UEFA 2016 Qualifier; 17:00; Landsdowne Road: Republic of Ireland vs Scotland (RTE)

Wacker The Attacker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

1\10

Youre the one who got the wrong end of the stick. Don't go blaming me.

Essien

I think we have the players to play better, but only marginally better. I was a big critic of Trap but I won't be criticising the manager this time round, our problems are much bigger than that.

The more money and effort we put into finding the man who can get the best (whatever that may be) out of our national team, the less time we spend figuring out and fixing the real issues.

MON probably won't be around after this campaign and we'll be back here in a couple of years asking the same questions of another manager who failed to qualify with an ever diminishing pool of players to choose from.

The_Kew_Tour

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Youre the one who got the wrong end of the stick. Don't go blaming me.

You know you have no argument so you pretend to be "sarcastic".

Well done on great posting.

brianregan09

I think we got a horrible draw ...But imagine we'd taken englands or any of the other home nations....I don't think we'd have fared any better...We are just not good enough

Switzerland would beat probably beat us home and away
Slovenia would beat us away and we'd sneak a draw at home
Lithuainia we'd probably beat home and draw away
Estonia : As above
San Marino: easy 6 points

Wales group
Belgium: would beat us home and away
Bosnia: We'd probably take a point out of 6
Israel: We drew twice with them before and would probably repeat that
Cyprus: Everyone knows about the nightmares we've suffered there probably 4 points
Andorra: Easy 6 points

Nothern Ireland
Romania: Probably get a draw at home , Beaten away
Greece : Nil-Nils all round
Hungary: 2 draws i reckon
Finland: Probably win at home and draw away
Faroes: This should be 6 points but tell Greece that

Roquentin

brianregan09 wrote: »

I think we got a horrible draw ...But imagine we'd taken englands or any of the other home nations....I don't think we'd have fared any better...We are just not good enough

Switzerland would beat probably beat us home and away
Slovenia would beat us away and we'd sneak a draw at home
Lithuainia we'd probably beat home and draw away
Estonia : As above
San Marino: easy 6 points

Wales group
Belgium: would beat us home and away
Bosnia: We'd probably take a point out of 6
Israel: We drew twice with them before and would probably repeat that
Cyprus: Everyone knows about the nightmares we've suffered there probably 4 points
Andorra: Easy 6 points

Nothern Ireland
Romania: Probably get a draw at home , Beaten away
Greece : Nil-Nils all round
Hungary: 2 draws i reckon
Finland: Probably win at home and draw away
Faroes: This should be 6 points but tell Greece that

if we were in NIs group wed qualify.

tastyt

The only thing that can possibly change things is a massive investment into our game here.

Offer our best young players good contracts to stay here instead of going across the water to rot. Employ qualified coaches in centres of excellence and take professional football serious in this country. Players at 17/18 could be playing in Europe over here instead of doing **** all in England. Then if they are good enough they will still get a big move.

The days are gone when our young players go across the water and break in premier league teams . There is too much competition from around the world. Our national side is only going to get worse until the real problem is solved, and that's the problem of what our players with potential our doing between the ages of 15-19. So many players lost to the game.

All this , of course is pie in the sky because it would require huge investment from the fai, cooperation from money grabbing schoolboy clubs and a long sighted vision for the game.

con___manx1

Scotland have gained 4 points with poxy deflections in this group. Not many people seem to remember Scotland beat in Georgia at home 1 0 with another og. I would nearly put money on it Scotland won't beat Georgia away. Germany only beat them 2 0.

Wacker The Attacker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You know you have no argument so you pretend to be "sarcastic".

Well done on great posting.

You are an aston villa fan aren't you?

Wacker The Attacker

Roquentin wrote: »

if we were in NIs group wed qualify.

Its certainly a less competitive group than ours

The_Kew_Tour

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

You are an aston villa fan aren't you?

Come back to me when you want a proper debate and even yourself you admitted to being sarcastic.

If you have no argument and its clear you don't then why you trying be noob with your posts.

I have given my reasons for O Neill going, now ball is on your court.

Want be sarcastic again then go ahead.

No I'm not a Villa, Celtic, Leicester, Wycombe or Sunderland fan

Wacker The Attacker

tastyt wrote: »

The only thing that can possibly change things is a massive investment into our game here.

