Government Capital Spending on Roads: 2016-2022

road_high

Such a shame that during a severe recession, when construction prices would have been lower etc that we couldn't have had the foresight as a nation to continue with a strong road programme. Unfortunately, welfare spending seemed to be the priority...sigh.
Parts of roads like the N24, N25, N21, N22, N52, N80, N4 etc are third world in parts and would be such a boon to their regions and the whole country, if properly upgraded.
Also, they would have provided some much needed employment at the time, and would be a boost especially now as things picked up.

If anything it appears worse, as the fallout from suspending these schemes seems more apparent now with less in the pipeline for the next 5 years thanks to cutting off of planning, CPO's that would have allowed more on stream. We'll be another decade or two just catching up

spacetweek

We didn't control our budget during the recession.

joujoujou

spacetweek wrote: »

We didn't control our budget during the recession.

We never did and never will. They do. :pac:

BoatMad

road_high wrote: »

Such a shame that during a severe recession, when construction prices would have been lower etc that we couldn't have had the foresight as a nation to continue with a strong road programme. Unfortunately, welfare spending seemed to be the priority...sigh.
Parts of roads like the N24, N25, N21, N22, N52, N80, N4 etc are third world in parts and would be such a boon to their regions and the whole country, if properly upgraded.
Also, they would have provided some much needed employment at the time, and would be a boost especially now as things picked up.

If anything it appears worse, as the fallout from suspending these schemes seems more apparent now with less in the pipeline for the next 5 years thanks to cutting off of planning, CPO's that would have allowed more on stream. We'll be another decade or two just catching up

err, the state was bust , just exactly where was the money to come from. seriously, have you been asleep since 2007

BoatMad

joujoujou wrote: »

We never did and never will. They do. :pac:

as long as we remain within the parameters of the stability pact , we can in effect do what we like.

joujoujou

BoatMad wrote: »

as long as we remain within the parameters of the stability pact , we can in effect do what we like.

We are only taxpayers. They spend our money and we have nothing to say, etc. :P

BoatMad

joujoujou wrote: »

We are only taxpayers. They spend our money and we have nothing to say, etc. :P

most of the money is spent on programmes that the public over many years have "demanded". these include free education, free health services, and massive support systems for the poor and elderly. Any examination of the states budget spend , will see that Education, Health and Social Welfare, consume the lions shares of the tax take.

Its disingenuous to suggest we have no say, in general tax spend is a function of general public desire, for example we see currently an expansion ( or restoration ) of public services as a priority and thats a direct result of the voice of ordinary people expressed through opinion and the ballot box.

IN general in this country we like the " one for every one in the audience " tax spending approach , which tends to hamper targeted large scale strategic capital projects, hence well get increases in state pension before a road is built

road_high

BoatMad wrote: »

err, the state was bust , just exactly where was the money to come from. seriously, have you been asleep since 2007

We managed to continue dishing out record levels of welfare during this time. If we had used a chunk of this budget for infrastructure it would have been far more useful long term. But this being Ireland that kind of "out there" thinking wouldn't be entertained politically.

BoatMad

road_high wrote: »

We managed to continue dishing out record levels of welfare during this time. If we had used a chunk of this budget for infrastructure it would have been far more useful long term. But this being Ireland that kind of "out there" thinking wouldn't be entertained politically.

not only would it have not been acceptable politically to further cut welfare, it would have led to riots and made the water charges protest a nice sunday day out in park

lets see you go to the public with a build the M20 from a cut in social welfare and see how you fare.

bread always comes before walls

road_high

BoatMad wrote: »

not only would it have not been acceptable politically to further cut welfare, it would have led to riots and made the water charges protest a nice sunday day out in park

lets see you go to the public with a build the M20 from a cut in social welfare and see how you fare.

bread always comes before walls

That's why it's so difficult make any progress in this country. The handout culture is just so ingrained. Take the outrageous Xmas "bonus"...€221 million alone burned on this- this would fund/part fund lots of the projects listed here. And create jobs and allow the country create wealth for decades.

