Eye of the Tiger Beer.

The Muppet

That 20 min park run on that course is insane B, I'd be tired walking up that hill once. Mind yourself.

Singer

Firedance wrote: »

Stick to the plan B!!! Is the 10 easy 10 steady on the plan for this weekend or are you just throwing it in? Oh the memories, that was one of my favourite runs.... your easy pace should be 60-90seconds slower than MP or at least that's what I was advised and that's exactly the way it worked out for me running by HR, my easy runs were around 10.45 - 11.15 ish or so and my MP runs came in around 9.25-9.40 ish. Meno regularly told me you can't do any damage by running your easy stuff very slowly but you can do a lot of harm by running them too fast. Thyroid issues aside I had more success following his plan and his advice (to the letter) than I've ever had before. You're a far better runner than I but still, trust the plan man

Meno's plan doesn't fit perfectly for me - I've been doing higher milage, and the dates for the races don't fit this year's schedule. So, here's my tailor made version that I'll try to mostly do... I mostly stuck to my plan that I made up last year too

• At least 2 recovery runs (over 9'30) and 2 easy (8'30ish) a week. PMP is probably 7'25 right now, so these seem fine.
• 3 run commutes a week. I'll throw in strides into one a week.
• Mid-week session will be done in the late evening, not as a run commute.
• I'm probably gonna do the 3/4 marathon, so that needed to be fitted in.
• Another "time on feet" long run - along the same lines as my run from Dunboyne to Swords recently, trying to be on my feet for close to target marathon time. Meno's plan has this the week before the 22 with stuff.
• Saturday is mostly a play day - I might swap it with Friday's 10 easy and take a rest on Friday, however I might do a parkrun, or hill sprints, depending on how I'm feeling. Maybe not too many parkruns after last weekend though!
• I reserve the right to throw in a sneaky double if the opportunity arises

AuldManKing

Just a couple of observations on the plan;

I'd build in a recovery week somewhere in there - you have 6 weeks in a row with big Sunday runs (or a HM race), this coupled with monster sessions on the Wednesday will either bullet proof you or have you limping to the start line. Hopefully its the former

In the 8 days from 5th Oct to 12th you have 3 MP sessions of 15/15/14 - I know that this would break me. Breaking up 1 of these runs into a 3x5m or 5/4/3/2/1/ session may be a consideration??

Doing a hard park run or a 10m run on a Saturday is a great way to build fatigue into the legs to simulate tired legs later in the marathon when you are doing your Sunday long run.

Singer

AuldManKing wrote: »

Just a couple of observations on the plan;

Much appreciated!

AuldManKing wrote: »

I'd build in a recovery week somewhere in there - you have 6 weeks in a row with big Sunday runs (or a HM race), this coupled with monster sessions on the Wednesday will either bullet proof you or have you limping to the start line. Hopefully its the former

I could replace "22 with stuff" with the "22 time on feet" (replacing the "22 with stuff" with the 3/4), and do 16 easy the week before the HM, so it's all relatively easy leading up to the HM.

AuldManKing wrote: »

In the 8 days from 5th Oct to 12th you have 3 MP sessions of 15/15/14 - I know that this would break me. Breaking up 1 of these runs into a 3x5m or 5/4/3/2/1/ session may be a consideration??

It's not quite that insane, there's merely 10 alternating, then 15 at the 3/4 and a 14... :eek: :cool:

Here's take 2...

adrian522

I'm just heading into taper on this plan, here are my thoughts anyway.

How come you are not doing the 18 Miles alternating 2 easy/2 MP, or is that what you are doing 7 weeks out?

Personally I wouldn't be too sure about 10 miles being a recovery session, seems about 5 too much.

May be a bit of pot/kettle here but I'd look to add a bit more recovery/rest into the plan. Not sure what you plan for Saturdays but if you go Sunday -session (20), Monday 10, Tuesday 10, Wednesday session (14). That seems like a lot of stress on the body. Obviously you know yourself what your body can handle but I'd have thought going shorter on the Monday would help the recovery a bit more than 10 miles.

I'd also consider dropping the session after the half or pushing it out a day.

3 weeks out, would you consider the 22 Miles with stuff run? you could do it as part of the 3/4 marathon.

This is from the original thread that the plan is from:

With Athlone I'd recommend running the race 'steady' with the appropriate Pace group. The pace groups will be (I think) running about 4% slower than the actual MP (the 3:30 group runs at 8:20 a mile I believe). In the case of Athlone you can pick up the pace to MP over the last 3-4 miles if feeling good.

