1-bedroom apartment - still a bad idea?

Breezer

Hi there, looking for some advice from those who know more than me.

I've been renting in Dublin 2 for the last number of years, taking advantage of the fact that my landlord never put up the rent from bottom of the market times. He's finally made up for it, and while I can afford to stay where I am, I'd be cutting back so much on everything else that I don't think it's worth it.

I'd like to stay in the area and have found two apartments I like, in the same development, a 1 bed and a 2 bed. Initially I thought the 2 bed was obviously the better buy, but I've been thinking.

Basically the 1 bed is top floor (so less noise), 53 sq metres (so not an a shoebox as they go, but still small), €70,000 cheaper, with a private balcony and attic storage. Asking price is €195,000; I would be hoping to pay less. The 2 bed is 58 sq metres, with smaller bedrooms, a smaller bathroom, on the 1st floor and surrounded by other apartments, no storage other than the spare bedroom, no balcony, and to be honest I'd be stretching the budget. Both come with designated parking and are in similarly good condition. The block has a communal satellite dish and communal internet if people want it, and is well maintained.

For me, to live in, for now, the 1 bed is the better buy. I'm fairly minimalist so don't need an entire room to store stuff. Kids aren't going to happen any time in the next decade. And while I don't have a crystal ball, in this market I could feasibly let it if I wanted to travel etc. (I'm 28). I would intend to take somewhere between at 15 and 20 year mortgage out.

My worry is being able to sell it on. Everything I've read says no one wants 1 bedroom apartments. But those threads are from 2011/2012. This is also far larger than an average 1 bed, right in Dublin city centre, and in a nice part of it. Honest opinions, would I be making a Celtic Tiger mistake of landing myself with something I'll never shift, or have times changed since the crash?

Dubwat

53 sq.m vs 58 sq.m: 5 sq.m (& a bedroom) adds €70,000 to the price. Wow!

I'm not looking to rent or buy so take my opinion with a large pinch of salt. I just stumbled on this thread at random.

The one bed sounds like the better option for you at the moment (and for the next few years). It's pointless trying to predict 10 or 20 years down into the future. Don't buy just because you can. That's what got people into trouble during the boom.

Re the one bed, my main concern would the management charge for the top floor flat. Is it a lot compared to the ground floor apartment?

Also, how would you organise things if someone overnighted? Or you had a dinner party? In the 'old days', the computer usually went into the spare bedroom but I guess now with laptops and tablets, space is not an issue for computers?

If you had to sell or rent in a few years, a one bed apartment in Dublin 2 could be marketed to lots of different people. You could be a Cork businessman who spends 1 or 2 days a month in Dublin. Or a firm of Galway solictors who regularly appear in the courts in Dublin and need a base for the staff. Or a American software company who needs a cheap apartment to host visiting staff. Or a Donegal farmer who sends his kid to college in Dublin?

Or even just a plain auld Dub like yourself who needs somewhere to live in Dublin

Good luck whatever you decide!

athtrasna

The other issue may be getting a mortgage. Anecdotally people were having trouble getting mortgage approval for one bedroom apartments in recent times. I would take advice on this.

The_Conductor

I'd concur with the others- on the basis of what you're saying-the 1 bed seems to be a far better proposition. Have a check with the bank- whether they'd be willing to consider it for mortgage purposes- that could well be the deal breaker........

Breezer

Thanks all.

Dubwat wrote: »

Don't buy just because you can. That's what got people into trouble during the boom.

My other options are pay far more than my mortgage in rent, move miles away, move in with my parents or share with strangers. None of those are very enticing. Though they may be more financially sensible I guess. I don't know if that's buying because I can or buying out of necessity.

Re the one bed, my main concern would the management charge for the top floor flat. Is it a lot compared to the ground floor apartment?

It's €240 cheaper at present for the top floor one bed. To clarify, the other one is 1st floor, not ground.

Also, how would you organise things if someone overnighted? Or you had a dinner party? In the 'old days', the computer usually went into the spare bedroom but I guess now with laptops and tablets, space is not an issue for computers?

Crash on couch or I could consider a sofa bed. No, I don't have a bulky computer, just a laptop and a tablet. I've done dinner parties in my current place that has the same size living room. This isn't a worry really.

athtrasna wrote: »

The other issue may be getting a mortgage. Anecdotally people were having trouble getting mortgage approval for one bedroom apartments in recent times. I would take advice on this.

Yes, so I believe. I've contacted a mortgage advise company, I'll be hearing from them in the next few days I hope. In a way this would solve the dilemma though, it'd then be a simple choice between stumping up or swallowing my pride and living with mammy for a while.

Anyone else? I'm keen to hear opinions re resale in particular. If a large number of people on here don't think I'm mad, that would suggest a similar number of people may consider buying it from me at some point, which is positive!

