Belgian Shepherd or Whippet for an apartment

FrostyJack

Hi, I am toying with the idea of getting a dog for my apartment and cannot decide what breed to go for. Ideally I would like a husky or malamute but because of their nature they would probably destroy the place digging. I have narrowed it down (with thanks to OH ) to a whippet or a shepherd. Obviously the whippet would be the ideal choice for in the apt but for outside the malinois would suit me better. The plan is that because I work shift I am off 4 days, so on the other 2 days he/she will be in doggy daycare. The OH will be off on weekends so the only time it will be on it's own will be when I go shopping or to gym or go out for dinner. I go on long hikes that I don't think the whippet would last nor would they stand the adverse weather. The running it probably would (only about an hour) where as the malinois would take it in their stride. The main issue is that will the malinois be doing cartwheels around the apartment knocking things over and generally pestering in between exercising or are they content with their daily exercise/training?
I have some experience with German Shepherds and would probably be looking at them where it not for the ridiculous RB legislation. If anyone has another suggestions I am open to them bar a noisy dog or toy dog ("any dog you have to bend down to pet is a cat" ).

ShaShaBear

FrostyJack wrote: »

Hi, I am toying with the idea of getting a dog for my apartment and cannot decide what breed to go for. Ideally I would like a husky or malamute but because of their nature they would probably destroy the place digging. I have narrowed it down (with thanks to OH ) to a whippet or a shepherd. Obviously the whippet would be the ideal choice for in the apt but for outside the malinois would suit me better. The plan is that because I work shift I am off 4 days, so on the other 2 days he/she will be in doggy daycare. The OH will be off on weekends so the only time it will be on it's own will be when I go shopping or to gym or go out for dinner. I go on long hikes that I don't think the whippet would last nor would they stand the adverse weather. The running it probably would (only about an hour) where as the malinois would take it in their stride. The main issue is that will the malinois be doing cartwheels around the apartment knocking things over and generally pestering in between exercising or are they content with their daily exercise/training?
I have some experience with German Shepherds and would probably be looking at them where it not for the ridiculous RB legislation. If anyone has another suggestions I am open to them bar a noisy dog or toy dog ("any dog you have to bend down to pet is a cat" ).

For the record, I had to bend down to pet my collie-bernese cross, he was certainly not a cat

If you are willing to dedicate the time and effort to proper exercise and training, all dogs are suitable for apartment living. Any dog can have a lazy or hyper temperament and any dog can take a distateful notion to weather conditions. I am sure there are many sheps that dislike walking in the rain and many sighthounds that love hiking!

If you are looking for a pup, either breed will be bouncing around the place like a lunatic and knocking things over, eating and tearing things! And you will need to be prepared for a lot of extra hiking to take a pup outside after meals and naps and in the middle of the night for toilet training.
If you are looking to adopt an adult, then there are shining examples of indoor laziness and outdoor hardiness and stamina in many shelters across the country, in breeds and mixes of reeds you would never guess

muddypaws

From any of the malinois that I know or have heard of, I wouldn't say there would be much difference between them and a husky or malamute in terms of the possibilities of destruction if bored or under-exercised. They are really focused, hard working dogs. It sounds as though you will be giving the dog a great life though, and if you do a lot of hiking, you should be able to let a malinois off lead, and get him/her a backpack to carry their own stuff. You can always crate train of course for when the dog is in the apartment alone, a stuffed Kong or similar, and they will be happy out for the short time they will be alone.

I don't know much about whippets but while donating some food etc to a rescue a few months ago, my mother and I fell in love with one and my mum took her home. I visit regularly and this is what I've observed. Yes, if its cold or raining out she cries and shakes so hard her body vibrates. Their delicate necks mean you can't use a flexi lead as the neck could snap with the jolt. Using the regular lead I've noticed if you start to jog or run she seems to instinctively want to take off sprinting at her own speed. Naturally on a regular lead that doesn't work and you have to grab her and stop her before her neck suffers. So its walking only or letting her off lead for a sprint in a secure area. On the other hand, she could hike all day! The thing about them being couch potatoes does not apply to her. She's crazy energetic all the time.

