UEFA 2016 Qualifier; 17:00; Landsdowne Road: Republic of Ireland vs Scotland (RTE)

Pro. F

keeponhurling wrote: »

What was the deal with the tactics from the Irish goal kicks?
It appears all outfield players crowded into a space on the right hand side of the pitch, just past the half way line . At times there was no player at all in the left half of the pitch.
It looked very strange and I don't think I've ever seen it before at a football match, was surprised the RTE panel didn't comment on it

Surely we should be looking for space, not playing into a congested zone which we manufactured.
Even Brady was drifting over to the right, and we didn't really have a left midfield.

I wasn't at the game yesterday so maybe I'm misunderstanding, but what you are describing sounds like the very common tactic for long kicks. I've seen it countless times from all sorts of teams.

fullstop

Pro. F wrote: »

Brian Kerr
Steve Staunton
Giovanni Trapattoni
Martin O'Neill

So, three overly cautious managers and one clueless one.

Yeah, it's the players who are causing the overly cautious football.

Who do you want instead, so?

Pro. F

fullstop wrote: »

Who do you want instead, so?

A manger who plays sensible and effective football.

fyfe79

Yeah, the hoofball is something I don't get at all. When your keeper or defender has the ball to feet, your team have 100% possession. As soon as it's lumped long, you've reduced your chances of possession by 50%. It's just plain ridiculous in this day and age. We are probably one of the most predictable teams in Europe to play against.

Yes, our squad isn't great, but neither are the squads of a lot of teams that will qualify for France. There's nothing we can do with the quality of our squad in this campaign or even the next couple (any positive changes now to our youth system will only start paying dividends in 10 years), but there should've been something done this campaign to address our negative tactics and crippling fear. The fact that MON has not changed either of these, means he's not the man to bring us forward.

Make no doubt we should be doing better. Yes, it's a tough group but we really should be beating Poland and Scotland at home. Defeats away to both of those teams is also to be expected, but average teams should be beating average teams when they play them at home. Scotland beat us there and Poland will also beat us in Warsaw. They have done (or will do, in Poland's case) exactly what average teams should do. We haven't and that's under-performance, imo.

fullstop

Pro. F wrote: »

A manger who plays sensible and effective football.

So, who? Are you going to give an example?

Nalz

All this talk of Scotland not having a better pool of players to choose from, I believe they marginally have a better squad than us, but its very close. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as I don't fancy either team in the playoffs... especially the way the other groups are shaping up.

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, it's the players who are causing the overly cautious football.

Isn't there a reason why they're overly cautious though? No faith in the group of players we have. I agree that something has to change in terms of being more positive, and a new management team is a start though.

fullstop wrote: »

So, who? Are you going to give an example?

Terry Wogan

Will I Amnt

Sick of watching this team limp out of qualifying groups without ever being able to say that at least they gave it a good shot, draw upon draw is the killer. You won't get through by just beating the bottom 2 teams in a group.

Deise_2012

I can't understand how Shane Long comes on as the last sub we have. The man is our best striker in the squad. Robbie would want to hang up the boots, he's past it with 3 years. I went to the Sweden game in 2013, he scored a tap in but was just throwing shapes for 90mins really, he doesn't have the legs anymore to play up front with hoolahan playing off him. It's a no brainer to start Shane Long ahead of Murphy and Walters....Long got 10mins v Poland and look what he did....

blinding

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I can't understand how Shane Long comes on as the last sub we have. The man is our best striker in the squad. Robbie would want to hang up the boots, he's past it with 3 years. I went to the Sweden game in 2013, he scored a tap in but was just throwing shapes for 90mins really, he doesn't have the legs anymore to play up front with hoolahan playing off him. It's a no brainer to start Shane Long ahead of Murphy and Walters....Long got 10mins v Poland and look what he did....

Long has a bit of pace and Hoolahan would have a chance of putting some ball in for a player with Pace.

pmasterson95

I'm far happier seeing Wilson hoof the ball away than try short passes. Hes not exactly a Ferdinand or Pique with ball at his feet.

