Sligo Chamber of Commerce pushing out competition from Sligo?

rizzodun

Another problem is that the chamber, coco, an board planeala etc want shops like homestore and more in the town centre but cannot provide retail units large enough to accommodate them. Thank fcuk the bust happened when it did, otherwise we'd have another shopping centre built with units of no use to the shops they want in the centre of town, lying practically empty like the other two. Sligo, the town of endless white elephants.

I'm all for town centre shopping, but as I've said before, this town is not set up, and will never be set up for it. Hell, we even reduced the chance for growth even further by building a bloody great big 'bypass' right in the middle of the town.

I've been born and raised in county Sligo, and love the county I live in, but Sligo town itself is a bloody disgrace to look at, and an embarrassment to be connected to. Thankfully we have a great county that people are working very hard to develop as a top tourist destination, almost in spite of the chamber.

rizzodun

rizzodun wrote: »

Another problem is that the chamber, coco, an board planeala etc want shops like homestore and more in the town centre but cannot provide retail units large enough to accommodate them. Thank fcuk the bust happened when it did, otherwise we'd have another shopping centre built with units of no use to the shops they want in the centre of town, lying practically empty like the other two. Sligo, the town of endless white elephants.

I agree completely. If you just look at where Aldi was crammed into.

It makes no sense to have 3 out of 4 supermarkets within spitting distance of each other or having to pay for parking at the other supermarket which is also very close to the other 3. People having trying to get through town to get to supermarkets must contribute a lot to congestion.

The majority of vacant retail units in Sligo town are suitable for large multinational clothes shops but too small for a retailer like homestore and more and too big for a local business

rizzodun wrote: »

I've been born and raised in county Sligo, and love the county I live in, but Sligo town itself is a bloody disgrace to look at, and an embarrassment to be connected to. Thankfully we have a great county that people are working very hard to develop as a top tourist destination, almost in spite of the chamber.

I really never understand how people not from Sligo are supposed to figure out where to park or how to get around with the crazy one way system. The town looked great for the Fleadh and I'm sure will again but when the Fleadh was over seeing all the empty units again was depressing.

rizzodun

Deleted User wrote: »

The town looked great for the Fleadh and I'm sure will again but when the Fleadh was over seeing all the empty units again was depressing.

I respectfully disagree, the amount of 'pop up shops' selling cheap plastic crap were an eyesore, and really dragged down the image of a town already damaged by the amount of empty retail units to visitors. Hopefully they'll be banned completely this time round.

rizzodun

rizzodun wrote: »

I respectfully disagree, the amount of 'pop up shops' selling cheap plastic crap were an eyesore, and really dragged down the image of a town already damaged by the amount of empty retail units to visitors. Hopefully they'll be banned completely this time round.

I thought that they were ok. True they were selling crap but that happens at every Fleadh and at least there weren't too many vendors on the street.

Lets just agree that not permanently occupied units on a main street in a town is never attractive to tourists

rizzodun

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lets just agree that not permanently occupied units on a main street in a town is never attractive to tourists

Oh I agree, 100%, but the chamber have a plan to fix that.... err.... don't they?

L.Jenkins

You'd think that the Chamber of Commerce wouldn't aim to shoot themselves in the foot by hassling Home Store and More. That's a loss of jobs and money that was being pumped into the local economy. Anyway, was it not the point of Home Store and More to sell what stock they currently have plus some.

For Forks Sake

Have at it....

Sligo Chamber Of Commerce
Public Meeting, Wednesday, June 24, 2015

Sligo Chamber of Commerce is issuing an open invitation to an important public meeting, where all interested parties will be invited to debate the many issues around the development of Sligo town, as well as the the day-today activities and aims of the Chamber.

The Chamber welcomes the chance to engage and come together with all interested parties in contributing to a constructive and frank conversation about Sligo’s future.
We intend to facilitate this open public discussion called ‘Moving Sligo Forward’ at 7pm on Wednesday, June 24 at the Sligo Park Hotel.

We stress that everyone is welcome to attend including members of the public, local politicians, public officials and community leaders.

Chamber Chief Executive Paul Keyes and Chamber President David Kiely will be present to engage and answer any questions.

In a spirit of transparency, we are planning to invite an independent moderator to chair the meeting to give the widest number of people an opportunity to contribute.

