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Sligo Chamber of Commerce pushing out competition from Sligo?
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06-06-2015 12:53am#1So I came across the following post on Sligo COC facebook page.To whom it may concern. The only reason I liked this page is to share my disgust at you! Homestore and More is one of my favourite shops and what is happening there is disgracefull. You are ruining this town and all the good shops in it just for your own gain. This is the feeling of many people in this town. You do not represent me and as far as I can see there is no good reason for any of your arguments or objections. This town is supposed to be a gateway town but will soon be a ghost town soon. SHAME.
Apparently (from what I can gather from the comments), the COC have pushed through some rule where now Homestore + More can no longer sell any kitchenware, candles or soft furnishings, and can only sell seasonal items.
If this is correct I can't see them staying around Sligo too long, another business pushed out because of the Chamber in Sligo?2
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Here we go again!0
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Read that last night. It's disgraceful. Why let them in in the first place? Their kitchenware selection is the best in sligo . No where in town sells half of the same selection.
And sure homebase sell small kitchen items too?0 -
Does anyone know what actual powers they have to dictate who can sell what? Why don't Homestore just tell them to take a jump?
If they have any power to do this, it is anti-competitive, and even undemocratic. I don't remember having a chance to vote for any of these clowns. Surely we have a free market?0 -
garbarrage wrote: »Does anyone know what actual powers they have to dictate who can sell what? Why don't Homestore just tell them to take a jump?
If they have any power to do this, it is anti-competitive, and even undemocratic. I don't remember having a chance to vote for any of these clowns. Surely we have a free market?
I assume they could object if the planning attached to the centre is being contravened. Depressing if its true.
Here is the membership directory Of the CoC if you want to do a bit of boycotting.
http://www.sligochamber.ie/membership/members-directory/0 -
This could be the most ridiculous thing the Sligo CoC has done yet..0
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Just had a look through their planning conditions. Household goods is referred to several times throughout.redarmyblues wrote: »I assume they could object if the planning attached to the centre is being contravened. Depressing if its true.
Here is the membership directory Of the CoC if you want to do a bit of boycotting.
http://www.sligochamber.ie/membership/members-directory/
It really does look like the "interpretation" was influenced by a cash persuader. How are they getting away with this? Do I need to ask?0 -
I think that they probably took a case against them regarding what could be sold in line with planing as opposed to enforcing the planning laws. They don't have that power. Still, nice to see that they money they make from membership is not to promote growth of business in Sligo.
Their facebook page even lists them as a non-profit organization....0 -
This just posted on their Facebook page, along with the removal of the entire review section:
"Sligo Chamber of Commerce has noted an online conversation which began in the last few days following the re-posting of a news article that was first published in May 2013 - more than two years ago.
The Chamber would like to point out that the posts on various social media accounts, including our own, in no way reflects the current reality.
An anonymous post was made on Thursday in response to the article from May 31, 2013 which perhaps has given some people the mistaken impression that this was a news story or development from this week.
We would like to underline that Sligo Chamber is open and willing to engage with anyone on any relevant subject. We believe, in this case, that a social media forum is not the appropriate channel to do that.
We would encourage anyone who has concerns to contact the Chamber. Our doors are open. We believe that openness and discussion is helpful to Sligo and we are happy to facilitate that.
Paul Keyes CEO Sligo Chamber"
It seems it was a false alarm... Although the irony of them inviting "private" discussion tp facilitate "openness" is not lost on me.0 -
garbarrage wrote: »This just posted on their Facebook page, along with the removal of the entire review section:
"Sligo Chamber of Commerce has noted an online conversation which began in the last few days following the re-posting of a news article that was first published in May 2013 - more than two years ago.
The Chamber would like to point out that the posts on various social media accounts, including our own, in no way reflects the current reality.
An anonymous post was made on Thursday in response to the article from May 31, 2013 which perhaps has given some people the mistaken impression that this was a news story or development from this week.
We would like to underline that Sligo Chamber is open and willing to engage with anyone on any relevant subject. We believe, in this case, that a social media forum is not the appropriate channel to do that.
We would encourage anyone who has concerns to contact the Chamber. Our doors are open. We believe that openness and discussion is helpful to Sligo and we are happy to facilitate that.
Paul Keyes CEO Sligo Chamber"
It seems it was a false alarm... Although the irony of them inviting "private" discussion tp facilitate "openness" is not lost on me.
I actually searched this and found the article from 2013, which is why I posted this thread, as I thought there had been further developments and I couldn't find any further news. It wouldn't be unusual for the chamber to push again if their members felt their businesses were at risk from competition.
