Am I being screwed over by my landlord?

WychWillow

Sorry for the length of the post but I want to give as much detail as I can so I can get some advice and help.

My family have been living an a rented property for almost two years (lease was up for renewal at the end of June). When we first moved into the property we had 2 cats and 1 dog (whippet) which we told the landlord and letting agent about while we were viewing the house. This was acceptable by our landlord and there is also nothing in our lease about us not being able to own pets.

Three months after we moved into the property we took in two rescue puppies (huskies), while we were in the process of toilet training them one of them did some damage to the floor in the front room in the way of urine stains, there are also some scratches to the front room floor. There are some scratches to 2 of the internal doors, 1 window sill, and again some urine staining on 1 piece of skirting board in the kitchen and one in the hallway, the bottom stair also has some chew marks on the corner of it.

Now when we first moved into the property there was already scratches on the doors in question and the window sill, my dogs just added to the damage already there, the bottom stair was already chewed, my dogs did not do this damage. I emailed the estate agent when we first moved in detailing this damage already present on the property and she came round and made a list of all damage done before we arrived.

We have had inspections every 4 months and had no problem, the estate agent saw the new dogs and again said nothing about them. Then in January a new woman from the agents came to do our inspection, she said she had never been into the property before but was told it wasn't finished to the highest of standards, she took photos of the floors and doors in question then left. Two weeks later we get a phone call saying our landlord was back in the country and wanted to have a look at the damage himself. The first appointment he missed so he ended up coming at the beginning of February. We walked around with him for almost 2 hours, pointed out all the damage and said we had no problem paying for any damage we had done, we also said that there was some damage done previous to us moving in, he denied this and said everything was new when we first moved in, our dogs did all the damage. We asked him about our lease being renewed as we need to stay in the area for our children's schooling, he said he had no problem renewing the lease but would prefer it if we kept the huskies outside. He also said he would be arranging for a carpenter to come and give a quote for the damage.

After he left we spent hundreds of euros making a pen for our dogs, they were outside within the week. I also called the estate agents and requested a copy or the list of damages done prior to us moving in, I was told they had lost the list. We heard nothing back from the landlord or the agent, so assumed that as the dogs had been put out and there was no further damage being done everything was fine.

The on Friday 5th June, the agents called us saying the landlord and a carpenter would be coming to the house on Sunday morning. When they arrived they both had a list of damages that my landlord wanted repairing, and again we said we had no problem paying for the damage that we had caused. They were both very abrupt and making snide and sarcastic comments while they were here. While they were walking around the landlord and carpenter both agreed that because one door needed replacing then all the wood surrounding the door and saddle board needs replacing too so the colours would match. The same with the skirting board, because 1 foot length metre needed replacing all the skirting in the kitchen and hallway would need replacing, same with the stairs, the bottom one needs replacing so he wants them all replacing, he stated that this was our cost to cover. I asked for a copy of his list and was told he would get one too me, I have since asked around 8 times and still do not have this list. We again asked him about the lease as there was only 3 weeks left on it, he said he wasn't going to decide anything until at least Friday as that is when he was expecting the carpenters quote to come in.

Tuesday afternoon we received a letter from the agents, it was an eviction notice with the reason being the tenants do not comply with the obligation of the tenancy, there was another letter with it saying he was willing to give us a 2 month lease after the eviction day if we agreed to pay the quote when it came in and move the huskies outside. (The dogs we had already done)

Today I got a phone call from him stating that the quote had come back and it was for 4,300, we have until August 4th to pay him this amount or the eviction notice stands. We explained that we don't have that kind of money and would he be willing to accept a payment deal added onto our rent. He told us no but he would be willing to guarantee a loan for us for that said amount so we could pay him in full. The estate agents told me yesterday that they now have the list of damages prior to when we moved in but are unable to provide me with a copy of it without my landlords permission. Also I have been told by my landlord if I argue or quibble over the amount then any resolution to our lease isn't going to be possible.

I feel like I am being screwed over by both my landlord and estate agents regarding this whole matter. So really I want to know if what is happening is allowed and what I should do about it?

Again sorry for such a long post but its really stressing me out now.

athtrasna

As you have been there for that length of time you have part iv tenancy rights. There are limited conditions under which you can be evicted. The eviction notice you received was thus illegal.