Offer our best young players good contracts to stay here instead of going across the water to rot. Employ qualified coaches in centres of excellence and take professional football serious in this country. Players at 17/18 could be playing in Europe over here instead of doing **** all in England. Then if they are good enough they will still get a big move.

The days are gone when our young players go across the water and break in premier league teams . There is too much competition from around the world. Our national side is only going to get worse until the real problem is solved, and that's the problem of what our players with potential our doing between the ages of 15-19. So many players lost to the game.

All this , of course is pie in the sky because it would require huge investment from the fai, cooperation from money grabbing schoolboy clubs and a long sighted vision for the game.

There are problems with this.


The irish domestic league has been left to fester for decades. Certainly since I started following it and I'm nearly 40. If you are to take competing with British clubs seriously you are effectively starting from scratch.


The level of investment required for any of this to happen would be more than the FAI could ever hope to provide. It would run into the tens if not hundreds of millions and would take decades to reverse a century long trend.

cj maxx

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

There are problems with this.


The irish domestic league has been left to fester for decades. Certainly since I started following it and I'm nearly 40. If you are to take competing with British clubs seriously you are effectively starting from scratch.


The level of investment required for any of this to happen would be more than the FAI could ever hope to provide. It would run into the tens if not hundreds of millions and would take decades to reverse a century long trend.

It may have but like it or not scoccer is a minority sport behind gaelic footbal and hurling and realky does not have a following . . There will never be a viable professional league in ireland .

tastyt

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

There are problems with this.


The irish domestic league has been left to fester for decades. Certainly since I started following it and I'm nearly 40. If you are to take competing with British clubs seriously you are effectively starting from scratch.


The level of investment required for any of this to happen would be more than the FAI could ever hope to provide. It would run into the tens if not hundreds of millions and would take decades to reverse a century long trend.

I don't think we can compete with the premier league ever but I think we should be aiming to compete with Scottish, Swedish,Norwegian and Belgian leagues. A lot of these countries keep a high percentage of their youngsters at home in their own academies and then sell them on for a profit which funds the academies for the future.

We will only ever have flash in the pan teams every once in a while without our own professional football.

On another note I read somewhere that we are the only European team to ever play at a world cup without having a player from their own domestic league in the squad. That's an awful reflection really if it's true

Hank Scorpio

Hoof!

tastyt

cjmc wrote: »

It may have but like it or not scoccer is a minority sport behind gaelic footbal and hurling and realky does not have a following . . There will never be a viable professional league in ireland .

Soccer is the no 1 sport in this country

Deise_2012

Deise_2012 wrote: »

What year was that? 2005? He came out of retirement as a 35 half way through the qualifiers and they finished 4th... Great point by you!

I love it when a poster just completely makes up a point, hoping it won't be noticed.

Actually Keane came back before the qualifiers had started. In 2004. He returned to the team that played Romania in a friendly mid way through the year, the qualifiers started a few months later. He was 33 when he returned.

But hey, you got his name right!

cj maxx

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

There are problems with this.


The irish domestic league has been left to fester for decades. Certainly since I started following it and I'm nearly 40. If you are to take competing with British clubs seriously you are effectively starting from scratch.


The level of investment required for any of this to happen would be more than the FAI could ever hope to provide. It would run into the tens if not hundreds of millions and would take decades to reverse a century long trend.

It may have but like it or not scoccer is a minority sport behind gaelic footbal and hurling and realky does not have a following . . There will never be a viable professional league in ireland .

citytillidie

brianregan09 wrote: »

I think we got a horrible draw ...But imagine we'd taken englands or any of the other home nations....I don't think we'd have fared any better...We are just not good enough

Switzerland would beat probably beat us home and away
England could be draws or home draw and away loss
Slovenia would beat us away and we'd sneak a draw at home
Lithuainia we'd probably beat home and draw away
Estonia : As above
San Marino: easy 6 points

Wales group
Belgium: would beat us home and away
Bosnia: We'd probably take a point out of 6
Israel: We drew twice with them before and would probably repeat that
Cyprus: Everyone knows about the nightmares we've suffered there probably 4 points
Wales: Home draw and away loss
Andorra: Easy 6 points


Nothern Ireland
Romania: Probably get a draw at home , Beaten away
Greece : Nil-Nils all round
Hungary: 2 draws i reckon
Finland: Probably win at home and draw away
Faroes: This should be 6 points but tell Greece that
Northern Ireland: You would hope a home win and at least a draw in Belfast

Fixed that for correct groups as Ireland would not directly replace those nations

cj maxx

tastyt wrote: »

Soccer is the no 1 sport in this country

No its not .

