Government Capital Spending on Roads: 2016-2022

MayoSalmon

Nothing for the West??

Antarctica

hi5 wrote: »

Its good to see that so much has actually gone ahead.
Here's what was suspended back in 2011..

http://www.bypassslane.ie/Tuesday9thAug11.html
Projects in the pipeline that are now suspended . . .

M11 Enniscorthy to Gorey.

Isn`t that the one scheduled to start early end of this year / start of next year?

AugustusMinimus

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Nothing for the West??

The west is already getting the M17/M18 build which is the most expensive project currently under construction and has been guaranteed funding for the Galway bypass which will be the most expensive project in the near future.

At the end of both these projects, Galway will have motorway access to Tuam, Dublin and Limerick along with a bypass. Really not doing that badly at all.

In addition to those schemes, isn't there also a number of 2+2 schemes going ahead on the N5?

D Trent

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The west is already getting the M17/M18 build which is the most expensive project currently under construction and has been guaranteed funding for the Galway bypass which will be the most expensive project in the near future.

At the end of both these projects, Galway will have motorway access to Tuam, Dublin and Limerick along with a bypass. Really not doing that badly at all.

In addition to those schemes, isn't there also a number of 2+2 schemes going ahead on the N5?

F*cking yippee-I-yay for us

marno21

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Nothing for the West??

In the last PPP Prorgamme ye were given 2 schemes, M17/M18 and N6 Galway City Outer bypass. In addition the Westport-Castlebar dual carraigeway looks likely soon.

The west doesn't NEED any major schemes at the moment. The south does.

Antarctica

D Trent wrote: »

F*cking yippee-I-yay for us

All roads lead to Tuam.

MayoSalmon

marno21 wrote: »

In the last PPP Prorgamme ye were given 2 schemes, M17/M18 and N6 Galway City Outer bypass. In addition the Westport-Castlebar dual carraigeway looks likely soon.

The west doesn't NEED any major schemes at the moment. The south does.

Maybe I should of said North West....

L1011

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Maybe I should of said North West....

Mayo has got significantly improved access (Longford, Ballaghadereen built) and connections (M17 under construction, Westport-Castlebar planned, Strokestown in planning)

Sligo is likely to get the Castlebaldwin DC this time around I suspect. Donegal is unlikely to get anything until NI sorts itself out for the A5.

Deedsie

L1011 wrote: »

Mayo has got significantly improved access (Longford, Ballaghadereen built) and connections (M17 under construction, Westport-Castlebar planned, Strokestown in planning)

Sligo is likely to get the Castlebaldwin DC this time around I suspect. Donegal is unlikely to get anything until NI sorts itself out for the A5.

Is it not Ireland that withdrew the funding for the A5? Asking the question, not stating that.

Is there not a section of dual carriageway near Sligo due to be upgraded to motorway designation?

L1011

Deedsie wrote: »

Is it not Ireland that withdrew the funding for the A5? Asking the question, not stating that.

Yes. However, NI still needs it, so should be funding it. Due to their childish politics it won't be, though.

Deedsie wrote: »

Is there not a section of dual carriageway near Sligo due to be upgraded to motorway designation?

No, they aren't going to upgrade it as it'd be an isolated stretch.

annfield1978

I thought the N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin and N5 Westport to Turlough were going to tie up as a PPP?

Kildare would also be pushing the N7 Naas Widening Scheme what ever way would see it built

Other PPP N28 Ringaskiddy + Dunkettle Interchange

annfield1978

Perhaps Dart Underground split into two schemes to get it started as a PPP?

road_high

annfield1978 wrote: »

I thought the N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin and N5 Westport to Turlough were going to tie up as a PPP?