Of course, they wouldn't dare have a discussion in public as they know they would be coming from a least favourable position.
I wonder what dragged it up again though, seems whoever posted the original comment never bothered to check the date on the article?0 -
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In other news, Homestore are selling off their entire Kitchen Bay - with everything half-price!0
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Seems to be some talk that this is only coming to a head now... Either way, the CoC needs to be tackled. They've strangled the town long enough...0
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garbarrage wrote: »Seems to be some talk that this is only coming to a head now... Either way, the CoC needs to be tackled. They've strangled the town long enough...
Planning conditions are there for a reason. Out of towm stores pay massively reduced commercial rates because they are meant to sell bulky goods that need a lot of space to display. If a store then uses this space for non bulky good then they are at an advantage and the council gets less rates and other stores suffer.
It went all the way to the high court late last year and my guess is a 6month enforcement period was given.
http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a3f34669680256ef3004a27de/b4e06c0a0d15260080257d95004faade?OpenDocument
and it wasn't a CoC issue - it was the council planners, an bord pleanala and the high court - ALL said homestore were in contavention of planning guidelines.
They gambled, they lost.0 -
Planning conditions are there for a reason. Out of towm stores pay massively reduced commercial rates because they are meant to sell bulky goods that need a lot of space to display. If a store then uses this space for non bulky good then they are at an advantage and the council gets less rates and other stores suffer.
It went all the way to the high court late last year and my guess is a 6month enforcement period was given.
http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a3f34669680256ef3004a27de/b4e06c0a0d15260080257d95004faade?OpenDocument
and it wasn't a CoC issue - it was the council planners, an bord pleanala and the high court - ALL said homestore were in contavention of planning guidelines.
They gambled, they lost.
Judging by the amount of empty retail units in both 'retail parks' and the amount of empty space in both shopping centres and the town centre in general I'd say the Council, Chamber and an Board Pleanala's idea of the right plan to promote commercial growth in Sligo town is going very well indeed overall.
What the hell, it's only 20-30 jobs that cannot & will not be replaced by similar business in the town centre we're talking about.0 -
..and the high court????Judging by the amount of empty retail units in both 'retail parks' and the amount of empty space in both shopping centres and the town centre in general I'd say the Council, Chamber and an Board Pleanala's idea of the right plan to promote commercial growth in Sligo town is going very well indeed overall.
What the hell, it's only 20-30 jobs that cannot & will not be replaced by similar business in the town centre we're talking about.
They are only clearing a couple of ranges - there are not 20-30 peple working in the kitchen dept ffs!
I'm not from sligo, but I was there last spetember. The town centre was buzzing. A few years ago I was in coventry for about 6 weeks - out of town retail parks have destroyed what used to be a great city (I was there about 20 years ago and it was a thriving market town).
They have been working on improvements over the past 3 years with no extra out of town developments allowed and its starting to get better - but it will never be back to its glory days.
Maybe take a trip to coventry and see what can happen to a town when retail parks allow every type of store to trade!
If that was allowed in sligo, the town centre would die altgether.0 -
The people at Homestore and More must be scratching their heads in amazement and asking themselves "What the feck is wrong with Sligo?" They have 14 stores around the Country and I bet not one has had this bother. By all accounts the Sligo store was its 10th opening back in 2013. Could the commerce not just log onto their website at the time and see what type of outlet they were and object then?
Instead, we have an Irish Retailer [support our own etc...] who has traded, very successfully I would imagine, for almost 2 years and now the goal posts have been moved restricting them to what they can and can't sell. It is an absolute bloody joke! You would not blame them if they pulled out of Sligo altogether, am sure it would be less hassle for them and sadly, I think eventually this is what will happen.
The "clique" in the Chamber will never object to any retailer who is not a threat to their own business, which is why the likes of Carpetright, PC World, Pet Stop, Furniture stores etc.. are allowed to trade and stay on the park without objection. After all, you cannot go into town and easy pick up a carpet, lap top, bag of coal or a set of bunk beds, so you are so safe on that site.
The impact though, should and if, Homestore do leave the Park will have wider repercussions.
Job losses would be the obvious first and that is sad when the retail economy is supposed to be on the up turn and peoples livelihoods are dependant on it.
As local Sligo shoppers, we have gotten used to this shop and even just talking to friends, family and neighbours, whether its your cup of tea or not, we do love that store and use it on a regular basis.
