Government Capital Spending on Roads: 2016-2022

marno21

road_high wrote: »

If they did this on many existing National Primary and Secondary routes it would make such a difference in the interim for not a whole lot of money.
I'm thinking of routes like the N21, N24, N80, N25 etc. There's much hard shoulder virtually unused too. Would free up traffic flows greatly in my opinion.

There's already a significant amount of passing lane on the N71 on the Ballinhassig section. There's also a passing lane between Bandon and Inishannon and a passing lane either side of Rosscarbery.

Long term passing lanes aren't the solution because there's now so much traffic by the time you get to the end of the passing lane you are either a few cars further on in the queue or you can drive at 100km/h for about 1-2km before you reach another slow procession of cars.

marno21

road_high wrote: »

Know the N5 isn't all that busy but while they are it all, why not spend some extra money and make it higher spec

The N5 is quieter than a significant amount of regional roads.

There's no need for major capex on a quiet road through rural Roscommon that'll have around 4,500 cars a day using it. Type 1 Single Carraigeway without bridges is completely sufficient. The users of the N5 should be fairly content at the N5 investment between 2011 and now, and beyond. It'll be the most consistently high quality road in the country besides the new interurban motorways and the M18 soon.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

There's already a significant amount of passing lane on the N71 on the Ballinhassig section. There's also a passing lane between Bandon and Inishannon and a passing lane either side of Rosscarbery.

Long term passing lanes aren't the solution because there's now so much traffic by the time you get to the end of the passing lane you are either a few cars further on in the queue or you can drive at 100km/h for about 1-2km before you reach another slow procession of cars.

I think they could work well on quieter sections of N roads i.e. Pass that annoying caravan or HGV that otherwise will hold all up for endless kms
Not familiar with N71 but they work quite well on parts of the N25 already.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

The N5 is quieter than a significant amount of regional roads.

There's no need for major capex on a quiet road through rural Roscommon that'll have around 4,500 cars a day using it. Type 1 Single Carraigeway without bridges is completely sufficient. The users of the N5 should be fairly content at the N5 investment between 2011 and now, and beyond. It'll be the most consistently high quality road in the country besides the new interurban motorways and the M18 soon.

We all know it's an Enda Kenny obsession! Especially up west, voters have a big thing about getting roads upgraded and will reward at the ballot box accordingly!

Charles Babbage

While the 2+1 was poorly implemented and probably isn't a good choice for new routes, which could be 2+2, it might be suitable for some upgrades of earlier offline sections. Are any sections likely to receive this treatment?

L1011

Charles Babbage wrote: »

While the 2+1 was poorly implemented and probably isn't a good choice for new routes, which could be 2+2, it might be suitable for some upgrades of earlier offline sections. Are any sections likely to receive this treatment?

Nowhere will get 2+1 now after the trials - all of which were done badly.

road_high

L1011 wrote: »

Nowhere will get 2+1 now after the trials - all of which were done badly.

I agree. Good idea, especially for Irish roads. But poorly executed

marno21

road_high wrote: »

I agree. Good idea, especially for Irish roads. But poorly executed

Very poorly as you say. The N20 with AADTs of around 15k is nowhere to trial a 2+1. A national secondary with volumes of 5-6k would be more suitable

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

The N5 is quieter than a significant amount of regional roads.

There's no need for major capex on a quiet road through rural Roscommon that'll have around 4,500 cars a day using it. Type 1 Single Carraigeway without bridges is completely sufficient. The users of the N5 should be fairly content at the N5 investment between 2011 and now, and beyond. It'll be the most consistently high quality road in the country besides the new interurban motorways and the M18 soon.

Just thinking and I'm sure it's been mentioned already...with the new M17 opening to almost Co Mayo and linking to the M6 near Athenry...would it not have made some sense to re-route the N5 traffic along this corridor? Hardly much longer a route.
I appreciate the N5 has other functions and not just to link Dublin/Leinster with Mayo of course and it's good to see it upgraded.

MayoSalmon

road_high wrote:

Just thinking and I'm sure it's been mentioned already...with the new M17 opening to almost Co Mayo and linking to the M6 near Athenry...would it not have made some sense to re-route the N5 traffic along this corridor? Hardly much longer a route. I appreciate the N5 has other functions and not just to link Dublin/Leinster with Mayo of course and it's good to see it upgraded.

You can do East Mayo Swinford Dublin in 2hr..wouldnt manage anything like that doing M6/M17.

N5 needs upgrade through Roscommon..and Carrick on Shannon needs a bypass

Charles Babbage

L1011 wrote: »

Nowhere will get 2+1 now after the trials - all of which were done badly.

I suppose doing it right isn't an option.

road_high

MayoSalmon wrote: »

You can do East Mayo Swinford Dublin in 2hr..wouldnt manage anything like that doing M6/M17.

N5 needs upgrade through Roscommon..and Carrick on Shannon needs a bypass

I travelled Dublin to Longford lately and it was more like 1.30 hrs via N4/M4- I wouldn't have thought 2 hours to east Mayo currently possible. The N4 Longford/Mullingar is impossible to make time on and N5 through Roscommon as you say is substandard after Strokestown.

road_high

L1011 wrote: »

Nowhere will get 2+1 now after the trials - all of which were done badly.

Such a shame...so many Irish roads are ripe for and crying out for 2+1s.
The N20 and N24 ones were not well executed.

marno21

road_high wrote: »

Just thinking and I'm sure it's been mentioned already...with the new M17 opening to almost Co Mayo and linking to the M6 near Athenry...would it not have made some sense to re-route the N5 traffic along this corridor? Hardly much longer a route.
I appreciate the N5 has other functions and not just to link Dublin/Leinster with Mayo of course and it's good to see it upgraded.

