Why do we still need Pride?

Annasopra

There seems to be this idea that all lgbt people suddenly became fully equal on May 23rd and that the idea of lgbt pride is now an irrelevance.

I could not disagree more. Yes the marriage equality referendum passed and the gender recocgnition act and amending section 37 of the Emploment Act are about to happen.

These are welcome legal changes. They do not and should not mean..

1. Homophobia/Biphobia and Transphobia just stopped overnight and no longer exist
2. That important historical elements of lgbt culture should simply desist.
3. That other important issues relevant to the lgbt community cannot and should not be publicly shown.
4. That we should not show solidarity with the millions of lgbt people who suffer daily around the world.
5. That we should not choose to celebrate who we are.

For me the pride movement is something that cannot and should not simply be ended suddenly.

Ten of Swords

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

1. Homophobia/Biphobia and Transphobia just stopped overnight and no longer exist

By far the most baffling viewpoint but I have certainly come across variations of this way of thinking since the referendum passed. I think some people are just weary of the campaign and keen to move past it, it was a pretty bitter fight on both sides.

I love pride and last year it was great during the day but town was just a mess that evening, kinda took the shine off it for me. I hope this one is better.

L1011

Until such time as the religious get-outs in the Employment Equality Act are fixed, and the legislation for marriage (and the gender recognition bill passes, on the T side of LGBT) there is still obvious inequality to fight for. That's well before homophobia is dealt with.

Fleawuss

Pride is needed to give heart to those still finding their way. It's needed to keep solidarity with all those whose sexuality or gender identity is threatened or excluded. It's needed for the fun and energy released into the country. We're part of our society more than we ever were but we're still us. Maybe we just like to party!

Aard

Apparently Pride in London is the biggest event the city sees every year. So if nothing else, Pride is good for the economy!

Annasopra

And the trans community had its own pride weekend festival in Dublin this weekend. An absolute privilege to attend.

jobbridge4life

The most important use of Pride in the immediate future would be to address the biggest issue we know face as a community and one that frankly our community leaders have not addressed as they should and that is HIV. Even today we see alarming statistics about the growth in the disease, a disease we could have eliminated entirely by now. Instead we have young gay men being diagnosed. Its utterly shameful.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-hiv-infections-at-highest-in-five-years-682005.html#.VX6Xr0-feWg.twitter

Wake up gays.

Ash.J.Williams

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There seems to be this idea that all lgbt people suddenly became fully equal on May 23rd and that the idea of lgbt pride is now an irrelevance.

I could not disagree more. Yes the marriage equality referendum passed and the gender recocgnition act and amending section 37 of the Emploment Act are about to happen.

These are welcome legal changes. They do not and should not mean..

1. Homophobia/Biphobia and Transphobia just stopped overnight and no longer exist
2. That important historical elements of lgbt culture should simply desist.
3. That other important issues relevant to the lgbt community cannot and should not be publicly shown.
4. That we should not show solidarity with the millions of lgbt people who suffer daily around the world.
5. That we should not choose to celebrate who we are.

For me the pride movement is something that cannot and should not simply be ended suddenly.

I think about two people said that

Annasopra

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I think about two people said that

No. I've seen it quite a lot more than that.

Zynks

I thought I'll make my comment as an outsider and as a parent. First, I agree with Joey's Enda-esque five point (plan?), but I think Fleawuss got it spot on concerning helping people finding their way.

While prejudice is founded on ignorance, Pride helps build a sense of familiarity. It has a big social role, and it is great fun. I hope it continues and grows.

Fleawuss wrote: »

Pride is needed to give heart to those still finding their way. It's needed to keep solidarity with all those whose sexuality or gender identity is threatened or excluded. It's needed for the fun and energy released into the country. We're part of our society more than we ever were but we're still us. Maybe we just like to party!

irish_dave_83

I agree it should be kept. Even if all the legal inequalities are sorted out in the future, I think it is a good beacon to have for kids and adults finding their way. Particularly for kids coming to terms with it, their world is a lot smaller and the publicity of Pride will hopefully reach them, letting them know that they are not alone.