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delahuntv

Deleted User wrote: »

If you read the shops that are recently closing in Sligo thread, you will see that the majority are clothes shops. I sincerely doubt that a clothes shop would take a unit in the retail park as its just too big, I don't think that will ever be a factor. In fact the shops that are opening in town (Dealz and Tiger) are probably more likely to be competitiors to someone like homestore and more.

If Next or River Island or Dorothy Perkins, or New Look started trading in retail parks (as they have manged to do in the UK) it would simply kill the town centre.


If the retail parks were filled with shops paying rates it would benefit the town as a whole. No one is talking about outsourcing all the shops in the town to the retail park and the town becoming dead. I think what is more important is that people who need cars to do say their grocery shopping don't have to take up city centre parking spaces.

As above, if the big names moved into retail parks where rent and rates are substantially lower, it would kill off many small independent businesses and your choice for shopping would die as would the town centre - if you think its bad now, it would the ten times worse.




Your guess is probably wrong, Moffits is 3 stories, 1 of which is used for residential purposes. It at least has the same square footage as Halfords if not larger

Rates are primarily calculated on ground floor area. 1st floor would be rated at 70% lower than ground floor. Only commercial space is rated - so residential area of a building is exempt.

.

delahuntv

Itzy wrote: »

You'd think that the Chamber of Commerce wouldn't aim to shoot themselves in the foot by hassling Home Store and More. That's a loss of jobs and money that was being pumped into the local economy. Anyway, was it not the point of Home Store and More to sell what stock they currently have plus some.

Its not a specific HSM issue. Its strict retail park planning guidelines that must be applied fairly. If one store circumvents them, then otehr will, and not just in sligo.

If the high court sided with HSM, then all hell would break loose and large international retailers would simply move out of town centres into retail parks and you'd see the death of many towns.

Yes, far too much planning was given to retail parks and shopping in the country, but allowing for planning conditions to be circumvented just makes the issue worse.

In any case, it is just a small number of items that HSM must desist from selling and it seems to be a good compromise for both parties.

Geuze

If Home Store and More can only sell "bulky goods", then how can Curry's sell Flash drives?

Or how can Homebase sell a 2.5L tin of paint? Would you class that as bulky?

delahuntv

Geuze wrote: »

If Home Store and More can only sell "bulky goods", then how can Curry's sell Flash drives?

Or how can Homebase sell a 2.5L tin of paint? Would you class that as bulky?

read the guidelines and you'll understand.

TequilaMockingBird

If Homestore pull out I still wouldn't go into town to buy that type of product, I can't be arsed paying parking and the hassle of driving through town for a cheese grater. At least this way my few euro was staying in the county, if not in the hallowed 1 mile radius.

Geuze

delahuntv wrote: »

read the guidelines and you'll understand.

http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a3f34669680256ef3004a27de/b4e06c0a0d15260080257d95004faade?OpenDocument

I read this judgement.

I'm surprised that planning guideline on what could be sold are as specific to the particular unit of the retail park.

FoxyVixen

Only saw a glimpse of a headline in the paper. I think it was the Weekender.

Why in the name of God are Sligo loaning €55,000 to bail out knock airport every year when it's millions in debt.

Did anyone else see this or have the full details on it?

Henlars67

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Only saw a glimpse of a headline in the paper. I think it was the Weekender.

Why in the name of God are Sligo loaning €55,000 to bail out knock airport every year when it's millions in debt.

Did anyone else see this or have the full details on it?

If Sligo CoCo were in good financial shape then I would agree with this donation. (pretty sure it's not a loan)

Knock airport is very beneficial to Sligo, and brings a lot of people here.

However, given the state of the council's finances I don't know how they can do this. There is a motion from one of the SF councillors that government be asked to use money raised from the sale of Aer Lingus to bail out Knock airport, instead of the council having to pay out money.

Makes sense to me

delahuntv

Geuze wrote: »

http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a3f34669680256ef3004a27de/b4e06c0a0d15260080257d95004faade?OpenDocument

I read this judgement.

I'm surprised that planning guideline on what could be sold are as specific to the particular unit of the retail park.

Not the judgement, there are very specific retail guidelines regarding most retail parks. Planning is decided before the park is built, hence every potentil tenant knows exactly what they can / can not do. Some take a chance.

When you sell large bulky items or other tiems permitted under the guidlines, you may also sell accessories.

