Season 5 x 09: The Dance of Dragons - HAVE READ the books

Savage Tyrant

Xenji wrote: »

I still see it being Bran in the books, would take me ages to explain the reasoning though and the TV show looks likely it will have a different ending.

Interesting..... I havent even considered Bran for a second, though I did consider and like the idea of it being Rickon.

Washington Irving

Xenji wrote: »

I still see it being Bran in the books, would take me ages to explain the reasoning though and the TV show looks likely it will have a different ending.

It's been confirmed the TV show and books will have the same close. It's just how we get there that will change.

BlibBlab

Don't get this argument about the Iron Islanders, they're more or less based on the Vikings and noted for raiding coastal areas rather than fielding large standing armies.

Regarding who sits on the Iron Throne, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few characters sitting on it, but not for long

amos13

Savage Tyrant wrote:

Did anyone here, before this episode or still, believe that Stannis was ever going to make it to the endgame and be the King of Westeros in practice rather than by claim? I agree that as the situation stands, He is the true rightful King of Westeros, but I have never thought he would ever actually get to the Iron Throne itself... Just wondering how others had seen it both before and now after...

I thought there was a chance. As far as I know, AA or TPTWP weren't kings/queens? So if destiny is to repeat itself it and its Jon/ Dany to save the realm, they won't sit the throne. But now I'm beginning to think, will there even be an iron throne at the end?!?

GerB40

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Out of interest...

Did anyone here, before this episode or still, believe that Stannis was ever going to make it to the endgame and be the King of Westeros in practice rather than by claim?
I agree that as the situation stands, He is the true rightful King of Westeros, but I have never thought he would ever actually get to the Iron Throne itself... Just wondering how others had seen it both before and now after...

I did. It seemed too obvious that he was going to be king, especially with backing from the Iron Bank, that I figured he must be. With the Lannisters almost gone and the next possible claimant across in Essos I thought Stannis would get to be king, if only for a short time. But after burning his own daughter I doubt he'll get far past Winterfell. He's become a fanatic now, a pawn Milesandre will use until she's finished. Ragin, I liked Stannis...

GerB40

Washington Irving wrote: »

No king lives either. So even if he does reach the Iron Throne he'll end up the same as the rest of them soon after :pac:

Valar Morgulis bud...

Hyzepher

The only good place for a corkscrew is in the eye - hopefully Ramsey will get it this week.

I always thought that the true ruler of Westeros would be whoever successfully puts the realm ahead of themselves. Being prepared to put themselves aside to ensure the best for the kingdom will eventually identify the true king/queen.

MrWalsh

Hyzepher wrote: »

The only good place for a corkscrew is in the eye - hopefully Ramsey will get it this week.

I always thought that the true ruler of Westeros would be whoever successfully puts the realm ahead of themselves. Being prepared to put themselves aside to ensure the best for the kingdom will eventually identify the true king/queen.

Then surely it is Tormund Giantsbane

Nody

Hyzepher wrote: »

I always thought that the true ruler of Westeros would be whoever successfully puts the realm ahead of themselves. Being prepared to put themselves aside to ensure the best for the kingdomkill everyone who have a potential claim will eventually identify the true king/queen.

Fixed that for you to be more in line with GoT lore :P

NickD

I think that they are setting up StoneHeart and/ or her men to rescue Sansa next week. This theory is based on nothing more than how much they have crapped all over the books to date this season. I think SH will be in it and they are denying it to surprise us (whatever you are like a season too late.)

Cersi will do her nudie pants walk, Jon boy will get a stabbing. Maybe a bit of Stannis as well. He could attack WF while SH's dudes are attacking or some such.

Maybe?

amos13

NickD wrote:

Cersi will do her nudie pants walk, Jon boy will get a stabbing. Maybe a bit of Stannis as well. He could attack WF while SH's dudes are attacking or some such.

