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Taxi rank rules

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    #62
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,134 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    The previous taxi regulator brought this out, "you dont have to take the first taxi ", It did and still does untold damage and causig never ending arguments on ranks....

    Kathleen Doyle made a bollocksology of the the taxi business and created rows and arguments at ranks .

    Other than when they had a fine book in hand, Kathleen Doyle never sent her staff down to taxi ranks so they never get to witness the implications of her idea.

    For the record I don't blame people for choosing a good car over a older one BTW.


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    #63
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    If you dont like the look of the driver, then wait until the first car leaves and get the next one.
    functionally, there's no difference between the two, but i can see how it could lead to accusations of racism.
    i can't speak for others, but 99% of my choice is made based on the car. if i'm going to be paying the same money for the trip home regardless of the car, i'd prefer to pay for a newer, better model.

    probably influenced by a colleague who once had a taxi ride to the airport and reckoned it'd have been cheaper for him to buy the car than pay the fare.


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    #64
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    The previous taxi regulator brought this out, "you dont have to take the first taxi ", It did and still does untold damage and causig never ending arguments on ranks.
    It caused many non white drivers to claim passengers were racist as they would pass their car and get into a car driven by a white person 2 or 3 cars behind.
    I personally disagree with the "take any car on the rank", and think that first car is the one you should take ,
    If you dont like the look of the driver, then wait until the first car leaves and get the next one.
    Kathleen Doyle made a bollocksology of the the taxi business and created rows and arguments at ranks .

    If taxi drivers are lawfully plying for hire at the rank there should be no arguments and there should be no problem with any driver taking their vehicle from any position on the rank when they get a fare or a radio booking.

    I take the best car I can find at the rank(nothing to do with the driver) and if the driver refuses I take the number and reg of the taxi and report them to the regulator for refusing a fare at the rank.

    The regulators have taken a lot of the "gangster" element out of the taxi business especially in Dublin at the popular ranks and at the Airport.


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    #65
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,792 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    The previous taxi regulator brought this out, "you dont have to take the first taxi ", It did and still does untold damage and causig never ending arguments on ranks.
    It caused many non white drivers to claim passengers were racist as they would pass their car and get into a car driven by a white person 2 or 3 cars behind.
    I personally disagree with the "take any car on the rank", and think that first car is the one you should take ,
    If you dont like the look of the driver, then wait until the first car leaves and get the next one.
    Kathleen Doyle made a bollocksology of the the taxi business and created rows and arguments at ranks .

    If drivers want to argue over it, let them argue with the regulator not the paying customer. I'll skip wrecks at ranks just as much as I'll report fare refusals. Those trying to "enforce" outdated rank customs seem to think both insisting on first and refusing fares they dislike are a-ok and need to be reminded of the law.


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    #66
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If taxi drivers are lawfully plying for hire at the rank there should be no arguments and there should be no problem with any driver taking their vehicle from any position on the rank when they get a fare or a radio booking.

    Other than , if the first driver is on the rank lets say for an hour and you come along and take the last car on the rank which might have just been there 5 minutes, of course it is going to cause problems.
    As i stated in previous post, it has caused incidents of racism as people walking past drivers who are a different skin colour to "white".
    I fail to understand what you mean by getting a fare or radio booking.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I take the best car I can find at the rank(nothing to do with the driver) and if the driver refuses I take the number and reg of the taxi and report them to the regulator for refusing a fare at the rank..

    He can legally refuse you at the rank.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    The regulators have taken a lot of the "gangster" element out of the taxi business especially in Dublin at the popular ranks and at the Airport.

    What exactly do you mean "gangster element" at popular ranks and at the Airport and have you got evidence of above?


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    #67
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    He can legally refuse you at the rank.

    Not for simply not wanting to use the first car in the line the taxi can't legally refuse you, they can refuse for a few reasons but that's not one of them.


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    #68
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    GM228 wrote: »
    Not for simply not wanting to use the first car in the line the taxi can't legally refuse you, they can refuse for a few reasons but that's not one of them.

    A driver CAN refuse if you are outside the car.


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    #69
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    for any reason? does s/he have to give one?


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    #70
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    A driver CAN refuse if you are outside the car.

    You can't enter a taxi without the drivers permission, but by not allowing someone enter the driver is refusing the passenger, legally a taxi driver can't refuse a passenger for not wanting to use the first taxi. To do so is actually an offence.


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    #71
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    Other than , if the first driver is on the rank lets say for an hour and you come along and take the last car on the rank which might have just been there 5 minutes, of course it is going to cause problems.
    As i stated in previous post, it has caused incidents of racism as people walking past drivers who are a different skin colour to "white".
    I fail to understand what you mean by getting a fare or radio booking.
    It is not Racist or anything else to want to travel in a better class of vehicle than some 10 year old clapped out corolla.

    He can legally refuse you at the rank.
    Yes if the driver fears that a person is drunk or may soil the taxi or may cause a breach of the law they may refuse a reasonable fare BUT If as driver simply refuses to allow a potential passenger into their vehicle they are refusing a fare while plying for hire at a rank and MUST then leave the rank.