Maybe a parkrun the day before the 16 miles 2 weeks out?

Finally your mileage seems to be fairly heavy, I tried to do 3 weeks high mileage then a step back week in terms of volume. Maybe something similar could help?

Singer

adrian522 wrote: »

I'm just heading into taper on this plan, here are my thoughts anyway.

Thanks - much appreciated, especially from somebody almost on the other side

adrian522 wrote: »

How come you are not doing the 18 Miles alternating 2 easy/2 MP, or is that what you are doing 7 weeks out?

Yeh, it got lost in the transcription / playing around due to the different dates of races. Nothing against the session, just ran out of weeks

adrian522 wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't be too sure about 10 miles being a recovery session, seems about 5 too much.

I want to keep the Monday run a run commute. I find run commutes a lot less stressful than heading home on the bus, running around after the kids, eating dinner, tidying up, getting the kids to bed... and then heading out for a run. It's so much nicer to leave work and listen to fresh Second Captains podcast while at recovery pace, and once I get home I don't have to worry about getting out again

I realise it's a little long... I guess I could run the shorter way home and make it 9 miles :rolleyes:

adrian522 wrote: »

I'd also consider dropping the session after the half or pushing it out a day.

Yeh, I'll see how I'm feeling.

adrian522 wrote: »

3 weeks out, would you consider the 22 Miles with stuff run? you could do it as part of the 3/4 marathon.

I think that's a good idea! I might just do the 10@MP option - meno's "sting" session a few days later might be ruinous after 15@MP at the 3/4.

adrian522 wrote: »

Finally your mileage seems to be fairly heavy, I tried to do 3 weeks high mileage then a step back week in terms of volume. Maybe something similar could help?

I've been using race weeks as step back weeks Again, I'll see how I'm feeling in a week or two and will take rest days as needed, I'm definitely not a slave to a plan

Singer

No complaints about this week, other than worrying that all those recovery miles will slow me down!

The meno session was a MLR with 4@HMP, which went well, though in retrospect I should've gone a little bit faster. I had a day off work on Friday, the kids were in creche/school and the wife was in work, so the obvious thing to do was to get a sports massage and do two runs The sports massage was ok, my calves are tight and I was given some stretching to do.

This week's long run was 10 easy and 10 steady, which went well - I ended up doing it on Saturday evening and got completely soaked in the first 20 minutes or so. The last two long runs I did where the wheels came off were both in the middle of warm Sunday afternoons, however this night was quite cool and it made such a difference. I didn't feel any real pinch until 17 miles or so, and even then I could respond with no problems. Also I brought my bag out on the last two long runs, as my bottle holder had chafed me badly enough. I gave the bottle holder another go, this time not wearing racing shorts (it seems to sit ok on regular shorts for whatever reason), and it was mostly fine. I ended up only drinking one of the bottles, I had been drinking plenty of fluids (and generally stuffing myself with food all day) prior to the run.

Date|Distance|Pace|Miles
29th August|10.2 miles|9'19|Recovery-ish commute back to Swords.
30th August|10.1 miles|8'24|Easy commute back to Swords.
31st August|14 miles|7'57|14 with 4@HMP (6'55, 6'54, 6'55, 6'52). Did loops around Rivervalley again. It was nice and cool in the evening, I was pretty glad about that.
1st September|5 miles|9'36|Recovery around Swords.
2nd September|5.1 miles|8'20|Easy, mostly grass running.
2nd September|6.7 miles|8'09|Easy-ish out to Malahide and back.
3rd September|20.1 miles|8'02|10 easy, 10 steady.
4th September|6 miles|9'32|Yet more recovery miles around Swords.


Total: 77.4 miles (a new record)
August total: 285 miles (a new record)
Next week: 75 miles. The meno sessions are a 4,3,2,1@MP and a long run with 10@MP :eek::cool:

Singer

Another decent week (apart from the last 1.5 miles or so). Annoyingly, being off the booze appears to be helping - I'm pretty good at running hungover, but where it likely has its biggest impact is on sleep. I'm sleeping reasonably well and consistently now (in as much as somebody living with two young kinds can sleep), and I feel pretty good as a result.

