Leaving Dogs outside all day

LadyFenghuang

Bongalongherb wrote: »

You might be missing the larger point... having a dog in the house doesn't mean the dog is Always in the house. For instance, a collie dog is a working dog and it needs a lot of exercise, 5 hours a day in intervals this dog is let loose in the valley with streams and forest all over the place. It's what you do, and the responsibility to make sure this is the case.

No-one said a house dog is kept 24/7 in the house.

Here's an environment below that is suitable. And many dog owners will make sure they get the exercise they need in a good environment.

Some dogs breeds need a lot of space.

I think the main point is though. If you are thinking of getting one ask the vet and the DSPCA or an expert what the right thing to do is. It's ok to admit to you don't know everything and even to decide it's not the right type of pet for you.

Andy From Sligo

Pretzill wrote: »

I'm not totally against leaving dogs outside once they get the company, warmth, attention and their needs are met. Dogs are social animals and many breeds like to be in on the action.

Walks, human interaction and a warm place to sleep of an evening is the least a pet deserves.

My two dogs are house dogs but they love the outdoors, however, it's not quite the same for them if we don't come along. This weather they'd sit outside all day until it's walk or play time or follow us around the garden looking for fun.

However they wouldn't entertain going out in the lashing rain or staying out on a stormy day and they like their home comforts.

We made the decision if we had dogs they would be part of the home. I know a neighbour who keeps little dogs (toy breeds) outside in all weathers even the minus ones and their constant barking and howling is disturbing. But some breeds don't mind the outdoors as I said once they have somewhere warm and comfortable to retreat to.

our dogs must feel really domesticated, they like to go out for their walkies but if its cold or raining they do their business and then lead the walker back home and then its straight in by the fire or curl up on the settee - they love their home comforts lol :-)

LadyFenghuang

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

our dogs must feel really domesticated, they like to go out for their walkies but if its cold or raining they do their business and then lead the walker back home and then its straight in by the fire or curl up on the settee - they love their home comforts lol :-)

Awh! Our little guy doesn't like rain either!

maggiepip

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

You would never come across a vet not used to being around dogs. Most common animals around. That is nonsense. It would only be rare animals some newer vets are not used to.

But there are vets who are known to have experience with these and you bring them to those after inquiring.

I know someone who has Degu for example one was extremely ill and unfortunately had to be put down. She was told to go to a particular female vet who had experience in handling them.

I can assure you I have encountered Vets who really don't have a clue about dog behaviour. Vets are trained to diagnose and cure illness, but many vets dont know a whole lot about behavioural issues.

LadyFenghuang

Our guy sleeps inside in the kitchen. He spends most time inside. Except when it's sunny and he likes to sunbathe. He will get one walk a day and maybe an hour or two outside. We let him out when he wants to go out ....and then back in again and out again and in again and out again and in again!

LadyFenghuang

maggiepip wrote: »

I can assure you I have encountered Vets who really don't have a clue about dog behaviour. Vets are trained to diagnose and cure illness, but many vets dont know a whole lot about behavioural issues.

I have never encountered one thankfully.

Bongalongherb

My own one here loves the rain for some reason. He seems to enjoy the fresh wet weather, rolling around in puddles I can't understand it myself.

piperh

My personal opinion is there is no point in having dogs and keeping them outside interacting for only an hour or so a day. I do get that some dogs prefer being outdoors but unless you get an older dog you can't know that when you get a new dog so you need to be flexible and open to adapting. Take each dog as an individual and adjust as necessary.

My door is literally open for the dogs from 9am to 9pm during the summer and until dark in the winter. The rain has to be really bad for it to be shut. Even if we are working outside one of the dogs takes herself inside after a couple of minutes, the other loves nothing better than being outside and the wetter colder and windier the better. As i said differing needs need differing approaches.

S.O

A dog in the house right next door to me is always outside in the backyard- I never see any of homeowners bringing it out for a walk: view from one of Windows the dog isn't tied up or anything; one thing is noticeable is whenever I open either the backdoor or the front door the dog always bark's; guess it must a sign that the dog is bored.

borderlinemeath

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

You would never come across a vet not used to being around dogs. Most common animals around. That is nonsense. It would only be rare animals some newer vets are not used to.

But there are vets who are known to have experience with these and you bring them to those after inquiring.