If HSM sold ovens and kitchens, they could sell accessories.

il gatto

50% of Homestore is small kitchenware, crockery, ornaments etc.
Homebase may sell kitchen "accessories" but most people have bought kitchenware there without ever buying a kitchen. It's possibly compliant but only as a gaping loophole. I think Homebase might be a tougher drag through the courts than Homestore though.
The thing is, who are they competing with? Apart from Homebase. The only kitchenware in the town is places like Cross Sections (nice stuff but pricey) or Tesco. Can't think of anywhere else. This may drive Homestore from the retail park but it won't move to the town center. It's just totally unsuitable.

il gatto

And delahuntv, you may find it sad or amusing that someone will not spend their money in CoC members shops, but there has been a pattern of the CoC lobbying for highly unpopular decisions from the CC or (now defunct) Borough Council. To the extent that people started boycotting them in reasonable numbers at which point some shops discretely removed the CoC membership stickers. And some other shops proudly displaying notices that they weren't CoC members.
The fact that the retail park had such restrictive planning was in part due to lobbying by the CoC in the first place. They are highly unpopular with many (not claiming a majority here, just a sizeable minority) shoppers and other retailers. The public meeting will be a PR exercise as their only interest lies with themselves. Rightly many would say. It's what they exist for. But we don't have to agree or indeed patronise their business's.

redarmyblues

delahuntv wrote: »

When you sell large bulky items or other tiems permitted under the guidlines, you may also sell accessories.

If HSM sold ovens and kitchens, they could sell accessories.

Argos sell Bulky items, ovens and the like, but they were refused planning for Carraroe and were obliged to open in the town centre to avoid the hemorrhaging of business from the historic retail core.

Radharc na Sleibhte

retail park up for sale according to today's paper. It'll be a challenge trying to get tenants for that place or sitting down with current tenants when their rents are up.

I had great plans in my head to put two businesses up there but the rents meant they weren't viable to even get off the ground.

Geuze

Given the drop in consumer spending, why are the landlords still charging high rents?

That retail park is in receivership, I believe.

GG66

That retail park should never have been developed,

It went against the advice of expert architects and planners at the time based on experience in the UK of how out of town shopping centres decimated local businesses and town centres.

It also destroyed the unique archaeological landscape that connects Knocknarea, Carrowmore and Cairns Hill which if in another country would be a world heritage site.

This was developed as a rampant worshiping ground for consumerism and consumers.

I'd be happy to demolish it tomorrow.

Moving on ...

It was bad planning in the first place.
Their planning was specific, they breached it, they pay the consequences.
Any jobs lost will be replaced selling saucepans elsewhere in the town.

And of course the Sligo Chamber of Commerce will represent the interest of their members, that's what membership organisations do. It may be a non profit but it is there to maximise the profits of it's members. It's not there to look out for the greater good or the social infrastructure of the town.

If you're interested in that, then get engaged in the Sligo Environs development plan, it's open to all to make submissions. Boards posts don't count.

il gatto

GG66 wrote: »

That retail park should never have been developed,

It went against the advice of expert architects and planners at the time based on experience in the UK of how out of town shopping centres decimated local businesses and town centres.

It also destroyed the unique archaeological landscape that connects Knocknarea, Carrowmore and Cairns Hill which if in another country would be a world heritage site.

This was developed as a rampant worshiping ground for consumerism and consumers.

I'd be happy to demolish it tomorrow.

Moving on ...

It was bad planning in the first place.
Their planning was specific, they breached it, they pay the consequences.
Any jobs lost will be replaced selling saucepans elsewhere in the town.

And of course the Sligo Chamber of Commerce will represent the interest of their members, that's what membership organisations do. It may be a non profit but it is there to maximise the profits of it's members. It's not there to look out for the greater good or the social infrastructure of the town.

If you're interested in that, then get engaged in the Sligo Environs development plan, it's open to all to make submissions. Boards posts don't count.