I was chatting with my coach and we reckoned a VO2-max session could be good to slot in on the Saturday, so I showed up at Donabate parkrun... haha, who am I kidding - I felt like doing a parkrun, and the timing was good with weekend arrangements so I did one

Donabate is an interesting one, starting off on the grass in front of Newbridge House , then around a bunch of forest paths, a 180 back on the some of the same route (so passing by all the other runners), then some more grass and eventually finishing up at the side of Newbridge House. I didn't do much of a warmup, and when I got going I felt some mildly burning sensation from my left quads, just like I did when I didn't warm up before that 5k relay thing back in May. It went away after about a kilometre. I'd quickly settled into about the top 6, and ended up running side by side with a lad for a kilometre or so. My legs were feeling pretty heavy (to be expected after the week prior), and he eventually eased away from me, though I did cruise past somebody who'd clearly gone off too fast. I was slowing down too, but trying to keep it respectable enough. I was passed by somebody with about a km to go, and dropped into 5th. I'd started my watch a little late, so I wasn't sure what time I'd finished in - I wasn't too optimistic given the slow grass bits and feeling tired, but turned out I finished in a classy 19:59 The bad news is that my left quad was kind of sore all day afterwards.

Today's long run was planned to be 10 easy and 10 at MP. I got a permission slip to drive out to the Phoenix Park for this, which was great - the weather was nearly ideal, the wind picked up a good bit towards the end but the first hour or so was near idyllic. The park was busy with runners and was mostly sunny and cool enough. I parked on Chesterfield and looped around North Road and down Khyber, looping back up North Road again and then back to the car at Chesterfield to pick up some watered down Lucozade Sport. I then went out of the park, and joined the DCM route at the bottom of Manor St. and started the MP miles. All went reasonably well, I lost a few seconds on the way up Manor St. and on the hill up to Myo's, but I'll be doing the same thing on the day around those stretches anyway. Leaving the park I turned down towards Coyningham, and after a mile or so I was feeling a bit too tired to keep the pace up, and decided to jog the remaining bit in. Overall pretty happy anyway, maybe I should have slowed it down early on, but I was enjoying the park and I didn't wreck myself at the end (though maybe I should have!). Also I ran past three famous people (Catherina McKiernan, Michael D. and our own adrian522)! My left quad was fine until going down Khyber, when it said hello - not too sore, but noticeable. It went away for most of the run, but it's a little achey now.

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
5th September|11 miles|8'12|Commuted the long way, via Malahide. The day previously had been a recovery day, so I did it faster than usual. It was warm and a bit breezy, so I figured the Malahide route was less exposed than going up past the Airport etc. The pothole that I fell over in Artane is still not repaired, despite reporting it.
6th September|10.1 miles|8'29|I don't recall anything about this.
7th September|15.3 miles|7'49|This week's MLR/session - a 4+3+2+1 looping around Rivervalley. It went pretty well, splits were good (7'16, 7'18, 7'17, not sure but less than 7'20, 7'19, 7'18, 7'14, 7'15, 7'18, 7'12). I made some silly errors with my Garmin, I hit lap on the 4th mile of the "4" hence the wonky split and I paused my watch for about a minute at the start of the "1" - so I just kept up the pace until the mile actually went over on my watch, otherwise it wouldn't have counted Later miles were tough enough, but I felt good enough afterwards. This run included the 2nd fastest HM I've ever done (1:39 or so).
8th September|9.1 miles|9'14|Bus strike meant I could either hang around the quays fighting to get on a Swords Express, or I could just run commute home at recovery pace... guess which won I didn't go as slow as desired - it was raining and I had a dentist appointment to get back to, so I was naturally speeding up all the time. Felt great afterwards, so I guess it did the trick.
9th September|11.1 miles|8'29|I decided to make my life marginally more exciting by going a slightly different route home! Up the Malahide Road until Coolock, and then past Northside to Morton Stadium, and back to Swords. It was amazing!!!
10th September|4.1 miles|?|w/u, parkrun as above, c/d
11th September|20 miles|7'38|Long run as above. Another 2nd fastest ever HM time in there, 1:37 or so!


Total: 80.9 miles (a new record, etc. etc.)
Next week: No new records! Meno's sessions is 4x2@HMP, good prep for the half. Next week's long run is a trivial 16 easy I actually might take a rest day on Friday, especially if this quad doesn't get better in a hurry - it's probably not a coincidence that a couple of weeks after the last quad incident my groin got injured.

chickey2

That's some milage! Good to hear you're sleeping well, you'll need it.
I was in the park too and saw Michael D and Catherina Mckiernan. Don't think I saw you though! You were probably too fast.

adrian522

I saw neither Michael D nor Catherina. Disappointed.

Murph_D

Was Michael D out running?

Mind that quad. Probably mostly to,do,with the high mileage though - I was getting little stabs here and there today at the end of only a 57 mile week!

Who's the coach?

Singer

Murph_D wrote: »

Was Michael D out running?