The_Conductor

Apartments- alongside other leasehold property- are falling in the Dublin area again- almost without exception. If you are looking at this from the prospect of reselling it- the 2 bed will almost always swing it (unless you're in a high demand area- and the penthouse apartment has an exclusivity associated with it, that other properties do not).

In some rare cases- the 1 bed- could potentially be more valuable down the road- given what you've told us- however, I wouldn't rely on it.

Looking at the current transaction from a utility perspective- and what best suits you and your lifestyle- the 1 bed is hands ahead of the other option. Your own utility of the property- and a future use- are two entirely different kettles of fish though.......

I'd be very much in favour of the one bed- on the basis of what you've told us. God only knows what the future will bring re: selling it though.........

MarkAnthony

Antecedently we're still seeing increases in D8, possibly as we didn't rise as fast as everyone else and are seeing some people pushed into the area.

OP the one bed sounds a better bet to me. If you're willing to hold on to it, you shouldn't have much problem renting it. That said being a LL is a pain the the behind. €195K also seems a wee bit high but it depends where it is I suppose.

Floodzie

I bought a 1 bedroom place and lived in it for 10 years.

I also thought I would never need a 2nd room, until I did. I replaced the sofa with a sofabed, and only the very expensive ones are really any good.

If I had my time again, I would get a 2 bed place. Maybe not the one you are talking about, but I think apartment prices are only going to go one way - down - for the next while. Even though the 1 bed place you mentioned sounds good, and could be upgraded to a 2 bed if you were ever selling/renting it, from a day to day point of view having only 1 room is not good. I always regretted having to have guests sleep in the sitting room, and it would have been nice to have a dedicated home office/2nd living room, or a room I could rent out if money was ever tight.

A 1 bed place really limits your life now, never mind whatever happens in the future.

Just my experience - but 10 years is 10 years...

Idbatterim

having a top floor one, would make apartment living so much more bearable IMO. While it is wise to plan for the future, we are living in the here and now...

My worry is being able to sell it on. Everything I've read says no one wants 1 bedroom apartments.

Yeah and they are now all chasing the same 3/4 bed semi D, except they arent going to get what they want, well the majority anyway... If you want to live on your own, it may be well and good saying go for the 2 bed, if you can afford it and it is like for like with the 1 bed apartment, but it isnt...

Wheety

At least with the top floor apartment you won't be listening to people stomping around above you.

quadrifoglio verde

I font get the hatred for small one bed apartments. While they're not family friendly, from an investment point of view they always return the highest yield as they're sought after by tenants who want there own space but don't want to share.
The rent for a one bed vs a two bed are very similar, if you were to rent it out in future, you'd be a long time getting the extra 70k back.
As the one bed is the same size as the two bed, you don't get much more quality of life for your 70k, in fact I'd say it's a worse quality of life, all the rooms that you'll be living in will be smaller.

How often do you have people staying with you at the moment? If it's once in a blue moon kind of thing, I wouldn't be going for the two bed for that reason.

The_Conductor

While Ithink in this instance that the argument for the 1 bed is overwhelming- particularly as its going to be used by an owner occupier for a protracted period of time- it is not the case that it will command a similar rental yield down the road- and in an Irish context- it will most certainly be looked down on.

In this instance- the 1 bed is barely different in size from the 2 bed- aka- you could almost do an internal relayout- if you were particularly exercised about it- but its not an issue.

Will this be in demand in future- to be honest- it depends on precisely where it is- more than anything else- its all wholly to do with location.

Idbatterim

location is Dublin 2, so its safe to assume its a good central, desirable position, one way or another...

Breezer

Thanks for all the replies folks. I was booked in to view them both today. 1 bed went sale agreed for €10k above the asking price earlier in the week. I was aiming to go in a good bit below it. I looked at the 2 bed for 60 seconds and said no way. I also viewed another one yesterday and again there were too many trade offs.

Certainly lots of food for thought in this thread. I think ultimately I've been spoiled by renting a high quality apartment for 4 years. I reckon I'd be better off saving a higher deposit for the next 12 months and putting my money into a house somewhere just inside or outside the canals. Good value to be had there at the moment I think, relative to the price of apartments.

Cheers.

Floodzie

Breezer wrote: »

I reckon I'd be better off saving a higher deposit for the next 12 months and putting my money into a house somewhere just inside or outside the canals. Good value to be had there at the moment I think, relative to the price of apartments.

It may be a bit more hassle in the short term, but you are doing the right thing. Lots of houses are now becoming available for the same price as a good apartment.

Like I said, 10 years was long time in a 1 bed apartment for me. I spent a lot of time wishing I had some sort of garden - even a yard!

You are definitely doing the right thing, good luck with the house hunt. House prices seem to be moving in your favour.

Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm in a similar predicament at the moment.

One bedroom apartment modernised to a high standard in a very good location for 300k, slightly lower standard two bedroom apartments in a slightly less sought after location are around the same price.