I agree with ShaSha about rescues. A reputable rescue should be able to pair you up with a dog to match your lifestyle. From what you said in your post, gym hiking etc. it sounds like you have the energy levels to give an active dog a great life. Theres so many dogs out there in pounds and rescues who were surrendered simply because their owners didn't have the time and energy for them, so its definitely worth considering.

Best of luck!

FrostyJack

Thanks folks for the replies. Once I choose the breed the next problem as said above was where to source one. Both have pro's and cons. If I got a pup I would at least know it was trained properly, socialised, bonded etc but if I got a rescue or an older dog I could cut out the time consuming part. I have been following some of the local pounds websites with an eye what they have, also donedeal and adverts and searched for some breeders. I have a holiday coming up in a few weeks so have been holding off until we get back as I don't want to get it and have to put it straight back in a kennel. Finding information online about breeders of whippets and mals are like hens teeth. Most of the links are dead or they just have a number which is probably out of service.

ShaShaBear

FrostyJack wrote: »

Thanks folks for the replies. Once I choose the breed the next problem as said above was where to source one. Both have pro's and cons. If I got a pup I would at least know it was trained properly, socialised, bonded etc but if I got a rescue or an older dog I could cut out the time consuming part. I have been following some of the local pounds websites with an eye what they have, also donedeal and adverts and searched for some breeders. I have a holiday coming up in a few weeks so have been holding off until we get back as I don't want to get it and have to put it straight back in a kennel. Finding information online about breeders of whippets and mals are like hens teeth. Most of the links are dead or they just have a number which is probably out of service.

Well firstly, avoid DoneDeal, as you won't be sourcing any reputable breeders there. You can also get puppies of both breeds fairly regularly in pounds and shelters. Plus, the large majority of shelters (not pounds, as they are a different thing) will have a foster program in place, meaning the dog (or pup) will have been raised in a family setting. I've seen a myriad of GSD and sighthound puppies surrendered and found straying recently, so it shouldn't be too hard to source one that has been fostered, probably well on the way to being toilet-trained and properly socialised.

Lastly, really think VERY hard about getting a puppy over an adult. If you are even concerned for a second that puppyhood would be too much, a young adult dog might be a better fit. They chew and nip/bite A LOT when teething - sometimes you can expect the behaviour to continue right up until their adult teeth come in at 6 months. Toilet training can be a huge nightmare, especially if you do not have direct and fast access to a garden. A puppy will need to be let outside to go to the toilet during the night for the first few months at least. You can't simply crate them at 10PM, head to bed, and see to them whenever you get up - expect to have to get up twice in this timeframe. Also, a young pup will not be close to ready for hour-long runs or hiking for a while yet. You can only give them limited exercise while their bones are developing - roughly 5 minutes per month of age. So a 3 month old GSD pup should only be getting 15 minutes of exercise per day in total.

And finally, check with the management co of your apartments and/or your landlord to ensure that you are allowed to get a dog.

muddypaws

I doubt there would be many Malinois pups in pounds or rescues,they are a fairly specialised dog. And if it was a mal you decided to go for, i would recommend choosing a breeder very carefully, making sure the dog is really well socialised. Most Malinois breeders would be working breeders, I don't know if there is an organisation here for schutzhund or similar? I have a friend in Sligo with a very well trained Malinois, I could ask her for breeder recommendations if you wanted.

blinding

Would a dog need a back garden to let off a bit of steam. Just my opinion.

tk123

blinding wrote: »

Would a dog need a back garden to let off a bit of steam. Just my opinion.

My dogs go out to the garden to go to the loo or if they're having a bone - the rest of the time they're asleep in the house.

blinding

tk123 wrote: »

My dogs go out to the garden to go to the loo or if they're having a bone - the rest of the time they're asleep in the house.

They do have the option though which sadly is not possibly in most flats.

ShaShaBear

ShaShaBear wrote: »

avoid DoneDeal, as you won't be sourcing any reputable breeders there. You can also get puppies of both breeds fairly regularly in pounds and shelters. Plus, the large majority of shelters will have a foster program in place, meaning the dog (or pup) will have been raised in a family setting...probably well on the way to being toilet-trained and properly socialised.