What would've made a lot of sense would have been routing a new N5 further north (especially to avoid the archaeological minefield at Rathcrogan) to somewhere around Roosky, and building the M4/N4 Mullingar to Roosky scheme and you would have DC from Dublin to Roosky and decent single carraigeway from there to Castlebar.

Instead we are getting the fairly basic single carraigeway shadowing the existing N5.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

What would've made a lot of sense would have been routing a new N5 further north (especially to avoid the archaeological minefield at Rathcrogan) to somewhere around Roosky, and building the M4/N4 Mullingar to Roosky scheme and you would have DC from Dublin to Roosky and decent single carraigeway from there to Castlebar.

Instead we are getting the fairly basic single carraigeway shadowing the existing N5.

They always seem to run major new upgrades shadowing the existing N routes despite talking otherwise...happened with the N8 and N9- more or less followed the old routes too!

marno21

road_high wrote: »

They always seem to run major new upgrades shadowing the existing N routes despite talking otherwise...happened with the N8 and N9- more or less followed the old routes too!

In fairness, what I'd be advocating here is more akin to what happened with the M7 and M8, where the M8 branches off the M7 a good bit further west than it used to, and runs nowhere near Abbeyleix or Durrow.

There's no real need for the N5 to service Frenchpark, Tulsk or Strokestown. They can be adequately served by a regional road.

MayoSalmon

road_high wrote: »

I travelled Dublin to Longford lately and it was more like 1.30 hrs via N4/M4- I wouldn't have thought 2 hours to east Mayo currently possible. The N4 Longford/Mullingar is impossible to make time on and N5 through Roscommon as you say is substandard after Strokestown.

Depends on what time of day I suppose...early morning/late evening is possible. Do it all the time.

1hour to Longford another hour to end of the Charleston bypass

Bray Head

When the M18 is finished residents of Castlebar, Westport and Ballina will be able to get to Dublin via the M6 (albeit with toll). They are already able to head south from Tulsk via Roscommon town to get to Dublin via Athlone. In my view this is already a more pleasant drive than using the N5 through Roscommon.

Oh and they still have a rail link too.

The N5 through Roscommon is awful but it simply does not have the traffic volumes or strategic purpose to justify an upgrade. There are dozens of ways of spending this amount of money on the road network in Ireland to have a greater impact.

road_high

Bray Head wrote: »

The N5 through Roscommon is awful but it simply does not have the traffic volumes or strategic purpose to justify an upgrade. There are dozens of ways of spending this amount of money on the road network in Ireland to have a greater impact.

I can see merit in it as a route and a lot has been sent on other sections already so no point doing half the job.

veryangryman

road_high wrote: »

I can see merit in it as a route and a lot has been sent on other sections already so no point doing half the job.

There is really. Longofrd and Ballaghadreen were the bottlenecks and thus prioritised. These are now eliminated. Very few hold ups on the road now, even in the poor sections.

MayoSalmon

veryangryman wrote: »

There is really. Longofrd and Ballaghadreen were the bottlenecks and thus prioritised. These are now eliminated. Very few hold ups on the road now, even in the poor sections.

Agree there is no hold ups on the road now,Roscommon section is dreadful though.

What should be the priority is M4/5 from Mullingar to Longford

marno21

Varadkar on about infrastructure spending again: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/varadkar-to-allocate-1bn-extra-for-infrastructural-spending-1.3137101

Article is behind paywall but he mentions the M20, motorways to the "north and north west" (presumably N2/A5) and Metro North.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Varadkar on about infrastructure spending again: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/varadkar-to-allocate-1bn-extra-for-infrastructural-spending-1.3137101

Article is behind paywall but he mentions the M20, motorways to the "north and north west" (presumably N2/A5) and Metro North.

Good to see this is his frame of mind. He's very much of the "teach a man to fish" school, rather than the endless welfare state SF et al want to destroy us all with.
Infrastructure pays dividends multiple times over and over a long long time.

marno21

Shane Ross wrote:

​As I outlined to the Deputy in my previous reply, I am seeking additional funding for public transport investment in the mid-term review of the Capital Plan and my Department has made a submission to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in this regard. The finalisation and publication of the mid-term review is a matter for my colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

More money for buses and unions so in the mid term review. With a bit of luck he will be over-ruled in this plan.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

marno21

jacksie66 wrote: »

Any news on the new Killaloe bridge and bypass?

CPO at present. DTTAS want to do it in stages so the new bridge is first, bypass & R494 upgrade to follow.

Should be done as one but you know..

medoc

Tullamore district councillors are calling for the N52 Tullamore Kilbeggan link road to be put back in the queue. Not the most pressing project in the country but still badly needed at peak hours.

http://www.tullamoretribune.ie/articles/news/59277

marno21

medoc wrote: »

Tullamore district councillors are calling for the N52 Tullamore Kilbeggan link road to be put back in the queue. Not the most pressing project in the country but still badly needed at peak hours.

http://www.tullamoretribune.ie/articles/news/59277

I've driven this once and it seemed like relatively ok single carraigeway, are they looking for a 2+2/dual carraigeway?

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

I've driven this once and it seemed like relatively ok single carraigeway, are they looking for a 2+2/dual carraigeway?

I could think of literally dozens of major and minor schemes that need attention before this. Some low cost remedial and surface works and signage could be something in the meantime, but to replace with 2+2 sounds like vanity spending- spend it on the N80 south of Tullamore, far more pressing needs and a bypass of Mountmellick

road_high

Deedsie wrote: »

Would a bypass of Birr not be a bigger priority for Offaly CoCo? The N52 is a terrible road in general but it is probably at its best around Tullamore?

It shouldn't be as it handles less traffic than the N80. Strategically less important. If there was a high quality N80 linking to the M7 then it would take pressure off the N52.