Kildare would also be pushing the N7 Naas Widening Scheme what ever way would see it built

Other PPP N28 Ringaskiddy + Dunkettle Interchange

Defo M7 needs doing soon.
As an aside, we need a major education programme on how to use the N7 correctly as its severely affecting capacity and traffic flows in my view. Any time I drive it, the Middle lane is packed solid with various dawdlers. While the lane to the left, where they should be, is virtually empty. In my opinion it'll be a waste spending to widen the M7 when it'll just a continuation of this behaviour. Rant over!

cgcsb

Don't really see the point in widening schemes. Most Irish Drivers can't/won't use the current 3 lane roads correctly as is. Capital spending on infrastructure will likely be diverted away from roads We have a number of broadband schemes, the currently under construction upgrade of the Hazelhatch-Portlaoise rail line. Dublin is really pushing to get Dart Underground and another luas/metro line at a cost of €4bn+€1bn. I wouldn't hold my breath for an M20.

L1011

Few weeks of severe enforcement and publishing the volume fined will sort it. Rather than it currently happening rarely.

The m7 and m4 are both at critical volume levels, its either widen or build another road out.

marno21

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/minister-examining-road-projects-for-funds/

Looks like the M20 may be back on the table.

marmurr1916

marno21 wrote: »

All the roads out of Dublin have been upgraded to a decent standard, most have been fully upgraded to what's needed.

Apart from the N2 (needs bypasses of Slane, Collon, Ardee and upgrade of road from Monaghan town to the border, including a bypass of Emyvale), the N3 (needs a bypass of Virginia, plus upgrades to route north and south of Virginia and section of N3 in Co. Donegal), N4 (needs major improvements from end of Mullingar bypass to Collooney, Co. Sligo, including a bypass of Carrick-on-Shannon, bypasses of other towns and villages), N5 (needs major improvements from Longford to Ballaghadeereen), N11 (needs bypass of Enniscorthy and improvements from southern end of proposed Enniscorthy bypass to its junction with N25, including bypass of Oylgate).

In other words, 5 out of the 11 national primary routes that radiate out from Dublin still need major work done to bring them up to the standard that would be expected of such routes in most north-western European countries.

marno21 wrote: »

Let's look at Cork:

N40: main interchange on this route is an at grade signalised roundabout. 3 other main junctions are... signalised roundabouts albeit not at grade. Douglas, a main destination along the route, has no westbound offramp or no eastbound on ramp. The North Ring Road has also not been built (there is a north ring road but it's a disgrace and completely unfit for purpose)

...

N20: completely sub par, needs M upgrade along 70km or so of its route.
N22: Macroom/Ballyvourney bypass looks on the way, to replace possibly the worst section of national primary route in this country. Macroom-Ballincollig will then become a bottleneck but at least the worst section of the road is sorted.
N25: Carrigtoohill-Midleton has had its median crossings blocked which has made it safer, 2+2 to Youghal would be an idea incorporating bypasses of Castlemartyr and Killeagh however definately not an immediate priority.
N27: South City Link is relatively good, perhaps grade seperation of some of the junctions may be considered if space permits.
N28: EU funding will hopefully sort out this mess.
N71: Should be dual carraigeway as far as Halfway/Inishannon. An Inishannon bypass may not be a bad call either as it blocks up quite often.

All of these projects are necessary especially M20 North, M20 South, N22 Ballyvourney - Macroom, N22 Ballincollig - Macroom and the N28, but unless there's 20+ schemes in this programme I can't see Cork getting more than 2 schemes, although Wexford did get 3/6 schemes out of the last programme (N25 + 2x M11 , others Newlands Cross, M17/M18 and N6 GCOB)

Can't disagree with any of this.