Toilet training can be a huge nightmare, especially if you do not have direct and fast access to a garden.

And finally, check with the management co of your apartments and/or your landlord to ensure that you are allowed to get a dog.

Those three things!!!!!!

Please don't use donedeal!

I babysat a puppy for two weeks earlier in the year in my apartment. On the third floor. It was not fun getting up several times a night and heading down three flights of stairs, to stand on the green in the cold and often rain waiting for the pup to do his business. (Which sometimes took aaages!)

A lot of landlords do not allow animals so be sure to have his/her permission first.

ShaShaBear

muddypaws wrote: »

I doubt there would be many Malinois pups in pounds or rescues,they are a fairly specialised dog. And if it was a mal you decided to go for, i would recommend choosing a breeder very carefully, making sure the dog is really well socialised. Most Malinois breeders would be working breeders, I don't know if there is an organisation here for schutzhund or similar? I have a friend in Sligo with a very well trained Malinois, I could ask her for breeder recommendations if you wanted.

Fair point, I misread when he mentioned whippets or sheps at the start and saying he had experience with GSDs

FrostyJack

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Well firstly, avoid DoneDeal, as you won't be sourcing any reputable breeders there. You can also get puppies of both breeds fairly regularly in pounds and shelters. Plus, the large majority of shelters (not pounds, as they are a different thing) will have a foster program in place, meaning the dog (or pup) will have been raised in a family setting. I've seen a myriad of GSD and sighthound puppies surrendered and found straying recently, so it shouldn't be too hard to source one that has been fostered, probably well on the way to being toilet-trained and properly socialised.

Lastly, really think VERY hard about getting a puppy over an adult. If you are even concerned for a second that puppyhood would be too much, a young adult dog might be a better fit. They chew and nip/bite A LOT when teething - sometimes you can expect the behaviour to continue right up until their adult teeth come in at 6 months. Toilet training can be a huge nightmare, especially if you do not have direct and fast access to a garden. A puppy will need to be let outside to go to the toilet during the night for the first few months at least. You can't simply crate them at 10PM, head to bed, and see to them whenever you get up - expect to have to get up twice in this timeframe. Also, a young pup will not be close to ready for hour-long runs or hiking for a while yet. You can only give them limited exercise while their bones are developing - roughly 5 minutes per month of age. So a 3 month old GSD pup should only be getting 15 minutes of exercise per day in total.

And finally, check with the management co of your apartments and/or your landlord to ensure that you are allowed to get a dog.

That is the sort of detail I was looking for with regards puppies exercise. I have raised 2 dogs from puppies (though it was when I was younger and less well informed) so I know the pain
pain but would be willing to go through it for the end result though right now I would take an
Adult which is housed trained. I have had my mothers dog over a few times so I know the stairs can be an issue but I have only one floor to climb and that isn't an issue. I own the apartment and there a few dogs around me so I am allowed them providing they aren't a barker.

When I said pound I meant <snip x 3> etc. I haven't physically gone up to any yet as any dog I wanted I doubt they would hold for a month or so. There seems to be GSD's, huskies and lurchers to beat the band there which really annoys me.

MUDDYPAWS if you could find out a good breeder that would be great. A guard dog is not what I am looking for though I do like that they have the physical ability to protect. I am on my phone so I can't quote people properly so appologies for the format.
I have experience with GSD as friends had but not any real expertise.

VonVix

Huge difference between the two breeds, and another huge difference in the three breeds if you hypothetically threw a husky into the mix there which makes me think it's worth asking, what is it about a whippet and a malinois that draws you to either of those breeds? Why them and not say, a labrador or a bearded collie (totally random breeds) if you catch my drift?

Facebook is actually a great source if you're trying to find a breeder, there are many Irish breed specific groups that have people passionate about the breed. Most legit breeders don't use the internet (ad type websites) to advertise their pups.

salmocab

The whippet is likely to be a lot more laid back around the apartment I would think. I have a greyhound cross and whilst he's happy with a good run he's also happy to trot along for a few hours on a long walk/hike. The downside is bloody sighthounds will go off after a rabbit or a deer like a kid after an ice cream van so I generally keep him on lead if I'm up the mountains.