Having said that, the level of damage you admit being liable for is unacceptable in my opinion. You have a responsibility to respect your landlord 's property and that clearly hasn't happened so I can understand their distress.

I would advise a call to threshold to get further advice.

WychWillow

I appreciate that the damage we caused is unacceptable, and I have never said anything to him other than that. I have also said to him many times now that I am more than willing to pay for any damage that I have caused, but as I also stated there was already damage there and not all of it is for me to pay for surely? Especially not just to make the house cosmetically look brand new as he has stated to us previously.

Stheno

WychWillow wrote: »

I appreciate that the damage we caused is unacceptable, and I have never said anything to him other than that. I have also said to him many times now that I am more than willing to pay for any damage that I have caused, but as I also stated there was already damage there and not all of it is for me to pay for surely? Especially not just to make the house cosmetically look brand new as he has stated to us previously.

I'd be taking the view that while there was some previous damage, the further damage you have caused has led to the repair or replacement being needed and you are responsible for that

WychWillow

Stheno wrote: »

I'd be taking the view that while there was some previous damage, the further damage you have caused has led to the repair or replacement being needed and you are responsible for that

Again I have no issue with paying for damage that I caused, but am I liable to pay for 13 stairs to be replaced because the bottom one needs replacing, again with the skirting, is all of it needed to be replaced because of one small section, with the doors, does all the wood surrounding the doors need to be replacing because the door is being replaced and am I liable to cover these costs, not just the costs of the damage caused.

marlie2005

"They were both very abrupt and making snide and sarcastic comments while they were here. While they were walking around the landlord and carpenter both agreed that because one door needed replacing then all the wood surrounding the door and saddle board needs replacing too so the colours would match. The same with the skirting board, because 1 foot length metre needed replacing all the skirting in the kitchen and hallway would need replacing, same with the stairs, the bottom one needs replacing so he wants them all replacing, he stated that this was our cost to cover. I asked for a copy of his list and was told he would get one too me"

This part sticks out at me, He wants to change the skirting so that the colours would match ??? I think you should talk to PRTB and find out your entitlements.

Stheno

What about the windowsill and stained floor? What's being done with those?


And are the stairs/skirting varnished or painted?

ShaShaBear

This is why it is necessary that all potential tenants take dated photographs of the condition of a letting before moving in and show them to the landlord/agent so that they know you have proof you did not cause it.

As it stands you have three dogs, two of which are very high energy, large pups and a cat (which, though small, can do serious damage in a house). You should have explicitly asked the landlord to write into the lease that pets were accepted, not just left it that no mention of them and his verbal agreement was the same thing.

You have absolutely no proof that the prior damage was not, in fact, caused by you. He can't, however, take you for a ride with quotes - whether he is holding you responsible for all the damage or not.

Yes, the notice of eviction is illegal. But given the substantial damage your pets have caused to the property, chances are once he's realised he is doing it wrong, he will seek advice and figure out how to do it right. And you can kiss your deposit goodbye as well. I'd advise looking for somewhere else to live. Expect it to be extremely difficult with that many pets, though. Especially without a good reference to back up their behaviour.

WychWillow

As for proof that prior damage wasn't caused by me, the estate agents has a list of damage already on the property before we moved in, this includes damage to the doors we are going to be replacing, damage to window sills, the chewed bottom stair and a few others things besides, these are all things the landlord is claiming we are 100% responsible for. Although I do not have that list from the agents I do have an email which I sent the day we moved in stating this damage and a reply from the agents acknowledging it and making an appointment to come out and see it.

The stairs and skirting is varnished. The floor is a wooden floor, we asked if it could be sanded and varnished, the landlord said no he wants a new floor.

oppenheimer1

In my honest opinion, that number of pets is unacceptable in a rented house and only asking for trouble.

That said it does sound like your landlord is either A) very upset at the damaged caused to his property or taking you for a ride.

A proper carpenter/decorator would be able to sort out those problems by replacing sections and do it in such a way that it would be seamless. The quote you've been given sounds excessive, given that a landlord is not entitled to have a tenant replace all damaged fittings for new, he's only allowed to deduct for fair wear and tear.

dialer

I would seek assistance of free legal aid or at least have a one off with a solicitor.