Mind that quad. Probably mostly to,do,with the high mileage though - I was getting little stabs here and there today at the end of only a 57 mile week!

Who's the coach?

The coach is a figment of my imagination made up for the purpose of an obviously not very good joke

The quad is grand today, down from a 3/10 to 0.5/10 on the niggle scale. Maybe a bit of tightness and tenderness.

Murph_D

Yay, imaginary coach! (As Tod and Rod would say).

Singer

Another week down the marathon mines...

Due to the emergent discovery of headlice in the household I didn't get out for the mid-week session until 9.45PM, and it took me until nearly 2AM to get to sleep afterwards. This left me feeling pretty wrecked on Thursday, but by the weekend I was fine and no longer looking forward to taking a rest day. Otherwise not too much of interest this week.

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
12th September|10.1 miles|9'25|Recovery commute.
13th September|12 miles|8'25|Slightly extended easy commute home.
14th September|13.2 miles|7'35|Meno's session, 4x2@HMP. Splits: 6'45, 6'47, 6'46, 6'51, 6'45, 6'49, 6'49, 6'54.
15th September|9.1 miles|9'15|Tired recovery commute.
16th September|10.1 miles|8'14|Regular commute home.
17th September|5.5 miles|7'51|Considered a rest, but felt good, so went for a mindless enjoyably paced run mostly around the Fingal 10k course. Threw in some strides.
18th September|16 miles|7'37|16 easy just seemed too easy... so it became 16 steady with a few at MP. Got out early into the beautiful morning so decided to take in beautiful Malahide Castle and the coast road from Portmarnock to Malahide. I didn't bring out a drink and this backfired a little, I got quite thirsty and irritable towards the end and didn't hold pace for the last bit.


Total: 76.2 miles
Next week: I'm feeling pretty good - plenty of energy and nothing worrying on the niggle radar but I could probably benefit from a good rest, so I might a rest a little bit more than planned before next week's half. So, no more than 40 miles in total (including the race). Target for the half is sub-1:30 and most importantly to run a good race. Coming in at around 1:28 with a negative split would be a perfect day, but totally dependent on good weather and everything going well. I'll stick close enough to the 1:30 pacers until half way and then see what happens!

jake1970

Sub 1:30 should be no bother to you B. Just in case you need a target to chase, my PB for the half should be well within your reach:). Best of luck B!

Kennyg71

Best luck B, agree with above looking forward to the PB report

Mrs Mc

Best of luck B probably see ya there

diego_b

Good luck with the race B!

Firedance

Best of luck!! run well

mbarr

Good luck B! Hopefully see you out there I'll be spectating.

Younganne

good luck tomorrow, you deserve a great race.

This Fat Girl Runs

Good luck tomorrow, B!

hot buttered scones

Enjoy today. Hope all the training pays off. I'm sure it will.

FBOT01

Have a good one. ENJOY!!!

hot buttered scones

You're a beast. That's a great time.

Murph_D

Well done, B.

Singer

Race report!

I took this week pretty easy - 4 recovery miles with a work colleague on Monday, a run commute on Tuesday and an enjoyable 11 miles including the last 8 of the marathon on Wednesday. On Thursday I took a day off - my first in a month - and on Friday I planned to get out for some easy miles and strides, but sleep was awful on Thursday night thanks to the kids, and it would have been late enough (around 9) before I could get out on Friday, so I decided to can it in favour of getting to bed early and getting a good night's sleep.

Thankfully the kids slept well, and I woke to my alarm going off at 7 or so, just before the 2 year old started shouting. I got a decent brekkie into me, and got ready along with my wife who was doing her first half-marathon. We dropped the kids to my parents and drove over to the park, arriving around 9. We drove down the North Road looking for parking, and headed into the school carpark there. I spotted a wonderfully free area with a minor bump to get over before parking... ... and the car wedged spectacularly on top of the bump. The wheels just spun when I tried to go forward or back. Well, at least I was close enough to the race A few folks in our area had noticed our predicament and tried to push the car along, to no avail. We decided to abandon the very securely parked car where it was and deal with it later. We strolled down to the race start area, the wife hit the toilets and I did a bag drop, bumping into TFGR on the way, and did a quick pee at one of the Phoenix Park's natural organic urinals (a big tree). I had brought along a sacrificial long-sleeve top to make sure I was warm enough at the start, expecting the weather to be Frank Duffy esque, but I ended up leaving it in the bag, as it was warm enough and the wind and rain were mostly holding off. I lined up a bit back from where the 1:30 pacers ended up, marginally ahead of the 1:40 pacers, and waited around for things to get started. The tribute for the runner who died at last year's race was well respected and a really nice thing to see happen. Finally we got started...