Pro. F

fullstop wrote: »

So, who? Are you going to give an example?

I can't think of a good, English speaking manager who is available just now. Klopp and Ancelotti are currently unemployed but, even with the competitive rates we pay by international football standards, they would almost certainly be beyond our reach.

The fact we need an English speaking manager makes the task a lot more complicated for us fans discussing it, because the vast majority of Brittish and Irish managers are second rate at best and knowing which foreign managers speak English is not easy (since we don't have a network of contacts within the game to ask).

Also, when you are looking for a manager, you don't just do it at one moment in time like you are asking here. You need to keep an eye out for months on end, waiting for a suitable one to become available.

So yes, pointing out an alternative manager is a very difficult task. But that doesn't change the fact that it is our overly cautious managers who are the root cause of our overly cautious football. Here's the key thing, even if, for the sake of argument, we say that Kerr, Stan, Trap and MON were all the best that we could get at the time they were hired. That still doesn't change the fact that assuming it's the players who are causing the over cautious football when we know that we have overly cautious managers in charge is misguided.

Pro. F

Trilla wrote: »

Isn't there a reason why they're overly cautious though? No faith in the group of players we have. I agree that something has to change in terms of being more positive, and a new management team is a start though.

This argument only works if you ignore these managers' performances with other teams and their public utterances which reveal their thinking on football.

LuckyLloyd

Why do we need an English speaking manager?

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why do we need an English speaking manager?

Maybe I'm wrong. Seems to me like communication is important enough to warrant decent English being a requirement for the job.

LuckyLloyd

Pro. F wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong. Seems to me like communication is important enough to warrant decent English being a requirement for the job.

I always thought it was an overrated point of focus during Trapp's reign. We clearly played the way he wanted us to from the get go. I'd rather an elite non English speaking manager than the likely English speaking candidates we'd attract tbh.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I always thought it was an overrated point of focus during Trapp's reign. We clearly played the way he wanted us to from the get go. I'd rather an elite non English speaking manager than the likely English speaking candidates we'd attract tbh.

We played poorly under Trap so I wouldn't bother getting into hypotheticals about whether we were playing the way he wanted us to or not.

citytillidie

deadybai wrote: »

Lets be honest. We just have to face that we got a rotten group and we aren't good enough. Scotland have better players than us. The outplayed us in the first game and still managed to get a draw in the second despite never going into 4th gear.

I actually think the Martin O Neil reign has been a complete disaster. We should have lost to Germany and Poland and we should have beat Georgia but we only got over the line with a moment of brilliance from Mcgeady. We only got one point from our main rivals for 3rd place in the group. As bad as watch Trap was to watch, he got the most out of our team. Scotland are miles better than us and so are Wales and Northern Ireland. If James McCarthy is one of our 'young stars' then there will be very dark days ahead for Irish fotball

Northern Ireland got lucky with their group top seeds Greece have imploded losing twice to the Faroe Islands

gosplan

We need someone in the FAI to step up and put in a plan for the national team goes beyond 'sack manager, get new one'.

Irish football really needs to look long term. We would be embarrassed again if we ever got lucky enough to qualify for something.

We need more kids playing football and being coached well at a young age.

Manager can't change a thing. And if he can we'll lose him quickly because anyone that get's something out of this team is clearly a genius.

Idbatterim

I would gladly take McCarthy back! How when up to recently, we have always been there or thereabouts at qualifying, have we not beaten a team ranked higher than us since Holland in 2001? Yet other weaker teams, including northern ireland are capable of the odd big scalp?

Its like they see teams as being higher in the world rankings and decide a draw is the target, its insane...

citytillidie

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Fair enough I don't normally hear it called that normally it is the EPL

I started seeing BPL on American sites and streams

Richard Hillman

Sam Alardyce

LuckyLloyd

Pro. F wrote: »

We played poorly under Trap so I wouldn't bother getting into hypotheticals about whether we were playing the way he wanted us to or not.

