Walking german shephard around estate with no leash

FrancieK2

Hi I'm looking for advice. There's a man in our estate in Saggart walking his german shephard around every day with no lead and no muzzle, as required by the control of Dogs act. It's an estate with a lot of young kids and toddlers around playing, and it makes a lot of the mums and kids very nervous to see this huge animal running around with no leash.

I don't want to chown the guy because first of all you have to deal with this tiger sized animal he has with him and secondly anyone walking a dog around like this is likely to be anti-social in my opinion.

What to do?

Kristopherus

How many kids/adults/other dogs has that dog attacked?

kylith

Yes, you are correct that GSDs should be walked on lead and muzzled as per BSL.

Personally I prefer seeing RBs off-lead like any other dog. I find it sad that all members of a breed should be condemned to never run free because of a very few unsocialised and badly owned dogs. In my experience far from being antisocial the people I see walking their dogs like this are friendly and approachable.

In my experience this 'tiger sized' dog (11' long? That's a hell of a Shep!) is unlikely to be a barrier to approaching this man and asking politely if he wouldn't mind keeping it on-lead when there are kids around.

FrancieK2

I don't know. If it had attacked some child or another dog I'm sure something would have been done already. As it is, it's illegal and frightening for the residents who have small kids.

muddypaws

FrancieK2 wrote: »

I don't know. If it had attacked some child or another dog I'm sure something would have been done already. As it is, it's illegal and frightening for the residents who have small kids.

You're right, it is illegal. For absolutely no reason what so ever but yep, you're right unfortunately. So is speeding, and far more dangerous to small kids in housing estates, just as a matter of interest, do you approach speeding drivers, or report them?

Is it definitely a German Shepherd though? If its a Belgian Shepherd, then it isn't illegal.

Danjamin1

FrancieK2 wrote: »

and secondly anyone walking a dog around like this is likely to be anti-social in my opinion.

What to do?

What an awfully judgmental opinion to have, why not try approaching the man politely?

FrancieK2

kylith wrote: »

Yes, you are correct that GSDs should be walked on lead and muzzled as per BSL.

Personally I prefer seeing RBs off-lead like any other dog. I find it sad that all members of a breed should be condemned to never run free because of a very few unsocialised and badly owned dogs. In my experience far from being antisocial the people I see walking their dogs like this are friendly and approachable.

In my experience this 'tiger sized' dog (11' long? That's a hell of a Shep!) is unlikely to be a barrier to approaching this man and asking politely if he wouldn't mind keeping it on-lead when there are kids around.

I agree with you a large animal like that needs to run free, but a housing estate common area is not the place to do that. The animal probably isn't dangerous, unless I guess some kid grabs and bites it, as toddlers are sometimes do, even to other toddlers. But the potential to cause harm and the actual fear it causes in others are the reasons such animals are required to be on a lead and muzzled. I would have thought the owner of such an animal would not consider themselves above the law.

FrancieK2

Danjamin1 wrote: »

What an awfully judgmental opinion to have, why not try approaching the man politely?

When I see someone breaking the law, I make a judgement about them - that they are lawbreakers, and laws are required to regulate society for the good of all. Awfully judgemental? Pretty logical I would have thought.

bbability

The dog should be on a lead in a housing estate especially if there are young children around. If the owner wants to excerise the dog off the lead he should go somewhere else with the dog like a field or a bog.

FrancieK2

muddypaws wrote: »

You're right, it is illegal. For absolutely no reason what so ever but yep, you're right unfortunately. So is speeding, and far more dangerous to small kids in housing estates, just as a matter of interest, do you approach speeding drivers, or report them?

Is it definitely a German Shepherd though? If its a Belgian Shepherd, then it isn't illegal.

Yes, I have reported a driver speeding in the estate. It's extremely dangerous to do so. As a matter of interest, do you believe Dog owners should be above the law? Do you have young children?

