Season 5 x 09: The Dance of Dragons - HAVE READ the books

YouKnowNothing

Plot twist :

Jon stabs Ollie

amos13

Is there an ep10 predictions thread? Can't find it if there is...

Turtyturd

I don't get the big focus on the hooded figure from the previous episode, his face was shown in one scene, it's not some big mystery character.

As for Rob's Will, not sure about the show but I always thought it was traveling with Ned's bones in the books. Explains Catelyn's desire to get to them as it would guarantee it safe passage back to the north, and would also explain why Lady Distin is eager to see them.

amos13

Turtyturd wrote:

As for Rob's Will, not sure about the show but I always thought it was traveling with Ned's bones in the books. Explains Catelyn's desire to get to them as it would guarantee it safe passage back to the north, and would also explain why Lady Distin is eager to see them.

But how could it be travelling with his bones? Ned died long before Robb. There's no explanation for Cats desire to see her husbands bones returned other than the natural desire for someone to want their loved ones body back for burial.

Paddy Cow

Haven't read the whole thread, so maybe this has been answered by why would Doran send not only Myrcella but also his son back to King's Landing?? Myrcella was basically a hostage and a massive political tool and by sending Doran's son, doesn't that basically make him pawn? I know Doran wants him on the counsel but the kid is young and Kings Landing will eat him up. It would make a bit more sense is the two were to marry before returning.

Nody

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Haven't read the whole thread, so maybe this has been answered by why would Doran send not only Myrcella but also his son back to King's Landing?? Myrcella was basically a hostage and a massive political tool and by sending Doran's son, doesn't that basically make him pawn? I know Doran wants him on the counsel but the kid is young and Kings Landing will eat him up. It would make a bit more sense is the two were to marry before returning.

In the TV series they recognize that as well but no answer on how they plan to solve it; in the books they simply had the party delayed by throwing parties everywhere stopping them from basically leaving.

RobbingBandit

Doran knows Jamie is Myrcellas father, he sent Ellaria in to question Jamie about his relationship with Cersei possibly to use it as leverage to bind Jamie into protecting Prince Trystane, maybe Bronn will become his bodyguard next season.

December2012

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Doran knows Jamie is Myrcellas father, he sent Ellaria in to question Jamie about his relationship with Cersei possibly to use it as leverage to bind Jamie into protecting Prince Trystane, maybe Bronn will become his bodyguard next season.

Yeah she straight out called Myrcella his daughter!

Mr Freeze

December2012 wrote: »

Yeah she straight out called Myrcella his daughter!

Ya the Dornish have been referring to her as Lannister this whole season instead of Baratheon.

MrWalsh

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya the Dornish have been referring to her as Lannister this whole season instead of Baratheon.

And are happy for her to marry their crown prince.

Jofspring

There must surely be something much bigger coming from Doran than just an alliance. If thats all that comes of all those Dorne scenes then it was a huge waste of time.

It's hard to see where they are going with it at the moment. Some kind of a show down could still be on the cards for Hotah and Bronn/Jamie or there again Hotah has basically been a wasted character.

Conall Cernach

Jofspring wrote: »

There must surely be something much bigger coming from Doran than just an alliance. If thats all that comes of all those Dorne scenes then it was a huge waste of time.

It's hard to see where they are going with it at the moment. Some kind of a show down could still be on the cards for Hotah and Bronn/Jamie or there again Hotah has basically been a wasted character.

Presumably Doran will arrange for Tommen to be bumped off, before he begets an heir, then place Myrcella on the throne with Trystane as her consort. The long term goal would probably be for Myrcella to follow her brothers eventually unless Trystane really does have feelings for her.

FunLover18

Conall Cernach wrote:

Presumably Doran will arrange for Tommen to be bumped off, before he begets an heir, then place Myrcella on the throne with Trystane as her consort. The long term goal would probably be for Myrcella to follow her brothers eventually unless Trystane really does have feelings for her.

That sounds plausible. Any children and future heirs born of said marriage would be Martells

I'm obviously very late to the party. I had written out the most of this TL:DR on Monday but got side-tracked, may as well post it anyway if anyone's interested in reading...

I'm surprised by some of the criticisms at that climactic scene in the fighting pits. I didn't notice much wrong with the CGI, at least not enough to take me out of the scene. I felt a genuine threat against Dany and her entourage, and the moment when the crowd turned and put on the Harpy masks gave me some chills. The fact that literally anyone you walk past on the street in Meereen could be a cold-blooded killer effectively adds to the threat of the SOTH in my opinion, rather than being an easily identifiable enemy seen coming from afar.