Proving undue care of the property may be difficult, but the common sense aspect of 3 animals in an rented urban location may go against you to some degree, even without a pet clause in the agreement.

The repairs appear excessive, and while wear & tear of any property given its age and rental in years it seems the landlord is overhauling the unit.

I think a professional mediator would iorn out emotional issues over repair costs here.

ShaShaBear

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

In my honest opinion, that number of pets is unacceptable in a rented house and only asking for trouble.

That said it does sound like your landlord is either A) very upset at the damaged caused to his property or taking you for a ride.

A proper carpenter/decorator would be able to sort out those problems by replacing sections and do it in such a way that it would be seamless. The quote you've been given sounds excessive, given that a landlord is not entitled to have a tenant replace all damaged fittings for new, he's only allowed to deduct for fair wear and tear.

I'd probably say a mix of both. I'd be horrified and very upset if MY dog did that kind of damage. As it stands, he chewed some wallpaper off the wall in our living room - we instantly bought matching paper and redid that entire section of the wall. He totally stained the carpet from running in and outside, so we put down a wooden floor.
If he had wrecked doors and window sills and left stains from urinating, I'd have to fix it immediately. I'm in no way house-proud, but I would shudder at having people see my house in that condition.

If you knew the dogs did it, and you had no problem covering costs, you should have dealt with it immediately. I don't blame him for being upset!

Michelle_b

I totally agree with the last post... I think you need a legal letter. Free legal aid or something. You are a fair tenant as in you have no issue paying for repairs but the landlord does sound like he wants you to redo his place! It is excessive and why can't you get your own carpenter in to fix the areas? Plus a legal letter can request the original damage information from estate agents... Protect yourselves. I would also say if possible find somewhere else.... It sounds like he is not going make your lives easy living there. I know ye have four animals... ( I have three) but there is places that will accept just to have search. Good luck with everything and hope it gets sorted for ye

WychWillow

I don't live in an urban area, I live way out in the sticks in a tiny little village,

I have around an acre of land with the property and the huskies are outside on that land and have been since February. There is a local shop that sells second hand furniture and she had around 10 of the doors I needed in perfect condition in, I asked my landlord if I could get a couple of these to replace the doors in question, but he wants brand new ones.

As for dealing with the damage immediately, we did tell the agents, and showed them the damage when they did the inspections over the last year and a half, they have always said that the floor wasn't in perfect condition in the first place so it wasn't a pressing concern, the same with the other damage. When the landlord visited in February he was supposed to get a carpenter out for a quote then, and we would arrange payment for the damage to be repaired. We heard nothing from them for 4-5 months and didn't call someone out ourselves as he wanted to get the quote done.

WychWillow

<MOD SNIP>

My landlord lives and works in the UK, he was over here visiting his family when I mentioned him being back in the country.

I'll try and post pictures, I'm not sure if I'll be able as I've not got enough posts.

Stheno

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I'd probably say a mix of both. I'd be horrified and very upset if MY dog did that kind of damage. As it stands, he chewed some wallpaper off the wall in our living room - we instantly bought matching paper and redid that entire section of the wall. He totally stained the carpet from running in and outside, so we put down a wooden floor.
If he had wrecked doors and window sills and left stains from urinating, I'd have to fix it immediately. I'm in no way house-proud, but I would shudder at having people see my house in that condition.

If you knew the dogs did it, and you had no problem covering costs, you should have dealt with it immediately. I don't blame him for being upset!

I'd also be wondering about smell in the house. I've had lots of dogs in the past, and never had them leave stains on a wooden surface through toilet accidents and I've had old incontinent dogs, so for them to leave stains in multiple places in the house would indicate to me that there is a residual smell lingering also

maradonnaie

If you emailed a list to the letting agent in the beginning about the damage that was there previously I'm assuming they can't make you pay for that also that's just my opinion though. Hope you get it sorted especially since you've been so willing to cover costs and honest about it all. Good luck

WychWillow

Stheno wrote: »

I'd also be wondering about smell in the house. I've had lots of dogs in the past, and never had them leave stains on a wooden surface through toilet accidents and I've had old incontinent dogs, so for them to leave stains in multiple places in the house would indicate to me that there is a residual smell lingering also