Lets be honest, most kids are raised under the assumption that they will be straight, and their friends are straight etc., (Princess meets prince etc). As a straight man I can only imagine how daunting it can be. I also went to an all boys secondary school, and you could see the bullying going on with one of my friends who had not yet come out at the time. We stood up for him and all, but it still affected him. This is where Pride(and other things) can help. Even if you have supportive friends at that age, they do not know enough to properly make you feel at ease, and they may still feel like the "weak" one in the group. That's my experience anyway.

This may change in the future, but it will be the last thing to change in my opinion.

Ash.J.Williams

also it at the end of the day Pride is another festival in the city and is another economy booster

hotmail.com

I'm almost afraid to guess how many people will be out for the parade and all the after parties this year. Town will be absolutely crazy and I expect lots more pubs to display the rainbow flag!

I have to say that the lineup at the Pride Village isn't the best (no disrespect to those performing). Could they not have got a bigger act given the year that's in it - even a former X Factor contestant, an 80s star etc. All the Pride events are pretty poor and just basically club nights out. I really don't think the pubs will be able to cope with the numbers this year.

Aard

It would be good if the city closed off some streets this year.... Capel St in particular.

hotmail.com

Aard wrote: »

It would be good if the city closed off some streets this year.... Capel St in particular.

I still think we're a few years from that. There's no imagination from the Pride committee, the council and the Gardai.

Aard

I don't know about the Pride committee, but given the level of activity on the 23rd of May on Capel St I'm sure the Gardaí would prefer to simply close the road off than dedicating so many resources to making sure nobody got hit by traffic.

Annasopra

hotmail.com wrote: »

I still think we're a few years from that. There's no imagination from the Pride committee, the council and the Gardai.

Imagination in what sense?

Shanerygan

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There seems to be this idea that all lgbt people suddenly became fully equal on May 23rd and that the idea of lgbt pride is now an irrelevance.

I could not disagree more. Yes the marriage equality referendum passed and the gender recocgnition act and amending section 37 of the Emploment Act are about to happen.

These are welcome legal changes. They do not and should not mean..

1. Homophobia/Biphobia and Transphobia just stopped overnight and no longer exist
2. That important historical elements of lgbt culture should simply desist.
3. That other important issues relevant to the lgbt community cannot and should not be publicly shown.
4. That we should not show solidarity with the millions of lgbt people who suffer daily around the world.
5. That we should not choose to celebrate who we are.

For me the pride movement is something that cannot and should not simply be ended suddenly.

I think we still need pride today because of the mentality of schoolboys towards gay children is still a problem, amongst other things. Walking down the hallways, you still hear people calling each other "gay" as an insult. Its really hurtful and the schools never do anything about it. In other words, the mindset of schoolboys (and possibly schoolgirls) today is that its strange or wrong to be gay. Or at least, they presume that all their friends are straight.

Source: Is gay schoolboy

Annasopra

Shanerygan wrote: »

I think we still need pride today because of the mentality of schoolboys towards gay children is still a problem, amongst other things. Walking down the hallways, you still hear people calling each other "gay" as an insult. Its really hurtful and the schools never do anything about it. In other words, the mindset of schoolboys (and possibly schoolgirls) today is that its strange or wrong to be gay. Or at least, they presume that all their friends are straight.

Source: Is gay schoolboy

Is it?

The impression I have is that because of the massively work of belong to over the last 10 years that this has changed a lot.

jobbridge4life

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Is it?

The impression I have is that because of the massively work of belong to over the last 10 years that this has changed a lot.

There has been no 'belong to' work in my former school nor in any of the schools that surround my home area. Liberal bubble?

J_E

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Is it?

The impression I have is that because of the massively work of belong to over the last 10 years that this has changed a lot.

That's awfully naive. Majority of schools around the country have had little or no presence of any sort. Kids are left to learn about LGBT folk through either media or stories from friends. There's little you can do to convince many when they take those preconceptions to secondary school.These supports are nearly always biased towards Dublin schools too.

hotmail.com

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Imagination in what sense?