ShaShaBear

FrostyJack wrote: »

T

When I said pound I meant <snip x3> etc. I haven't physically gone up to any yet as any dog I wanted I doubt they would hold for a month or so. There seems to be GSD's, huskies and lurchers to beat the band there which really annoys me.

Most good rescues will, in fact, reserve a dog if they know it is going to a good home. The rescue I work with in Louth and also one my sister volunteers for in Monaghan both reserve and hold animals when they know there is a good home waiting.
I'm not pushing the rescue agenda here, just if its something you'd consider, it might help to know more about it if some things are cleared up

Breeder route can indeed be challenging if you're not used to dealing with them. IKC registration means nothing with regards to the quality of the breeder and his/her respect and love for their animal(s), so there are a HUGE amount of things to watch out for.

muddypaws

OP, I'll talk to my friend about breeders, but I'm not sure if you realise how different Malinoises are to GSDs? They are out and out working dogs, a really high work drive. I was reminded today that they are known as land sharks, have you met any? They are amazing dogs, but I think a husky is easier

VonVix

muddypaws wrote: »

OP, I'll talk to my friend about breeders, but I'm not sure if you realise how different Malinoises are to GSDs? They are out and out working dogs, a really high work drive. I was reminded today that they are known as land sharks, have you met any? They are amazing dogs, but I think a husky is easier

Gawd, you think a husky is easier??? :eek: I have experience with a lot of huskies but I know for sure I'd never own one due to the experience I have received! But I've had a curiosity in malinois for a while (I've only known one in real life but I don't have much to go on from that), can you explain how/why you think a husky is easier than a malinois?

muddypaws

VonVix wrote: »

Gawd, you think a husky is easier??? :eek: I have experience with a lot of huskies but I know for sure I'd never own one due to the experience I have received! But I've had a curiosity in malinois for a while (I've only known one in real life but I don't have much to go on from that), can you explain how/why you think a husky is easier than a malinois?

Because of their work drive. Give a husky a good walk or run each day, and most of them are fine (as I look around at a room full of sleeping huskies on various pieces of furniture). Malinois have to have a job. A lot of huskies available now wouldn't be from working lines, and wouldn't be as high energy as those that are from working lines, but I don't think you'll find a malinois in Ireland that isn't from working lines.

Just my opinion

Knine

I agree with Muddypaws. Very good friends of mine have both breeds. No way would I recommend a Malinois for an apartment. They have a very high working drive even when compared with a Husky. They are most certainly not for novice owners either.

FrostyJack

My understanding of the consensus is huskies are independent and have selective hearing. Mals are more intelligent and more obedient. I require a dog that will follow my commands. I know GSD only look similar but they too have (generally) the same intelligence and obedience. It would be case closed and adopt a GSD if it wasn't for the Rb laws. I know mals and GSD shed a lot but what I can read the Huskies explode hair which is another factor.

DBB

As one who lives with working GSDs OP, I'll be totally honest with you and say that living with a Mali in an apartment would be... inadvisable... I am being very tame with my wording here!
Malis are an incredibly drivey, sharp breed, and they are barkers. They do a great line in high-pitched, loud barking. As already said, not a dog for a novice owner, and really, not an apartment dog at all.
In my opinion, GSDs (can't speak for BSDs as I don't live with them, but I can't see why they'd be much different), are heavy shedders. It is a constant battle in my house to keep one long-coated GSD's coat under control with daily grooming and daily hoovering, and still at moulting time, there are hairballs rolling about the floor. With two GSDs (one short, one long-coated), I could throw my hat at trying to keep the place clean. And that's a 3-bed house!
I don't know where you live, but the Dubin dog wardens, for some reason known only to themselves, consider BSDs to be a "strain" of GSDs (they're not), but they do hassle owners of BSDs re the dog control laws.
My reaction to your proposal to keep a Mali in an apartment was one of shock, to be honest... I know you don't want to hear that, but it does sound to me that you could offer a great home to a different, easier, non-RB breed.

FrostyJack

I take your honesty on board, I didn't post here to hear what I wanted to hear. I wanted to be correctly informed. I am not arrogant enough to say I can training any dog but I have read and seen anecdotal evidence one can be trained in an apartment. I will probably focus on a whippet until I get a house or they change the muzzling laws.

ra0044

Hi op.