Other national primary routes that need to be upgraded are:

North West & West:

N12 - from its junction with N2 to border
N13 - from its junction with N14 to border
N14 - from its junction with N13 to border
N15 - from its junction with N14 to Donegal Town bypass, then from its Co. Leitrim section to Sligo
N16 - from Sligo to border
N17 - between Tuam and Claremorris, and from junction with road to Knock Airport to Collooney, Co. Sligo
N26 - entire route

N18 - final improvements underway, possibly future upgrade of dual-carriageway from Bunratty bypass to Limerick Tunnel approach

South:

N23 - entire route
N24 - entire route
N25 - new bypass of Dungarvan, bypass of New Ross, upgrade to 2+2 from Rosslare port to junction with N11, better overtaking opportunities (climbing lanes etc) on section between Youghal and Dungarvan
N30 - route between proposed New Ross bypass and proposed Enniscorthy bypass

East:

N33 - upgrade entire route to 2+2 between M1 and N2 at Ardee

In other words, large sections of pretty much all of the national primary route network, apart from a handful of largely completed routes between Dublin and provincial centres, and the N19/N18/M18 (either complete or underway), need to be upgraded to bring full routes up to the standards I'd expect to see in a prosperous European state.

Once that's done, we can get cracking on the national secondary routes, the regional routes and the most important local routes...

At this rate, Ireland won't have excellent roads at all levels of classification for another couple of decades.

tony1980

L1011 wrote: »

Few weeks of severe enforcement and publishing the volume fined will sort it. Rather than it currently happening rarely.

The m7 and m4 are both at critical volume levels, its either widen or build another road out.

I don't think I can continue using the M7 with the way things are currently and it's only going to get worse, back to using the train for me I think!

marno21

Apologies if stepping on toes here..

A poster on skyscrapercity has indicated 8 of the projects to be included in this programme (link)

N5 Ballaghadereen - Longford
M7 J9 - J11 widening to 3 lanes
N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange upgrade
M11 J4 - J6 widening to 3 lanes
M21/N69 Patrickswell to Foynes (incl. Adare bypass)

And the leftovers from the last PPP programme are also being included:

N6 Galway City outer bypass
M11 Enniscorthy bypass
N25 New Ross bypass

Very underwhelming IMO if true, 3 schemes that were part of the last programme, 2 short widening projects, 1 entirely EU-funded mandatory port scheme, leaving only Dunkettle and the N5, one of which is on the Taoiseach's road home and the other an interchange.

AugustusMinimus

Disgrace if the Foynes road gets done and the M28 doesn't. Shenanigans going on if this happens.

Subpopulus

Hmmm. I would think that the N28 would have to be on that list, given its importance in connecting a major port to the National Road network.

marno21

Subpopulus wrote: »

Hmmm. I would think that the N28 would have to be on that list, given its importance in connecting a major port to the National Road network.

Definitely.

Take out the 3 projects from the last PPP programme, two of which are at tender and will be starting construction in the next year, and the other which is going through a legal obstacle case and constant debates about how much it's needed and you're left with 5 schemes

* M21/N69 is being fully EU funded, and whilst an Adare bypass will make some happy, the fact is it wouldn't be done only for the fact that a much needed port access road is being snakily used to gain an Adare bypass.

* M7 widening is good to see and hopefully this includes J9A Osberstown at Millenium Park. Along with this and the M11 scheme, an education campaign will have to be launched about how to use 3 lane motorways/dual carraigeways, otherwise both projects will be wasted.

* M11 widening scheme will eliminate some delays from the M11 merge to the Bray North exit, however this project is a tiny one requiring little funding and is minature compared to the major projects in the last PPP programme. Not sure how much of a difference it'll make if the Bray North exit is already over capacity.

* N5 Ballaghadeeren-Longford should be accompanied by at least 3 other projects along the N2, N3, N4, N12, N13, N14, N15, N16, N20, N22, N23, N24 or N25. Long stretches of poor national primary route that are in major need of upgrading. Only one of these on the list is very, very disappointing.

* N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle: nothing new to be said here. should've been freeflow from the start. North Ring will be needed soon after though as it will put extra pressure on the N8 Lower Glanmire Road and also Douglas flyover, N28 and the Mahon exit on the N40.

Leonard Hofstadter

This is really crap if this is true. The ones announced several years ago (when the economy was much worse) were much more expensive and did more. Plus, three of the 'new' schemes were from the last announcement (but being recycled for the next election) - that's just pathetic and is the kind of thing FF would have done when in power.