Because the closest other Homestore is Galway, Sligo has been picking up customers from parts of Donegal, Leitrim, Mayo, Roscommon and it has drawn folk to the place and I am damn sure that if they came up on a long drive, for a day out, they would have gone into town too and spent money on non carpet, lap top, coal items related items! Maybe they had lunch in one of our fine eateries and vowed to come back.
Whether it is the Commerce, the Council or whoever "the powers that be" are in charge of planning are to blame, for this latest stint in trying/forcing out of Sligo, a well liked and decent shop, that attracts masses, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves but they probably care not a ****e and will be the demise of us regular citizens.
They are so disillusioned if they think that closing the retail park will bring business to the town, as it will not. They seem hell bent on hoping to say "Will the last shop on the Park, turn the light off!!". Then they might be happy, at our expense.0 -
..and the high court????
They are only clearing a couple of ranges - there are not 20-30 peple working in the kitchen dept ffs!
I'm not from sligo, but I was there last spetember. The town centre was buzzing. A few years ago I was in coventry for about 6 weeks - out of town retail parks have destroyed what used to be a great city (I was there about 20 years ago and it was a thriving market town).
They have been working on improvements over the past 3 years with no extra out of town developments allowed and its starting to get better - but it will never be back to its glory days.
Maybe take a trip to coventry and see what can happen to a town when retail parks allow every type of store to trade!
If that was allowed in sligo, the town centre would die altgether.
I would be surprised to see Homestore stay open in Sligo when they cannot sell about 50% of their range, a range by the way that would probably account for the lions share of their sales.
Also, as I pointed out, the abundance of empty units in the town centre surely proves that the current plan isn't working, there's been arguments in this forum for and against out of town retail units already, there's been good points raised by both sides I would say, but the chamber is a 'non profit organisation' that purely lobby on behalf of their members, who have vested interests, not on the people of the town as a whole.0 -
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Instead, we have an Irish Retailer [support our own etc...] who has traded, very successfully I would imagine, for almost 2 years and now the goal posts have been moved restricting them to what they can and can't sell.
the likes of Carpetright, PC World, Pet Stop, Furniture stores etc.. are allowed to trade and stay on the park without objection.
sorry, but have you checked anything at all?
All the other stores are trading as per planning consent of "bulky goods" THAT'S waht retail parks are htere for. They cannot have goods that are not considered bulky as their primary sales items - that destroys town centres and destroys other businesses and destroys jobs - FACT.
NOTHING has changed. The planning is EXACTLY as it was originally granted. They tried to pull a fast one, it was challenged. They lost.
Maybe you want all the smaller businesses in sligo to close, Maybe you want the town centre to die and be full of discount stores & shuttered shopfronts?
Last september I dropped into Cordners shoes - I remember being brought tehre as a child when I was on holidays in the ryan hotel. Imagine if shoe city from the UK came over and opened up and forced an institution like cordners to close - would you still be cheering for out of town retailers to stick 2 fingers to planning laws?0 -
or they could open where planning allows for the sale of the goods they sell - all otehr retailers (big and small) adhere to planning conditions, why can't homestore?I would be surprised to see Homestore stay open in Sligo when they cannot sell about 50% of their range, a range by the way that would probably account for the lions share of their sales.
Maybe people here don't think planning conditions should be adhered to? -0 -
sorry, but have you checked anything at all?
NOTHING has changed. The planning is EXACTLY as it was originally granted. They tried to pull a fast one, it was challenged. They lost.
Maybe you want all the smaller businesses in sligo to close, Maybe you want the town centre to die and be full of discount stores & shuttered shopfronts?
Last september I dropped into Cordners shoes - I remember being brought tehre as a child when I was on holidays in the ryan hotel. Imagine if shoe city from the UK came over and opened up and forced an institution like cordners to close - would you still be cheering for out of town retailers to stick 2 fingers to planning laws?
First of all, we are not in Coventry and we do not have the kind of population that Coventry has. I am voicing my opinion as a Sligo shopper and the choice and availability for certain items that have, until now, been restrictive. I do not want local stores to close but personally feel that they can run side by side and all be supported, town and outside town. The Retail Park has a few units, it will not get any bigger but the least we can do is support the people that came in and made an effort! Many come from outside Counties and that has tobe respected.0 -
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or they could open where planning allows for the sale of the goods they sell - all otehr retailers (big and small) adhere to planning conditions, why can't homestore?