There is no smell in the house, maybe I misworded it by saying stains, its more that the varnish has come up of the floor a little in one area, so the wood itself isn't stained, same with the skirting, just the varnish is tarnish and has come up a little, the wood underneath is fine. After the accidents happened the urine was removed and the areas were bleached. So I'm not entirely sure if its the urine that caused the problem or me using bleach to clean the area. Either way I have admitted responsibility for this patch of damage, the same with the skirting board.

antoinolachtnai

What you received was a termination notice, not an eviction notice. These are two completely different things.

PRTB is the best avenue for you. I would talk to Threshold first.

You need to organise all your paperwork. You need to prepare a conprehensive witness statement.

You need to have alternative quotations for everything.

I think your proposals for repairs are reasonable enough but I don't know the details. I would bring your proposals to PRTB and allow him to explain there what is wrong with your proposals.

The_Conductor

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

a landlord is not entitled to have a tenant replace all damaged fittings for new, he's only allowed to deduct for fair wear and tear.

Wrong.
A landlord is not entitled to deduct anything from a tenants deposit for fair (or normal) wear and tear. A landlord is only allowed deduct from a tenant's deposit for any damage over and above normal wear and tear. It also does not state anywhere that replaced fittings have to be replaced with old or recycled fittings. If you've gotten away with this in the past- you've been lucky- you have no entitlement to expect this.

OP- bringing so many pets into a rented house was asking for trouble- and then keeping huskies, of all things, indoors- was completely taking the piss.

A good carpenter could very possibly do reparatory work in a relatively seamless manner- but I have paid 2k to repair a wooden varnished block floor in the past- to suggest its necessarily a cheap option- isn't like pulling straws and hoping for the best.

It sounds like you had significant fittings which were varnished wood- into which you've introduced 4-5 clawed animals (including a cat and two huskies) for a protracted period of time.

If I were the landlord- after I'd stopped crying from the shock of seeing the damage- I'd do whatever I possibly could to restore the woodwork to its previous form.

Even if there was minor damage to one step on the stairs- and a couple of scratches on a door- you've gone and allowed 4-5 clawed pets- including the cat and the huskies- run wild in a property of this nature.........

Why on earth did you think it was fine to keep animals in a property with varnished floors etc- who hadn't even been toilet trained?

The bill from the landlord does seem on the high side- but having had to pay for similar reparatory work in the past- entirely plausible.

It is not your prerogative that small sections of the skirting, steps on the stairs, parts of the wooden floor etc be fixed- they'd very likely be a different colour to the other ones. I'm staring at a 'fix' that one tenant did on a floor as I type this- it was a replacement of terracotta tiles- that patently do not match the antique tiles surrounding them (they were expensive antique tiles- that the tenant smashed with heavy gym equipment- that they thought would be fine- I could get replacements even now- but they're over a hundred per tile........

Just because a lease doesn't expressly forbid you from doing something- does not mean you have carte blanche to go ahead and do it........

Its difficult for tenants to rent property when they have a menagerie of pets- precisely because of the pets destroying the place in the manner yours have done. Normally- if/when a tenant has a pet- there is an additional pet deposit taken to cover any damage the pets make. Or 4-5 separate deposits- in the case of your 4-5 animals. Those deposits might not be too far off the bill the landlord has come up with?

Viper_JB

To me it sounds like he just wants you out OP, he's offered you an out really by saying give me €4300 or you will be evicted, I'd imagine being evicted and renting somewhere else would be much cheaper at this point, of course you'll be saying good bye to the deposit. But if they want you out they can make things very uncomfortable for you there, will just be another problem as soon as this one is sorted.

Michael D Not Higgins

Viper_JB wrote: »

To me it sounds like he just wants you out OP, he's offered you an out really by saying give me €4300 or you will be evicted, I'd imagine being evicted and renting somewhere else would be much cheaper at this point, of course you'll be saying good bye to the deposit. But if they want you out they can make things very uncomfortable for you there, will just be another problem as soon as this one is sorted.

I'd say finding somewhere that will accept 5 animals as part of the tenancy will be the problem.