It's an eyesore due to it's elevated site. And was built at a time of rampant optimism. It had barely filled up when the collapse came.
The problem with Sligo is it's geography. Between the river widening just upstream, the sea and the hills and mountains, it doesn't have much space for larger development. That said, it did need something. Rather than haemorrhaging business from the town centre, it acted as a relief valve because the town was choking on traffic and parking was almost impossible. I think M&S stated that Sligo's traffic, parking and access were what prevented them from developing a shop near Quayside.
You shouldn't have so much traffic and parking taken up with people just buying groceries. Those people won't be wandering around the other shops. Most would prefer to just get their groceries on the outskirts and have more parking in the town centre for themselves and others for other shopping and business. Sligo is basically a small market/port town and it's streets can't handle excess traffic which doesn't need to be there. What's right for Coventry, Luton, Limerick or Belfast isn't necessarily directly applicable to Sligo. Maybe I'm a philistine but I like being able to buy a toaster or a dishwasher without double parking and hauling it across a busy street. I'll still go into town to buy clothes, go to the bank or get a haircut. At the end of the day, Sligo's center is half a dozen narrow streets. We shouldn't expect virtually all retail servicing 50,000 people to take place there.
The CoC, as has been stated, are of course there to represent it's members. But what is good for it's members is not always what's good for the general population. Just my take on it.

Did anyone here go to the chamber of commerce meeting?

Is the report on Sligo Today accurate? (http://sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=36930)

Buford T Justice

Sounds like a waste of time if you ask me.

rizzodun

Missed it because I was away but would have loved to go, sounds like it was a load of wishy washy nonsense by the chamber though.
The meeting was only called because of the backlash over the Homestore decision on social media. Does anyone know when the last time the chamber held a meeting like this?

As pointed out, Homestore had breached planning laws, however, it seems to a lot of people that the chamber spend a disproportionate amount of time lobbying and protesting against businesses that could pose some sort of threat via competition to the members, with very little time, effort and publicity to increasing the amount of visitors/investors to the town and surrounds.

Maybe a more accurate thread title is "How does the Chamber promote growth and outside investment in Sligo?"

Personally, from years spent working in businesses in town I don't think I would bother with a chamber membership if I opened my own business, they don't seem to be of any benefit to most small business owners if you ask me.

It would have been interesting to see if some local Sligo business owners that have been on the wrong side of the chambers 'lobbying' had turned up and what their views were.

Fair play to the woman who called Mr. Keyes out on calling Sligo a city, that boils my blood, we're not a city, not even close, the sooner the business owners and CoCo get that into their heads and stop with their delusions on grandeur the sooner rents and rates might come to a level that is respectable and that will encourage investment and growth in Sligo.

johnire

I went to it and as someone else says here it was indeed a complete waste of time.
I left feeling more frustrated than I arrived!
There were some incredibly good points raised but none of them were addressed in any meaningful manner. They were totally glossed over or just downright ignored.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did anyone here go to the chamber of commerce meeting?

Is the report on Sligo Today accurate? (http://sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=36930)

il gatto

I considered it but I have no time for bullsh1t. The sort wishy washy, non commital claptrap you get at these things, where the public are talked to like obtuse children and sensible questions are avoided or answered with standard buzzwords really boils my p1ss. Better to not go than end up saying something very rude in front of a crowd of people.

TireeTerror

I drove to Letterkenny on Sunday just for the sake of it having never been there. Same population as Sligo and yet the shopping is vastly superior with huge shops and a buzzing retail park area. Was quite interesting to see just how much more infrastructure there was there compared to Sligo.

Buford T Justice

This is either a case of shoddy reporting on behalf of SligoToday, or it has just described the manner in which the Chamber considers the input of the people of this town

The heart of the debate, the Chamber's objection in 2012 to the stock carried by Home Store & More outlet at the Sligo Retail Park in Carraroe was raised and cited as the reason that the store may now be leaving Sligo with the loss of twenty-five jobs.

The Chambers objection in 2012 was first reported on by Sligo Today and received a number of strong comments and votes. See Sligo Today 22/3/12

Several positive suggestions were made regarding what some described as the death of Sligo town centre and its dilapidated buildings.

If this was at the heart of the debate, this is all that's being said about it? Didn't the chamber at least try to defend its objections at all, or did they even give a toss.

Oh, and lets not forget

It was also queried why the regular bus service to Sligo Retail Park in Carraroe ceased.

Mr Keyes assured all that the Chamber had no involvement with bus schedules and would take up the matter, which he was unaware of, with Bus Éireann.

I'm sorry, but its laughable that someone who is the CEO of the COC isn't aware of this when the dog in the street knows that the bus service doesn't go up there any more. Its more likely in fact, that they are in favour of this simply because it makes it more difficult for people to go out of town to the retail park on the bus, equaling more spends for their own pockets.