Would you consider a greyhound over a whippet? We have a whippet and whilst he is lazy he does go on mad crazy runs at full speed around the house and out in to the garden at least once a day. This is just to release the pent up energy he has between walks. He also craves attention at times and pesters to get it and if he doesn't then he can chew stuff.

A greyhound on the other hand is very lazy between walks and a lot more mellow full stop. Bigger in size and stature as well if that is important.

Again just be careful with both when out walking them both. Whippets look small and dainty but are lightning quick to chase and are incredibly strong when pulling on the lead. The number of times my arm has nearly been pulled from its socket because Bert has seen a bloody cat and shot off after it in the opposite direction is in the hundreds.

ShaShaBear

ra0044 wrote: »

Hi op.

Would you consider a greyhound over a whippet? We have a whippet and whilst he is lazy he does go on mad crazy runs at full speed around the house and out in to the garden at least once a day. This is just to release the pent up energy he has between walks. He also craves attention at times and pesters to get it and if he doesn't then he can chew stuff.

A greyhound on the other hand is very lazy between walks and a lot more mellow full stop. Bigger in size and stature as well if that is important.

Again just be careful with both when out walking them both. Whippets look small and dainty but are lightning quick to chase and are incredibly strong when pulling on the lead. The number of times my arm has nearly been pulled from its socket because Bert has seen a bloody cat and shot off after it in the opposite direction is in the hundreds.

Just to note, I fostered a greyhound x a few months back and she had episodes of utter craziness between walks as well. It was no issue as we just left the back door open and she would fly off herself for a sprint but I wouldn't assume all greyhounds to be completely placid throughout the day!

ra0044

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Just to note, I fostered a greyhound x a few months back and she had episodes of utter craziness between walks as well. It was no issue as we just left the back door open and she would fly off herself for a sprint but I wouldn't assume all greyhounds to be completely placid throughout the day!

Good to know. Hopefully getting a greyhound to keep our whippet company in the future.

Inexile

I think OP you have a mix of requirements here which is making it hard to find the right dog for you. You want an dog suitable for an apartment but also suitable for high energy exercise.

I deal a lot with greys, which others have suggested as an alternative to a whippet, and while they are great dogs for apartments, and will do long walks they arent really good running companions. I wouldn't see them doing an hours running at any rate and I don't think whippets would be much better.
Greys and whippets are sprinters rather than marathon runners - though I open to correction on the whippets as I don't deal with too many of them.

As regards bad weather greys and whippets can be wrapped up against the elements - there are some very fine and fancy coats available out there.

A lurcher may be a good compromise. Depending on the mix they may have more endurance and their coat maybe thicker and more weather resistant which would suit outdoor activity.

Good luck with the search.

FrostyJack

I wouldn't be adverse to a greyhound as from what I can tell there isn't much difference with a whippet in terms of care. I know there are a lot of retired greyhounds about so was looking into that. With regards the running, having a dog for that isn't essential as I would only be gone an hour or so but for hiking I could be gone all day so would need to bring it with me or leave it with someone else. The lurcher could be a mixed bag. If it had the best of both its breeds it could be great or it could be a disaster. I seen today in a petshop in Tallaght the husky rescue group are bringing their dogs to the store on of the days this month, but alas I am in work that day. I might have been a good time to view them. I see some other shelters have done similar things but you have to search to find when they are on. It is a real pity there isn't a one central organisation or website to have all the information.

Inexile

Frosty Jack. If you are thinking of going down the rescue route or even if you are not. Why not contact one of the rescues that deal with the breeds that you are looking at. You wont be committed to taking a dog from them but they would be a good source of info re the breed (as are some of the posters on here). I know of rescues that have husky pups, a grey pup and a whippet x pup. None are based in Dublin I will pm them if you are interested.

FrostyJack

Hi thanks, I was thinking about it today and if I was to go the rescue route, which is the most likely, I would probably go with an older dog, well at least over one anyway to try and get over the worst of the issues.

