New left wing party. Will it succeed?

Phoebas

According to the papers, we're going to get a new left of centre party in time for the GE.

Van Turnhout has already tweeted to say that's its news to her, but she may just be keeping her cards close to her chest.

Personally, I think that a move by independents away from permanent, no consequence, opposition and into the real world of a party, where they will have to agree a comprehensive set of policies, and possibly negotiate themselves into a government, is a good thing.

But will they get off the ground, can they raise the money they will need to fight a GE as a party, can they agree policies or will the first item on the agenda be the split?

And if they do get organised, who will they take votes from and who would they coalesce with?

Independent TDs Catherine Murphy, Stephen Donnelly and Róisín Shortall are about to set up a new political party.

The three TDs are linking up with Senators Katherine Zappone and Jillian van Turnhout, who are both the Taoiseach’s nominees in the Seanad.

Mr Donnelly confirmed talks about the setting up of the new party are under way.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-party-to-be-headed-by-murphy-donnelly-and-shortall-31293072.html

SoupyNorman

Lets hope it works out, with Stephen Donnelly and Catherine at the helm they’ll have my vote.

I wonder if they do gather a little steam would that ignite a round of defections?

SoupyNorman

Lets hope it works out, with Stephen Donnelly and Catherine at the helm they’ll have my vote.

I wonder if they do gather a little steam would that ignite a round of defections?

lundrum

I hope this is true. As a young person in Ireland, I really don't feel like any of the major political parties represent my views very well. I'm very interested in politics, but I can't bring myself to work with any of the political parties around my area. Hopefully this'll be a party that's actually different and not just the same with a different brand (*ahem* FF and FG *ahem*).

Icemancometh

Does anyone have an issue with two Taoiseach's nominees being involved in this grouping? It seems to me that during the Seanad referndum we had a lot of talk about using the Seanad for expertise for people who wouldn't get elected as TDs or otherwise be involved in politics. I'm worried that if Taoiseach's nominees become politically problematic for the sitting government, we'll see less diversity in appointments and more party hacks getting the nod instead.

BoJack Horseman

Labour already occupy that landscape, so aside from retaining those TD's their seats. I'm unsure as to its chances for larger success.

SoupyNorman

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Labour already occupy that landscape, so aside from retaining those TD's their seats. I'm unsure as to its chances for larger success.

There’s political ideology but there’s also political will, specifically in the area of true reform.

No better example of this DOB/IBRC shambles where Catherine Murphy had to move proverbial atlas stones to first be heard, to then be taken seriously and lastly to get a action. She’s achieved a lot but it’s taken a vast amount of time and resources to get there, and for what? What have FG to hide in all of this? There obtuseness on the matter only raises suspicions and the fact they EVENTUALLY relented to a commission of investigation is a very poor reflection on them.

Now, lets say Stephen and Co. were in power. What do you expect might happen? Personally I think a truly independent investigation would have launched on day one.

Ireland has only ever had ‘old guard’ politics, would be nice to have some people in charge that actually gave a sh1t about the actual people and not the preservation of their political dynasty.

BoJack Horseman

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Now, lets say Stephen and Co. were in power. What do you expect might happen? Personally I think a truly independent investigation would have launched on day one.

Great.... Another tribunal into the merits of why state owned banks arrive at the charged interest rate for their clients.

That's only about 2 million loans to investigate.... No problem at all.

(Leaving aside the fact that both Donnelly & Murphy campaigned against increasing the powers & abilities of oireachtas investigations!)

But even leaving that stupidity aside, looking at especially Donnelly's opposition to irelands economic improvement, there is nothing here to distinguish a these guys from the rest of the opposition noise.