:rolleyes:

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Deise_2012

Idbatterim wrote: »

I would gladly take McCarthy back! How when up to recently, we have always been there or thereabouts at qualifying, have we not beaten a team ranked higher than us since Holland in 2001? Yet other weaker teams, including northern ireland are capable of the odd big scalp?

Its like they see teams as being higher in the world rankings and decide a draw is the target, its insane...

Mate... don't even talk about Mccarthy. My grandmother could have managed that side with Roy Keane being in the team. He was one of the best midfielders in the world at the time, he didn't settle for 2nd best and made sure his teammates didn't either. Mccarthy had fu_k all to do with that qualifying campaign.

Laois_Man

Idbatterim wrote: »

I would gladly take McCarthy back! How when up to recently, we have always been there or thereabouts at qualifying, have we not beaten a team ranked higher than us since Holland in 2001? Yet other weaker teams, including northern ireland are capable of the odd big scalp?

Its like they see teams as being higher in the world rankings and decide a draw is the target, its insane...

I think it's a pretty safe bet that MON won't be in the job beyond the end of this year alright and Mick McCarthy is the guy I wanted us to go for in the first place. I can't think of anyone better even allowing for the fact that the team he inherited in 1996 was hugely superior to the muck we have now......and the fact that there are very few examples of it working out wheb going back, and lots of examples of it failing.

Really the identity of the manager isn't our main problem

If I was manager of this group of players, I'd be ultra cautious too

ectoraige

Laois_Man wrote: »

I think it's a pretty safe bet that MON won't be in the job beyond the end of this year alright and Mick McCarthy is the guy I wanted us to go for in the first place.

They could ditch MON but keep Roy - a McCarthy-Keane dream-team! :eek:

Nalz

ectoraige wrote: »

They could ditch MON but keep Roy - a McCarthy-Keane dream-team! :eek:

Can't see that saipaning

oh thats bad..... apologies!

tastyt

The only player we have that wants the ball under pressure in the middle is hoolahan, the other midfielders will take it and give it straight back. That's not managements fault.

McCarthy, Whelan, and Hendrick yesterday don't have the bravery, ability or personality to let us play progressive football through midfield. They'll graft all day long but that's not enough.

What is management's fault is taking off Wes, the one player who has the balls to take the ball and the vision to pick a pass. The only real chance we created was when he carried through the middle and slipped Murphy in. It shows the negativity of o Neill that he thought it was hoolahan out of all the midfielders that should come off. Baffling

DeanAustin

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Mate... don't even talk about Mccarthy. My grandmother could have managed that side with Roy Keane being in the team. He was one of the best midfielders in the world at the time, he didn't settle for 2nd best and made sure his teammates didn't either. Mccarthy had fu_k all to do with that qualifying campaign.

Christ on a bike. So much nonsense for such a short post.

If Keane "never settled for second best and made sure his team mates didn't either" then why, over his decade and a bit long international career, was second best the best we managed in any campaign.

Utter hyperbolic drivel.

Deise_2012

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Mate... don't even talk about Mccarthy. My grandmother could have managed that side with Roy Keane being in the team. He was one of the best midfielders in the world at the time, he didn't settle for 2nd best and made sure his teammates didn't either. Mccarthy had fu_k all to do with that qualifying campaign.

You are right.

He didn't settle for 2nd best.

We came 4th in a group when Keane was in midfield and Kerr managed us.

A good point and well made.

Omackeral

Meglamonia wrote: »

Today was disgraceful.

Can't believe I oaid 70 quid to watch that ****e.

15euro in to any LOI match and the passion is there from the players and fans a like. This was 22 hours before that borefest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0wyub6z8is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD0KhUAp5tk

fullstop

Omackeral wrote: »

15euro in to any LOI match and the passion is there from the players and fans a like. This was 22 hours before that borefest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0wyub6z8is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD0KhUAp5tk

Looked like a great atmosphere at that. But sure you know the reaction it'll get from most on here....

