Clery's O'Connell Street is gone

dpe

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Talk of northside and south side in a city centre is nonsense.

I think an Apple Store would suit o'connell street more than grafton street, as it's the better street potentially. Architecturally nicer and wider. The buildings are fine, it's just a matter of policing better.

It should be nonsense, but amazingly, it isn't. Significant numbers of people from the southside genuinely don't cross the river. Until quite recently I worked for a big retailer with a loyalty programme, and the schism between north and south was right there in the customer records.

Maybe the new LUAS will help, but I doubt it, it seems to be very deep-seated.

Eugene Norman

dpe wrote: »

It should be nonsense, but amazingly, it isn't. Significant numbers of people from the southside genuinely don't cross the river. Until quite recently I worked for a big retailer with a loyalty programme, and the schism between north and south was right there in the customer records.

Maybe the new LUAS will help, but I doubt it, it seems to be very deep-seated.

Wow. Did not know that.

jimmii

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Yeah, so Henry St to south O'Connell street could be a pretty good cachement area.

It really should.

gaiscioch

Faith+1 wrote: »

however Southside people tend to have a lot more!

Not to spend on "extremely expensive phones, tablets and other devices", according to one of our great leaders recently. (true "Southside people" being busy beavering away in their law and accountancy offices, and leaving water protests to all the unemployable "Northside people", of course)

Mobile phones first, food second

gaiscioch

jimmii wrote: »

Funnily enough on average shoppers spend more when they go to Henry St than they do when they go to Grafton St.

Nothing unsurprising if that's true. There's a widespread perception that Grafton Street is the most expensive street in Dublin, and therefore people would be inclined to feel they're getting better value by shopping somewhere like Henry Street/Mary Street, which also has far more choice.

odyssey06

jimmii wrote: »

Funnily enough on average shoppers spend more when they go to Henry St than they do when they go to Grafton St.

That doesn't necessarily mean total spend is higher though, it could mean they visit Henry Street less but when they do go they spend more...

Hollister11

There's people protesting about clery's now. I'm sick of protesting. The shop is closed down because it's loosing money and while its **** all them jobs are lost it simply wasn't a viable business anymore.

jimmii

gaiscioch wrote: »

Nothing unsurprising if that's true. There's a widespread perception that Grafton Street is the most expensive street in Dublin, and therefore people would be inclined to feel they're getting better value by shopping somewhere like Henry Street/Mary Street, which also has far more choice.

The average across Dublin is €70 but on Grafton its a surprisingly low €57. The value is definitely one reason for Henry St being so popular alright you can also just pop into Arnotts if you want to treat yourself to something a little fancier! Just a shame the area isn't perhaps as tidy as the other side of town. I go to the BID meetings for the area and it gets brought up pretty much every time Op. Spire made a bit of a difference but a load more needs to be done.

jimmii

odyssey06 wrote: »

That doesn't necessarily mean total spend is higher though, it could mean they visit Henry Street less but when they do go they spend more...

There was another report out not so long ago that the actual amount of actual shoppers on each is around the same. Typically Grafton has about 25%ish more people going through per hour but quite a high percentage are just using it as a route to work which isn't the case anywhere near as much on Henry St.

Kalman

bert911 wrote: »

Rumour Apple opening store next year

Far too big for that.

delahuntv

dpe wrote: »

Its not big enough. If you divide it up its still not going to have enough in it to divert people from Henry St/Grafton St. Especially if they're going to take space a way for a hotel.

No matter which way you cut it, O'Connell Street is "off-prime" from a retailer perspective; I was wandering down there yesterday and once you take away the food and convenience stores you're down to three shoe shops, a run-down Penneys (although maybe their purchase of the Independent building will change that), two pharmacies, Easons and Ann Summers. Without forced rezoning, which Dublin City Council can't do, either financially or probably legally, restructuring the Clerys building isn't going to give enough extra retail to make the street a shopping destination. Its probably better off as a hotel to be honest.