I don't understand why so many people are convinced Stannis will die in ep 10. Is it hoping out of anger over Shireen? I think he still has every chance of sitting the throne eventually. He's supposed to be the greatest military leader in all of westeros! He'll not be easily killed.

I'm a believer SH will be appearing too. Aside from the not too subtle episode name, I think it makes MUCH more sense for her to come in now than it did at the end of last season. And let's not forget, she's the only one left who's aware of the contents of Robb's will, and D&D made sure to put that into the show. They choose every scene very carefully. Why introduce us to the BwB and Beric Dondarion if not to use him at some point in the future? Otherwise that whole event was just filler.

Dyr

amos13 wrote: »

He's supposed to be the greatest military leader in all of westeros! He'll not be easily killed.

Great military leaders don't generally let 20 arseholes burn their entire supply of provisions and horses

How do you burn an army's worth of horses anyway?

MrWalsh

amos13 wrote: »

Why introduce us to the BwB and Beric Dondarion if not to use him at some point in the future? Otherwise that whole event was just filler.

They used the BwB and Beric Dondarrion to show the Red Woman that someone could be brought back to life by Thoros and also as a plot device to get Arya into the hands of the Hound.

I dont think we are getting LS at this stage - but maybe. It seems more likely to me that Brienne will step in and have a hand in Sansa rescue. I dont recall anything about Robbs will in the tv show?
Although I am suspicious about the rename to Lana of the Canals - sounds like it was done because Cat would be confusing with LS Cat - so maybe....

I think Stannis probably is dying soon though, Davos will be gunning for him even if he doesnt die at Winterfellmageddon.

Conall Cernach

Xenji wrote: »

I still see it being Bran in the books, would take me ages to explain the reasoning though and the TV show looks likely it will have a different ending.

I think Bran will stay in the North as some sort of protective force against the white walkers. Perhaps, at some stage, the Wall will be breached and he will "warg" the Wall to bolster its magic. According to the books he can see through the trees so maybe he can attune himself to whatever magic keeps the walkers out.

Mr Freeze

amos13 wrote: »

I don't understand why so many people are convinced Stannis will die in ep 10. Is it hoping out of anger over Shireen? I think he still has every chance of sitting the throne eventually. He's supposed to be the greatest military leader in all of westeros! He'll not be easily killed.

I agree with how good a military leader he is supposed to be, but that might not be the case in the show.

He might attack WF even though he is not prepared to attack it properly and due to blind faith thinks he can win anyways.

This might result in a loss.

Most likely the battle will not be resolved in the last episode.
Loads of peoples fates will be uncertain.

amos13

MrWalsh wrote:

They used the BwB and Beric Dondarrion to show the Red Woman that someone could be brought back to life by Thoros and also as a plot device to get Arya into the hands of the Hound.

I think the hound could have just been the one to come across her, rather than the BwB. But I know what you mean re. The red woman. Only thing is, she's not at the wall to be resurrecting anyone. Maybe SH won't be returning, but could the hooded rower be Thoros?

The show had an argument between Robb and Cat after they found out Sansa had been married to Tyrion. Robb legitimised and named Jon his heir so that the lannisters wouldn't get winterfell if he was killed. I have no recollection of who he gave the will to though...maybe someone else has a better memory?

I like the catch about the Cat/ Lanna name switch- never thought of that.

Useful.Idiot

I don't think Davos would be enraged enough at Stannis to kill him would he? I don't think Stannis will die next ep and I believe he can best the Boltons. Him realising everything he's done and sacrificed is all for nothing (if that happens) would be a moment in a later season I would think.

Going by episode synopsis it looks like we'll also be seeing a bit more of Dany & Drogon in last episode anyways.

LS would be completely cut from the show I would've thought.

Mr Freeze

amos13 wrote: »

The show had an argument between Robb and Cat after they found out Sansa had been married to Tyrion. Robb legitimised and named Jon his heir so that the lannisters wouldn't get winterfell if he was killed. I have no recollection of who he gave the will to though...maybe someone else has a better memory?