BoatMad

road_high wrote: »

That's why it's so difficult make any progress in this country. The handout culture is just so ingrained. Take the outrageous Xmas "bonus"...€221 million alone burned on this- this would fund/part fund lots of the projects listed here. And create jobs and allow the country create wealth for decades.

it is what it is , and its like most other european social democracies

the only way we can undertake more large capital projects is either PPPs, or expanding the fiscal space

Idbatterim

not only would it have not been acceptable politically to further cut welfare, it would have led to riots and made the water charges protest a nice sunday day out in park

absolute rubbish, there would have been strong resistance, but they could have went further without much more backlash! Thats why I reckon it may be best if things come off the rails again, 200,000,000,000 in debt this time, any one think there will skirting around the edges if the **** hits the fan again?

lets see you go to the public with a build the M20 from a cut in social welfare and see how you fare.

a small vocal group would kick up stink, in any other country, they would be on a fraction of our welfare, personally I couldnt care less about their opinion. At our welfare rates, it is wanton waste... Cut 20%-30% off waste, sorry welfare budget, all problems here can be solved in a matter of years...


it wont be the same mickey mouse cuts next time around!

Take the outrageous Xmas "bonus"...€221 million alone burned on this- this would fund/part fund lots of the projects listed here. And create jobs and allow the country create wealth for decades.

glad to see someone shares the exact same opinion as me, I have said the same over the past few days on various threads. Bertie Ahernes pension is money better spent, if that puts into perspective what I think of this bonus sham! Enough to end homlessness and do god knows what else with!

BoatMad

Idbatterim wrote: »

absolute rubbish, there would have been strong resistance, but they could have went further without much more backlash! Thats why I reckon it may be best if things come off the rails again, 200,000,000,000 in debt this time, any one think there will skirting around the edges if the **** hits the fan again?

The idea that even more chaos and suffering , somehow results in a better end result is rather bizarre. During the Trokia period, ireland was severely constrained in how it used the money , building roads was not one of the uses

TO suggest that a futher period of upset is needed is truly bizarre and borders on the psychopathic

a small vocal group would kick up stink, in any other country, they would be on a fraction of our welfare, personally I couldnt care less about their opinion. At our welfare rates, it is wanton waste... Cut 20%-30% off waste, sorry welfare budget, all problems here can be solved in a matter of years...

I think Steve Bannon has an opening for you. Im a fiscal conservative, but I could in no way condone what you propose

it wont be the same mickey mouse cuts next time around!

there no reply to that . its the ravings of a madman

Idbatterim

The idea that even more chaos and suffering , somehow results in a better end result is rather bizarre. During the Trokia period, ireland was severely constrained in how it used the money , building roads was not one of the uses

I totally understand why the capital budget was decimated, there would have probably been war at the notion of DU and MN etc going ahead, with their spends at that time...

TO suggest that a futher period of upset is needed is truly bizarre and borders on the psychopathic

oh really? you dont see exactly the same mistakes being repeated as last time? because I do, its like bloody dejavu! except its 2016 not 2005!

there no reply to that . its the ravings of a madman

so you are from the following school of thought, the ones the politicians like to throw out the "it was a difficult period, there was no easy choices"

Nah they took the easy and understandable option, borrow tens of billions to keep living standards as high as possible.

It may sound mad to you, I and many I know are disgusted at the likes of this welfare bonus sham. Many of my dublin friends are stuck renting, looking at ever rising house prices in dublin, exacerbated by the recent great decision from the "independent" central bank.

**** hits the fan again and it would potentially allow them to buy at a reasonable price they could afford, of course, you have to make sure you are in a position to benefit, if prices collapse again, i.e. be cash buyer or have good chunk of asking price...

a E5 across the boards welfare increase was doled out by our "conservative" party to all on welfare! to get the equivalent back from your USC cut, you would need to be on €52,000! whats your opinion on that?

BoatMad

Idbatterim wrote: »

I totally understand why the capital budget was decimated, there would have probably been war at the notion of DU and MN etc going ahead, with their spends at that time...

Good, Im not arguing that it should not have been a good idea to build infrastructure during a recession ( ala new deal) but it was not possible during a period where the state was insolvent. Note that such insolvency should never have happened in a fiat currency union, and showed up how badly constituted the Euro money union was ( and still is )

oh really? you dont see exactly the same mistakes being repeated as last time? because I do, its like bloody dejavu! except its 2016 not 2005!

no I dont , because of several things

(a) The tax base in ireland is considerably wider and deeper then in 2008+
(B) The fiscal pact puts real and hard breaks on exchequer fiscal space
(c) Bank bailout mechanisms are now in place that didi not exist in 2008
(d) Central banks and regulators have tightened up their acts (even if not to some people standards, they are arguably better then 2000+)
(e) the Fed and the ECB have clearly shown they will intervene , to whatever extent is necessary in supporting banks and currencies and this was not evident or tested in the Eurozone in 2000-2008

so you are from the following school of thought, the ones the politicians like to throw out the "it was a difficult period, there was no easy choices"

fundamentally thats the basic truth, there was no easy way out , once the mistakes had been made, the exchequer deficit had to be reigned in and thats means pain

Nah they took the easy and understandable option, borrow tens of billions to keep living standards as high as possible.

