poor FM reception in Dublin, standard FM antenna extension won't connect to Panasonic

blacklamp

Hello any radio heads out there, please help?!?

I have a problem with a mini hifi set I bought about 4 years ago (Panasonic SA-PMX5DB, about €400). I wanted a radio/CD with reasonable sound that I could put up on a kitchen shelf. It's been OK but over the last 18 months or so radio reception (on Lyric FM in particular) has been hit and miss. We're based in Blackrock so general reception shouldn't be an issue?
On some days it's fine then others it sounds 'fuzzy' (bad reception, as if standing beside a waterfall). 98FM and other bigger stations are fine, Lyric FM isn't. It changes as I walk around the kitchen. If I touch the antenna reception is fine but that's not a great option. The antenna supplied with it is a two wire thing (like an old lighting cable) and the end of each wire has a little dimple type thing.

The hifi unit is marked with the DAB/DAB+ logos, but no sign of how to configure/turn it on (I've no idea if you have to do that or if that's a road to go down). I've gone into Power City and got an FM antenna extension but it doesn't fit - the antenna seems to be some kind of custom format, not standard coax (a bit like coax but the central core is very thin and the male end screws onto the female). We have UPC in the house but I can't see how to connect the weird Panasonic antenna connection to the UPC.

Any ideas on what I can do? I'd prefer to keep the radio (the speakers have decent weight and apparent power) but open to any suggestions. The noise from the CD drive is really loud and the iPhone dock got outdated after about 6 months when Apple moved to the Lightning connector.

WHL

Hi. You can download the manual at http://www.panasonic.com/au/consumer/audio/hi-fi/sc-pmx5db.html. That antenna looks like it might be an F plug - same as that used by a satellite receiver? Should be easy to make an antenna if needed but it looks like you have a particular problem with Lyric so the first step would be to follow the instructions in the link and do a scan for DAB stations and see what happens

watty

You may have local interference de-sensing the radio.

blacklamp

thanks guys - I hadn't realised that was a DAB antenna. I just assumed the DAB capability was limited to just a sticker on the front... should have RTFM'd!

I'll try DAB and if that doesn't improve things I'll look into a new DAB antenna, something like the SLx Indoor DAB Digital Radio Aerial - F-Type plug.

watty

A bit of wire often works as well as the over priced indoor aerials.

Wire is 75cm long for VHF and 35 cm long for DAB, poked in centre hole or on end of coax (to inner, outer should have 2 to 4 of same length twisted to braid outer and taped to insulated cover. A VHF aerial or Band III TV aerial will also work for DAB.

Any sort of insulated wire can be used. Bell wire, speaker wire, inner of coax etc. Coat hangers are poor as they are zinc or plastic coated steel and thus poor conductors.

In the attic or at window is best.

DAB is mostly poorer quality than VHF (Distortion/Artefacts due to too low a bit rate, not hiss), slow to change channel and only in about 40% of Ireland. Most areas with DAB only have the RTE stations. Most local stations are not on DAB, even in the few small areas with non-RTE DAB.

blacklamp

thanks watty - I found out how to get the DAB stations, but it is only RTE (it goes through autoscan, then says it's got 11 stations, all RTE). is that the reality for most people in Dublin? if so it sounds like DAB mightn't take off? 98FM is also popular in the house.....

let me know any other observations.

watty

blacklamp wrote: »

tbut it is only RTE (it goes through autoscan, then says it's got 11 stations, all RTE). is that the reality for most people in Dublin? if so it sounds like DAB mightn't take off?

let me know any other observations.

DAB (or ANY Digital Radio) unlike Digital TV, is inherently a failure.

• It's only cost effective for national stations with many channels due to size of coverage, Mux concept and SFN (Single Frequency Network).
• The User Interface of preset channels is only suited to a small number of stations and SFN.
• To get cost down to half per station about half the needed bit rate or less is used in UK and Ireland.
• DAB is obsolete. But DAB+ is only used to double the number of channels in a Mux, never for better quality, it has most of the other problems of DAB.
• FM spectrum is no use for anything else, no so called "digital dividend"
• The only real selling point is more channels. How useful are RTE's Niche channels? Very niche channels are cheaper via Internet or can be users own MP3s.
• About x6 to x20 more power consumption. Portable sets need recharged every few days vs up to 6 months for Analogue radio.
• About x5 price for poorer quality portable models.
• No real time, different models delay signal by different amounts, can't have two radios on at once in house.
• Channel change can be slow. If Ireland ever has more than one Mux, then channels on a different Mux are even slower to select. This is a far bigger issue for Radio than TV.
• Most sets need manual to program and setup. Analogue set with real knobs is intuitive.
• Cultural Ghetto. Almost no DAB set has AM, virtually none have LW or SW.
• Many phones have excellent VHF-FM radio, DAB is too power hungry and too limited a market to be built into phones.