After watching the video below I think it put me off a high drive dog lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXqNl5bTCMU

Inexile

oh but just in case I have just heard of a south based rescue who have an older whippet pup come in...

that video is why I love crates

Springwell

A smaller lurcher would happily be an apartment dog, a whippet/beddy type cross maybe. Lots in rescue.

dazor

Hi,
This may be a late reply, but I want to say is DON'T get a Malinois if you live in a apartment. Owning a GSD is easy compared to a Malinois, most GSD have low drive. Also you would need to spend lots of time with the dog. These dogs are pure working line dogs ( some are show dogs with low drive ), if left unattended for long your house will be destroyed.
I bought my Mali from Done Deal, the guy had the Mother & Father imported from Europe with papers.
The Belgian Malinois is a dog like no other, truly a superior breed, but it needs to have lots of time and attention.

I hope this helped in some way and is not to late.

FrostyJack

dazor wrote: »

Hi,
I hope this helped in some way and is not to late.

Hey you are not too late, I got a springer spaniel cross in the end. Though in saying that I don't know if a mal could be any worse. She is very needy and takes up most of my time walking her and driving her to parks etc. Don't trust her to be on her own either, if I leave the room she follows me. Hoping it is just her settling in. Her ball drive is non-existent so running and walking are her only exercise and all she lives for, she is slowly learning to follow my commands though so hopeful for the future.

DBB

FrostyJack wrote: »

Hey you are not too late, I got a springer spaniel cross in the end. Though in saying that I don't know if a mal could be any worse.

I think, tbh, had you listed a Springer or any cross thereof in your initial short-list, you'd have been advised against that too, for similar reasons why people advised against a Malinois. Keeping any drivey, working breed in an apartment is a lot to ask of them.
Good luck with her op, I hope it works out for you both regardless.

FrostyJack

DBB wrote: »

I think, tbh, had you listed a Springer or any cross thereof in your initial short-list, you'd have been advised against that too, for similar reasons why people advised against a Malinois. Keeping any drivey, working breed in an apartment is a lot to ask of them.
Good luck with her op, I hope it works out for you both regardless.

Yeah my girlfriend fell in love with her so I didn't have much of a choice in the end Ironically the dog loves me more and almost ignores her. I actually had the same cross as my first dog as a child, though slightly smaller, so I know the breed. I have no problem with the drive it her stubbornness I have more of a problem with. She is more than happy to lie on couch all day as long as long as she gets her walks. Once she is distracted or excited, good luck getting her to do anything. Don't get me started on birds She has slipped off the lead a few times (pulls like a train) and I have let her off briefly in safe places and she always comes back. I think some of that is more panic than obedience so I could never let her do it near traffic or other dangers. In saying that she is easily the most spoiled dog in the country so I am sure she will come round when she is used to us.

Ashbx

Congrats on your new family additionFrosty Jack!

Just to say, I own a border collie and was quite nervous taking her on due to her high working drive (she was 5 when I got her). She is absolutely fine! She is brought for 2 walks a day, sometimes 3. But is left alone for 4 - 6 hours everyday. Not once has she destroyed anything, gone to toilet in our house, go wild in the house, started barking....none of that! Now we do have a house with a back garden, but like another poster said, my dogs only use the garden to go to the toilet and they are back in their beds again.

It may not be the same for a mal, but I think if you are willing to put in the effort to ensure they are fully exercised, most working dogs are fine to have in a house/apartment.

dazor

FrostyJack wrote: »

Hey you are not too late, I got a springer spaniel cross in the end. Though in saying that I don't know if a mal could be any worse. She is very needy and takes up most of my time walking her and driving her to parks etc. Don't trust her to be on her own either, if I leave the room she follows me. Hoping it is just her settling in. Her ball drive is non-existent so running and walking are her only exercise and all she lives for, she is slowly learning to follow my commands though so hopeful for the future.