The truth is they borrowed money to keep the state and the people in it from anarchy ( as could be seen in greece )

It may sound mad to you, I and many I know are disgusted at the likes of this welfare bonus sham. Many of my dublin friends are stuck renting, looking at ever rising house prices in dublin, exacerbated by the recent great decision from the "independent" central bank.

while the " welfare bonus " scam or not, may annoy you and others, the amounts involved are not material to the issues at hand and if you have ever been on social welfare , you would not be arguing as you are.

**** hits the fan again and it would potentially allow them to buy at a reasonable price they could afford, of course, you have to make sure you are in a position to benefit, if prices collapse again, i.e. be cash buyer or have good chunk of asking price...

House prices fell because credit sources temporarily dried up. House prices did not fall because they reached some " tipping " point, ( There is no tipping point. )

a E5 across the boards welfare increase was doled out by our "conservative" party to all on welfare! to get the equivalent back from your USC cut, you would need to be on €52,000! whats your opinion on that?

its was a stupid move , but then this is not a conservative government, its a FF, yes FF & independents government, back to FF old tricks of populism that have twice bankrupted this country, The voters however seem happy to forgive them for a extra tuppence of free soup

Idbatterim

Good, Im not arguing that it should not have been a good idea to build infrastructure during a recession ( ala new deal) but it was not possible during a period where the state was insolvent. Note that such insolvency should never have happened in a fiat currency union, and showed up how badly constituted the Euro money union was ( and still is )

I think it is a crying shame that work hadnt commenced on MN and DU before the **** hit the fan...

no I dont , because of several things

(a) The tax base in ireland is considerably wider and deeper then in 2008+
(B) The fiscal pact puts real and hard breaks on exchequer fiscal space
(c) Bank bailout mechanisms are now in place that didi not exist in 2008
(d) Central banks and regulators have tightened up their acts (even if not to some people standards, they are arguably better then 2000+)
(e) the Fed and the ECB have clearly shown they will intervene , to whatever extent is necessary in supporting banks and currencies and this was not evident or tested in the Eurozone in 2000-2008

they are already starting to erode the taxbase by taking people out of tax net via the usc reductions, which is a joke. again im not looking to win an election... water charges and household tax are at farcial levels...

yes they may have tightened up their acts, but I am sure before the boom they werent as loose either, they are going that way again, they may well not go as far...

I read an article saying we go back to the markers next year I think it is, up to our tits in debt. The ecb will stop buying bonds for virtually nothing at that point...

We are not out of the woods and I think anyone who is cocksure enough to think there may not be storm clouds on the horizon, is akin to Bertie aherne with his suicide comments in 07 or whenever that gem came out...

fundamentally thats the basic truth, there was no easy way out , once the mistakes had been made, the exchequer deficit had to be reigned in and thats means pain

difficult when you what gets you elected is populism. cuts to rates that over the top even now, were very meagre, like I said, borrowing allowed this. About the only ones I would have sympathy for are people in the private sector who lost jobs or took serious pay cuts...

The truth is they borrowed money to keep the state and the people in it from anarchy ( as could be seen in greece )

no we arent that banana republic thank god, but we arent far off their level. There is no way I could see that level of anarchy here, we are just a different people...

while the " welfare bonus " scam or not, may annoy you and others, the amounts involved are not material to the issues at hand and if you have ever been on social welfare , you would not be arguing as you are.

yeah 220,000,000 is pretty much immaterial in entire scheme of things, but when there is the homeless problem (which that figure could end multiple times over), when the likes of DU is scrapped for that kind of money to start with the enabling works. then I have to question, could it have been spent better! that 220,000,000 is obscene waste of the highest order! In terms of infrastructure, I read that Dublin - cork journey time by rail could be cut by 15 minutes for a 12 million investment, it would pay for itself in two years!!!