    All this has been argued before several times!

    A driver cannot reasonably refuse a fare while they are at a rank and if they do they are at the rank illegally and musr leave the rank.
    What exactly do you mean "gangster element" at popular ranks and at the Airport and have you got evidence of above?
    Anecdotal evidence of some drivers being members of illegal paramilitary organisations and using intimidation and other illegal activities to get the best spots at the best ranks for themselves and their friends.
    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    A driver CAN refuse if you are outside the car.
    If a driver unreasonably refuses a fare at the rank they must leave the rank!


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    #72
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It is not Racist or anything else to want to travel in a better class of vehicle than some 10 year old clapped out corolla.
    Yes if the driver fears that a person is drunk or may soil the taxi or may cause a breach of the law they may refuse a reasonable fare BUT If as driver simply refuses to allow a potential passenger into their vehicle they are refusing a fare while plying for hire at a rank and MUST then leave the rank.

    All this has been argued before several times!

    A driver cannot reasonably refuse a fare while they are at a rank and if they do they are at the rank illegally and musr leave the rank.

    Anecdotal evidence of some drivers being members of illegal paramilitary organisations and using intimidation and other illegal activities to get the best spots at the best ranks for themselves and their friends.

    If a driver unreasonably refuses a fare at the rank they must leave the rank!

    Where does it say in the legislation that upon refusing a fare the cab must leave the rank? So some head banger comes to the rank is penniless and out of his tree, driver refuses to take him and then has to leave the rank??? Seriously? Sounds like bar stool guff to me.


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    #73
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If a driver unreasonably refuses a fare at the rank they must leave the rank!

    That would only be the case if the rule was written into the local Bye-Laws which it isn't as it's already provided for in the main Act.

    It's just an offence but they are not required to leave the rank.


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    #74
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    jca wrote: »
    Where does it say in the legislation that upon refusing a fare the cab must leave the rank? So some head banger comes to the rank is penniless and out of his tree, driver refuses to take him and then has to leave the rank??? Seriously? Sounds like bar stool guff to me.
    On refusing a reasonable fare.......

    A driver does not have to bring anyone outside the taximeter area or pick up drunks or filthy dirty people who might soil their vehicle.
    GM228 wrote: »
    That would only be the case if the rule was written into the local Bye-Laws which it isn't as it's already provided for in the main Act.

    It's just an offence but they are not required to leave the rank.

    A driver at a rank must be plying for hire and if they refuse a reasonable fare they are putting themself off hire and must leave the rank as they are no longer plying for hire!


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    #75
    TanFlash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭TanFlash


    If I was at a taxi rank and a taxi refused my hard earned money I'd say "Oi! Taxi man! No!"
    Like hard Frank from Harry Enfield and Chums


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    #76
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    On refusing a reasonable fare.......

    A driver does not have to bring anyone outside the taximeter area or pick up drunks or filthy dirty people who might soil their vehicle.



    A driver at a rank must be plying for hire and if they refuse a reasonable fare they are putting themself off hire and must leave the rank as they are no longer plying for hire!

    Repeating yourself and highlighting it still doesn't make you right. Where in the regulations does it say that ??


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    #77
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    jca wrote: »
    Repeating yourself and highlighting it still doesn't make you right. Where in the regulations does it say that ??

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/37/section/25/enacted/en/html#sec25
    (6) The driver of a taxi shall not stand with the vehicle or park it at an appointed stand unless the vehicle is available for hire.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/37/section/23/enacted/en/html#sec23
    (2) The driver of a taxi who is plying or engaged for hire or standing for hire at an appointed stand, whether or not the taxi is standing for hire at the head of the stand, shall not refuse to carry a person as a passenger in the taxi, save where—


    (a) to do so would exceed the number of persons permitted to be carried in the taxi under the licence in respect of that vehicle,


    (b) the person’s proposed journey is more than 30 kilometres in distance (or such other distance as stands specified in regulations made by the Authority) from the commencement of the journey,


    (c) there are adverse weather or road conditions or traffic controls affecting the journey or route such as to render the journey unsafe or impractical,


    (d) luggage or other articles in the person’s possession to be carried in the vehicle are in excess of the luggage carrying capacity of, or could cause damage to, the taxi, or


    (e) the passenger or intending passenger—


    (i) appears or acts in an aggressive, intoxicated, drunk or disorderly manner, or the driver has reason to believe, will act as such, or


    (ii) is dishevelled to such a degree that in the driver’s opinion carriage of such person would affect the sanitation or cleanliness of the taxi.


    (3) The driver of a taxi when hired for a journey, shall not complete the journey, unless otherwise requested by the passenger, other than by taking—


    (a) the shortest route, where practicable, or


    (b) with the consent of the passenger, the most convenient route.


    (4) The driver of a taxi who fails to comply, without reasonable cause, with subsection (2) or (3) commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a class C fine.