The festival doesn't seem to have changed or moved on in the last 6 or 7 years. The same parade and the same events. The Merrion Square Village isn't popular. The numbers attending each year keep increasing and they haven't adequately responded to the growing interest.

Closed off streets, large street parties with a big concert with decent acts. Make it ticketed if needs be. I don't understand why they can't do this. The city would make a complete fortune.

Annasopra

hotmail.com wrote: »

The festival doesn't seem to have changed or moved on in the last 6 or 7 years. The same parade and the same events. The Merrion Square Village isn't popular. The numbers attending each year keep increasing and they haven't adequately responded to the growing interest.

Closed off streets, large street parties with a big concert with decent acts. Make it ticketed if needs be. I don't understand why they can't do this. The city would make a complete fortune.

Em Merrion Square only came in 2 years ago.
Theres a huge variety of events.

Have you considered maybe sending ideas you have to pride or attending their meetings in order to put ideas forward

hotmail.com

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Em Merrion Square only came in 2 years ago.
Theres a huge variety of events.

Have you considered maybe sending ideas you have to pride or attending their meetings in order to put ideas forward

So unless I send ideas I'm not allowed to complain!?

Shanerygan

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Is it?

The impression I have is that because of the massively work of belong to over the last 10 years that this has changed a lot.

Definitely not in my school, nor any of my friends schools. We learned about homophobic bullying and how hurtful it is for about two minutes, tops before the teacher moved on to the next subject.

Schoolchildren just presume everyone in the school is straight, at least in my experience unfortunately.

Annasopra

hotmail.com wrote: »

So unless I send ideas I'm not allowed to complain!?

I didn't say that. I suggested that if you have ideas you could put them forward.

hotmail.com

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I didn't say that. I suggested that if you have ideas you could put them forward.

I took it as a smart remark really.

My opinion is that the Pride festival lacks imagination and hasn't adequately addressed the growing interest.

Shanerygan

Ive never been to a pride festival so I cant contribute. This year will be my first.

Annasopra

hotmail.com wrote: »

I took it as a smart remark really.

My opinion is that the Pride festival lacks imagination and hasn't adequately addressed the growing interest.

I'm really not trying to be condescending or smart at all but really if you have ideas or opinions on the matter and think things could be improved why can you not do something with these ideas?

Ash885

This will be my first Pride too! Looking forward to it, and hopefully will put away any of those cliché opinions I had in previous years to it.

Nokia6230i

jobbridge4life wrote: »

The most important use of Pride in the immediate future would be to address the biggest issue we know face as a community and one that frankly our community leaders have not addressed as they should and that is HIV. Even today we see alarming statistics about the growth in the disease, a disease we could have eliminated entirely by now. Instead we have young gay men being diagnosed. Its utterly shameful.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-hiv-infections-at-highest-in-five-years-682005.html#.VX6Xr0-feWg.twitter

Wake up gays.

Belated reply to this post but Gay Health Network & Dublin Pride, collaboratively, are handing out FREE condoms in the gay bars around town this Saturday the 20th of June as Pride Week in Dublin begins.

http://www.gayhealthnetwork.ie/

Pride both want & need volunteers. Interested? As their FB Page says in a Status Update posted on Wednesday morning at 9am, email Scott at community@dublinpride.ie for further info & to volunteer your services please.

Thanks.

It may not totally assuage the point you're making "Jobbridge4life" but it is a start and is addressing the issue to a point.

Nokia6230i

hotmail.com wrote: »

I still think we're a few years from that. There's no imagination from the Pride committee, the council and the Gardai.

:mad:

Sorry to say it but I'm ******* hopping reading ***** like this.

Keyboard Warrior/s.

Pride is a voluntary gig; everyone involved to my knowledge has other things to do like work, parenting, look for work etc. and put serious effort into the Festival & the Pride Parade while others snipe off them from the sidelines.

People with titles like Chief Steward, Deputy Chief Steward, Section Chiefs (I'm going to say 7 but no doubt my OL Maths will let me down!), Contingent Stewards & their Deputies (pushing on for 80 x 2 based on numbers of floats for this year!) and individual volunteers in the different floats both vehicular & walking groups give up of their time voluntarily with no recompense not even travel expenses for those who've to travel from outside of Dublin or those who've to take off work early to attend/deliver training, meet with DCC, AGS etc.