I didn't expect Jorah to survive this episode, let alone get to live out his dream of defending Dany and being once again accepted by her, the scene was as much his as Drogon/Dany's IMO. Drogon landing in and tearing shít up had me on the edge of my seat, and I was actually impressed with the CGI until Dany took flight. By then, it really didn't affect my viewing experience too much.

One thing about Drogon though, he got worryingly close to being speared to death. He is supposed to be the strongest of the 3 dragons which will be vital to Dany's cause in Westeros? I can only assume that Drogon is still a work in progress, and by the time he grows to his full size the spears will look like acupuncture needles compared to his size or simply bounce off him.

Of course, I do see some noticeable flaws myself, and the Unsullied have been a major let down this season. There were 10,000 of them at one stage, right? It seems that since they entered Meereen, many of them have drifted off or are spending too much downtime in the bars and brothels and are a bit hungover and distracted when clocking in for Khaleesi protection duty. I really don't feel their heart is in the job anymore, it's only a means for them to earn cuddle money at this point. Whatever about the SOTH getting the upper edge on the Unsullied in a street ambush earlier this season, Dany's security detail should have been more prepared and educated for any future battles including one in an open combat arena. In short, they have been noticeably and inexplicably weakened to suit the story.

Moving elsewhere, I was content with the Bravos scenes. I won't be buying Mace Tyrell's 4-Track when it drops, but admire his enthusiasm for singing all the same. There's no denying it, the "too old" scene made me squirm, but I feel it was necessary to reinforce the fact with some forgetful viewers that Meryn Trant is a disgusting bastard after a few seasons of he playing a quiet background character. Had Arya merely followed him down a dark alley after seeing him get off the boat and killed him then, it would have been way too convenient and bear only a fraction of the impact it would have now that we have been reminded of the character's personality and tendencies. After pledging to Ja'aqan that the Thin Man would be dead 'tomorrow' and with her plans for Meryn Trant, Arya will have to go full Assassin's Creed in the next episode to achieve all of her goals. I don't see this happening, with the girl's Thin Man mission suffering in favour of Arya Stark's revenge quest. Her punishment? After losing sight of her main goals in her new life, the consequences will fit her crime.

Is that the end of Dorne now for this season? It all just amounted to 'meh' if so. Prince Doran is a decent character and played well, but most of the scenes there felt like they belonged to a different show. It felt like Jaime and Bronn were just as likely to bump into Aladdin and Jafar as anyone else while on their travels there.

Maybe they could have made the quest worth while with Jaime finding out that Cersei sent him there under false pretenses and the necklace death threat was a hoax, but chose not to go that route. And that stipulation of Trystane's to secure Bronn's freedom? It would have been interesting to see Bronn paired with one of the sand snakes in a marriage of good faith. Whatever about the dreadful street fight scene a few episodes, Bronn and Tyene had some decent scenes since and a bit of chemistry. Earlier in the season, Bronn was a bit unsatisfied with his new life as a man married to the lesser, not-so-bright or beautiful sister of a weakened house. For he to end up with Tyene, a kindred fighting soul from a powerful house in an exotic land, not to mention "the most beautiful woman in the world", would have suited the character. Instead it all just amounted to a punchline, quite literally. This season's Dorne produced a good showing from Alexander Siddig as Doran and that's about it. I don't think that the whole thing was worth it in place of the Ironborn storyline, or Jaime going to the Riverlands instead.

The scenes at Castle Black did the bare minimum in terms of keeping things ticking over until next week's 'For The Watch', but after last week's conclusion were a bit of a disappointment overall. While a few Brothers watched the Wildings pass through the gate, Jon should have summoned a council with Thorne and the rest given the recent events at Hardhomme. Jon: Ok guys, shít just got real. I lost a staredown with the Night's fúcking King, he looked like an evil son of a bitch. I gave him my best 'We'll meet again' look, he merely raised his arms and 1,000 of the recently slaughtered with them. I didn't know what to do so just turned around, slouched down and pretended that I didn't see him".

Instead we got another grimace from Olly the serial scowler and "You've got a good heart..." from Thorne. I can't help but feel that line could be some more of that foreshadowing that has been brooding. Maybe that is where the first knife will land next week and it will be Thorne to do it. If it's Olly to initiate the deed, Olly who doesn't give a shít about the Watch really and just wants to avenge his parents, that will be a major letdown and possibly the TV equivalent of a 'book throwing' moment for me. If it is indeed for the watch, it has to be Thorne to start it IMO.