At least Renua are trying to build a party organically..... If these 3 just want to create a brand to make reelection easier, I won't be impressed... Time will tell of course.

the groutch

once they don't get Averil Power or Healy-Eames involved they'll be fine.

hmmm

The economy is growing, confidence is returning, people see opportunities for themselves in the workplace. Leftwing politics (tax workers, distribute the money to the "vulnerable") doesn't play well in this sort of environment - people might feel vulnerable in a downturn, and are happy to attach themselves to left-wing politicians who advocate getting someone else to pay their mortgage, but in an upturn the last thing most people want is someone threatening to increase their taxes and hand it out to the rump who don't have a job.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Perhaps agreed on the 'lack of a need' but Donelly et-al aren't going to join Labour and rise to the top in record time. This is a bit of a land-grab imo, and is quite tactically astute.

I think that instead of joining and gazzumping, we're looking at the beginnings of a 'New Labour' re-write of similar policies. Destroy all legacy/historical baggage and start again with similar policies and more impressive faces/politicians.

Now that I've said this, they'll clearly go on to totally and utter fall flat and this post will be a 'look how wrong that guy got it'.

nice_guy80

The more parties, the better in my view.

Phoebas

They are leaving it far too late imo to have any real impact in the next election.
They'll end up fighting it with half developed policies and no policies at all agreed across a range of policy areas.

They will leave themselves open to people poking holes in what they do present without the benefits that independents traditionally have of being able to be against policies they don't like (usually anything that limits public spending) without having to put forward costed alternatives.

Phoebas

the groutch wrote: »

once they don't get Averil Power or Healy-Eames involved they'll be fine.

Averil Power might be a fit and she needs a vehicle in Dublin Bay North.

the groutch

Phoebas wrote: »

Averil Power might be a fit and she needs a vehicle in Dublin Bay North.

a bandwagon?

Phoebas

the groutch wrote: »

a bandwagon?

Cynic!

But yeah - she would have been in with a good shout with FF behind her, but as in Ind, she's competing with the likes of Finian McGrath, who for some reason is very popular.
She'd be a high profile figure in this new party if she could convince herself that she's 'left' enough.

laoch na mona

it's hard to say what level of support this party could achieve, there is defiantly space for a new 'centre' left party (most of the so called far left are fairly centre. their economic policy is by and large modified keynesian economics. I also wouldn't have considered Catherine murphy ex workers party center left) the labour vote has been hit hard so a centre left party could take some of their support

desertcircus

If they play their cards right, they could be in a strong position in the next Dail. Labour picked up a hell of a lot of votes last time out, and while they'll be losing a lot of those at the next election, they won't lose many for being too leftwing. There's a lot of space for a party to the left of where Labour currently stand.

That said, it's space currently occupied by the Greens, who have quietly regathered and rebuilt over the last few years and are capturing a huge share of the under-30 demographic.

nice_guy80

desertcircus wrote: »

If they play their cards right, they could be in a strong position in the next Dail. Labour picked up a hell of a lot of votes last time out, and while they'll be losing a lot of those at the next election, they won't lose many for being too leftwing. There's a lot of space for a party to the left of where Labour currently stand.

That said, it's space currently occupied by the Greens, who have quietly regathered and rebuilt over the last few years and are capturing a huge share of the under-30 demographic.

Really?
Where's the evidence for that?

desertcircus

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Really?
Where's the evidence for that?

No formal evidence, I'm afraid. Just a pattern I noticed in the last couple of years among the people I knew from college - where my generation's future candidates gravitated towards FF, FG and Labour, the cohort a few years later is throwing up a lot more Greens.

curioser

New party's policy priorities -

1. Double the price of drink

That is all.

otoolepw

do we really need more splinter party nonsense? so we can't bring about change from within then it's lets bail and create a factional interest party.

DEFTLEFTHAND

There's a need for another left wing party?

jank

Just a grab for the middle class left wing vote that Labour usually get but this time there will be a 'protest' vote against Labour, even though their voters don't know how well they have done in protecting their interests.

ackyboi

whether it'll be successful or not, a new leftist party would be a welcome addition to the irish political landscape. Labour can hardly claim to be left, they're the most right wing party in the country by now

jank

ackyboi wrote: »

whether it'll be successful or not, a new leftist party would be a welcome addition to the irish political landscape. Labour can hardly claim to be left, they're the most right wing party in the country by now

Eh what?