House prices fell because credit sources temporarily dried up. House prices did not fall because they reached some " tipping " point, ( There is no tipping point. )

that seems a little simplistic in the analysis. Either way, I am not here to argue why, I am saying if the **** hits the fan again, it stands to benefit certain people, the way that the current rising prices benefit many...

its was a stupid move , but then this is not a conservative government, its a FF, yes FF & independents government, back to FF old tricks of populism that have twice bankrupted this country, The voters however seem happy to forgive them for a extra tuppence of free soup

yeah exactly, I meant "conservative" with the biggest dose of sarcasm imaginable. agree with you on this point, 100%

BoatMad

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think it is a crying shame that work hadnt commenced on MN and DU before the **** hit the fan...

I agree, but its just wishful thinking , fundamentally in a fiscal union of a fiat currency we should have been able to access very cheap money, but the Euro is a broken system designed to allow Germans too have one foot outside the " bed"

they are already starting to erode the taxbase by taking people out of tax net via the usc reductions, which is a joke. again im not looking to win an election... water charges and household tax are at farcial levels...

Ireland most definitely has an extraordinary light touch on low income workers, we are the second lowest in the OCED and its clearly unbalanced, The lower paid need to actually pay more tax , thats clear ( as so certain other groupings ) Our tax system as a result is biased totally into the middle earner contributing the most tax and getting little back. This is sustainable , but not fair , mind you fairness is not a good electoral strategy.

yes they may have tightened up their acts, but I am sure before the boom they werent as loose either, they are going that way again, they may well not go as far...

Regulation was decreased enormously post 2000, all around the world . It has tightened up, is it tight enough , we dont know until its tested !!, but no-one wants to test it.

I read an article saying we go back to the markers next year I think it is, up to our tits in debt. The ecb will stop buying bonds for virtually nothing at that point...

we are already in the markets for several years now and the NTMA has no issues getting bonds away . our deficit is reducing and the state is solvent and tax returns are robust. Arguably in a proper fiat currency there should be no issue generating money , but the Euro is a broken monetary union.

The ECB will have interest rates in the floor for a decade more and QE will feature in one form or another for a while yet. only sustained Euro growth can change that .

We are not out of the woods and I think anyone who is cocksure enough to think there may not be storm clouds on the horizon, is akin to Bertie aherne with his suicide comments in 07 or whenever that gem came out...

Never said we were out of the woods, but the economy is more robust that post 2000, productivity is up, the tax base has widened and deepened , were as good as its going too get

difficult when you what gets you elected is populism. cuts to rates that over the top even now, were very meagre, like I said, borrowing allowed this. About the only ones I would have sympathy for are people in the private sector who lost jobs or took serious pay cuts...

exchequer borrowing in post 2000+, during a period of rapid tax growth caused the crash in ireland public finances, the fiscal pact now controls that and hence Ireland cannot get into the same position as 2008-2010, HOWEVER , there is an argument that we should have had access to cheap development capital, over the past 5 years , but the Germans were never going to stomach it .

no we arent that banana republic thank god, but we arent far off their level. There is no way I could see that level of anarchy here, we are just a different people...

we are far from a banana republic, we are a modern capitalist western social democracy and ones of the worlds wealthiest countries. Lets celebrate our gains more then our drawbacks , and bury the " poor mouth " . We constantly do ourselves a disservice. All those Poles cant be wrong !!

yeah 220,000,000 is pretty much immaterial in entire scheme of things, but when there is the homeless problem (which that figure could end multiple times over), when the likes of DU is scrapped for that kind of money to start with the enabling works. then I have to question, could it have been spent better! that 220,000,000 is obscene waste of the highest order! In terms of infrastructure, I read that Dublin - cork journey time by rail could be cut by 15 minutes for a 12 million investment, it would pay for itself in two years!!!

I agree by DU and MN are billon type capital investments and at present under the fiscal pact , we dont have the headroom to borrow . End of story ( for right or wrong ) , cutting welfare wouldn't change that , even if it was politically possible

as why you would want to knock 15 minutes of a journey from station to station and then spend 2 hours each side getting to that station is bizarre, 100 mph running is more then sufficient in Ireland , given the short distances and station dwell times, I would bring up all the major interurban rail tracks to the 100mph capable standard , rather then just Dublin Cork

Of course , if you are a fiscal conservative, the better solution is to abandon interurban railways all together , our roads are not busy outside the cities and concentrate therefore on commuter mass transit in the GDA and some in Cork.

that seems a little simplistic in the analysis. Either way, I am not here to argue why, I am saying if the **** hits the fan again, it stands to benefit certain people, the way that the current rising prices benefit many...

there are always people that benefit in rising and falling markets , so what

yeah exactly, I meant "conservative" with the biggest dose of sarcasm imaginable. agree with you on this point, 100%

+1.

spacetweek

Enough recession part 2 hysteria.
Back to talking about roads funding please.