Training HAS to be delivered for H&S reasons, insurance requirements etc. to ensure the event goes off without incident for all concerned & to ensure everyone on all sides gets to enjoy the day.

I know anecdotally that Pride Cttee., Gardai & DCC do meet but unless ye, the keyboard f*****g warriors get up off your hairy yellow a***s & get involved, then what will change?

Get involved. Please. Do.

The Pride Cttee. welcomes new faces annually be they stewards at any level, volunteers at the different events during Pride Week etc. (see my previous post re condoms for example as a way to do your bit!).

But also the Pride Cttee. welcomes & seeks feedback; I know for a fact that they did this in 2014 via Survey Monkey for example but there are other ways of contacting them such as their (quite active) social media accounts publicly or via PMs/DMs & various emails.

One thing I'll be recommending to whomever is doing the superb job on their social media accounts is they extend that role to registering as an official account on here to answer your queries, perhaps even doing an open-ended AMA/Ask me Anything too.?

You'll change nothing outside of the tent p*****g in; inside the tent is an awful lot easier folks.

There's many folks out there, on here perhaps too even that have a skillset or experience or qualifications that may well improve, benefit and change the Festival as an entity, the Pride Cttee., the Parade etc. but as with any volunteer gig, tis YOU who must want to get involved, who doesn't mind giving up of (some) of your time etc.

Apologies for my rant & use of multiple asterisks but as someone who volunteers elsewhere in life (something I highly recommend as someone who is constantly looking for work! It looks "T'rific" on your CV & is a great networking tool in life no matter your vintage! You'll get great training & social skills in most volunteer roles) it's something that irks me.

Get involved folks (even if it's "only" giving polite, constructive feedback & suggestions). Please. You can be the change.

Aard

^His post was in reference to street closures.... A bit of an overreaction tbh

Nokia6230i

jobbridge4life wrote: »

There has been no 'belong to' work in my former school nor in any of the schools that surround my home area. Liberal bubble?

Contact BelongTo; budgets & time constraints allowing they'd be delighted to attend I'm sure & offer insights & advice into what it's like being an LGBT Teenager; the Irish Trans Students Alliance & TENI do this too.

There are many LGBT Irish who would I'm sure deliver talks.

The issue however probably isn't them or the time/budget issues I've mentioned.

It may all go back to the ethos/patronage of the educational establishment & by extension, the parents too; school of Catholic ethos may bow (!) to student body pressure ultimately but parents could oppose from Parents Cttee. to BOM to individual 'rents submitting objections or writing a letter excusing little Johnny or big Mary from attending due to their own (religious) leanings etc.

By all means use Town Halls, Hotels etc. but as above paragraph numbers might be reduced due to parental reasons/beliefs.

Another reason why the Pride movement is not only necessary in Ireland but always will be.

Nokia6230i

hotmail.com wrote: »

The festival doesn't seem to have changed or moved on in the last 6 or 7 years. The same parade and the same events. The Merrion Square Village isn't popular. The numbers attending each year keep increasing and they haven't adequately responded to the growing interest.

Closed off streets, large street parties with a big concert with decent acts. Make it ticketed if needs be. I don't understand why they can't do this. The city would make a complete fortune.

A lot of what you say has merit yes but ticketed events? Don't we want to make Pride inclusive & not exclusive?

Just an observation.

The Merrion Sq. Village has to appeal to a wide demographic; it can't be handed over to the type of t**s who want to get rat-a***d or s**t-faced as early as possible.

It has to be accessible to families, be family friendly, be a family fun day out both on the square itself & in the park.

This year there will be drink stands (for want of a better description!) and food on site too (presumably hot-dogs, burgers etc.!?) in the village as well as performers & speeches up on the stage.

However from my understanding the drink stalls (better word maybe?) will not be of an alcoholic persuasion. Licencing laws/issues maybe?

Nokia6230i

hotmail.com wrote: »

So unless I send ideas I'm not allowed to complain!?

