UEFA 2016 Qualifier; 17:00; Landsdowne Road: Republic of Ireland vs Scotland (RTE)

RasTa

Muirshin Durkin wrote: »

Why are Ireland so good at Rugby?

We aren't that good however it's a lot easier to become a professional rugby player over football

digzy

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Yeah, our population and selection base is no bigger than minnows such as Scotland, Wales and Croatia for example.

To be fair GAA is the largest sport in the country. Those countries don't have to compete with an indigenous sport like soccer does here.

Amirani

Muirshin Durkin wrote: »

Why are Ireland so good at Rugby? The domestic league has money in it, strong support, good development structure. How many players in our squad play in the airtricity league? I can't talk cause I support a premiership side, but look at every other country , they have strong support in their own leagues. 55 quid minimum for a ticket to the aviva, where does the money go?

Ireland aren't good at Rugby. Not a single World Cup win or even a single World Cup final appearance in a sport that has at most 8/9 very good sides.

How can that be classed as being "good at rugby"? The domestic league in Rugby has no money in it - the Pro 12 isn't the National League. Presumably you've never even heard or the National League if you've assumed that it is.

Comparisons between rugby and football are generally pointless, given just one is a properly global sport. Still, as far as comparisons go, the above is pretty awful.

Axwell

RasTa wrote: »

We aren't that good however it's a lot easier to become a professional rugby player over football

We are 3rd in the world rankings for Rugby...:rolleyes:

Amirani

digzy wrote: »

To be fair GAA is the largest sport in the country. Those countries don't have to compete with an indigenous sport like soccer does here.

Rugby is the biggest sport in Wales, but yeah, the GAA is obviously a big impediment to success in football.

Say Your Number

Suitably depressing song playing over that montage

digzy

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Ireland aren't good at Rugby. awful.

Ah sweet Jesus. We won the last 2 six nations and beat the Aussies and South Africa last autumn.:rolleyes:

Muirshin Durkin

Apologies,maybe was a bad example saying rugby , as I don't watch it, i thought the general jist was we were alright, but I think my point is still valid. Not enough support domestically for us, as another poster said relying on England to develop our players, not enough being done at home.

Amirani

Axwell wrote: »

We are 3rd in the world rankings for Rugby...:rolleyes:

Belgium are 2nd in the world rankings in football. World rankings are a pretty terrible barometer of success. World Cup wins would be a much better measure I'd suggest.

digzy

Say Your Number wrote: »

Suitably depressing song playing over that montage

Biffy clyro are one of the best bands around IMHO !

Amirani

Muirshin Durkin wrote: »

Apologies,maybe was a bad example saying rugby , as I don't watch it, i thought the general jist was we were alright, but I think my point is still valid. Not enough support domestically for us, as another poster said relying on England to develop our players, not enough being done at home.

Yep, I do agree with your general just. Our record of developing football players is abysmal.

Amirani

digzy wrote: »

Ah sweet Jesus. We won the last 2 six nations and beat the Aussies and South Africa last autumn.:rolleyes:

How many World Cups have Ireland won? How many World Cups have Ireland come close to winning?

Winning 2 test matches that aren't too dissimilar to football friendlies in their overall importance doesn't make a team one of the best. Either does winning a 5 match competition.

Regardless, comparisons between rugby and football make no sense. The difference in competition between the 2 is huge.

my friend

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Rugby is the biggest sport in Wales, but yeah, the GAA is obviously a big impediment to success in football.

Blame others rather than address internal failings will have you on a hiding to further failure, carry on.

Ardent

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

I think everyone has unrealistic expectations of the Irish team.

Qualifying should be seen as a miracle - it is a small country with a very limited selection of players to pick from. Look at what happened in 2012 - they were basically the joker team in the tournament.

Agreed. Wonder will get O'Neill get the abuse Trappatoni got?

Roquentin

we dont have the players

my friend

Axwell wrote: »

We get it..you dont like Shay Given...

I get it, you don't like hard truths but would rather comment on my comments

Fr Tod Umptious

FatherTed wrote: »

We've relied on English clubs to develop our younsters but since the beginning of the Premier League and the tons of money it brings, it is now easier for clubs to bring in more skilled and more athletic players from other countries. It's the same reason why England and Scotland have also gone to shyte in the last 20 years. The FAI have turned a blind eye to this while other countries' leagues and youth structures are produced quality. Delaney and co have been sleeping at the wheel.

That's true about the development of Irish players in English clubs.

When was the last time an Irish player was on EPL winning squad, let alone a starter ?
O Shea with Utd ?
Duff with Chelsea ?