Wabbit Ears

On some of the points the OP made,

I had to replace some painted skirting recently and simply could not get the exact same skirting that was put in originally, In this case ALL skirting needed to be replaced in the room.
If the skirting is varnished then new skirting will look different even if its the same style exactly, You cant replace a section, you need to replace all of it.

You cant replace one wooden stair if the wood is exposed. On a carpeted stair it doest matter, but visible wood would be noticeably different and would require all stairs replacing. This is an expensive job as all the wood would been to be cut to size, bevelled and finished.

Also, with wood floor you cant replace one section, Its almost physically impossible due to the way its connected. Laminate is easier but also can be extremely troublesome to replace one section, You would have to take the whole room up and re-lay the laminate and you would also need to have spares from the same original batch or you may as well replace it all.

The quote isn't unreasonable at all IMHO.

Also, if something is damaged and you damage it more its your responsibility to have it all repaired. you have absolutely no leg to stand on with your stance on this. Seriously, its like me crashing into someones car and refusing to get a panel replaced because it already had a ding in it!!!

The_Conductor

Viper_JB wrote: »

To me it sounds like he just wants you out OP, he's offered you an out really by saying give me €4300 or you will be evicted, I'd imagine being evicted and renting somewhere else would be much cheaper at this point, of course you'll be saying good bye to the deposit. But if they want you out they can make things very uncomfortable for you there, will just be another problem as soon as this one is sorted.

The OP is not going to find another property where they can keep 2 cats, a whippet and 2 huskies. Its simply not going to happen. If they do intend to stay- they will have to bite the bullet and organise perhaps to pay back the cost of restorative work over a period of time.

Come on- a Whippet, 2 cats and 2 huskies- in a house with a significant amount of bare varnished wood floors, stairs and other fittings? It was a very bad idea at the outset- and adding in the huskies after the fact- to be honest I actually started laughing in disbelief when I read that part........

If the tenant intends to stay there long term- just bite the bullet and agree a repayment scheme with the landlord. If they're not- then get out asap- before the animals do fresh damage to the restored stairs, doors, walls, skirting, floors etc.

Dispute it all you like- but all the landlord has to do is produce the invoice from the repair crew to the PRTB- and its irrefutable.

Whatever about the 2 cats and the whippet at the start- what notion got into you that you thought it a good idea to introduce 2 huskies into a house with fittings like this? The fact that they're now outdoors- is irrelevant.

Viper_JB

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I'd say finding somewhere that will accept 5 animals as part of the tenancy will be the problem.

I'd agree, but I'd imagine things will only get worse where they are at the moment.

The_Conductor

Viper_JB wrote: »

I'd agree, but I'd imagine things will only get worse where they are at the moment.

Very probably. If there are no other properties locally that they can find- they may have to stay though- and make the best of a bad situation.

I'm horrified by this. The disregard for another's persons property by bringing this many animals into it! And more importantly to me, the disregard for the animals, particularly the husky pups, by taking them on without your own secure accommodation. There are pounds and shelters around the country bursting at the seams with animals that people brought into rented homes and were then told they couldn't keep, and others whose owners simply couldn't find a rented home that would allow their pet to stay with them. You should have gotten explixit permission directly from your LL before you even considered the pups. And then had some kind of plan in place to ensure they could stay with you if your LL did need you to vacate at some stage. I agree with others who said you need to do whatever you can to sort this, regardless of how unreasonable it may seem to you because you have very little hope of finding another LL that will allow this many animals.

foggy_lad

WychWillow wrote: »

I don't live in an urban area, I live way out in the sticks in a tiny little village,

I have around an acre of land with the property and the huskies are outside on that land and have been since February. There is a local shop that sells second hand furniture and she had around 10 of the doors I needed in perfect condition in, I asked my landlord if I could get a couple of these to replace the doors in question, but he wants brand new ones.

As for dealing with the damage immediately, we did tell the agents, and showed them the damage when they did the inspections over the last year and a half, they have always said that the floor wasn't in perfect condition in the first place so it wasn't a pressing concern, the same with the other damage. When the landlord visited in February he was supposed to get a carpenter out for a quote then, and we would arrange payment for the damage to be repaired. We heard nothing from them for 4-5 months and didn't call someone out ourselves as he wanted to get the quote done.