The early miles (6:33, 6:39, 6:55, 6:57)

Started off slow enough, but built momentum and went past a lot of people. The 1:30 pacers weren't pulling away, so I was happy enough. I was happy to stick to the plan - stay with the pacers until the second half of the race, then try and go ahead a bit. I caught up with them around mile 3 just as we were heading up and down the rolling hills of Military Road. I wasn't working hard here at all, and was feeling great.

Pacers are boring (6:46, 6:41, 6:33, 6:41, 6:39)

Stayed in the general busy 1:30 pacer area here, and as we went up North Road I started to pass them out, and eventually got ahead. Put a bit of effort in once we got off North Road and made use of the downhill. Still feeling good, though started pinching a little once heading out to Farmleigh. I enjoyed the relief of Tower Road and prepared myself for the sneaky uphill afterwards.

This is fine (6:48, 6:43, 6:41, 7:02, ...)

mbarr called my name just after the 10 mile mark. I probably had a slightly bewildered look, as it appeared I was passing the 10 mile mark around a minute faster than my 10 mile PB from last month. This is exactly what I did at last year's half, which ended up a bit of a disaster for the last couple of miles. I was pretty sure I wasn't about to detonate in the same way, so carried on. I got into a decent enough group with a pair of Raheny runners for the blustery plod down Acres, which ended up being grand. I wasn't suffering anywhere near as badly as the Frank Duffy, tiring but feeling strong. We kept mostly together back up Upper Glen, though around the 12 mile mark they pulled ahead while I slowed down a bit. I kept things respectable enough, and even gave some encouragement to those around me! Heading down towards the home straight I was caught by some randomer who encouraged me on, and I managed to do a bit of a faster finish. After I got a shout from TFGR, I was happy with 1:28 on the clock as I finished, knowing that I had taken 20 seconds or so to cross the starting line. It didn't take long to recover, I was in fine shape and not feeling as annihilated as I'd been after other races - no leaning over the railings trying to catch my breath or anything like that. I gave the randomer a clap of thanks on the back, and headed straight for the bag drop to get into some dry clothes.

After the race

My tummy had been a little gnarly in the race, once I finished I got a little bit uncomfortable. I found TFGR and we had a natter while finding a good spot to find other boards folk. A few novices found us (including Maximus, psomethingsomethingmoose, extrasupervery and others who I forget!). MrsMc said hello, and soon after Nop98 soon showed up. I headed off to find the wife in the finishing area, briefly said hi to annapr through a fence, and was delighted to find my wife happy after finishing in 2:18 or so. She ran comfortably, and wasn't totally exhausted. Her main racing buddy had been gunning for 2:10, and ended up limping over the line with serious calf and back woes in 2:15, so she felt glad she didn't push herself as much to get injured! After I gave in to TFGR's flapjacks, the group dissipated and we headed back to the car...

Oh yeh, the car

Unfortunately the tectonic plates of the Phoenix Park had not conspired to free the car from its mooring. I was kind of glad that there were two other cars either side beached in the exact same fashion, and there was somebody with a shovel trying to free up his car. We chatted and bonded about our similar predicaments, and had a good laugh while kind of dreading the physical work to free the car. The guy with the shovel valiently scraped out a huge amount of muck, however we tried a few times to free the car to no avail. Eventually a car drove into the carpark and a lad got out offering his help - he was going home from a job, got stuck in the park, saw the drama and decided to kill some time helping us out. We tried a few things, but ultimately resigned ourselves to digging the muck from underneath the cars out. Your man wouldn't accept that slowly digging out the cars was the right way to go, and ended up flagging down a kitchen installer van, and the occupants were more than happy to help out. We ended up pushing the other car out of the muck, and then with a lot more effort, our own car got freed. Finally we could leave the park, content with our PBs and car that could actually move

Moral of the story: don't get weedy runners to push your car, get some real hands-on worker types

Finish time: 1:28:28 (310th out of 6968)

I think it's ever so slightly a positive split, but probably my best race yet. I felt great for most of it, got tired at the right time, and hit my goals. A satisfying race to finish the buildup to DCM

Bungy Girl

Brilliant, B! Well done. What a great performance. Glad to hear the car came unstuck finally. Leave it to the experts, eh ? :pac::pac:

Firedance

Fantastic B! Very well raced, I'd have been freaking about the car though

diego_b

Excellent stuff and glad to hear all went on the race and car recovery front! Big congrats on the pb and bodes well for 5 weeks from tomorrow!