I know someone who has Degu for example one was extremely ill and unfortunately had to be put down. She was told to go to a particular female vet who had experience in handling them.

You're misunderstanding my post, and why you are talking about degus when the topic is dogs is a bit puzzling

To put it metaphorically - if you're ill or need surgery you go to a gp or a surgeon. If you're suffering from a mental illness you go to a psychiatrist, usually referred to by your gp because they are not specifically qualified to diagnose or treat mental illness. Same with a vet and a behaviourist. Dogs do suffer from behavioural problems that vets cannot fix with medication. Behaviour Adjustment Therapy or a training programme specifically designed for your pet by a canine behaviourist.

lulu1

Talking about dogs who have behavioural issues. My friend had a jack russel who was terrible. They would be sitting eating their dinner and maybe someone would a chicken bone or something else into the turf bucket.

Well dare my friend or any of the kids touch that bucket or the dog would have taken the hand of them.

The only one that could touch it was the husband because he never bothered about the dog at any time,

They took the dog everywhere to try and help him but had to get him put down at the end up

Andy From Sligo

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's no way in hell I'd keep a dog if it didn't have piles of space and human interaction, but I wouldn't keep one in the house either, to me that's just cruel. Dogs are companions, not furniture.

you dont need piles of space at your gaff - you take the dogs out for regular excercise called Walkies throughout the day - of course there are those that prefer to open a back door, let their dogs roam estates , poop everywhere and hope they come back (or maybe hope they dont come back) later on in the evening/week - not cruel to let them inside once in a while and especially at night .

sure if I was the authorities I would clamp down real hard on all these dogs outside barking all day and nights and upsetting the piece for one issue. And wouldnt be turning a blind eye to all these ones without proper shelter outside even if they have a bowl of water and food with them - and Id put an end to them being outside in zero temperatures unless they had some kid of dry/free of draughts heated kennel with proper bedding ... yes Im not crazy I said heated!

Andy From Sligo

lulu1 wrote: »

Talking about dogs who have behavioural issues. My friend had a jack russel who was terrible. They would be sitting eating their dinner and maybe someone would a chicken bone or something else into the turf bucket.

Well dare my friend or any of the kids touch that bucket or the dog would have taken the hand of them.

The only one that could touch it was the husband because he never bothered about the dog at any time,

They took the dog everywhere to try and help him but had to get him put down at the end up

bloody hell what do you expect - tossing a bone into a turf bucket - of course a dog would get vicious over that 'protecting its bone' - fancy getting it put down!

buried

S.O wrote: »

A dog in the house right next door to me is always outside in the backyard- I never see any of homeowners bringing it out for a walk: view from one of Windows the dog isn't tied up or anything; one thing is noticeable is whenever I open either the backdoor or the front door the dog always bark's; guess it must a sign that the dog is bored.

That's the height of thick ignorance on the part of those owners and downright cruelty and abuse to a innocent animal. I'll never understand why people like that want to own a dog in the first place. The bowzies in prison get better treated than that

michellie

My dog is a house dog, when I'm working my mam minds her :-) it wouldn't be fair to leave her in the house all day, she loves company and I would be terrified she would be stolen from the garden.

thegreatgonzo

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Better again feed raw or fresh. Vets don't recommend it as they don't profit from it.

To be fair that's not the whole story. Sure vets like making a profit, but they also recommend the brands they sell because they'll know exactly what the client is feeding the dog with and how much of it. They can't be sure that every client who reckons they can feed the dog a healthy balanced diet prepared by themselves is going to actually do it. I'm not for a minute saying the diets themselves are better than raw or fresh, but from the point of view of the vet or the nurse, it's simpler to deal with.

LadyFenghuang

lulu1 wrote: »

Talking about dogs who have behavioural issues. My friend had a jack russel who was terrible. They would be sitting eating their dinner and maybe someone would a chicken bone or something else into the turf bucket.

Well dare my friend or any of the kids touch that bucket or the dog would have taken the hand of them.

The only one that could touch it was the husband because he never bothered about the dog at any time,

They took the dog everywhere to try and help him but had to get him put down at the end up

That was the owners. The dog was not socialized and neglected from lack of care love and interaction. Also if a dog is THAT panicky about food it usually means it is not fed on time. It's clear the husband was seen as 'pack'.