This is what I don't understand, What are you doing keeping any animals indoors at all when there is a natural alternative! you can be dam sure your Landlord or agent would not have anything to say if the animals were outside from the start!

What in tarnation were you doing getting two Huskies when you don't have a place to keep them?? I know that a rented property is that persons home but there are still limits to what can and should never be done in such a property and keeping dogs indoors is a massive NO.

WychWillow

First regarding the post about my dogs welfare and there being pounds bursting at the seams with dogs, these two dogs in question were rescue dogs, one was thrown out of a car window when she was 8 weeks old, the other was tied up with an electric shock collar that was up so high all his neck was burnt and scarred and was set to be put down because the owner just didn't want him, so I have given my dogs life, and they are part of my family and in no way have I disregarded their welfare and take offence to that comment.

Secondly, I have a brain disease so am quite sick, I can't work and my partner works from home, at NO time are any of my pets left unattended in the house. They are taken on around a 1 mile walk 3-4 times a day by either myself, my partner or my 2 teenage children. So again when they were inside the house it was mainly to sleep and eat, not run around wild like you are imaging. There is also only one wooden varnished floor in the house, that is the front room, the rest of the house is white porcelain tiles, there is NO damage to any of the other flooring.

As for the payment, I have offered many times to pay the figure off over a longer period of time, I haven't disputed with the landlord the fact that the damage is there or that we caused it, I haven't disputed that the whole floor will need replacing, what I have disputed with him is that fact that he said he would do this in February and we have heard nothing until now, 3 weeks when our lease is due, also that he said was going to renew the lease twice to us and then went down this road of give me 4,300 in a few weeks time or you're evicted. He won't allow me access to a list he prepared in February of the damage he wants repairing, he won't allow me to get my own quote.

The main issue is I don't trust my landlord, he lies. He told us there is a well on the property for 1 and a half years, then when asked what we should tell the water company for the water charges he told us there was no well. He's told me we are the first tenants in this house, even though all our neighbours told us he had a young German man in for almost a year who trashed his house and he couldn't remove, and many more inconsistencies are coming from him. We've had no hot water for well over a year, it was reported to both the landlord and letting agents, it has never been fixed and we've been told they both have no record of us mentioning it, no working light in the bathroom, again told the landlord about this in February and he said it would be fixed, we still have no working light in the bathroom and lots of other little things like this that we haven't pushed on but have made us lose trust in both the landlord and the letting agents. If this would have been done in February when we were told it was going to be we would have had 5 months to gather that amount of money, not a couple of weeks right before the children start a new school cycle and other things need to budgeted for as well. Also as I have said, we have offered to pay him the amount off on a month basis added onto our rent so he has the full figure when we move out to have the damage replaced. Which is what he first stated in February, he said he had no problems with keeping it as it is and fixing it in two years as long as he had the money. So from February until now it has changed from that to give me 4,300 without any questions without a month. So can you understand why I am now questioning his intentions and motives behind this change in attitude.

Michael D Not Higgins

WychWillow wrote: »

He won't allow me access to a list he prepared in February of the damage he wants repairing, he won't allow me to get my own quote.

The main issue is I don't trust my landlord, he lies.

Okay, here's what you do. Demand a list of the works required, if he doesn't provide it, say you'll open a dispute with the PRTB. There's nothing stopping you from getting a quote, but it can only be for reference. You don't get to decide who carries out the rectification work. It could be useful in a dispute in front of the PRTB though.

The landlord doesn't have to agree to a payment schedule. He can't offer the carpenter a payment schedule for his work.

WychWillow

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Okay, here's what you do. Demand a list of the works required, if he doesn't provide it, say you'll open a dispute with the PRTB. There's nothing stopping you from getting a quote, but it can only be for reference. You don't get to decide who carries out the rectification work. It could be useful in a dispute in front of the PRTB though.

The landlord doesn't have to agree to a payment schedule. He can't offer the carpenter a payment schedule for his work.

I have asked for a list of works required multiply times, at least twice a day since Sunday, once to the LL and once to the agents. Neither of them are providing me with this list. All I am getting from my LL is 'give me this money and then I will issue you with another lease'