Danjamin1

FrancieK2 wrote: »

When I see someone breaking the law, I make a judgement about them - that they are lawbreakers, and laws are required to regulate society for the good of all. Awfully judgemental? Pretty logical I would have thought.

OK but in this case you've made the judgment of the person based on the breed of dog they own, that's why I consider it awfully judgmental. The dog should be kept on a leash but there's no need to presume the person is prone to anti-social behaviour because of the breed of the dog.

Danjamin1

Actually my apologies, I may have misread the initial text, I thought you were presuming anyone with a German Shepherd is anti-social, I see you were referring more to the lack of a lead and muzzle more so than the type of dog

muddypaws

FrancieK2 wrote: »

Yes, I have reported a driver speeding in the estate. It's extremely dangerous to do so. As a matter of interest, do you believe Dog owners should be above the law? Do you have young children?

No, I don't think dog owners should be above the law, neither should other people, such as car drivers. More children are hurt by cars each year than by dogs, so its great that you have reported a speeding driver, and obviously have never gone above the speed limit yourself, as that would be putting yourself above the law. I ask again, are you sure it is definitely a German Shepherd dog, and not a Belgian Shepherd dog, as if it is a Belgian, then he is doing nothing illegal.

No, thankfully my kids are now grown up I'm not sure why that is relevant, unless you think only people with small kids care about their health and well being?

Approach the dog owner, or phone the dog warden.

FrancieK2

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Actually my apologies, I may have misread the initial text, I thought you were presuming anyone with a German Shepherd is anti-social, I see you were referring more to the lack of a lead and muzzle more so than the type of dog

No problem Danjamin, yes its the lack of lead more than anything, I'm not making any assumption about the owner just because of the breed.

FrancieK2

muddypaws wrote: »

No, I don't think dog owners should be above the law, neither should other people, such as car drivers. More children are hurt by cars each year than by dogs, so its great that you have reported a speeding driver, and obviously have never gone above the speed limit yourself, as that would be putting yourself above the law. I ask again, are you sure it is definitely a German Shepherd dog, and not a Belgian Shepherd dog, as if it is a Belgian, then he is doing nothing illegal.

No, thankfully my kids are now grown up I'm not sure why that is relevant, unless you think only people with small kids care about their health and well being?

Approach the dog owner, or phone the dog warden.

The relevance of my question about young children is in respect to the lack of relevance of your comments about cars in a thread where I am asking for advice about dogs. A Belgian it is not.

tk123

Ok so you have a bunch of people with an irrational fear of this man and his dog. If the dog is muzzled that fear will escalate - he must be dangerous because he has a muzzle on etc etc. Why not educate the kids on how they should/shouldn't interact with the dog - you'd be doing that man, his dog and every other dog owner a HUGE favor. I say that as the owner of a dog who has gone from bulletproof to terrified of some kids because of their inappropriate attempted interactions with her. She was on lead for all of them too btw - if only the parents had the same control over their kids.


https://suzcur.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/sy18x24greetpostersm.jpg

Tiddlypeeps

Any dog that will walk beside it's owner when off the lead instead of darting off to sniff everything in sight is a reasonably well trained dog. Your fears that the dog will fight back if a child bites it are only reasonable if the owner ever lets the dog get close enough to a child for the child to hurt it in the first place. If this is not something the owner ever lets happen then your fears are unreasonable.

You are right tho, it is illegal. But as far as I know it is not very well enforced so if you want anything to be done about it then your best bet is to politely approach the owner and ask if they wouldn't mind keeping the dog on a lead when it's near kids. They may not even be aware they are breaking the law.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieK2 wrote: »

Hi I'm looking for advice. There's a man in our estate in Saggart walking his german shephard around every day with no lead and no muzzle, as required by the control of Dogs act. It's an estate with a lot of young kids and toddlers around playing, and it makes a lot of the mums and kids very nervous to see this huge animal running around with no leash.