Paz-CCFC

If we're talking about FAI funding of the League of Ireland, they don't necessarily have to pump millions into it. They could start by not taking the hundreds of thousands out of it annually that they currently do. Maybe then clubs could better afford to build up structures, youth teams and attract and hold onto better players to be able to challenge more in Europe, bringing in even more money.

It would directly benefit the clubs and the league, increasing quality, sponsorship, support etc., bringing more money into the domestic game which could be re-invested and keep the cycle going. It would have the peripheral benefit, for the national team, of the country being able to train better players, increasing the quality baseline of Irish players and increasing the likelihood of a quality player breaking through and playing with one of the top clubs in Europe, getting regular experience of the group and latter stages of the Champions and Europa Leagues. One or two of these a generation would be a huge improvement on what we have now. They would also be surrounded by a better general pool of players.

League 1/League 2 standard shouldn't be seen as an attractive option for our young players to go. We should be increasing the quality here, so that they want to leave for a top second tier or a top tier team of the bigger European leagues at a minimum.

Liam O

I can't name one person outside of Keane, O'Shea and maybe Coleman who I've thought have ever stepped up for Ireland when we needed it. The fact that some seem to not be giving their all at least makes it ten times worse for me. Our effort and pride in the jersey has always been one of our biggest attributes as a team and this team bar the aforementioned 3, 2 who are probably at the end of their time in the team have lacked that.

The fact that we are not playing our best players is also criminal. Long not playing, McGeady not playing, McClean comes quite close to having the right attitude but he wasn't starting either and isn't as good as the other options in his position. We don't have the quality of players to afford leaving these guys out of our starting 11. We have to at least give ourselves the best chance.

Bit rambling but just my thoughts.

Ferris_Bueller

cjmc wrote: »

No its not .

In terms of numbers who play it is.

Wacker The Attacker

cjmc wrote: »

It may have but like it or not scoccer is a minority sport behind gaelic footbal and hurling and realky does not have a following . . There will never be a viable professional league in ireland .

There will never be a professional sport in Ireland. But then, there never been a professional league of any description. There simply isn't the support.


Hurling is a minority sport in a majority of counties. The fact that 12 out of 32 counties compete at the highest level is testament to this


In fact, it was a minority sport in Dublin until very recently.

Wacker The Attacker

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

If we're talking about FAI funding of the League of Ireland, they don't necessarily have to pump millions into it. They could start by not taking the hundreds of thousands out of it annually that they currently do. Maybe then clubs could better afford to build up structures, youth teams and attract and hold onto better players to be able to challenge more in Europe, bringing in even more money.

It would directly benefit the clubs and the league, increasing quality, sponsorship, support etc., bringing more money into the domestic game which could be re-invested and keep the cycle going. It would have the peripheral benefit, for the national team, of the country being able to train better players, increasing the quality baseline of Irish players and increasing the likelihood of a quality player breaking through and playing with one of the top clubs in Europe, getting regular experience of the group and latter stages of the Champions and Europa Leagues. One or two of these a generation would be a huge improvement on what we have now. They would also be surrounded by a better general pool of players.

League 1/League 2 standard shouldn't be seen as an attractive option for our young players to go. We should be increasing the quality here, so that they want to leave for a top second tier or a top tier team of the bigger European leagues at a minimum.

Irish clubs can never compete at European level. They simply don't have that level of resource




The greatest achievement any irish club will make is making the cl group stages.Will that happen any time soon? Doubtful

Wacker The Attacker

cjmc wrote: »

It may have but like it or not scoccer is a minority sport behind gaelic footbal and hurling and realky does not have a following . . There will never be a viable professional league in ireland .

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/bigcount/allplayers.html


Considering we have 250,000 registered players (plus almost 170000 unregistered) the insinuation that soccer is a minority sport in Ireland is clearly preposterous.




http://www.sportseconomics.org/sports-economics/what-country-loves-football-the-most


This place Ireland in the top 10 per capita.

Roquentin

the most popular sport in terms of whose playing it is soccer. by that i mean everyone. not just the league of ireland. soccer is very is easy to organize hence its popularity. with hurling you need a big pitch and gear. with rugby you need a minimum of ten aside. with soccer you can play four aside on the street. the majority of people are playing soccer.

now which is the most popular irish sport watched by people (irish soccer league, hurling, gaelic football, rugby(leinster/munster))?
its probably gaelic football. and the irish soccer league is not as popular as the hurling or the pro 12 rugby.