Omackeral

I'm not saying it's on a par with the national team or anything just making the point that many of those lads are literally playing for the jersey i.e. they are on little or no money yet try their absolute hardest and it shows. The fans know this and reciprocate in kind.

Deise_2012

Deleted User wrote: »

You are right.

He didn't settle for 2nd best.

We came 4th in a group when Keane was in midfield and Kerr managed us.

A good point and well made.

What year was that? 2005? He came out of retirement as a 35 half way through the qualifiers and they finished 4th... Great point by you!

Deise_2012

DeanAustin wrote: »

Christ on a bike. So much nonsense for such a short post.

If Keane "never settled for second best and made sure his team mates didn't either" then why, over his decade and a bit long international career, was second best the best we managed in any campaign.

Utter hyperbolic drivel.

2001 was probably the year where a lot of our players were performing in the PL... We had Given, Finnan, Harte, Dunne, Staunton, Holland, Mcateer, Kilbane, Duff, Robbie Keane, Quinn, Kinsella etc. I don't think the quality was there in the previous qualifying campaigns. The 94 world ok..but Keane wasn't in his prime then. If you're telling me that Ireland would have beat Holland without Roy Keane you're having a laugh. Mccarthy is a poor manager and ye're only fooling yerselves if you think otherwise. Finishing 2nd in a group with Holland and Portugal is some achievement, look at the players they had.

gosplan

With Roy Keane we got 3 draws and a win against Holland and Portugal.

When he left we got 2 draws against Spain and Germany.

He made a difference no doubt but can we stop going on with the 'he dragged his teammates kicking and screaming/wouldn't let anyone settle for 2nd best/overcame every obstacle' Roy Keane bullsh1t.

He was a great midfielder but that was a really good Irish team.

The_Kew_Tour

The day John Delaney and Martin O Neill along with management team get removed from Irish football will be a good day.

MON is the most clueless manager in my lifetime, even Stan would try to change things up, even if he was hopless at it. MON just stood waving at Ref, looking at our Goalie and Backs hoof the ball time and again to Walters.

No imagination from set pieces, no actual idea what the hell the team trying to offer. I don't blame the players. Gave it their all, but you could see Walters and McCarthy looking at bench praying for change.

People will make the **** exuse of "we don't have the players" Yes its true if we are trying to compete with Germany and Spain, not Scotland. Watched bit of The North's game in pub after and they created chances, should of scored and pressed well making Romania lose possession.

It looks like we got the wrong O Neill.

Wacker The Attacker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The day John Delaney and Martin O Neill along with management team get removed from Irish football will be a good day.

MON is the most clueless manager in my lifetime, even Stan would try to change things up, even if he was hopless at it. MON just stood waving at Ref, looking at our Goalie and Backs hoof the ball time and again to Walters.

No imagination from set pieces, no actual idea what the hell the team trying to offer. I don't blame the players. Gave it their all, but you could see Walters and McCarthy looking at bench praying for change.

People will make the **** exuse of "we don't have the players" Yes its true if we are trying to compete with Germany and Spain, not Scotland. Watched bit of The North's game in pub after and they created chances, should of scored and pressed well making Romania lose possession.

It looks like we got the wrong O Neill.

People just refuse to recognise what the problem is with the Irish National team.


I don't get it.


It's as clear as day and there for everyone to see but some people simply refuse to either admit or accept the truth.


When Martin O'Neill leaves, the next manager will be criticised in exactly the same way for exactly the same thing as will the manager after that while the "fans" continue to deny the real problem.

Wacker The Attacker

Deise_2012 wrote: »

2001 was probably the year where a lot of our players were performing in the PL... We had Given, Finnan, Harte, Dunne, Staunton, Holland, Mcateer, Kilbane, Duff, Robbie Keane, Quinn, Kinsella etc. I don't think the quality was there in the previous qualifying campaigns. The 94 world ok..but Keane wasn't in his prime then. If you're telling me that Ireland would have beat Holland without Roy Keane you're having a laugh. Mccarthy is a poor manager and ye're only fooling yerselves if you think otherwise. Finishing 2nd in a group with Holland and Portugal is some achievement, look at the players they had.