In the famous title decider in 1989 five Irish players started the game.
Stan, Whelan, Houghton, Aldridge and O'Leary.

Mr.H

Roquentin wrote: »

we dont have the players

yes we do

Mr_Muffin

Ardent wrote: »

Agreed. Wonder will get O'Neill get the abuse Trappatoni got?

Good question. I am really not sure. I hope not as i like MON and he can only do what he can with the players at his disposal.

Qualifying aside - a draw against a team that bet them already is actually a good result. Pair that with a draw against England and i would say he is doing an OK job overall.

Ardent

my friend wrote: »

I get it, you don't like hard truths but would rather comment on my comments

No no, we get it- O'Neill is a brainless moron and Shay Given is lazy and yadda yadda. And you're another OLE-OLE-er with delusions of grandeur.

Axwell

my friend wrote: »

I get it, you don't like hard truths but would rather comment on my comments

But John O Shea scored the goal..we should all just blame him instead...:rolleyes:

my friend

Ardent wrote: »

No no, we get it- O'Neill is a brainless moron and Shay Given is lazy and yadda yadda. And you're another OLE-OLE-er with delusions of grandeur.

Never sang ole ole in my life but I don't have a superior attitude to those that choose to.

my friend

Axwell wrote: »

But John O Shea scored the goal..we should all just blame him instead...:rolleyes:

OG stuff is silly, takes credit from the opposition player whoms shot is deflected.

Axwell

my friend wrote: »

OG stuff is silly, takes credit from the opposition player whoms shot is deflected.

Not when the original shot was going yards wide..

LuckyLloyd

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

I think everyone has unrealistic expectations of the Irish team.

Qualifying should be seen as a miracle - it is a small country with a very limited selection of players to pick from. Look at what happened in 2012 - they were basically the joker team in the tournament.

No, sorry. In the usual context of ~13 - 16 teams progressing I would agree with you. Ireland have consistently been in the 10 teams or so just short of qualifying. But in this case 23 teams are going (France pre qualified), and to not end up being at least one of the best 27 from this process (i.e. achieve a playoff) is bitterly disappointing and very much an extreme low point for the International side.

fyfe79

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

I think everyone has unrealistic expectations of the Irish team.

Qualifying should be seen as a miracle - it is a small country with a very limited selection of players to pick from. Look at what happened in 2012 - they were basically the joker team in the tournament.

What about Iceland? Top of their group having beaten both top seeds (Holland & Czech). Their population is much smaller than ours (330k). We've now failed to beat the 2nd and 4th seeds. There's a mentality there with Iceland, and with Wales & Scotland, that we are sorely lacking and have lacked ever since beating Holland in 2001. France in 2009 was a breath of fresh air but was seemingly a once-off. We need a manager to instil some sort of belief in our squad.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That's true about the development of Irish players in English clubs.

When was the last time an Irish player was on EPL winning squad, let alone a starter ?
O Shea with Utd ?
Duff with Chelsea ?

In the famous title decider in 1989 five Irish players started the game.
Stan, Whelan, Houghton, Aldridge and O'Leary.

Sky money in the EPL has demolished any development opportunities for Irish players in the EPL

Time has moved on since then and it time for the FAI and Irish fans to do the same

wotzgoingon

We need Jackies army from Italia '90 those were the days. I have fond memories of that world cup.

Magico Gonzalez

Poland and Germany are at a different level to Ireland, their playing pool is enormous and their leagues well supported and professional. Scotland nor Ireland didnt have a hope in what was a very unkind group.

wotzgoingon

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Poland and Germany are at a different level to Ireland, their playing pool is enormous and their leagues well supported and professional. Scotland nor Ireland didnt have a hope in what was a very unkind group.

It is a hard group. But Ireland done very well in the last Poland match. We were all over them throughout the match and like today gave away a soft goal from lax concentration.

tigger123

Was at the match tonight, great to see such a great atmosphere at the Aviva.

IMO it's down to a lack of talent. The only criticism I'd have for MON/Keano would be taking off Wes and putting on Keano.

aramush

Poland are no great shakes, don't let anyone be fooled.

abff

Apologies for introducing a dose of realism, but our current group of players just isn't good enough. That's not to say that O'Neill has done a perfect job of making the most out of what we've got - he hasn't. But he's a hell of a lot better than Trappatoni. Not that that would be too difficult.

digzy

Diego Simeone wrote: »

How many World Cups have Ireland won? How many World Cups have Ireland come close to winning?

.

Fair enough if you use "winning world cups" as a barometer. However, Ireland don't tend to win too many world cups at anything at senior men's level. But rugbys the sport which we've the best chance.

You're way off the mark saying we're no good at rugby given the success of the team.