Pro. F

Roquentin wrote: »

i agree. you cant make racehorses out of donkeys. we simply dont have the quality. people think we can suddenly start playing tika taka like the spanish. you cant. you need intelligent players capable of ball retention and making the right decision.

daryl murphy yesterday got the ball ran towards the goal and shot from a tight angle. a more intelligent player would have stopped and retained the ball and passed to a player running in.

this is it. martin o neill or whoever cant make players like iniesta or messi. he has to try and do the best with what he has

What an incredibly stupid thing to say. It is mind blowing that this nonsense gets repeated so often.

The_Kew_Tour

I keep hitting my head on wall having to repeat that we dont expect to be anywhere near Germanys, Spains and Argentinas.

its seems asking to be around Wales, Scotland and Norn Irons level is asking too much.

we dont have that quality by all accounts.

what level are our players at then?

Wacker The Attacker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I keep hitting my head on wall having to repeat that we dont expect to be anywhere near Germanys, Spains and Argentinas.

its seems asking to be around Wales, Scotland and Norn Irons level is asking too much.

we dont have that quality by all accounts.

what level are our players at then?

We've been better than all three for almost thirty years. With exception of scotlands qualification of euro 96 and wc 98.

Our run is over.

Paz-CCFC

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Irish clubs can never compete at European level. They simply don't have that level of resource




The greatest achievement any irish club will make is making the cl group stages.Will that happen any time soon? Doubtful

When I'm talking about competing Europe, I'm not thinking about the quarters or semis. I'm think about the qualifying rounds. We definitely have the potential to be serious challengers in the qualifiers of both competitions. And there's some big money to be made even in these early stages. €200k per round in the EL, about half a million in the first couple of rounds in the CL, over €2M if you make it to the playoffs. I think a stage of getting to the play-offs of the EL regularly and the EL group stages/playoffs of the CL semi-regularly is achievable (provided UEFA don't keep closing off the EL as much as they've been doing in recent years).

If you have players getting this kind of regular European experience, it's huge. If we have the four clubs doing reasonably well, getting through a few rounds a year, it gives about 50-60 Irish players game time in Europe every year. If we're able to get into the group stages a few times, then you'd have players annually playing about 12 European matches, against six different teams from around the continent. That's a big lesson, playing in different environments and cultures, something that we really lack when our national team is generally composed of players that play for teams not qualifying for Europe. It sets them up well if they move abroad and warrants moves to bigger clubs/leagues than they currently move to.

We'd be a lot closer to having a club getting close to the CL group stages if we didn't have the type of association that takes out of the league the equivalent of four or five times the entire prize fund.

blinding

Do the Players believe in/enjoy Hoofball.

How many players are playing this way at Club level.
I would say that they are being told not too play this way at club level and then when they come to Play for Ireland Martin O'Neill is asking them to play in a manner that they don't believe/know how to/want to.

I think that by the way our players are performing that they are being asked to play is against what they are being coached at Club level.

Martin O'Neill should know better than to ask Players to do what is very much against their normal game.

How many Clubs are Playing Hoofball these days.

gosplan

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I keep hitting my head on wall having to repeat that we dont expect to be anywhere near Germanys, Spains and Argentinas.

its seems asking to be around Wales, Scotland and Norn Irons level is asking too much.

we dont have that quality by all accounts.

what level are our players at then?

I think a huge problem is that we lack decent players down the spine of our team.

One top class midfielder would make a huge difference IMO.

Adrift

It's unbelievable that we haven't managed to beat average opposition in Dublin since Slovakia in 2007. You would've thought it nigh on impossible to achieve that but we've managed it. Can't hang on to a lead for more than ten minutes it would seem.

There are a handful of players that show up every time just to counter an earlier post. Jon Walters is a prime example. Not the most gifted of players but works like a dog in every game he's featured in. The man is English too, and says it's a "privilage" to represent Ireland. If we had 11 men on the field that believed that we would be beating the likes of Scotland who were absolute rubbish it has to be said.

FatherTed

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Irish clubs can never compete at European level. They simply don't have that level of resource




The greatest achievement any irish club will make is making the cl group stages.Will that happen any time soon? Doubtful

Why not? Denmark and Norway have only slightly higher populations and they regularly have teams in the CL.