There isn't a single extra mile of new motorway being proposed, the only motorway projects are widening existing motorways, which will be a complete and utter waste given the inability of we Irish to drive in the correct lane (which is the leftmost one for those unaware). I suppose knowing Ireland the three lane motorways will only have a speed limit of 100 km/h as well like what happens on the M50, a crazy state of affairs going backwards with lower speed limits rather than moving forwards with proper speed limits.

I just hope the real thing will have more than that, especially as Simon Coveney was saying recently that the M28 would be done 'much sooner' than the 6-7 years currently being proposed.

spacetweek

Sponge Bob submitted the list and he's usually spot on for the info - however he does say the above 5 are the only ones he can confirm, implying there may be more. Wait a bit longer.

spacetweek

captainspeed wrote: »

This is really crap if this is true. The ones announced several years ago (when the economy was much worse) were much more expensive and did more. Plus, three of the 'new' schemes were from the last announcement (but being recycled for the next election) - that's just pathetic and is the kind of thing FF would have done when in power.

Agreed.

captainspeed wrote: »

There isn't a single extra mile of new motorway being proposed, the only motorway projects are widening existing motorways, which will be a complete and utter waste given the inability of we Irish to drive in the correct lane (which is the leftmost one for those unaware). I suppose knowing Ireland the three lane motorways will only have a speed limit of 100 km/h as well like what happens on the M50, a crazy state of affairs going backwards with lower speed limits rather than moving forwards with proper speed limits.

I think the M21 Adare-Rathkeale might be motorway.
You haven't given a reason not to widen motorways - just a case for more education.
100k limits aren't crazy, they are necessary when you would rarely be able to go higher anyway due to traffic density, when you increase the number of lanes and therefore the amount of weaving (the only source of danger on a motorway) and when the alignment is poor. In any case the M11 at Fassaroe is winding and full of entrances and exits and should have a limit way lower than 100. The M7 Naas-Newbridge will probably stay at 120.

annfield1978

Surely N5 Westport to Turlough will be in the mix?

spacetweek

annfield1978 wrote: »

Surely N5 Westport to Turlough will be in the mix?

Yes - forgot about that - I thought that was the next N5 scheme?

KCAccidental

reading through the thread, this was also from Sponge Bob

I asked my contact about the N28 and the answer was that it may be bundled with Dunkettle (or a 'Phase 1 N28' as far as the Carrigaline Roundabout at any rate) so it was perhaps not listed on its own because of that.

After the Carrigaline Roundabout the attitude is that the port can pay some of the cost of widening to 2+2 if that is ever required ....and the suspicion is the stretch from Carrigaline Roundabout to the Port is just fine the way it is, the bottleneck is north of the Carrigaline Roundabout.

Both Dunkettle and the N28 qualify for 'dibs' on EU Transport/Cohesion funding at around 20-30% of the overall ESTIMATED project cost...but most likely no more than 25% of the total estimated cost. If they later drop Carrigaline - Ringaskiddy 'Phase 2' they get the same amount of EU money anyway it seems.

Seemingly EU Transport/Cohesion funding will not be disbursed for Ireland before 2018 earliest simply because the government made no request for earlier funding. Most EU Transport/Cohesion funding requested out to 2020 is for Dart Underground and only the Dunkettle/N28 and Adare/Foynes projects will qualify for roads funding this side of 2021 when the proposed Medium Term Capital Plan ends.

some of that would make sense.

loyatemu

If they're going to do the M11 hopefully they'll also do the planned improvement works as far as J8 (Kilmac) - these include distributor roads on both sides to allow the closure of a whole load of exits and private accesses including J6A (Enniskerry).

road_high

tony1980 wrote: »

I don't think I can continue using the M7 with the way things are currently and it's only going to get worse, back to using the train for me I think!

I only use it maybe a week or less and it just drives me demented. Pity anyone that has to endure that road everyday. But as I said before, poor lane discipline is a huge constraint.