I don't want to chown the guy because first of all you have to deal with this tiger sized animal he has with him and secondly anyone walking a dog around like this is likely to be anti-social in my opinion.

What to do?

There's your problem right there.

Miaireland

Whether we like it or not, if the dog is required by law to be on a lead and muzzle then it should be. Whether the OP approaches speeding drivers or reports them is not relevant to this thread.

If there is a resident association you could request that they send him a note.

You could contact your local Dog Warden and ask that they have a word with him (I would guess your local city/county council would be able to give you their number)

You could also report this to the Gardai and ask them to have a word.

He not be antisocial person to be fair. He could just be one of those people who believe their dog would not hurt a fly.

andreac

I feel sorry for the poor dog and owner getting victimised for doing nothing wrong apart from go out on a little walk. Would be worse if the poor dog was kept locked up all day.

ForestFire

I know this is the animal form but:-

Kristopherus wrote: »

How many kids/adults/other dogs has that dog attacked?

It only takes one attack to serious injure/kill a toddler. There is a reason why there are laws for certain dog breeds, family members (kids) have been killed by dogs in the past that just turn for some reason (kids fault or not is irrelevant, kids are kids)

Not saying this dog would ever do this, but a dog can switch in a second for a number of reasons (Hit by a ball/protection of owner).

And someone else said, why not educate kids about how to interact with dogs...why does this always come up...people know that we live in a society were humans have the greater rights than dogs and while it is probably good to teach children about all sorts of dangers it should not be the "potential" victims onus to do this? Similar to - How not to get hit by a flying drone flying around the estate.

It should be the owners responsibility to ensure everyone is safe and to follow the law (Dogs and drones), and assume they do not all have PHD's in animal behavioral studies (or drone aerodynamics)

andreac wrote: »

I feel sorry for the poor dog and owner getting victimised for doing nothing wrong apart from go out on a little walk. Would be worse if the poor dog was kept locked up all day.

As others have pointed out it is illegal not to have the dog on a lease with muzzle ..should be as simple as that really?

ihatewinter

A few children get bitten, it's reported on every media outlet and them certain dogs are deemed dangerous. Then you have certain groups calling for them to be restrained or banned

When I was a child in the 90's early 2000's, dogs running wild in estates was rampant and normal. Now if a dog is without a lead, people are screaming for the dog to be banned.

Plus I have notice children are more afraid on dogs and animals in general. They scream and run away when they see a dog, could it be something to do with over protective parents instructing them not to go near a dog at all and all dogs are dangerous and will bite etc.

andreac

ForestFire wrote: »

I know this is the animal form but:-



As others have pointed out it is illegal not to have the dog on a lease with muzzle ..should be as simple as that really?

Yes but what im saying, the dog or owner hasn't done anything as such to warrant this worry? It's not like he has attacked or caused any issues with other dogs or people, so really, what is the problem?

tinytot1994

I have a German shepherd and she is the most playful yet well behaved dog. Before I had gotten her I would never have thought of getting this breed but I am glad I did. They are a highly intelligent breed and it is slightly unfair that they have to be muzzled as if she is attacked she cannot defend herself or protect herself which is putting both me and her in danger. For example I was walking her on a quiet country road a few months back and a sheepdog and terrier came out of a field and attacked her resulting in her getting stitches and I ended up being attacked trying to protect her as she couldn't protect herself because she was wearing this muzzle. If they are making a few rules for every dog to muzzle then in my opinion every dog should have to wear a muzzle. People are very quick to pass judgement on this breed and it isn't fair. I don't see this man doing any harm in what he is doing yes he should have a lead on his dog and yes he should have a muzzle on this dog but I guarantee you that people wouldn't be so judgemental if it was a terrier or a smaller dog that was off the lead.

La.m

Just an FYI, if the roads and services for the estate haven't been taken in charge by the local authority then technically the german shepard owner isn't walking the dog on public property and so doesn't need to muzzle/leash the dog until he reaches the public road.

