofer, an absolute and definite liability as coach, even if Argentina go on to win this tournament, which they should, the best thing they can do afterwards is sack this guy.

Arghus

Andy Gray at half time talking about the quality of Pastore's finish, had me thinking of Dennis Haysbert's character in Jarhead, talking about the quality of his top-quality bowel movement -"Not too hard, not too soft."

Andy talking crap again.

GreNoLi

Obligatory 'he's a cod Bill'...R.I.P.

Turtwig

Martino is a GOOD coach. His defenders are the spoofers.

Shanotheslayer

Turtwig wrote: »

Martino is a GOOD coach. His defenders are the spoofers.

Oatamendi/Zaba/Masch would walk into most teams?

GreNoLi

He was 'South American Chef of the Year' in 2014, can't turn your nose up at that.

Andersonisgod

Turtwig wrote: »

Martino is a GOOD coach. His defenders are the spoofers.

He's a good coach with an underdog team, he can set up a team to absorb and counter, he's very direct, his ideals are very much based on his players playing vertical. Asked to set up a team to dominate a game and he struggles, I don't think that could be any clearer from his Barcelona reign and now his time at Argentina.

Andersonisgod

3-1, that was quick, it's Di Maria! Great stuff.

Arghus

Ah ffs Paraguay.

Shanotheslayer

First decent thing I've seen Di Maria do all tournament.

GreNoLi

There ya go, nite nite.

Corholio

Jesus Paraguay, way too many committed forward already. Done and dusted now.

Charlie19

Di Maria is some player:P

Andersonisgod

Goal Di Maria! 4-1 but it's Messi they hail, he skips away from 3, slides in Pastore, his shot is saved but it rebounds to Di Maria for a tap in.

GreNoLi

Di Maria's celebration is a far cry from the likes of Batigol.

Arghus

Suicide stuff from Paraguay.

Messi. Messi. Messi.

Andersonisgod

It's been Messi's passing, not his goalscoring that's been on display in this tournament, never more so than in this game, it's on another level to any other player.

JohnDaniels

The lay off from Messi to Pastore after that run was so unselfish. He could have gone at that last defender to score what would have been a sensational goal but as always he chooses the better option. He has been incredible tonight.

GreNoLi

Messi might be only 5 6 but when he gets the ball he grows in stature.

KungPao

Some great stuff from Argentina tonight. Looking forward to the final...Chile have been impressive in their own right. Should be a cracker.

Andersonisgod

5-1, no suspensions (thus far), it's exactly the result Chile would have dreaded.

KungPao

Jesus! 6

This makes Brazil look bad.

eagle eye

Wow, Argentina getting all the goals they are owed from this tournament in this game.

Andersonisgod

Seriously he hasn't scored tonight but Messi has been superb, that 1-2 on the edge of the box is terrific, Higuain curls it in.

Arghus

Feel for Paraguay here. The game looked like it was delicately poised at half-time. Instead the second half has turned out to be a lop-sided thrashing. No way I would have seen 4-1 as the final score, never mind 5 or 6, and it mightn't be over yet.

Shanotheslayer

Messi MOTM. Superb.

yohan the great

Messi was so ****ing good there. Pity he didn't get a goal

Shanotheslayer

Just saw on Twitter. This year Messi has played in every final(come Saturday) in all his competitive competition. That is insane.

Giggsy11

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Just saw on Twitter. This year Messi has played in every final(come Saturday) in all his competitive competition. That is insane.

In 2010, Sneijder, Robben played in all the finals.

inforfun

Giggsy11 wrote: »

In 2010, Sneijder, Robben played in all the finals.

European Supercup only Sneijder will have played.
CL final they played each other.

Anyway..... Argentina still havent entertained me.
I was asleep.
And havent seen the high lights yet.

When i saw the score i thought that was the end of my Vargas top scorer bet but Aguero had only 1 which was comforting.


Proper final for this tournament. Home team versus best player in the world.

Giggsy11

inforfun wrote: »

European Supercup only Sneijder will have played.
CL final they played each other.

This was the post:

Just saw on Twitter. This year Messi has played in every final(come Saturday) in all his competitive competition. That is insane.

So by July 2010, Sneijder played in Italian cup finals, CL finals, World cup finals. Same with Robben, German cup finals, CL finals, and world cup finals. (assuming both played in the cup finals)

inforfun

I might have picked that up wrong.

Thought they meant in 1 calender year or season.
But looks to be career.

TheCitizen

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Talk of Paraguay being a good side could only come from a bitter Dutchman!

A bitter Oranje man even:pac:.

6-1, he backed the wrong horse there.

I can cover my bet now on Argentina to win it out in the Final, but I think I'll let it run.

gosplan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Yes the defensive players aren't quite as comfortable on the ball as a lot of teams that are so insistent on playing out from the back (Barcelona, Spain, Germany, Bayern Munich, Juventus) but even so from a coaching point of view that goal is laughable. It's about finding solutions as a coach, your 2-0 ahead but your side have looked uncomfortable splitting from goalkicks with Otamendi receiving it more often than not within the width of the penalty box, so you find a solution. Instead they've performed their regular goalkick routine, they've predictably been pressed and the centre back has played a lofted ball into the centre of the pitch, look at how woefully out of shape they are when that ball is played and after Pastore loses the aerial battle, that should absolutely never happen especially when it comes directly from your go-to goalkick routine, it's a shambles.