Wrong forum as such; are any of the Pride Cttee. observing this for example?

Maybe, maybe not; see my previous rant/post re getting involved even if it's "only" offering feedback.

Criticism, constructive especially is the only way any event will prosper, continue, benefit & improve.

By all means "complain" (I don't view it as such; it's not negativity if you've ideas or suggestions; it turns into positivity then so fair balls fella!) on here yes but forward your concerns on to Pride via the methods I've previously mentioned.

Xenophile

Now not necessary for Pride or Proud now .................Just accept yourself !

Annasopra

Xenophile wrote: »

Now not necessary for Pride or Proud now .................Just accept yourself !

Pride is so much more than a lack of self acceptance

jobbridge4life

Aard wrote: »

^His post was in reference to street closures.... A bit of an overreaction tbh

Indeed if even the mildest criticism is meet with expletive filled rage its not hard to see why some feel alienated.

jobbridge4life

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Contact BelongTo; budgets & time constraints allowing they'd be delighted to attend I'm sure & offer insights & advice into what it's like being an LGBT Teenager; the Irish Trans Students Alliance & TENI do this too.

There are many LGBT Irish who would I'm sure deliver talks.

The issue however probably isn't them or the time/budget issues I've mentioned.

I am not quite sure why you are being so defensive. I merely repeated a truth to clarify that we have't reached some kind of utopian level of acceptance across the nation.

Annasopra

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I am not quite sure why you are being so defensive. I merely repeated a truth to clarify that we have't reached some kind of utopian level of acceptance across the nation.

To be clear. I never suggested that we have reached a utopian level of acceptance!

jobbridge4life

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

To be clear. I never suggested that we have reached a utopian level of acceptance!

True, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole.

hotmail.com

Nokia6230i wrote:

Sorry to say it but I'm ******* hopping reading ***** like this.

Nokia6230i wrote:

Keyboard Warrior/s.

Nokia6230i wrote:

Pride is a voluntary gig; everyone involved to my knowledge has other things to do like work, parenting, look for work etc. and put serious effort into the Festival & the Pride Parade while others snipe off them from the sidelines.

Nokia6230i wrote:

People with titles like Chief Steward, Deputy Chief Steward, Section Chiefs (I'm going to say 7 but no doubt my OL Maths will let me down!), Contingent Stewards & their Deputies (pushing on for 80 x 2 based on numbers of floats for this year!) and individual volunteers in the different floats both vehicular & walking groups give up of their time voluntarily with no recompense not even travel expenses for those who've to travel from outside of Dublin or those who've to take off work early to attend/deliver training, meet with DCC, AGS etc.

Nokia6230i wrote:

I know anecdotally that Pride Cttee., Gardai & DCC do meet but unless ye, the keyboard f*****g warriors get up off your hairy yellow a***s & get involved, then what will change?

Nokia6230i wrote:

Training HAS to be delivered for H&S reasons, insurance requirements etc. to ensure the event goes off without incident for all concerned & to ensure everyone on all sides gets to enjoy the day.

Nokia6230i wrote:

People with titles like Chief Steward, Deputy Chief Steward, Section Chiefs (I'm going to say 7 but no doubt my OL Maths will let me down!), Contingent Stewards & their Deputies (pushing on for 80 x 2 based on numbers of floats for this year!) and individual volunteers in the different floats both vehicular & walking groups give up of their time voluntarily with no recompense not even travel expenses for those who've to travel from outside of Dublin or those who've to take off work early to attend/deliver training, meet with DCC, AGS etc.

Nokia6230i wrote:

Sorry to say it but I'm ******* hopping reading ***** like this.

Nokia6230i wrote:

Keyboard Warrior/s.

Nokia6230i wrote:

Pride is a voluntary gig; everyone involved to my knowledge has other things to do like work, parenting, look for work etc. and put serious effort into the Festival & the Pride Parade while others snipe off them from the sidelines.