I think it could have been sent to Howland Reed.

MrWalsh

amos13 wrote: »

I think the hound could have just been the one to come across her, rather than the BwB.

Yes but they needed him to fight Beric Dondarrion to show Thoros bringing him back to life (as opposed to it just being the word of a drunken red priest).

Lord I cant remember any of that about Robbs will!!

They could still go with LS alright, but I feel the further it is from the Red Wedding the less likely that is. Plus the last episode is usually more of a "round up" rather than any major new developments. Actually given that it makes me wonder if they will do anything with Jon Snow til episode 1 of season 6.

amos13

MrWalsh wrote: »

They could still go with LS alright, but I feel the further it is from the Red Wedding the less likely that is.

True, I'm probably just a tragic optimist. I do think there are a few signs in the last few episodes that are a nod to her (Ramsey mentioning a Feast for Crows, Melisandres absence from the wall (meaning someone else will have to raise Jon), Arya's name change as you mentioned, the actual name of the episode being similar as one of her monikers (Mother Merciless) and there was one other thing I noticed on Sundays episode but I can't recall now) but maybe they're just doing those to mess with us.

MrWalsh wrote: »

Actually given that it makes me wonder if they will do anything with Jon Snow til episode 1 of season 6.

I think they've built up the tension with Ollie too much now to leave it til season 6, but then again predictability is the last of this show's traits!

Generic Dreadhead

I don't normally post here despite reading the books (which I don't like) and watching the show (Which I do like)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Jon ever actually confirmed as being 100% Dead in the books, seems like it was kind of a vague cliff hanger chapter end.... "something something and then the axe fell something", it was G.R.R.M at his rubbish-chapter-ending finest, the man can only seem to generate excitement through misleading-non-actual-deaths or shock-deaths... and this chapter stuck out to me as one of those that he can backtrack on now in both the book and show like "Oh now he wasn't actually killed, managed to sneak away to some other tower something something" - He did the same with Onion Knight remember in the books? He's Dead.... oh wait, no he got away somehow but I never told you that. AH-HA Got you Lolz!

So f**king glad we didn't have to suffer through that whole Across-the-Sea crap where the Dornish lads go on a bloody Post-Leaving cert trip, CNGF about any of them TBH.
Oh whats that? There's a tall sandy haired fellow, a short sneaky rat faced fellow, a quiet noble? Woweee. Fantasy fiction originality at it's finest there

Doubt we'll see any of the whole SH thing, thankfully, as that whole angle was just terrible.... just really phoned in and cheap.
If it happened now, many of the non-book readers will just think "Ah f**k this show, they're just gonna bring back main characters as zombies now"

I also don't really miss the whole Iron Islands stuff from the books, too many more new people by then (though I imagine they will feature next season).

Also don't miss the whole trying to turn the Eerie/Vale into some sort of cautious-political minefield.

I have to say I'm much preferring the show now as it's a lot leaner. I have to wonder when the next book will come out though as he's talking YEARS to write the series and the whole this is meant to be wrapped up by end of Season 8 (apparently)

It'll be interesting next season cause almost all the pieces are now moved into place with what I can recall in the books (it's been 4 years since I finished them).

I think all we're missing is Iron Islands, something something Six-Skins, Arya being Arya, Brienne getting offed somehow for shock value (probably happen this week actually as he and Ramsay kill each other or something), Maybe more in the Vale, Sam going to Old Town (hopefully the show will gloss over the token 15 new characters we're supposed to learn and care about), Some stuff in Quarth for the sake of it, Dany being Dany. Maybe Godfrey will reappear with the BwB

Looking back on Series 1 it's amazing to think how much I dislike Dany, Arya and Bran now. Stannis and Sansa are rather annoyingly typical of their character type but those other are just f**king stubborn and narrow mined and have lost all traits of endearing personality.