Why put the dog down simply because it growled if people touched his bucket? Or where there other issues?

I am not saying the dog was not dangerous. But I see a lot of problems with the way it was cared for from what you say.

You have MAKE dogs accept their place in the 'pack'. Particularly with kids.

It's a sad situation otherwise.

lulu1

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

bloody hell what do you expect - tossing a bone into a turf bucket - of course a dog would get vicious over that 'protecting its bone' - fancy getting it put down!

No not every dog would our dog wouldn't
Would you think it would be safe to keep this dog where there are kids of 2 and 3 in the house.

As I said in my post they did everything in their power to help the dog even getting an expert to travel from Dublin

LadyFenghuang

borderlinemeath wrote: »

You're misunderstanding my post, and why you are talking about degus when the topic is dogs is a bit puzzling

To put it metaphorically - if you're ill or need surgery you go to a gp or a surgeon. If you're suffering from a mental illness you go to a psychiatrist, usually referred to by your gp because they are not specifically qualified to diagnose or treat mental illness. Same with a vet and a behaviourist. Dogs do suffer from behavioural problems that vets cannot fix with medication. Behaviour Adjustment Therapy or a training programme specifically designed for your pet by a canine behaviourist.

Dogs are very common I have never encountered a vet not used to them. With some animals I would have expected what you say to be true.

In the real world I have never encountered a vet not used to dogs. That's not to say trainers are not better with behavior. But i have never encountered a vet in the real world who was not used to dogs and how they need to be treated at least somewhat in my personal experience.

Perhaps with very particular individual dogs that are difficult maybe. But in general. But then very difficult dogs are not for everyday owners they need very experienced hands.

borderlinemeath

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

To be fair that's not the whole story. Sure vets like making a profit, but they also recommend the brands they sell because they'll know exactly what the client is feeding the dog with and how much of it. They can't be sure that every client who reckons they can feed the dog a healthy balanced diet prepared by themselves is going to actually do it. I'm not for a minute saying the diets themselves are better than raw or fresh, but from the point of view of the vet or the nurse, it's simpler to deal with.

Actually if you go back to veterinarians when they are studying, the majority of the vet studies are sponsored by the likes of Hills. Dog food is a big business and where better to indoctrine the student vets than in college. It's a multi million euro industry and because vets are the "professionals" consumers will trust their judgement when it comes to what to feed their dog.

The majority of dogs that attend vets with skin or intestinal complaints are routinely put on a course of steroids to suppress the symptoms of the dog and they are recommended to go on X or Y food, that the surgery just happens to sell. The symptoms disappear for a while so of course the dog owner is convinced it's the food, but it's the steroids suppressing the symptoms, but not treating the actual problem. The majority of dogs are gluten or wheat intolerant yet pretty much all the foods available in a vets surgery contain wheat or gluten or some type of grain.

The pet business is a marketers dream. For years we have been told to eat fresh foods and avoid processed foods, get enough protein, carbs and vitamins and minerals, yet somehow we've been hoodwinked to think it's perfectly ok to feed nothing but a processed diet to our pets.

borderlinemeath

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

That was the owners. The dog was not socialized and neglected from lack of care love and interaction. Also if a dog is THAT panicky about food it usually means it is not fed on time. It's clear the husband was seen as 'pack'.

Why put the dog down simply because it growled if people touched his bucket? Or where there other issues?

I am not saying the dog was not dangerous. But I see a lot of problems with the way it was cared for from what you say.

You have MAKE dogs accept their place in the 'pack'. Particularly with kids.

It's a sad situation otherwise.

This is the biggest load of rubbish.

The dog was a resource guarder, plain and simple. It doesn't see a "place in a pack". Dominance and pack theory have long been disproven, even by David Mech who put forward the pack theory in the first place.

Dogs will guard things because they fear they will be taken away from them. Be it food, toys, a bed, they will even guard their favourite human. It's a fear, not viewing themselves as higher up the "pack"

It's actually very easily treatable but there's plenty of cowboy trainers that believe in all that dominance rubbish that go the wrong way about it.

LadyFenghuang

borderlinemeath wrote: »

This is the biggest load of rubbish.