BoJack Horseman

ackyboi wrote: »

whether it'll be successful or not, a new leftist party would be a welcome addition to the irish political landscape. Labour can hardly claim to be left, they're the most right wing party in the country by now

Agreed (on the proviso that neither of us know what 'right wing' means).

Donnelly is smart, Murphy is tenacious. Shortall is a idiot though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Power come in either. She's be a good fit.

Donnelly will get my vote again though, as I trust him. I saw him give speeches on equality funding before and I absolutely admire his stance on actually researching how measures will affect people in the budget instead of lashing it out with no concern how it will affect the public.t

I know he's in favour of budgets being released to other members of the oireachteas before budget day so submissions can be informed and discussed unlike these days where it's all a big "Surprise!"

Quin_Dub

They aren't a party though...

However impressive people might feel that Donnelly or Murphy are , that doesn't make them a party

Would people vote for random candidate X because they were in the Donnelly/Murphy Party??

Highly unlikely..

For now, it's just a vehicle to increase the profile of the 2 or 3 head-line members...

mrduffy

the green party is as green as the paper green.
1948 forestry act should be abolished.
More sustainable payments for people with forests

SoupyNorman

mrduffy wrote: »

the green party is as green as the paper green.
1948 forestry act should be abolished.
More sustainable payments for people with forests

Eh, thanks for that.

mrduffy

Are we sustainable with carbon and carbon credits definetly no and much of the western world. We are balancing budgets but not carbon budgets why not ?

Phoebas

mrduffy wrote: »

Are we sustainable with carbon and carbon credits definetly no and much of the western world. We are balancing budgets but not carbon budgets why not ?

I think you're posting in the wrong thread.

Quin_Dub

last_one_left wrote: »

why would we need yet another left wing party , we have not one single proper unashamedly conservative party

I'd agree with you to a certain extent - The Irish political landscape is fairly well stocked from the far left over to slightly right of centre..Nothing much further right though..

I'm not sure that there is much appetite for for a truly right-wing party though..The entitlement culture here ensures that...

Riskymove

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'm not sure that there is much appetite for for a truly right-wing party though..The entitlement culture here ensures that...

In my experience Irish people in discussions like this only view "Right wing" in the socially conservative perspective.

I.e. someone opposing divorce, contraception, abortion etc is "right wing"


I really don't think there is any great support for other "right wing ideologies" other than perhaps when it comes to taxation and business (and then only from a perceived personal gain from lower tax or similar)

I doubt there are any great numbers looking to support far-right policies about nationalism, immigration etc.

Quin_Dub

Riskymove wrote: »

In my experience Irish people in discussions like this only view "Right wing" in the socially conservative perspective.

I.e. someone opposing divorce, contraception, abortion etc is "right wing"


I really don't think there is any great support for other "right wing ideologies" other than perhaps when it comes to taxation and business (and then only from a perceived personal gain from lower tax or similar)

I doubt there are any great numbers looking to support far-right policies about nationalism, immigration etc.

last_one_left wrote: »

what holds back the formation of a true conservative party in this country is our media , its vehemently left wing of some shade or other

the term " conservative " is the ultimate insult when it comes to public discourse in this country

I don't disagree , but unless you are talking about Libertarianism , what Fiscally right wing party that is not also socially right wing is out there as an example for people as a reference point??

Skylinehead

the groutch wrote: »

once they don't get Averil Power or Healy-Eames involved they'll be fine.

Fidelma Healy-Eames? Left wing? Not a hope of that one happening, she's further right than any party.

Robert McGrath

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I don't disagree , but unless you are talking about Libertarianism , what Fiscally right wing party that is not also socially right wing is out there as an example for people as a reference point??

I know they're gone but the PD's?

Quin_Dub

Robert McGrath wrote: »

I know they're gone but the PD's?