Nokia6230i wrote:

People with titles like Chief Steward, Deputy Chief Steward, Section Chiefs (I'm going to say 7 but no doubt my OL Maths will let me down!), Contingent Stewards & their Deputies (pushing on for 80 x 2 based on numbers of floats for this year!) and individual volunteers in the different floats both vehicular & walking groups give up of their time voluntarily with no recompense not even travel expenses for those who've to travel from outside of Dublin or those who've to take off work early to attend/deliver training, meet with DCC, AGS etc.

Did you think my post was a comment on the great unpaid work by the scores of people that help to organise Pride? It wasn't to be clear.

It's very difficult to organise anything. I'm aware of that. And you'll never please everyone. But Pride is open to criticism just like any other event.

hotmail.com

Good point. But you could run the event in a non profit way and ensure that the fee goes to pay for the acts that playing, the stage and all the other overheads. And a percentage could be given to a appropriate charity.

My basic problem is that the numbers have increased dramatically in the last 5 years and will increase again this year and Pride hasn't adequately addressed the growing interest. The limited gay pubs in town are over packed, dangerous and unable to cope. So busy are they people are actually getting turned off going in. I'm not saying I have the answers. I'm just expressing an observation.

There is room now for a large day long street party with alcohol served for adults with a concert/dj. The pubs will still be packed.

Shanerygan

I heard a kid today say that a bouncy castle was "gay" as an insult to it.

Until that kinda stuff gets out of the minds of people we still need pride.

J_E

I still wonder if a Phoenix Park party would be the right idea.

BunnyRabbit

Mixed thoughts on this.

When I worked in a large semi-state, the union had an LGBT committee, Women's committee, Black & Ethnic Minority committee, Disabled Peoples committee.................

All of these groups were supposed to have input into how the Union worked, but most were talking shops, an excuse for reps to get paid time off to go gallivanting around the country, and half the time instead of looking into real issues they came out with pointless rubbish. Seems it was just turn out quantity of issues to justify their time, so much so that the odd, genuine issues they brought up got lost among the shyte.

People on these committees generally were referred to pejoratively as the "Black English Lesbian Cripples" and were seen as pains in the hole. It had people asking "what about a committee for white, straight Irish able bodied men. They genuinely felt their input & needs were left out.

Some pride parades I've seen, with aggressive people in numbers enough to intimidate most people, shouting stuff like "we're trans, we're trans, we're gonna use your cans", or with people in a town/city after a parade only just on the legal side of having sex in public (which would be equally objectionable if it was straight people) is in my opinion wrong, it does nothing to serve our purpose, it turns people against us.

Peaceful parades, where genuine issues are highlighted in a respectful way, on the other hand I think are a great thing. I think we need to put more effort into educating the majority than alienating them.

Aard

What have unions got to do with anything?

hotmail.com

BunnyRabbit wrote: »

Mixed thoughts on this.

When I worked in a large semi-state, the union had an LGBT committee, Women's committee, Black & Ethnic Minority committee, Disabled Peoples committee.................

All of these groups were supposed to have input into how the Union worked, but most were talking shops, an excuse for reps to get paid time off to go gallivanting around the country, and half the time instead of looking into real issues they came out with pointless rubbish. Seems it was just turn out quantity of issues to justify their time, so much so that the odd, genuine issues they brought up got lost among the shyte.

People on these committees generally were referred to pejoratively as the "Black English Lesbian Cripples" and were seen as pains in the hole. It had people asking "what about a committee for white, straight Irish able bodied men. They genuinely felt their input & needs were left out.

Some pride parades I've seen, with aggressive people in numbers enough to intimidate most people, shouting stuff like "we're trans, we're trans, we're gonna use your cans", or with people in a town/city after a parade only just on the legal side of having sex in public (which would be equally objectionable if it was straight people) is in my opinion wrong, it does nothing to serve our purpose, it turns people against us.

Peaceful parades, where genuine issues are highlighted in a respectful way, on the other hand I think are a great thing. I think we need to put more effort into educating the majority than alienating them.

You've seen people after a parade almost having sex in public?

BunnyRabbit

hotmail.com wrote: »

You've seen people after a parade almost having sex in public?

In Derry

Annasopra

BunnyRabbit wrote: »

In Derry

RIght ok

The vast vast vast majority of pride participants dont have sex in public.