BoatMad

I would meekly suggest that the issue with any capital funding in the state in the future , will be the enormous impact of the fiscal pact on Irelands ability to borrow.

Unless we complete the monetary union into a fiscal union and hence receive in effect transfers from the centre, we will now be at an enormous disadvantage in raising funding compared to nations with far larger tax bases

marno21

Seeing as there will be little movement on anything road related in the next 2 weeks or so, here's another update after 15 months of this "spending plan".

Progress on all schemes has been glacial to put it mildly, which isn't helped by the Minister for Transport being under the spotlight for gross ineptitude and his Minister for State for also doing very little.

Meanwhile, there have been quite a few road fatalities on non upgraded national roads (many of which were seen by the NRA as needing upgrades) and continued congestion across many strategic national routes.

Here's an update on all schemes announced in the plan:

Road schemes:

N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin:
Advance works continue on this, with consultants being appointed to carry this through to the construction stage.
Expected start: 2019
Expected opening: 2021

N5 Westport-Turlough:
Fencing is ongoing and all advanced works are complete. The only issue is the lack of funding to bring this to tender/construction.
Expected start: 2019
Expected opening: 2021

M7 Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade:
This is at the tender stage with tenders being taken until May. Funding is in place for this to start during 2017.
Expected start: 2017
Expected opening (in full): 2019

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange:
This is shovel ready with consultants being appointed to carry this through the processes. Confirmed start of early 2019
Expected start: 2019
Expected opening: 2021

N22 Ballyvourney/Macroom BP:
Advanced works on this will be done during 2017. Fencing, archaeology and utility diversions. Latest confirmed date is Q1 2020:
Expected start: 2020
Expected opening: 2022

N56 Mountcharles - Inver:
This is shovel ready but no funding as of yet.
Expected start: 2019
Expected opening: 2020

N56 Dungloe - Glenties:
A large part of this should be done by now, due to its remoteness there has been no updates by a local poster. The final stage is still without funding
Expected completion: 2019

N59 Moycullen BP:
Completely shovel ready and ready to tender but waiting for funding.
Expected start: 2019
Expected opening: 2021

Road schemes pending planning:
N2 Slane BP:
At very early stage of procurement of consultants, a long way away yet.
Expected start: 2021
Expected opening: 2023

N6 Galway City Ring Road:
Final design being presented to ABP in Q1 2017. Funding remains a major issue with the scheme costing €593m.
Expected start: 2021
Expected opening (in full): 2024/5

M21 Adare BP & Limerick-Foynes:
To be presented to ABP in 2017.
Expected start: 2021
Expected opening (in full): 2024

M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy:
EIS & Motorway Order expected very soon. However, objections from locals supported by Government party members may cause delays.
Expected start: 2021
Expected opening: 2023

N72 Mallow Relief Road:
Will likely be bundled in with future M20 plans. Currently at feasibility study stage
Expected start: 2023
Expected opening: 2024

The apparent lack of funding for ANYTHING is currently holding all of these schemes back. This has become especially apparent in Dail committe meetings since I last posted an update.

loyatemu

M7 Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade:
This is at the tender stage with tenders being taken until May. Funding is in place for this to start during 2017.
Expected start: 2017
Expected opening (in full): 2019

If the tender is open until May it's hard to see it starting next year.

road_high

That's about the tip of the iceberg of what wants doing sadly and they don't even have funding for that. Depressing is not the word.
We need a huge and coordinated MIU road building initiative part 2- a major push to upgrade a series of N primary routes (I'm thinking N21/20/22/24/2517/4/5) to at least/or a mix of high quality 2 lane, HQDC or motorway within the next decade. With a political will to do it. I'd be the first to criticise FF but at least in power they did see the merit in motorway building transforming all the IUs to Dublin.

marno21

road_high wrote: »

That's about the tip of the iceberg of what wants doing sadly and they don't even have funding for that. Depressing is not the word.
We need a huge and coordinated MIU road building initiative part 2- a major push to upgrade a series of N primary routes (I'm thinking N21/20/22/24/2517/4/5) to at least/or a mix of high quality 2 lane, HQDC or motorway within the next decade. With a political will to do it. I'd be the first to criticise FF but at least in power they did see the merit in motorway building transforming all the IUs to Dublin.