Maybe people here don't think planning conditions should be adhered to? -
Or maybe the Chamber could lobby for the reduction in council rates so businesses could be viable in the town centre, maybe they could lobby for abolishment of parking charges on Sundays and bank holidays to encourage people to come into town, maybe they could lobby for their members to open for decent hours on Sunday's and bank holidays to encourage people to make the trip.
I never promoted the idea that these retailers should flout the current planning law, but I still maintain that the current set up is not working, as clearly shown both in the town centre and the retail parks, both are not utilised anywhere close to where they should be, and that's because the coco, chamber, and everyone else refuse to come up with any sort of action plan to improve the status quo.
I mean come on, you can't drive around this town with any level of comfort, do you expect out of towners to know their way around? The parking is a shambles, the charges ridiculous, if you want these retailers in the town centre, then move them to the town centre, but what's the point when it's impossible to get any sort of parking that's acceptable to out of town visitors.
By the way, I am quite alright with walking into town from the outskirts, I've said that before, but some people are not in that position, either they are infirm or have small children, and the bus service that should provide an alternative to in town parking is non existent.
So, does the chamber have a plan for that? Of course they don't, it's not in the interest of their current members it seems.0 -
No one seems to want to look at the bigger picture. If hsm were allowed to circumvent planning then EVERY retail park unit would be open for any trade - then the town centre may as well close.
It happened in tons of towns in the UK and they only said "stop" when it was too late.0 -
No one seems to want to look at the bigger picture. If hsm were allowed to circumvent planning then EVERY retail park unit would be open for any trade - then the town centre may as well close.
It happened in tons of towns in the UK and they only said "stop" when it was too late.
Yeah, you've said that already, but how come the chamber and coco don't focus on that problem then?0 -
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maybe they could lobby for abolishment of parking charges on Sundays and bank holidays
They're carrying out a study to see if that would be "feasible" but of course they're just going to increase rates during the week. Absolutely crazy!
http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=36089
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't homebase sell all the items that they're saying homestore and more can't sell? I've definitely seen candles, soft furnishings and cookware being sold in homebase.0 -
Planning conditions are indeed there for a reason. That reason, is so that a few business owners can push out any competition and remove all choice from the consumers in the process. Find some red tape to strong arm the competition with.Planning conditions are there for a reason. Out of towm stores pay massively reduced commercial rates because they are meant to sell bulky goods that need a lot of space to display. If a store then uses this space for non bulky good then they are at an advantage and the council gets less rates and other stores suffer.
It went all the way to the high court late last year and my guess is a 6month enforcement period was given.
http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a3f34669680256ef3004a27de/b4e06c0a0d15260080257d95004faade?OpenDocument
and it wasn't a CoC issue - it was the council planners, an bord pleanala and the high court - ALL said homestore were in contavention of planning guidelines.
They gambled, they lost.
Massively reduced rates? MASSIVELY? Get real. If you cannot compete because of their out of town rates, then you are doing something terribly wrong. This is Sligo, not New York or even Dublin. Your rates are hardly going to break the bank.
Every single shop in that retail park sells a sizeable percentage of "non-bulky" goods. But Sligo will be a much poorer place in their absence. It's already a horrible place to go shopping. Completely devoid of choice. You keep this up, and there will be no town left.
Paint it any way that you want, but this is a step too far. The CoC is crippling the prosperity of this town. It's high time people put an end to you. 300 (lol) business owners fancy their chances taking on the whole town.... sounds like a great idea. Interesting to see how far it gets you.
I for one won't be buying anything from any business that's owned by a CoC member. Will be interesting to see how many follow suit.0 -
or they could open where planning allows for the sale of the goods they sell - all otehr retailers (big and small) adhere to planning conditions, why can't homestore?
Maybe people here don't think planning conditions should be adhered to? -
So PCWorld only sell bulky goods? Homebase only sell bulky goods? Smyths? Rubbish argument...
As for shops like Cordner's not being able to compete. Sure, it's a much better idea that Sligo shoppers should just have to make a choice between dealing with their poor selection or travelling to Galway or Dublin for their shoes. I would welcome a good shoe retailer to Sligo.0 -
Firstly, I have no interests in sligo whatsoever - I do stay there and like going to rosses point for golf, but aside from holiday break, I have no reason to be in sligo - I came ion this thread via another thread which had misinformation. But I do work in retail - and within a "retail park" setting and there are very strngent NATIONAL planning conditions for specific retail parks and HSM would know precisely what they are.garbarrage wrote: »Planning conditions are indeed there for a reason. That reason, is so that a few business owners can push out any competition and remove all choice from the consumers in the process. Find some red tape to strong arm the competition with.
