Swim races being cut/curtailed... can anything be done?

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

That's the nub of the issue. There are people entering races who must believe they are decent swimmers based on a week by the pool in the Costa del Sol, and a wetsuit. There are no checks on their ability, no incentive for them to test their OW capability before a race. That's hardly a safe way to run a race; or at least you could say it could be made safer.

The more who enter, and who enjoy OW swimming, the better (as far as I'm concerned). Water safety, and cost of water safety, is no doubt an issue for race organisers and for TI. There are a growing number of OW classes being held all over Ireland, by qualified coaches, and any one of these novice swimmers would be well served by preparing for race season by doing a one-day course with any of these. The novice would understand their OW abilities a bit better, the beginner would hone their OW skills and thus race better, the race organisers would know safety parameters for their race have tightened, and everyone would be more likely to swim the advertised race course. Having experienced swimmers will lessen the need for water safety on the day (I've seen several races where a kayak is needed straight after race start), and lessen the need for race-day changes for organisers.

If OW safety really is such a priority to TI, then let it be certified in such as way as to make it useful. The current system benefits no-one except the non-swimmer who wants to enter a race without the requisite training.

Does anyone who has been in the sport more than five years have any faith in TI in any regard?

Kurt_Godel

tunney wrote: »

Does anyone who has been in the sport more than five years have any faith in TI in any regard?

Those in the sport >5yrs may be jaded and resigned;), but those in <5yrs keep the faith... the temperature rules coming down to more sensible levels are a very good start. Lower temp rules mean more races go ahead as planned- thats a big plus safety wise, as race organisers get to work to the detailed Plan A rather than the rushed Plan B.

woody1

probably over simplified and very naive but what about a publicity push from t.i. and the clubs / races, that swimming in a lake river sea whatever is not the same as pool swimming and just because you can do 30 lengths of your pool does not mean youl find swimming in open water comfortable and or are neccessarily able for it.. lost revenue i know, scaring people away..

some kind of notice to be on all race websites, t.i's site , standardised big notice about o/w swimming at the actual race regs. etc..

if a race has potential for rough conditions then that should be stated somewhere very clearly, might make those that are nervous / weak swimmers think twice ..

when we did the boyne swim last year, there was a strong enough emphasis on having had done a minimum distance in the preceding month and they wanted to know our swimming history, they were making the point fairly strongly that this was a long swim in a river and again just because you could swim x distance in a pool didnt mean you were able for it ( as it turned out it was downstream and handy but thats not the point ) , of course you can just bluff all this and some people will ,

yeah having read that back it is very naive but im going to leave it here and maybe someone can improve / expand on it , or most likely blow it out of the water

catweazle

I went skiing a few years ago for the first time, started on the blue slopes and chanced a few red on the last day - i wouldn't have dreamed going near a black course

Clearly there are easier swims out there for beginners, Loughrea, Swinford and Athy spring to mind, these should be classified as blue

Harder swims or those more effected by bad weather should be classified in a different colour.

This will get around TI's reluctance to risk any drop in membership or one day licenses however most race organizers will not want to be classified as a difficult swim as it will effect their numbers.

JohnBee

What about swim stroke?

What are people's opinions on those doing back stroke or breast stroke, we have all seen them!

I accept that starting off I had a couple of treading water breaks doing my first open water, but competently completed it in 18 minutes. However when I see people doing non-freestyle, it occurs to me that these are people who haven't done any training and are just putting themselves and the race in a position of needless risk.