There are not many dogs that have a Malinois drive, so consider yourself lucky that you didn't get one
My Malinois was like you stated above, but his ball/toys drive was insane, he rips his toys up in minutes.
Me and my dad own my Mali, we bring it outside about 4/5 times a day, with the first one being 7am every day. Really good dog the Malinois is ( In my opinion the best dog) if given lots of time. I go training to a guy in Tullamore for training in which my dog does Bite/protection work & searching. He is one if not the best trainer in Ireland, he does all sorts of work with dogs and they are all one on one. He would be able to teach basic and advanced obedience and possibly if you choose to do searching work.
He got my dog to a really good standard, so if you want to try this guy let me know

FrostyJack

dazor wrote: »

There are not many dogs that have a Malinois drive, so consider yourself lucky that you didn't get one
My Malinois was like you stated above, but his ball/toys drive was insane, he rips his toys up in minutes.
Me and my dad own my Mali, we bring it outside about 4/5 times a day, with the first one being 7am every day. Really good dog the Malinois is ( In my opinion the best dog) if given lots of time. I go training to a guy in Tullamore for training in which my dog does Bite/protection work & searching. He is one if not the best trainer in Ireland, he does all sorts of work with dogs and they are all one on one. He would be able to teach basic and advanced obedience and possibly if you choose to do searching work.
He got my dog to a really good standard, so if you want to try this guy let me know

Mine doesn't play with toys or chew, which some people probably think is great but it is frustrating as other than lying around she doesn't occupy herself. Kongs keep her going for a few mins and I have puzzle games for dinner but once they are done it is sit looking at me or sleep. I am going to try teach her fetch and to find hidden items. Not going to be easy as food is the only thing she will focus on. Might work with her rawhide bone (she doesn't eat but picks it up and walks with it). Would love to do schutzhund or something if got a Mal or GSD, don't think she would be much use, she doesn't even lick people and is scared of strange men .

dazor

FrostyJack wrote: »

Mine doesn't play with toys or chew, which some people probably think is great but it is frustrating as other than lying around she doesn't occupy herself. Kongs keep her going for a few mins and I have puzzle games for dinner but once they are done it is sit looking at me or sleep. I am going to try teach her fetch and to find hidden items. Not going to be easy as food is the only thing she will focus on. Might work with her rawhide bone (she doesn't eat but picks it up and walks with it). Would love to do schutzhund or something if got a Mal or GSD, don't think she would be much use, she doesn't even lick people and is scared of strange men .

Yeah toys are a great way to tire dogs out. My Mali loves the frisbee and chases it for 30mins non stop to tire itself out and after 10mins he's ready to do it again .
Be patient with your dog, if food motivates her then use it as a tool, remember she has to realise that you're the one who feeds her and if you didn't she will starve.
Your type of dog is good for searching, so you should consider doing this in the park to keep her excited and interested. All you need is a cloth/toy she loves, rub your scent on it, hide it and let her find it, at the start encourage her and help guide her to the toy/cloth. Once she finds it reward her with a treat.

My dog is more of a protection/attacking dog, but I do searching with him and he picks it up really well and he seems to really enjoy it.

Like I said before, if you need the guys number from Tullamore for training let me know, his name is Liam and he runs San Martin Kennels. He trains dogs full time from morning to night and I recommend him if you live close or can travel.

Nody

dazor wrote: »

Like I said before, if you need the guys number from Tullamore for training let me know, his name is Liam and he runs San Martin Kennels. He trains dogs full time from morning to night and I recommend him if you live close or can travel.

Does he still use choke collars etc. as part of his training as he was reported to use back in 2011?

FrostyJack

dazor wrote:

Like I said before, if you need the guys number from Tullamore for training let me know, his name is Liam and he runs San Martin Kennels.

Nody wrote: »

Does he still use choke collars etc. as part of his training as he was reported to use back in 2011?

Just read up on that there, doesn't sound like something I would send my princess to. Positive training methods all the way each to their own though.

dazor

Nody wrote: »

Does he still use choke collars etc. as part of his training as he was reported to use back in 2011?

Yeah he is old fashioned, very good for the dog. I am not the biggest fan on choke collars, but I do use a pinch collar and before you criticise, I love my dog very much, but my dog is a working dog and the collar is a benefit for both of us.

dazor

FrostyJack wrote: »

Just read up on that there, doesn't sound like something I would send my princess to. Positive training methods all the way each to their own though.