Irish RTE DAB is about 40% genuine coverage, there are a couple of limited area non-RTE DAB Muxes.

Digital Radio is inherently inferior idea to VHF-FM and AM (MW/LW/SW is needed for disasters, pan National etc, various AM switch offs are just "bean counter" driven by idiots that think Internet and Satellite can replace AM, it doesn't).

FM band could easily have been tripled in size if we really need more stations, we don't. A simple €5 retail converter running for 6 months on 2 x AA or AAA would add two extra VHF bands to any existing car radio, hifi, portable or phone.

DAB if adopted instead of VHF-FM would give RTE a massive advantage over all Irish local, regional and community stations and wipe out people listing to BBC Five Live, BBC R4, BBC Radio Ulster etc instead of RTE.

It would be truly bad if DAB did succeed. In the UK they add all Internet, Satellite, DTT radio listening to DAB listening to make usage figures better. They also count all DAB /FM radio sales as increase in DAB usage even though many people use these only for FM, and most listen mostly to FM on them, DAB sales have increased in UK because of lack of choice of Radios without DAB included.
Also it's nearly impossible now to buy any decent portable radio. Only the radio built in to phone seem much good and they don't have AM. So the price of second hand decent 1970s to 1980s portables has gone through the roof.
Few HiFi / Home theatre tuners have other than VHF-FM.

Antenna

watty wrote: »

[*] Cultural Ghetto. Almost no DAB set has AM, virtually none have LW or SW.

At least in part this is probably due to the use of Switch-mode power supplies to power the DAB radios. Having MW/LW bands and Switch Mode power supplies for radios don't mix very well! :

have a read of this:

http://swling.com/blog/2015/05/sangean-blames-am-interference-on-power-supply-and-government-regulation/

watty

If they really met CE / FCC / CSA marks it's not a problem.
I have a Chinese 2.1A 12V SMPSU and it's fine for FT817ND, and doesn't affect LW/MW.
I have cheap chinese DVB-T box with external SMPSU and you can set LW/MW radio on it.

Many companies self certify or later leave out additional filter parts. There is no routine policing of compliance in Europe.

Amazon's official USB charger for kindle makes MW/LW radio in a different room unusable. The Sony charger with my Sony Xperia Z1 smartphone is fine, fortunately charges Kindle perfectly.

My DAB/FM Radio external SMPSU does make LW/MW poor to unusable in same room. It's a small set and takes twice power of the DVB-T setbox!

blacklamp

wow - excellent info here!

I think the future of DAB is very uncertain, based on my (very limited) experience. We're now settling on DAB for Lyric (you've to cycle through various menus to get to it) and FM for 98FM (the Panasonic is setup for one-button FM station select).
I might try unplugging the iPhone charger that's about 3 feet from the Panasonic to see if that makes a difference.... of course FM sounds fine this morning (it may relate to atmospheric conditions, but can't quite see a pattern)

Should have also asked - on that Panasonic unit, if I get an F-type coax Antenna and attach it should it improve the FM signal (or is the FM antenna in the unit and separate from the DAB antenna). I'm not allowed put links or URLs (newbie here) but the link to the manual was posted by WHL earlier.



Thanks all for the input.

watty

try 75cm of fine wire with bare end poked in the centre of F-connector.

Note most (all?) of the indoor aerials for sale are little better than a piece of wire on end of a piece of coax for VHF-FM.

Here Lyric sounds FAR better on VHF-FM than on DAB. Even on 1950s radios.

blacklamp

update so far.

Being averse to anything involving tools, I looked at various online options (ie radio antenna with F-type connector). Not many available. It seems to me that except this Panasonic, the radio world is not getting into the F-type connectors.
That said satellite/TV is, so I went into DID got a 2m male-male F-type lead, one F-type coupler. Gave it a whirl this morning; checked that FM reception was poor first (given up on DAB), then hooked them all up. The only change now is that the antenna wire is now about 9ft long (from its original 3ft) but the reception seemed to improve straightaway (no hissing/waterfall sound).

Time will tell (will it pass the missus test), but I'll post up here in a while to confirm.


Thanks all.

Mickey Mike

RTE Radio signal especially on some of the smaller transmitters is not good, Today FM from the same site is so much better. North Kerry is one example, when RTE Radio started on Cnoc on Oir in 2000 it had a power output of 2kw, now its only 1kw, Today FM is 2kw and its perfect. Why did RTE drop the power output.