It's a considerable price difference to a year or two ago but would the two bedroom still be the better investment?

Parchment

the only way i would consider buying in an apartment building would be for a top floor apartment.If i was in your current situation and the bank approved the mortgage i would go for the 1 bed without hesitation.

riclad

I think the 2 bed is the better investment, in case you might want to rent out one room .
say in 10 years , you ,ll easily sell it if you need to for some reason.
with brexit, price of oil ,interest rates ,etc no one can predict the market
10 years ahead .
AS we saw in the celtic tiger crash, theres lots of people who bought 1 bed units as a starter home but now cant afford to buy anything larger.

o1s1n

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm in a similar predicament at the moment.

One bedroom apartment modernised to a high standard in a very good location for 300k, slightly lower standard two bedroom apartments in a slightly less sought after location are around the same price.

It's a considerable price difference to a year or two ago but would the two bedroom still be the better investment?

300k for a 1 bedroom apartment seems like madness. Is it particularly large? The location must be amazing for that?

The_Conductor

o1s1n wrote: »

300k for a 1 bedroom apartment seems like madness. Is it particularly large? The location must be amazing for that?

It does seem excessive- however, I guess, location is everything.
Depending on where it is- it might be an excellent buy.
A 1 bed apartment, equipped to a very high spec, in a good location- is like gold dust.
That said- using historical yields- you'd be looking at charging at least 2,400-2,500 a month rent for it. Is this achievable? Seems a bit crazy for a 1 bed?

TeaBagMania

This is just me but I would never pay that kinda money or any money for that matter for an apartment or condo. Id rather a detached house with a bit of land outside the city and commute

The_Conductor

TeaBagMania wrote: »

This is just me but I would never pay that kinda money or any money for that matter for an apartment or condo. Id rather a detached house with a bit of land outside the city and commute

Depends.

Would you be happy to put a price on not sitting in traffic for 3+ hours a day?
If you bought ye semi-d with a garden in a commuter town- you could also have average car ownership bills of 12-14k per annum.........

Its a game of swings and round abouts- you win some, you loose some........

TeaBagMania

It s a balancing act for sure and would take a lot of research, depending on direction from the city, maybe a train to a car park, or maybe fewer vehicles travel a certain direction, or you could change your schedule at work to miss rush hour.
12-14K per annum, what are you driving a V8 range rover?

REM76

So glad I emigrated.

Bought 5 bed in WA for $380k (EUR263), 45 mins spotless air-conditioned train to CBD.

Earning x3 times salary as I was in Dublin.

People in Ireland are mental.

Mezcita

REM76 wrote: »

So glad I emigrated.

Bought 5 bed in WA for $380k (EUR263), 45 mins spotless air-conditioned train to CBD.

Earning x3 times salary as I was in Dublin.

People in Ireland are mental.

Not quite comparing apples with apples though is it? Australia's grand but making the conscious decision to live a good 24 hours away from friends and family is a step too far for most people.

riclad

You can buy a nice 2 bed apartment in a good area for 260-300 .
i understand people will pay 300k to live in a posh area ,eg blackrock,
even if it means settling for a 1 bed unit .

The_Conductor

riclad wrote: »

You can buy a nice 2 bed apartment in a good area for 260-300 .
i understand people will pay 300k to live in a posh area ,eg blackrock,
even if it means settling for a 1 bed unit .

You can pay 700-800k for a 1 bed unit in Blackrock- if you see someone selling for 300k- bite their hand off........

'Good area' is also open to interpretation. What you consider to be good- another person might not live in, if you paid them to- its incredibly subjective.

The OP has indicated that they are purchasing an investment. For an investment- location is key- not the size, or indeed the price. Location- will determine desirability.

riclad

When i say good area ,i mean an area where you feel safe, its not close to a pub, it not close to a large council tower block .it,s not in the middle of nowhere ,.close to bustops or a luas stop.

The_Conductor

Fair enough. A lot of people wouldn't be happy with your definition of 'good area' though- and indeed, depending on the person in question- they could have a long and varied list of criteria, that don't feature on your list (such as fibre optic broadband, proximity to a desireable school, distance from work etc etc).

The OP has 300k to spend on an investment.
I'd suggest they are going for the professional or corporate market- and in these type rentals- 1 beds are actually quite strong- but location is key above all else.

REM76

Mezcita wrote: »

Not quite comparing apples with apples though is it? Australia's grand but making the conscious decision to live a good 24 hours away from friends and family is a step too far for most people.

That old chestnut, the "support network".

Great, but my children grow up with mum at home in a beautiful house beside the beach in a beautiful city.

Although, that terraced house in Drimagh is sure appealing.

jive

REM76 wrote: »

That old chestnut, the "support network".

Great, but my children grow up with mum at home in a beautiful house beside the beach in a beautiful city.

Although, that terraced house in Drimagh is sure appealing.

There's more to life than the size of your house and proximity to the coastline, though.