The dog was a resource guarder, plain and simple. It doesn't see a "place in a pack". Dominance and pack theory have long been disproven, even by David Mech who put forward the pack theory in the first place.

Dogs will guard things because they fear they will be taken away from them. Be it food, toys, a bed, they will even guard their favourite human. It's a fear, not viewing themselves as higher up the "pack"

It's actually very easily treatable but there's plenty of cowboy trainers that believe in all that dominance rubbish that go the wrong way about it.

I was not referring to dominance per say. 'Pack' is more about co-operation. But even in that way dogs do need to learn to obey. It is fear yes. But also inherent character sometimes. Or lack of interaction with others.

Animals do need to know who is boss sometimes. Even gently.

damon5

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Actually if you go back to veterinarians when they are studying, the majority of the vet studies are sponsored by the likes of Hills. Dog food is a big business and where better to indoctrine the student vets than in college. It's a multi million euro industry and because vets are the "professionals" consumers will trust their judgement when it comes to what to feed their dog.

The majority of dogs that attend vets with skin or intestinal complaints are routinely put on a course of steroids to suppress the symptoms of the dog and they are recommended to go on X or Y food, that the surgery just happens to sell. The symptoms disappear for a while so of course the dog owner is convinced it's the food, but it's the steroids suppressing the symptoms, but not treating the actual problem. The majority of dogs are gluten or wheat intolerant yet pretty much all the foods available in a vets surgery contain wheat or gluten or some type of grain.

The pet business is a marketers dream. For years we have been told to eat fresh foods and avoid processed foods, get enough protein, carbs and vitamins and minerals, yet somehow we've been hoodwinked to think it's perfectly ok to feed nothing but a processed diet to our pets.

Exactly,in a nut shell ....

borderlinemeath

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

I was not referring to dominance per say. 'Pack' is more about co-operation. But even in that way dogs do need to learn to obey. It is fear yes. But also inherent character sometimes. Or lack of interaction with others.

Animals do need to know who is boss sometimes. Even gently.

Actually resource guarding goes back to the breeder, if they feed from communal bowls there will always be a couple of pups who miss out and have to develop aggressive behaviours in order to get their fair share. This in turn leads to them behaving the same around humans and food, or other dogs and food, and because the behaviour works with food, it works with other valuable items as well.

It's not about the dog needing to know who is boss, it's about the dog being comfortable enough not to have to resort to aggressive tendencies. The best way to treat resource guarding of food is to increase supply, to have the dog associate that the hand coming towards the bowl is actually putting more food into it, but the person who thinks they need to show the dog "who's boss" will more than likely take the food away.

LadyFenghuang

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Actually resource guarding goes back to the breeder, if they feed from communal bowls there will always be a couple of pups who miss out and have to develop aggressive behaviours in order to get their fair share. This in turn leads to them behaving the same around humans and food, or other dogs and food, and because the behaviour works with food, it works with other valuable items as well.

It's not about the dog needing to know who is boss, it's about the dog being comfortable enough not to have to resort to aggressive tendencies. The best way to treat resource guarding of food is to increase supply, to have the dog associate that the hand coming towards the bowl is actually putting more food into it, but the person who thinks they need to show the dog "who's boss" will more than likely take the food away.

That's a good point what you say about breeders actually. They try and do this in animals shelters too. When you see dogs actually leaving a little dry food in the bowl that's a good things. It can be done without overfeeding.

Getting it right from the start is key though.

LadyFenghuang

I do think different breeds are different though. And environment is key too.

InTheTrees

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

even if the dog(s) continuously bark throughout the day (and sometimes into the night!)

Remember if a barking dog is causing a nuisance it can be reported. It may not be cruelty but its still a nuisance.

lulu1

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

That was the owners. The dog was not socialized and neglected from lack of care love and interaction. Also if a dog is THAT panicky about food it usually means it is not fed on time. It's clear the husband was seen as 'pack'.

Why put the dog down simply because it growled if people touched his bucket? Or where there other issues?

I am not saying the dog was not dangerous. But I see a lot of problems with the way it was cared for from what you say.

You have MAKE dogs accept their place in the 'pack'. Particularly with kids.

It's a sad situation otherwise.