To me this whole issue is not a threat but an opportunity. Why doesn't TI create a framework for swim assessments? They could set standards and allow clubs perhaps to administer. EG each club should be able to set up swim assessments for novices for a small fee. Would created income for clubs and also advertisement and a way to entice new members. Additionally it might actually be reassuring for novices to get some sort of assessment and thus ease their fears prior to their first race. Obviously those that can provide evidence from previous triathlon races would be exempt.

griffin100

A non front crawl stroke is not an indication of lack of swim competency. Front crawl might be the quickest stroke but there are many reasons why you might choose to use another stroke. I've no problems with competent (that word again) breast strokers, a good breast stroke can be faster than a mediocre front crawl. The only issue I'd have with breast stroke is that it's not suitable for a crowded swim due to the wide leg kick. Back crawl on the other hand whilst fine to some degree in a managed pool race setting is risky if used in a busy ow environment as you can't see were you're going - although I once watched a swimmer back stroke 500m in an ow race in a canal - she waited until everyone was ahead of her and then completed the course on her back no bother. The key issue is competency.

griffin100

catweazle wrote: »

I went skiing a few years ago for the first time, started on the blue slopes and chanced a few red on the last day - i wouldn't have dreamed going near a black course

Clearly there are easier swims out there for beginners, Loughrea, Swinford and Athy spring to mind, these should be classified as blue

Harder swims or those more effected by bad weather should be classified in a different colour.

This will get around TI's reluctance to risk any drop in membership or one day licenses however most race organizers will not want to be classified as a difficult swim as it will effect their numbers.

Actually I think that's a great and very simple idea. Rate swims against set variables and assign a rating. The higher the rating potentially the harder the swim but also the less likely it will be cancelled as a high level of swim competency will be assumed.

woody1

griffin100 wrote: »

A non front crawl stroke is not an indication of lack of swim competency. Front crawl might be the quickest stroke but there are many reasons why you might choose to use another stroke. I've no problems with competent (that word again) breast strokers, a good breast stroke can be faster than a mediocre front crawl. The only issue I'd have with breast stroke is that it's not suitable for a crowded swim due to the wide leg kick. Back crawl on the other hand whilst fine to some degree in a managed pool race setting is risky if used in a busy ow environment as you can't see were you're going - although I once watched a swimmer back stroke 500m in an ow race in a canal - she waited until everyone was ahead of her and then completed the course on her back no bother. The key issue is competency.

wish i could do any kind of a breastroke, it wouldve saved me from a dnf at the weekend, the ability to do a few strokes of breastroke to check your sighting , get a decent breath etc shouldnt be underrated.. a girl lost her hat and goggles in the metalman and got around breaststroking,

think something along the lines of catweazles idea or something similar would be a good start.. ie rate the swims difficulty,

EC1000

catweazle wrote: »

Clearly there are easier swims out there for beginners, Loughrea, Swinford and Athy spring to mind, these should be classified as blue

Harder swims or those more effected by bad weather should be classified in a different colour.

Generally true. Swim courses are a fickle thing though. I did Kilkee last year in glorious weather and it was a joy. Other times times it can be a tough place to swim if not confident. The weather plays a massive role in things - even in lake swims.

I say let swims go ahead and let people use their own judgement as to whether they take part. Offer everyone the chance to bike and run regardless of whether they swim or not so they get to do something. We should place more emphasis on Darwinism.

mossym

EC1000 wrote: »

Generally true. Swim courses are a fickle thing though. I did Kilkee last year in glorious weather and it was a joy. Other times times it can be a tough place to swim if not confident. The weather plays a massive role in things - even in lake swims.

.

yup, this. Kilkee 2013 vs 2014 was like two different places. stood on shore in 2013 watching folks trying to swim up the face of swells. 2014 it was calmer than lough derg for some of the OW swims i did last year. it's not a bad idea but it's very tough to put a meaningful ranking in place that isn't hugely restrictive becuase it has to consider worst case weather conditions

Oryx

I swam at our usual beach last night, generally its a millpond; last night it was massive breakers and a strong current. 7 started, all confident swimmers, 5 got out after the turnaround as it was such a slog to get anywhere against the current. Had this been a race situation with 100+ people unfamiliar with the location, it would have been dangerous - we even struggled to spot one of our group who had swam off course and there were so few of us. Undoubtedly even average swimmers could have completed this swim, if they absolutely had to, but I wouldn't like to be the one responsible for the safety of a whole race pack in those conditions even if they all presented competency certs.