I agree, he is old fashioned, you don't have to wear a choke collar with Liam. Positive enforcement would be the best type for your dog

Nody

dazor wrote: »

Yeah he is old fashioned, very good for the dog. I am not the biggest fan on choke collars, but I do use a pinch collar and before you criticise, I love my dog very much, but my dog is a working dog and the collar is a benefit for both of us.

That's not old fashioned; that's outright stupid and goes against all science and data in how to train dogs today and no properly trained trainer (i.e. APDT certified) would ever condone it.

dazor

Nody wrote: »

That's not old fashioned; that's outright stupid and goes against all science and data in how to train dogs today and no properly trained trainer (i.e. APDT certified) would ever condone it.

Each to their own I guess. I think he is a fantastic trainer that gets the job done. He has trained my dog to a really high standard in attacking/ protection.

I don't like the choke collar and I also don't like giving a dog a treat when he does something good. Positive enforcement is good for smaller dogs or dogs with low drive.

DBB

dazor wrote: »

Yeah he is old fashioned, very good for the dog. I am not the biggest fan on choke collars, but I do use a pinch collar and before you criticise, I love my dog very much, but my dog is a working dog and the collar is a benefit for both of us.

I'm not sure what being a working dog has to do with it? Most UK police forces ditched choke chains years ago, and certainly won't use prong/pinch collars. Saying that working dogs have to wear gear like this is an excuse, an utter fallacy.
I'm also interested in what you say because I train working GSDs, but have never, ever seen any need for using such gear. I think it's a hangover from traditional training that has no place in dog training any more.

DBB

dazor wrote: »

I don't like the choke collar and I also don't like giving a dog a treat when he does something good. Positive enforcement is good for smaller dogs or dogs with low drive.

Aww dazor, c'mon! Such nonsense!
Police dogs, drugs dogs, all sniffer dogs, you're saying have low drive? Really? Yet all are trained using positive reinforcement... Which is more than just giving food too... But lads who use pain-inducing gear and old-fashioned methods often have that misconception.
I'd have a good few contacts in the police dog units both here and in the uk who completely, utterly disagree with you. Time to get a bit of research and knowledge under your belt before coming out with stuff like above! It's like reading posts from the 1970s!

dazor

DBB wrote: »

I'm not sure what being a working dog has to do with it? Most UK police forces ditched choke chains years ago, and certainly won't use prong/pinch collars. Saying that working dogs have to wear gear like this is an excuse, an utter fallacy.
I'm also interested in what you say because I train working GSDs, but have never, ever seen any need for using such gear. I think it's a hangover from traditional training that has no place in dog training any more.

My dog always wears it, he knows when the pinch collar is on that means we are working. I have a double sided lead and the pinch collar is barely used.
There is no right way or wrong way, each to their own.
For me personally the pinch works really good, my dog co-operates well with it. I don't use it to abuse my dog in any way.

Nody

dazor wrote: »

My dog always wears it, he knows when the pinch collar is on that means we are working. I have a double sided lead and the pinch collar is barely used.
There is no right way or wrong way, each to their own.
For me personally the pinch works really good, my dog co-operates well with it. I don't use it to abuse my dog in any way.

But there is a right or wrong way; the right way does not include inflicting pain, fear etc. on your dog and you do abuse your dog by having the collar on him in the first place. There are a ton of research that back up that position and nothing I've found that back up the idea of fear, pain etc. as training method is working or recommended.

DBB

dazor wrote: »

There is no right way or wrong way, each to their own.
For me personally the pinch works really good, my dog co-operates well with it. I don't use it to abuse my dog in any way.

Again, a couple of stock lines from lads who use pain-inducing gear... No right or wrong way? Imagine if human behavioural specialists said such a thing?!
If you don't need to use the prongs, why use the collar? Of course your dog co-operates with it, he kinda has to... Doesn't he?
Fact is that so many people who train dogs for professional work, have ditched such gear and attitudes long ago. Amateur, traditional trainers can't hide behind the excuses any more, but because they haven't updated their knowledge in line with the professional organisations, who themselves have realised the importance of using evidence-based, research-led dog training, they cling to saying things just like you have regarding positive reinforcement, "no right and wrong way", and "doesn't do (me) any harm".
Each to their own indeed... Justifying it is a whole different matter.