I'm rooting for the bad guys now pretty much... More Uncle Kevin, Bronn etc etc :pac:

/rant
/speculaion

Mickeroo

No Jon's death wasn't confirmed, would be very surprised if he was dead. Like you said, Martin pulls that trick with the ambiguous chapter ending all the time.

Brienne isn't dead either in the books btw.

Generic Dreadhead

Mickeroo wrote: »

No Jon's death wasn't confirmed, would be very surprised if he was dead. Like you said, Martin pulls that trick with the ambiguous chapter ending all the time.

Brienne isn't dead either in the books btw.

Yeah AFAIK, (again it was 4 years ago) it was like "And then the rope dropped and she was like looking lady stone heart in the eyes as her last breath escaped her lungs"

Now... "Surprise mo-fos, that was only her last breath before she totes fainted, she's grand"

Mickeroo

Cormac... wrote: »

Yeah AFAIK, (again it was 4 years ago) it was like "And then the rope dropped and she was like looking lady stone heart in the eyes as her last breath escaped her lungs"

Now... "Surprise mo-fos, that was only her last breath before she totes fainted, she's grand"

Yeah, much the same trick he's likely pulled with Jon, though did it not have Brienne meeting Jaimie after the part where SH was going to hang her?

Generic Dreadhead

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah, much the same trick he's likely pulled with Jon, though did it not have Brienne meeting Jaimie after the part where SH was going to hang her?

Can't remember, I can see him killing Jon off and bringing Cat back as turning people off the series.

Jon is one of the only likeable Good guys/Paramours/Throne Claimants (maybe) left in the series.

Oh I also reckon Stannis is gonna go full mad-targaryn like Aegon now and thats why we had to watch that scene.

Can Mesliandre send in a ghost/shade/shadow thingy now to Winterfell, wasn't that whole point of getting Queens blood

amos13

Cormac... wrote:

Yeah AFAIK, (again it was 4 years ago) it was like "And then the rope dropped and she was like looking lady stone heart in the eyes as her last breath escaped her lungs"

I thought it was something like just before she could breath no more she screamed out a word (SH had given her a choice, but we don't know what choice she made). She was alive I thought, riding off with Jamie who's then not seen again for the rest of the books. I think Jamie's brown bread soon actually. Can't fight for muck with that hand and the show made sure to show how crap a fighter he is now.

Mr Freeze

Cormac... wrote: »

Can Mesliandre send in a ghost/shade/shadow thingy now to Winterfell, wasn't that whole point of getting Queens blood

That would be cool actually, if she did. But she needs Stannis' ahem seed to make another Shadow assassin I believe.

And doing so, in the books at least seemed to age Stannis greatly and it took a bit out of Mel too.
He isn't fit to help produce another Shadow Assassin and it must also have something to do with him being a King, since if Stannis wasn't fit, I'm sure one of the army lads would volunteer.

I think burning Shireen can only bring about favourable conditions so that they can move forward and not freeze to death.

Much like burning Stannis' previous hand supposedly granted strong winds to blow them to the wall. Of course, this could have been total coincidence too.

mewso

Ah now come on Jon may not be dead but it was quite clear it would take something special for him to survive that situation. How many times was he stabbed? I have a sneaking suspicion the show will just have olly stabbing him and leaving much more doubt than the books of the is he or isn't he variety. They have removed factors like Mel being there in the books so her resurrecting him is less likely, warging is out of the question too since the tv show loves to signpost these things and they have not once implied he can do this. All we are left with is one wound which he recovers from or god forbid white walker shenanigans.

I love some of the theories. Bran to become King. Will he rule from under the tree he has merged with? Also how anyone thinks the show is better than the books is beyond me particularly after this season.

Dyr

mewso wrote: »

Also how anyone thinks the show is better than the books is beyond me particularly after this season.

its not but that's not a ringing endorsement of the books either

Nody

//MOD

People this is a thread for discussion of episode 9; not the whole series or the author in general...

//MOD