Well thats the plans that are being drawn up. Also the Carlton site is due have work started soon.

The Clerys buildings go back to Marlborough street, so its a huge space. The ground floor, excluding the warehosue buildings between earl place and marlborough street are in excess of 70,000 sq ft. - you'd easily fit 20 decent size stores and mall space in that.

The new owners were announced as preferred bidders back in April, so expect a planning application for the first part to be entered very quickly as from what I've heard, the plans are all but complete.

BTW - the unions knew the store would close, but not in the manner it has done. They expected it to trade though the planning process, a planned closing sale and then a fairly quick re-build and re-opening as a premium mall.

As for getting customers there. A flagship Apple store, a flagship Hollister store, and a few others, and they will come.... even if it means travelling over the border of O'Connell bridge! :P

Guy:Incognito

jimmii wrote: »

Funnily enough on average shoppers spend more when they go to Henry St than they do when they go to Grafton St.

That just means many Southsiders are shopping there. Everyone knows you spend more money when you go on holiday

jimmii

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That just means many Southsiders are shopping there. Everyone knows you spend more money when you go on holiday

People go crazy when they go to the Naughty Northside!

dpe

delahuntv wrote: »

Well thats the plans that are being drawn up. Also the Carlton site is due have work started soon.

The Clerys buildings go back to Marlborough street, so its a huge space. The ground floor, excluding the warehosue buildings between earl place and marlborough street are in excess of 70,000 sq ft. - you'd easily fit 20 decent size stores and mall space in that.

The new owners were announced as preferred bidders back in April, so expect a planning application for the first part to be entered very quickly as from what I've heard, the plans are all but complete.

BTW - the unions knew the store would close, but not in the manner it has done. They expected it to trade though the planning process, a planned closing sale and then a fairly quick re-build and re-opening as a premium mall.

As for getting customers there. A flagship Apple store, a flagship Hollister store, and a few others, and they will come.... even if it means travelling over the border of O'Connell bridge! :P

I honestly hope it happens. I work around here and it would be nice to have some decent shops. But I don't think it will; because North Earl Street is a sh*thole and Sackville Place and Marlborough Street are worse! Dublin Council would really need to get a grip on the whole area if they want to make it the kind of place where premium brands want to be located, and I've seen very little interest from the council in helping and attracting retail in the past (quite the reverse, look at what they allow to happen to Henry St every Christmas; rows of fake crap and tatty stalls). The council seem more interested in making the area attractive for heroin addicts rather than shoppers.

Ben D Bus

delahuntv wrote: »

The Clerys buildings go back to Marlborough street, so its a huge space. The ground floor, excluding the warehosue buildings between earl place and marlborough street are in excess of 70,000 sq ft. - you'd easily fit 20 decent size stores and mall space in that.

The new owners were announced as preferred bidders back in April, so expect a planning application for the first part to be entered very quickly as from what I've heard, the plans are all but complete.

I'm actually quite excited by this idea. Marlborough St from the Pro Cathedral/Dept of Education to the Rosie Hackett Bridge has so much potential. Between the aforementioned buildings, the Abbey Theatre (redevelopment also planned), the Luas, The Irish Life Complex, there is so much could happen. If the Clerys building was to open onto the street facing the Irish Life block (all empty retail outlets at street level), this area could be completely rejuvenated, day & night.

More than anywhere though, this would require a concerted effort from DCC & the Gardai to clear the place of Dublin's junkie blight.

waxon-waxoff

Is there really demand for more retail in this area? Debenhams and M&S on Henry st never seemed that busy to me, given the size of their stores. An Apple store or hotel wont keep the tracksuit army away either, and thats whats dragging O'Connell st down.

There is only one store that would 100% work here....Aldi/ Lidl:(

Long Gone

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

There is only one store that would 100% work here....Aldi/ Lidl:(

Aldi or Lidl are a bit too upmarket for the area after what DCC have allowed it to become..... It's so seedy now that a girly bar / strip joint complex would fit right in. Something like Orchard Towers on Orchard Road in Singapore - Colloquially known as "the four floors of wh**es". :rolleyes:

It would be a "nice" counterbalance to Temple Bar on the other side of the river.

dmcg90

Kalman wrote: »

Far too big for that.