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    #78
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/37/section/25/enacted/en/html#sec25


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/37/section/23/enacted/en/html#sec23

    Yep I'm familiar with all those regulations. I ask again. Where does it say that the driver must leave the rank?


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    #79
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    foggy_lad, the only time a taxi must leave a rank is when they break a bye-law which isn't the case here.

    The fact that they refuse a passenger does not mean they are not for hire, it simply means they are still available for hire but have committed an offence by refusing a passenger. The penalty for such is a potential fine, not a requirement to leave the rank. Being available for hire and refusing a passenger are totally different issues.

    And even if it were the case do you think that a taxi driver who broke the law by refusing a passenger would then obey the law by leaving the rank - not a hope.


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    #80
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭trellheim


    of course this is all further complicated by nutjob taxi ranks like O'Connell St where getting into the first taxi is actively discouraged by all the drivers !!!!


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    #81
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    trellheim wrote: »
    of course this is all further complicated by nutjob taxi ranks like O'Connell St where getting into the first taxi is actively discouraged by all the drivers !!!!


    Well no thats not quite true.
    First off the Gresham rank in the middle of the road has now gone a smalerl rank operates outside the Gresham Hotel now.

    Drivers would point passengers to the next rank out, that might not be the first car at the top of the rank as the rank was "filled" (for want of a better word) by both sides i.e from cars heading south side and cars heading north side


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    #82
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It is not Racist or anything else to want to travel in a better class of vehicle than some 10 year old clapped out corolla.

    Well many an african driver has said people pass them on the rank even though they are the first car out.
    For your information there are no 10yr old clapped out Corollas working as taxis.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Yes if the driver fears that a person is drunk or may soil the taxi or may cause a breach of the law they may refuse a reasonable fare BUT If as driver simply refuses to allow a potential passenger into their vehicle they are refusing a fare while plying for hire at a rank and MUST then leave the rank.

    Leave the rank ? Really ?


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    A driver cannot reasonably refuse a fare while they are at a rank and if they do they are at the rank illegally and musr leave the rank.

    AS above !!
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Anecdotal evidence of some drivers being members of illegal paramilitary organisations and using intimidation and other illegal activities to get the best spots at the best ranks for themselves and their friends.

    Now this is an astonishing comment, could you offer some evidence/proof of this?
    Also you never provided evidence of your "gangster" comment either. It would be interesting to hear.


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    #83
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    Now this is an astonishing comment, could you offer some evidence/proof of this?
    Also you never provided evidence of your "gangster" comment either. It would be interesting to hear.

    He's possibly referring to NI, where it is/was a common occurrence. Here, taxi drivers involved in criminality tend to be involved in more ordinary crime.


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    #84
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    For your information there are no 10yr old clapped out Corollas working as taxis.
    there are no 10 year old taxis, there are no clapped out cars working as taxis, or do you mean specifically that there are no clapped out 10 year old corollas working as taxis?
    because there definitely are taxis older than 10 years old out there.


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    #85
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    there are no 10 year old taxis, there are no clapped out cars working as taxis, or do you mean specifically that there are no clapped out 10 year old corollas working as taxis?
    because there definitely are taxis older than 10 years old out there.

    Indeed, taxis can be up to 15 years old or if a wheelchair taxi as old as they like once in good condition.


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    #86
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    GM228 wrote: »
    Indeed, taxis can be up to 15 years old or if a wheelchair taxi as old as they like once in good condition.

    The 15 years old is a one time only for owners of plates issued before 2009. Once they change vehicle theyre included in the 10 year rule.


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    #87
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    jca wrote: »
    The 15 years old is a one time only for owners of plates issued before 2009. Once they change vehicle theyre included in the 10 year rule.

    That's correct, the vehicle must be associated with the licence since January 2013 on a licence issued before 2009 to be eligable for the 15 year rule.


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    #88
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Well no thats not quite true.
    First off the Gresham rank in the middle of the road has now gone a smalerl rank operates outside the Gresham Hotel now.

    Drivers would point passengers to the next rank out, that might not be the first car at the top of the rank as the rank was "filled" (for want of a better word) by both sides i.e from cars heading south side and cars heading north side

    I'm sorry you have drivers on here banging on about people not taking the first taxi on the rank and then condoning the above behaviour. Do you want fries with those double standards


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    #89
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    trellheim wrote: »
    I'm sorry you have drivers on here banging on about people not taking the first taxi on the rank and then condoning the above behaviour. Do you want fries with those double standards

    Condoning what behaviour exactly ?


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    #90
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Condoning the fact that some ranks themselves do not enforce the cab-rank system in that the first taxi on the stand is the taxi that a punter should take.


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    #91
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    trellheim wrote: »
    Condoning the fact that some ranks themselves do not enforce the cab-rank system in that the first taxi on the stand is the taxi that a punter should take.

    "do not enforce the cab rank system". really ?
    What i did say was the first car parked on the rank might not be the first car that is to leave the rank, due to the fact that the Gresham rank is fed both ways ,by cars coming from Nth Fredrick St and the other side coming up from O Connell bridge.
    It's not too difficult to understand


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