A couple minutes later and Paraguay are on the up and have all the time and space in the world in front of the Argentina back four, the Argentina midfield has disappeared and the space between the lines is massive.

I don't care what anyone says, Martino is a spoofer, an absolute and definite liability as coach, even if Argentina go on to win this tournament, which they should, the best thing they can do afterwards is sack this guy.

Maybe, or maybe you should give coaches more time. Martino has had about 10 games as manager.

Andersonisgod

gosplan wrote: »

Maybe, or maybe you should give coaches more time. Martino has had about 10 games as manager.

How drastically is he going to change? His style is his style, I don't think there's much compromise with that.

We can only imagine how good this Argentina team would be with one of the more impressive Argentine coaches in this tournament at the helm.

gosplan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

How drastically is he going to change? His style is his style, I don't think there's much compromise with that.

We can only imagine how good this Argentina team would be with one of the more impressive Argentine coaches in this tournament at the helm.

Messi has a youth cup at international level and nothing else.

The first job of Argentina boss is to win matches and tournaments because they've had an amazing squad plus Messi for quite a while now but have never put it together.

Once they achieve that, people can concern themselves with how good they can be.

Andersonisgod

gosplan wrote: »

Messi has a youth cup at international level and nothing else.

The first job of Argentina boss is to win matches and tournaments because they've had an amazing squad plus Messi for quite a while now but have never put it together.

Once they achieve that, people can concern themselves with how good they can be.

Well they also have an Olympic gold medal.

I don't remember where I suggested that isn't the first goal, obviously their aim is to win. I am saying that they should be walking this tournament yet, until last night they had 4 goals in 4 games and scraped past a poor Colombia side on a penalty shootout. They were excellent last night but that goal they conceded was laughably bad. Being the best they can be can only maximize their chances of winning tournaments. They should win this Copa America, they'd be the overwhelming favourites no matter who the coach is but I have no hesitation saying that Argentina won't win the World Cup with Tata Martino as coach.

To suggest that Martino is some magician who is putting something together where other greats have failed is wide of the mark when you take into account the previous coaches have been Maradona (arguably the best player in the history of the World Cup, arguably the worst coach in the history of the World Cup), Batista and Sabella. Martino has the team with Messi at his absolute best, in his prime and with his overall game of most benefit to the team, he's got Aguero, Mascherano, Di Maria (to an extent), Pastore and Otamendi all bang in their prime.

This group's potential will never be maximized by Martino, his approach just doesn't fit.

CSF

If Argentina win Copa America, Martino deserves the praise that any manager deserves for winning a relatively major competition.

I'm not his biggest fan either, but with Brazil, Chile and Colombia all worthy of consideration at the start of this competition, it was never a foregone conclusion for anyone to win it. Argentina were justified favourites but that frequently counts for nothing.

gosplan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well they also have an Olympic gold medal.

I don't remember where I suggested that isn't the first goal, obviously their aim is to win. I am saying that they should be walking this tournament yet, until last night they had 4 goals in 4 games and scraped past a poor Colombia side on a penalty shootout. They were excellent last night but that goal they conceded was laughably bad. Being the best they can be can only maximize their chances of winning tournaments. They should win this Copa America, they'd be the overwhelming favourites no matter who the coach is but I have no hesitation saying that Argentina won't win the World Cup with Tata Martino as coach.

To suggest that Martino is some magician who is putting something together where other greats have failed is wide of the mark when you take into account the previous coaches have been Maradona (arguably the best player in the history of the World Cup, arguably the worst coach in the history of the World Cup), Batista and Sabella. Martino has the team with Messi at his absolute best, in his prime and with his overall game of most benefit to the team, he's got Aguero, Mascherano, Di Maria (to an extent), Pastore and Otamendi all bang in their prime.

This group's potential will never be maximized by Martino, his approach just doesn't fit.

Your whole line is about maximising potential, walking international tournaments etc.

I never said the manager was a magician, jut that if as you keep saying the team win 'in spite' of him, that they haven't done that 'in spite' of the other managers they had.

To be honest I think you decided early doors that you know everything about he manager based on his failure at Barca.

You clearly know a lot but it's possible things will surprise you, that a manager may have more success elsewhere. Of course can always say 'not good enough' or pick out the single mistake from a successful game to back up your point.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

If Argentina win Copa America, Martino deserves the praise that any manager deserves for winning a relatively major competition.

I'm not his biggest fan either, but with Brazil, Chile and Colombia all worthy of consideration at the start of this competition, it was never a foregone conclusion for anyone to win it. Argentina were justified favourites but that frequently counts for nothing.

Normally I'd say yes but on this occasion no. Short of creating a riot within the camp I don't think he could do enough to stop this Argentina squad from winning the tournament.

Brazil with, arguably their weakest squad to ever enter a major competition (especially after Neymar's suspension), Colombia were really poor throughout and Chile are the first real test they face (I'm not counting the Colombia game, that was a problem of their own making)

This is a ridiculously talented squad with the greatest player ever in his prime, so yes they should walk this tournament.