Very true. The above would be done in one year during the good years. We have this "recovery" going but we're putting down no foundations, the cities are gridlocked, lots of road crashes on underdeveloped national roads and apparently no money available whatsoever for these roads.

The fact we've a government so focused on economic growth that won't contribute the pittance required to upgrade the Dunkettle interchange and dual the N28 says a lot about them.

road_high

Almost nothing starting in 2017, really shocking stuff. Apart from Enda's pet project of the N5 which I don't see as urgent, there's no political will to do anything except stay in power. And I normally vote FG.

road_high

How the hell could the N4 scheme be so far off? That's been talked about and planned since old gods time. I think I remember reading over 2 years ago how immenent that was- must have been election crap!

marno21

road_high wrote: »

How the hell could the N4 scheme be so far off? That's been talked about and planned since old gods time. I think I remember reading over 2 years ago how immenent that was- must have been election crap!

It was - and still is - "imminent". The issue is it's getting peanuts every year to get it to construction stage. It could be built now if funding was provided.

Michael Nolan of TII said in June that there was 730m being provided to complete the 13 schemes above. That would appear to me to cover the first 8, and the 5 subject to planning will only be brought to the shovel ready stage (N2, N21/N69, N28, N72 & Galway Ring Road).

Dungloe-Glenties & Mountcharles to Inver need around 50m to complete both. Moycullen BP is around 4km so shouldn't be too expensive. That leaves around 650m for the N4 & N5 dualling, Dunkettle, Macroom BP & M7 upgrade.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

It was - and still is - "imminent". The issue is it's getting peanuts every year to get it to construction stage. It could be built now if funding was provided.

Michael Nolan of TII said in June that there was 730m being provided to complete the 13 schemes above. That would appear to me to cover the first 8, and the 5 subject to planning will only be brought to the shovel ready stage (N2, N21/N69, N28, N72 & Galway Ring Road).

Dungloe-Glenties & Mountcharles to Inver need around 50m to complete both. Moycullen BP is around 4km so shouldn't be too expensive. That leaves around 650m for the N4 & N5 dualling, Dunkettle, Macroom BP & M7 upgrade.

Hmmm what you're saying really is there's plenty ready/almost ready it's just the pitiful funding they are receiving to push them to the next various stages.
What's the bets they'll all be wheeled out again come the next election (to bring them to the next stage/s) and so on...until they (might) actually get built sometime in the next decade.
I despair with how far down the political spectrum infrastructure and roads just appear to be. €220m can be found for Xmas "bonues" but the same can't be found to build say part of the M20 (the old saying "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" could not be more apt as this infrastructure will pay off for decades and decades once built).

medoc

The FG government is just doing enough to avoid been accused of doing nothing. Stalling for time as much as possible. Also this government seems to have the most disinterested minister for transport in years. Looks like he wanted every other portfolio more than the one he got. Gives them more attention than his own at times.

marno21

road_high wrote: »

Hmmm what you're saying really is there's plenty ready/almost ready it's just the pitiful funding they are receiving to push them to the next various stages.
What's the bets they'll all be wheeled out again come the next election (to bring them to the next stage/s) and so on...until they (might) actually get built sometime in the next decade.
I despair with how far down the political spectrum infrastructure and roads just appear to be. €220m can be found for Xmas "bonues" but the same can't be found to build say part of the M20 (the old saying "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" could not be more apt as this infrastructure will pay off for decades and decades once built).

You're fairly on the ball here.

When the plan was announced back in Sept '15, if the will was there, the N4/N5/M7/Dunkettle/N22/N56/N56/N59 schemes could all be under construction or fairly close to construction. By the time they would be wrapping up in 2019, the next suite of schemes - N2/N6/N21/N28/N72 could be ready to go.

Instead, the first 8 schemes will be starting in 2019/2020 and the last 5 God knows when. Total joke - these aren't vanity projects, some of them are incredibly important projects with benefit:cost ratios of > 10.

Hopefully people don't believe the **** the next time around. Castlebar people know the N5 land is fenced and ready to go. 2019 is only arsing around.

road_high

Just to add I know the N5 between Castlebar and Westport is not great, but I'd hardly put it at the top of any list, particularly when they seem to be allocating so few crumbs. They're are far worse bottlenecks. Clearly a pet Enda Kenny project. It's not of huge national importance.