Massively reduced rates? MASSIVELY? Get real. If you cannot compete because of their out of town rates, then you are doing something terribly wrong. This is Sligo, not New York or even Dublin. Your rates are hardly going to break the bank.
Every single shop in that retail park sells a sizeable percentage of "non-bulky" goods. But Sligo will be a much poorer place in their absence. It's already a horrible place to go shopping. Completely devoid of choice. You keep this up, and there will be no town left.
Paint it any way that you want, but this is a step too far. The CoC is crippling the prosperity of this town. It's high time people put an end to you. 300 (lol) business owners fancy their chances taking on the whole town.... sounds like a great idea. Interesting to see how far it gets you.
I for one won't be buying anything from any business that's owned by a CoC member. Will be interesting to see how many follow suit.
wooo - "you won't be buying from a chamber member" - I'm sniggering at the juvinility/stupidity of your post.
Your other comment just confirm you have absolutely no idea what you are blabbering about.
Rates - put t this way. After rent, it is the HIGHEST fixed cost of a business.
From valuation office website - Moffitts in the town pay about €50,000 in rates.
Halfords store in the retail park pays about €25,000. My guess is halford is bigger than Moffitts!garbarrage wrote: »So PCWorld only sell bulky goods? Homebase only sell bulky goods? Smyths? Rubbish argument...
As for shops like Cordner's not being able to compete. Sure, it's a much better idea that Sligo shoppers should just have to make a choice between dealing with their poor selection or travelling to Galway or Dublin for their shoes. I would welcome a good shoe retailer to Sligo.
Retail Park guidelines are very clear and give detailed descriptions of goods that can be sold - maybe read the high court judgement before making rubbish comments - maybe you will learn something.
At the end of the day retail guidelines are there to protect town centres, to protect YOUR town centre, to protect own centre jobs and to stop town centre becoming ghost towns.
Maybe sligo people woudl prefer their town centre to become desolate and have nothing to attract people - as an occasioanl visitor I enjoy walking about the town centre - if it were to fail further, there would be no attraction to it.
Maybe you don't want tourists or the jobs that are attached - just so that you can buy a spoon in a big box retailer.
I really didn't think sligo peope were that niaeve - but maybe a small number of them are as is born out be this thread.
Very sad.0 -
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I really didn't think sligo peope were that niaeve - but maybe a small number of them are as is born out be this thread.
Very sad.
I think you've missed the point completely of what is being discussed in this thread. We are not naive about our town centre and the damage that is being done to it.
I think that most Sligo people would welcome the opportunity to shop in town more frequently but having to pay outrageous prices to park in wine street car park or other car parks in town is what is driving people out.At the end of the day retail guidelines are there to protect town centres, to protect YOUR town centre, to protect own centre jobs and to stop town centre becoming ghost towns.
The fact is that Sligo is already a ghost town, there are huge amounts of vacant retail units everywhere in the town, the retail parks the shopping centre, too many units were built during the boom and the rates are such that it is not feasible for smaller businesses to start up.
If you read the shops that are recently closing in Sligo thread, you will see that the majority are clothes shops. I sincerely doubt that a clothes shop would take a unit in the retail park as its just too big, I don't think that will ever be a factor. In fact the shops that are opening in town (Dealz and Tiger) are probably more likely to be competitiors to someone like homestore and more.
Sligo is a tourist town but the fact is that tourists want to see nice local shops in town centres rather than multinational retailers crammed into small spaces.
If the retail parks were filled with shops paying rates it would benefit the town as a whole. No one is talking about outsourcing all the shops in the town to the retail park and the town becoming dead. I think what is more important is that people who need cars to do say their grocery shopping don't have to take up city centre parking spaces.
wooo - "you won't be buying from a chamber member" - I'm sniggering at the juvinility/stupidity of your post.
Your other comment just confirm you have absolutely no idea what you are blabbering about.
You said that you aren't from Sligo and therefore I don't imagine that your aware that this is the latest in a long line of terrible decisions by the Coco influenced by the chamber of commerce who have a vested interest to keep rates high in Sligo town and make sure that there is no competition. They kept argos among others out for years.From valuation office website - Moffitts in the town pay about €50,000 in rates.
Halfords store in the retail park pays about €25,000. My guess is halford is bigger than Moffitts!
Your guess is probably wrong, Moffits is 3 stories, 1 of which is used for residential purposes. It at least has the same square footage as Halfords if not larger0
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