Having been in Covent Garden... depending on price it's totally doable. Plenty of space for repairs, genius bar, product areas, training areas...

It'd completely do iConnect and CompuB out of business but we're long overdue a store. I could very much see Apple taking a space even if it's not totally for them.

SpaceTime

Kalman wrote: »

Far too big for that.

Apple are more likely to open a store somewhere like Stephen's Green or Dame Street where they might get a mid sized building they can make an impact with.

They could also do quite a low key approach and just open in Dundrum.

I'd guess when they do open they'll probably have also have up to 2 smaller stores in suburban Dublin and probably one in Cork.

Apple Stores are pretty much in most major shopping centres in North America now and it's heading that way in Britain too.

There's obviously some retail exclusivity agreement in Ireland. Something similar kept them out of Scotland until very recently too.

Clerys is really only suited to being a department store.

One possibility might be if the developer buys up adjoining buildings that could be connected together or insignificant ones that could be demolished it could form the centrepiece of a major retail development on that side of O'Connell St.

I've a feeling it'll be shuttered for a while though until plans emerge.

You might get a big department store in to take it over if the price were right though. There are several UK and continental brands that spring to mind.

Clerys seems to have just had its marketing mix wrong and was chasing a demographic that faded away.

Ben D Bus

Instead of Apple, how about MediaMarkt, Saturn, fnac? PowerCity??? Apart from a fairly poor PC World in Jervis I can't think of any decent tech store in town.

BoatMad

InTheTrees wrote: »

If labour laws allow employers to do that kind of thing then that kind of thing is going to happen isnt it? These people are amoral.

You can't force a company with huge losses and no money to pay people, ?

odyssey06

BoatMad wrote: »

You can't force a company with huge losses and no money to pay people, ?

You can if they are sitting on assets worth millions. Employees should come first in line in as creditors in liquidations.

BoatMad

odyssey06 wrote: »

You can if they are sitting on assets worth millions. Employees should come first in line in as creditors in liquidations.

Its quite acceptable for operating companies to exist. dont you accept that . All over this state property ownership and asset ownership are often seperated , its extremely common in the developed world

Employees are entitled to statutory redundancy and pay in view of notice, I understand that commitment stands. Are you saying that ex-gratia staff payments should come before say, small suppliers , who supplied items on credit , I seriously think NOT

BoatMad

Clerys seems to have just had its marketing mix wrong and was chasing a demographic that faded away.

no its simply in the wrong place.

power pants

turn the building into appartments. enough shops in Dublin as it is

BoatMad

power pants wrote: »

turn the building into appartments. enough shops in Dublin as it is

or more likely centre city offices for which there is a huge huge demand at the moment

markpb

BoatMad wrote: »

or more likely centre city offices for which there is a huge huge demand at the moment

The new H&M on Dame st/Church lane is a good model to follow - retail at ground level and apartments at the top level(s). I'm not sure O'Connell St is the best place for offices, at least not at street level.

BoatMad

markpb wrote: »

The new H&M on Dame st/Church lane is a good model to follow - retail at ground level and apartments at the top level(s). I'm not sure O'Connell St is the best place for offices, at least not at street level.

whats wrong with street level offices

markpb

BoatMad wrote: »

whats wrong with street level offices

Nothing except that O'Connell st is zoned for retail and putting offices there would be counter to that.

Also, you'd end up with a dead street after 5:30 which would negatively affect the other retail/restaurant/entertainment buildings on the same street.

MartyMcFly84

Its a good idea.

Having more people in the area working can only have a positive knock on effect on the surrounding area. They will need places to have lunches, dinners, after work drink etc . Due to the extra foot fall and more people with money in their pockets the local retail outlets would benefit, and it would attract higher end retailers also.