ForestFire

andreac wrote: »

Yes but what im saying, the dog or owner hasn't done anything as such to warrant this worry? It's not like he has attacked or caused any issues with other dogs or people, so really, what is the problem?

I don't make the laws or know if they are right or not, but it is a law.

I can't say, sure what have the speeding cars in housing estates done to warrant people worry. It's not like they have hit anyone yet? Lets just teach or kids to watch out for them.

Or similarly the poor drug dealers on the corner and there customers who keep to themselves, should they haven't bothered anyone.

And I know these are extreme examples and I am not comparing directly to dog owners, just used to make a point.

whupdedo

andreac wrote: »

Yes but what im saying, the dog or owner hasn't done anything as such to warrant this worry? It's not like he has attacked or caused any issues with other dogs or people, so really, what is the problem?

Your right the dog has done nothing wrong , but it's a big dog and if it attacks anyone will likely do a lot of damage , now I'm not saying the breed is dangerous but all it takes is for one to attack , I would personally be in favour of having a muzzle on all large dog breeds in public , after all they are animals and animals can do very animalistic things , no matter how well trained your dog is , and don't tell me it has never happened before

Their should also be a ban on owning dogs over a certain size if living in a built up area or apartments , why does anyone who lives in an apartment block need a pit bull or a german shepherd ? Is it a status thing to look tough ,every dog should have a minimum area in which to roam safely and if am owner can't provide this , then they shouldn't own a dog

Also I notice in there threads people saying about small breed dogs , I would rather be attacked by a 12 inch terrier than a 5 stone german shepherd any day , I own a westie and I've never left him off lead on walks unless I'm sure we're on our own , that way I have full control over him if other dogs or people come our way

muddypaws

ForestFire wrote: »

It only takes one attack to serious injure/kill a toddler. There is a reason why there are laws for certain dog breeds, family members (kids) have been killed by dogs in the past that just turn for some reason (kids fault or not is irrelevant, kids are kids)

As others have pointed out it is illegal not to have the dog on a lease with muzzle ..should be as simple as that really?

Can you please tell us what the reason is for certain dog breeds having extra legal requirements? I mean proper reasons, not just hearsay. Why are GSDs subject to it, but not BSDs? Is it only ever dogs on the RB list that bite?

Your argument about not teaching kids how to safely interact with dogs doesn't hold up, back again to cars and kids. Surely by your logic, it is ONLY the car driver's responsiblity not to hit a child, so why do parents teach their children the green cross code? If a child went into a field with cows and got hurt, would you say it was the cows' fault? The farmers?

I'm still not convinced it is a GSD you're seeing, as its as big as a tiger.

Blackbird00

ForestFire wrote: »

I can't say, sure what have the speeding cars in housing estates done to warrant people worry. It's not like they have hit anyone yet? Lets just teach or kids to watch out for them.

Does this mean you don't teach your kids to watch out for cars and just leave them run riot near a road?

b_mac2

You sound like you have too much time on your hands OP.

tk123

ForestFire wrote: »

I

And someone else said, why not educate kids about how to interact with dogs...why does this always come up...people know that we live in a society were humans have the greater rights than dogs and while it is probably good to teach children about all sorts of dangers it should not be the "potential" victims onus to do this?

It is 100% the parent's responsibly. Worse case scenario - a dog bites or even kills a child and gets put down and the owner move on. Parent is left with a child who's scared for life or dead- who has more to lose here? What about kidnappers - it's ok don't bother educating the kids who as you put it are potential victims here - the kidnapper should be the one to do it.

Have you considered that the owner dog is confident in his dog - confident enough to let it off lead knowing it won't be interested in anyone else which is what's happening at the moment - nothing has happened but you want it muzzled and on lead. That dog could be the best trained in Ireland for all you know - why not approach the owner and have a chat with them? It could be a service or therapy dog for all you know which are exempt from BSL..