Roquentin

we are better at rugby than soccer thats for sure

Strong Life in Dublin

Roquentin wrote: »

we are better at rugby than soccer thats for sure

That's because less than 10 countries take rugby serious

Amirani

digzy wrote: »

Fair enough if you use "winning world cups" as a barometer. However, Ireland don't tend to win too many world cups at anything at senior men's level. But rugbys the sport which we've the best chance.

You're way off the mark saying we're no good at rugby given the success of the team.

I wouldn't say "we're no good at rugby", we are pretty good. However, I'd very much argue against any claim that Ireland are one of the best few rugby playing nations in the world - I don't think we could claim to be in the top 6 historically for example. Our best performance in a World Cup, the main competition that all the big teams build around, is the same as Canada:

abff

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

That's because less than 10 countries take rugby serious

That's a contributing factor, but it's not the only reason. The IRFU is a lot better organised and focused than the FAI and will continue to be so until that waste of space John Delaney is finally consigned to history.

Strong Life in Dublin

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Belgium are 2nd in the world rankings in football. World rankings are a pretty terrible barometer of success. World Cup wins would be a much better measure I'd suggest.

You're clueless

digzy

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Ireland aren't good at Rugby. Not a single World Cup win or even a single World Cup final appearance in a sport that has at most 8/9 very good sides.

.

Ahem ...;)

digzy

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I wouldn't say "we're no good at rugby", we are pretty good. However, I'd very much argue against any claim that Ireland are one of the best few rugby playing nations in the world - I don't think we could claim to be in the top 6 historically for example. Our best performance in a World Cup, the main competition that all the big teams build around, is the same as Canada:

You're totally contradicting yourself now. You actually haven't a clue what you're on about and silly maps won't dig you out of it:eek:

Kingp35

Would you stop talking about Rugby, I couldn't give a ****e.

So disappointing, MON has to take some of the blame. Strange starting 11 and strange subs.

Adamcp898

Irish football is in a very sad state at the moment, now in all likelihood we will not be going to an expanded 24 team Euro 2016.

Today was the same story that it has been for the last 6/7 years at least, no midfield creativity or control and what's worse is we don't have the players in the current pool, or in the foreseeable crop coming through, to do anything about it. For years we've relied on the men's senior team's competitiveness to sustain the FAI's income and in turn we've relied on young players winning contracts in the higher echelons of English football in order to develop them into quality senior pros.

But, when this was working out we never used the money generated to develop the knowledge and facilities to be able to produce quality senior players off our own steam. And now, when we've less and less young Irish players making it to the higher levels of English football our senior team is fading and we've no system in place to provide a solution.

This time around we were placed in a group where our two biggest rivals (Poland and Scotland) are on a similar level to us and as such if we can't prove ourselves to be better than them then we don't deserve to qualify in their stead. There can be no talk of bad luck, handballs, or rub of the green; we simply aren't good enough and we've nobody to blame but ourselves. Our major problems are symptomatic of a badly run footballing structure and what's worse is these problems were predicted the best part of a decade ago.

tigger123

Kingp35 wrote: »

Would you stop talking about Rugby, I couldn't give a ****e.

So disappointing, MON has to take some of the blame. Strange starting 11 and strange subs.

Why strange? I was perplexed at Daryl Murphy starting, I thought he did quite well though.

wotzgoingon

To put it perspective to the people who said we done better in rugby than soccer is wrong, according to that graph of the world we only made it to the quarter finals of the rugby world cup, we also done the same in the soccer world cup. we made it to the quarter finals and were beating by the team who won it the same year, also the soccer world cup imo is harder than the rugby.

Roquentin

there is actually a lot more countries playing rugby than is shown in the WC. its just a lot of them are such poor standard. its a bit like hurling.

mzungu

Fact is, if we are not good enough to qualify for an expanded 24 team European championship, we have no business competing at the top level. Back to the drawing board.

Magico Gonzalez

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I wouldn't say "we're no good at rugby", we are pretty good. However, I'd very much argue against any claim that Ireland are one of the best few rugby playing nations in the world - I don't think we could claim to be in the top 6 historically for example. Our best performance in a World Cup, the main competition that all the big teams build around, is the same as Canada:

Right now, today, Ireland are the European / Northern Hemisphere / Six nations champions. There are only six teams in it because the remaining teams aren't good enough. Whether that impresses you or not is completely academic.

Stick to football, you haven't a notion what statistics are telling you, you haven't the feintest idea about context. Leave the rugby to the fans.

GotTheTshirt

Gibraltar just lying down ffs

blueser

GotTheTshirt wrote: »

Gibraltar just lying down ffs

And you expected....what?