If you're telling me that Ireland didn't use up an enormous amount of luck while winning that game then you're equally deluded.


Shay Givens rugby tackle on Ruud Van Nistlerooy being the perfect example. That tackle should have put us down to 9 men.

Roquentin

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

People just refuse to recognise what the problem is with the Irish National team.


I don't get it.


It's as clear as day and there for everyone to see but some people simply refuse to either admit or accept the truth.


When Martin O'Neill leaves, the next manager will be criticised in exactly the same for exactly the same thing as will the manager after that while the "fans" continue to deny the real problem.

i agree. you cant make racehorses out of donkeys. we simply dont have the quality. people think we can suddenly start playing tika taka like the spanish. you cant. you need intelligent players capable of ball retention and making the right decision.

daryl murphy yesterday got the ball ran towards the goal and shot from a tight angle. a more intelligent player would have stopped and retained the ball and passed to a player running in.

this is it. martin o neill or whoever cant make players like iniesta or messi. he has to try and do the best with what he has

The_Kew_Tour

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

People just refuse to recognise what the problem is with the Irish National team.


I don't get it.


It's as clear as day and there for everyone to see but some people simply refuse to either admit or accept the truth.


When Martin O'Neill leaves, the next manager will be criticised in exactly the same way for exactly the same thing as will the manager after that while the "fans" continue to deny the real problem.

Which is what? "We don't have the players"?

Wacker The Attacker

Roquentin wrote: »

i agree. you cant make racehorses out of donkeys. we simply dont have the quality. people think we can suddenly start playing tika taka like the spanish. you cant. you need intelligent players capable of ball retention and making the right decision.

daryl murphy yesterday got the ball ran towards the goal and shot from a tight angle. a more intelligent player would have stopped and retained the ball and passed to a player running in.

this is it. martin o neill or whoever cant make players like iniesta or messi. he has to try and do the best with what he has

What is it about certain fans that just refuse to see this?

Wacker The Attacker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Which is what? "We don't have the players"?

Yes.


I'd have thought that much was obvious.

The_Kew_Tour

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Yes.


I'd have thought that much was obvious.

And you be wrong. That's obvious.

Roquentin

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

What is it about certain fans that just refuse to see this?

this sort of emotional blindness is common in all facets of life, not just football.

newcastle fans wanted alan pardew gone and then six months after he went they were probably wishing he had stayed.

politicians promise this and that on the run up to elections and the voting public believe them.

people get emotional and they get angry. but its the same emotion that fills out old trafford or anfield or makes people buy the pacio/mayweather fight, as in people are prepared to pour some of their income into sports institutions that dont care one iota for them. when they pay and dont win, they get angry and demand justice in a sense.

this is life on earth as we know it.

The_Kew_Tour

Nobody is expecting us to win the Euros.

But for 1 million a Year you would hope a manager can at least win 1 competive match in 1 year.

I know us "fans" with our high expectations eh.

Wacker The Attacker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

And you be wrong. That's obvious.

Go through the starting line up and give us your assessment of the starting 11. I need a good laugh hearing you describe the "world class" line up that started the game yesterday




By the way you sound like a disaffected Aston Villa fan. This would explain your description of Martin O'Neill.

The_Kew_Tour

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Go through the starting line up and give us your assessment of the starting 11. I need a good laugh hearing you describe the "world class" line up that started the game yesterday




By the way you sound like a disaffected Aston Villa fan. This would explain your description of Martin O'Neill.

Where did I say "World class"????

What a utter overblown pile of horse **** you just wrote there.

Read my posts at least before sprouting bollocks.

Wacker The Attacker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Where did I say "World class"????

What a utter overblown pile of horse **** you just wrote there.

Read my posts at least before sprouting bollocks.

You didn't.


I'd turn on the sarcasm detector if I were you. Just a word of advice.

The_Kew_Tour

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

You didn't.


I'd turn on the sarcasm detector if I were you. Just a word of advice.

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