Probably , but in terms of an example of what a new party might look at it's not a great example...

last_one_left

last_one_left wrote: »

why would we need yet another left wing party , we have not one single proper unashamedly conservative party

We don't have a political party that is unashamedly communist either, but I doubt you think we need one.

Just because an ideology is an ideology doesn't mean it deserves a political party.

There is no "unashamedly conservative" political party because there is no market for one.

Free market, innit.

For Reals

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Labour already occupy that landscape, so aside from retaining those TD's their seats. I'm unsure as to its chances for larger success.

They pay lip service to it at any rate.

For Reals

hmmm wrote: »

The economy is growing, confidence is returning, people see opportunities for themselves in the workplace. Leftwing politics (tax workers, distribute the money to the "vulnerable") doesn't play well in this sort of environment - people might feel vulnerable in a downturn, and are happy to attach themselves to left-wing politicians who advocate getting someone else to pay their mortgage, but in an upturn the last thing most people want is someone threatening to increase their taxes and hand it out to the rump who don't have a job.

To expand upon your generalisation.
It's sad to see we may be heading back to business as usual...roll on the next bust I suppose.

PopePalpatine

last_one_left wrote: »

why would we need yet another left wing party , we have not one single proper unashamedly conservative party

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

We don't have a political party that is unashamedly communist either, but I doubt you think we need one.

Just because an ideology is an ideology doesn't mean it deserves a political party.

There is no "unashamedly conservative" political party because there is no market for one.

Free market, innit.

Off the top of my head, for "unashamedly conservative" parties there's the Catholic "Democrats" and the Christian Solidarity Party. As for "unashamedly communist", there is an actual Communist Party of Ireland...and yes, as you'd expect, they don't get much support. I'm not sure if People Before Profit, the Socialist Workers Party or the Anti-Austerity Alliance count as "unashamedly communist".

Icemancometh

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Off the top of my head, for "unashamedly conservative" parties there's the Catholic "Democrats" and the Christian Solidarity Party. As for "unashamedly communist", there is an actual Communist Party of Ireland...and yes, as you'd expect, they don't get much support. I'm not sure if People Before Profit, the Socialist Workers Party or the Anti-Austerity Alliance count as "unashamedly communist".

Given Joe Higgins' Trotskyite background and the absence of any mentions of Trotskyism, Marxism or Communism from any of their campaigns, you might say the SP are ashamedly communist.

Rabo Karabekian

I would never have placed Donnelly on the left wing spectrum. I know talking about left and right, especially in Ireland, is like walking in a swamp, but wouldn't his politics be economically free market and socially liberal? I would've thought his natural inclination would be towards a centre/centre right party.

As for Higgins being a communist because of his previous affiliations, I'm not sure that's fair. Most of the Labour leadership were hardline communists in their day, but certainly aren't anymore.

I'd put Donnelly to the right in terms of economics, but to the left socially.

It's why I like him. Fact based solutions that take people into account.

For Forks Sake

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

We don't have a political party that is unashamedly communist either, but I doubt you think we need one.

.

http://www.communistpartyofireland.ie/

PopePalpatine

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Off the top of my head, for "unashamedly conservative" parties there's the Catholic "Democrats" and the Christian Solidarity Party. As for "unashamedly communist", there is an actual Communist Party of Ireland...and yes, as you'd expect, they don't get much support. I'm not sure if People Before Profit, the Socialist Workers Party or the Anti-Austerity Alliance count as "unashamedly communist".

For Forks Sake wrote: »

http://www.communistpartyofireland.ie/

I had thought the Communist Party's registration on the official register had lapsed, apparently not.

Anyway, there's nothing inherently wrong with being a communist, nor indeed is there anything inherently wrong about being an "unashamed conservative".

There just isn't a significant market for either.

Xenophile

Phoebas wrote: »

Averil Power might be a fit and she needs a vehicle in Dublin Bay North.

Sounds good to me !

SoupyNorman

Deleted User wrote: »

...Fact based solutions that take people into account.

And hold people to account, hopefully.