Finally, the burning alive of an innocent child by her father. This episode had it all didn't it? Pedophilia, child homicide, just another week on GoT. First off, just how good were those 20 men of Ramsey's? Were they Level 100 Fire Mages also? Because I saw numerous fires start simultaneously, but no sign of any arsonists making their escape in the wide-shot of Stannis' camp igniting. I understand the producers wanted to get that scene over and done with to move onto the bigger picture events, but it all seemed a bit too easy and perfect for Ramsey.

As for the demise of Shireen; I don't believe that Davos knew what lay ahead for the young princess like other viewers do. I think his drawn out goodbye was because of the unpredictability of the days ahead which lie on the brink of a war. I only think this because I remember back in Season 2 when Davos went to great, treasonous lengths to free Gendry from his fiery fate. Gendry was a relative stranger, Davos loves Shireen like a daughter. It will be interesting to see Davos' reaction whenever that may happen.

I haven't much to say about the scene itself. It was hard to believe what was going down onscreen. Like another poster said in either this thread or the other; It was like watching Ned's execution. Even though you knew in your heart the outcome, you thought until the very last second that someone or something would intervene and save the day. Shireen's screams were haunting and I'm now torn between wanting Stannis to succeed or die a horrible death.

If he dies, like my hopes are swaying towards, then Shireen's death will have been all for nothing. If he succeeds, then he doesn't die the slow death that I currently want him to but maybe his daughter's death was worth something. I think his days are numbered though and in the grand scheme of things, Stannis will not get anywhere near the Iron Throne.

Apparently these are the last few days before the internet breaks. Hopefully it will break in a good way, and not in a way that leads to HBO not renewing the show beyond a 6th season because of negative reaction and viewers switching off. I'm interested to see how they handle 'For The Watch' but for some reason am not feeling too confident about it. F**k you for that Olly.

Sleepy

I think this episode was the setup for Davos to kill Stannis. GRRM is always quoting William Faulkner: 'The only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself' and this conflict perfectly manifests in the die-hard loyalty Davos has for his king, versus wanting retribution against the man who killed his princess.

I haven't seen episode 10 yet but if it's not there, I hope I get to see this next season. There'll be far more emotional heft to Davos twisting the knife than Brienne hacking his head off.

MrWalsh

Sleepy wrote: »

I haven't seen episode 10 yet but if it's not there, I hope I get to see this next season. There'll be far more emotional heft to Davos twisting the knife than Brienne hacking his head off.

Agree. Am having to mostly stay off the internet today until I see ep 10. I predict Stannis will still be alive at the end of it though.

Mr Freeze

stankratz wrote: »

Apparently these are the last few days before the internet breaks. Hopefully it will break in a good way, and not in a way that leads to HBO not renewing the show beyond a 6th season because of negative reaction and viewers switching off. I'm interested to see how they handle 'For The Watch' but for some reason am not feeling too confident about it. F**k you for that Olly.

There's no evidence of viewers turning off yet is there?

It's definitely the weakest season yet, that is probably due to the dire changes they have made.

But I don't see many people turning off, but I wouldn't blame them for doing so. I wish I could ditch the show after episode 9. But I know I can't, I love the books and cause of them I watch the show.

Jofspring

I reckon episodes 8,9 and potentially episode 10 have saved the show.

I was talking amongst a few friends recently. Myself and one friend had read the books and felt they were making a balls of it since going their own way with the show but the 2 non book readers thought the show has been a bit slow but still brilliant. This was up as far as episode 7 at the time.

Mr Freeze

^ And I would say the opposite, book reader and non book reader friends reckon bar the hardhome scene its been poor.

And stannis and non stannis fans reckon the burning was a complete joke.

That said, the viewing figures for ep 9 were very high, only beaten by episode 1 of Season 5.

So HBO will see this season as a huge positive despite what us complainers on the internet type.

MrWalsh

My ancedotal experience varies.

A few non book readers have expressed that they are finding certain storylines boring (Arya or as my butcher commented "whats the story with yer woman and her bloody cockles and mussels, its rubbish!").

Others I know think its just as good as its always been, albeit a bit slow.

walshb

Without doubt the weakest season. Complete abandonment of intrigue and dialogue for the sake of OTT shock and violence. Very out of place in most instances. The pacing was off for the season.

As for that scene of Oberin's daughter in the cell flashing herself and asking "who's the prettiest girl"? FFS, ridiculous!