No it had nothing to do with the owners they were well used to handling dogs.. The dog was ruling the roost and at the end up the wife and kids were afraid of it. It was not his bucket it was the turf bucket They couldnt even put turf in the fire for god's sake. This dog was dangerous and the family were not prepared to give their problem to anyone else.

LadyFenghuang

lulu1 wrote: »

No it had nothing to do with the owners they were well used to handling dogs.. The dog was ruling the roost and at the end up the wife and kids were afraid of it. It was not his bucket it was the turf bucket They couldnt even put turf in the fire for god's sake. This dog was dangerous and the family were not prepared to give their problem to anyone else.

I can't comment then but only accept your account. There are some individual dogs that are difficult. The motto there are not bad breeds but bad dogs. And usually bad dogs are the result of bad handling early on or overtime.

If you say it was not the case this time though I accept that can happen. Tragic though. Very sad.

Discodog

Leaving a dog outside, on it's own & barking all day is cruelty & neglect. The new Animal Welfare Act makes it an offence to not provide for the needs of the animal. These include human interaction, company etc.

There are countless reasons why a dog shouldn't be left outside & the issue has been discussed here before. Most rescues won't allow you to rehome a dog unless you keep it indoors.

Unfortunately Ireland is still many years behind regarding animal welfare & education.

LadyFenghuang

Discodog wrote: »

Leaving a dog outside, on it's own & barking all day is cruelty & neglect. The new Animal Welfare Act makes it an offence to not provide for the needs of the animal. These include human interaction, company etc.

There are countless reasons why a dog shouldn't be left outside & the issue has been discussed here before. Most rescues won't allow you to rehome a dog unless you keep it indoors.

Unfortunately Ireland is still many years behind regarding animal welfare & education.

Awh we won't leave you outside! :P

borderlinemeath

lulu1 wrote: »

No it had nothing to do with the owners they were well used to handling dogs.. The dog was ruling the roost and at the end up the wife and kids were afraid of it. It was not his bucket it was the turf bucket They couldnt even put turf in the fire for god's sake. This dog was dangerous and the family were not prepared to give their problem to anyone else.

The obvious solution would have been to crate train the dog, change the bucket to something different and to stop throwing unattainable food scraps into it. The key about changing behaviours is changing the association that the dog has with the particular thing, ie the bucket - to him it was a food source, so remove it or remove the dogs accessibility to it. Crate training a food aggressive dog makes mealtimes easier for everybody, the dog and the family.

wolfpawnat

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Actually if you go back to veterinarians when they are studying, the majority of the vet studies are sponsored by the likes of Hills. Dog food is a big business and where better to indoctrine the student vets than in college. It's a multi million euro industry and because vets are the "professionals" consumers will trust their judgement when it comes to what to feed their dog.

The majority of dogs that attend vets with skin or intestinal complaints are routinely put on a course of steroids to suppress the symptoms of the dog and they are recommended to go on X or Y food, that the surgery just happens to sell. The symptoms disappear for a while so of course the dog owner is convinced it's the food, but it's the steroids suppressing the symptoms, but not treating the actual problem. The majority of dogs are gluten or wheat intolerant yet pretty much all the foods available in a vets surgery contain wheat or gluten or some type of grain.

The pet business is a marketers dream. For years we have been told to eat fresh foods and avoid processed foods, get enough protein, carbs and vitamins and minerals, yet somehow we've been hoodwinked to think it's perfectly ok to feed nothing but a processed diet to our pets.

Actually there was a seminar held in the college last year recommending not to use brand name stuff based solely on the fact older vets have it in their practises, as it is there they are getting the push, not the college. A lot of vets are solely in it for the money (same as many professions) the colleges teach the students that it is all about getting the right nutrients and percentages. After they graduate is where the issues start.

But back to the general thread. I have a rottweiler and a toddler, not a good mix. not because of the breed, but because of his size, I cannot have him in during the day as he accidentally knocks the toddler, it just doesn't work, plus it is impossible to clean if he is laying down where I am about to sweep/wash the floor. He does come in while she naps, but overall, he is outside during the day.

He gets two walks a day, and 3 10km runs a week so he is well exercised. I have a huge garden and he has different toys and spots to relax in. That is what matters really, socialisation and stimulation. But he is out by night, Rotties are sweeties, but not made to live inside 24/7. I don't agree with most breeds being inside all day when there is no one there. Vets have noticed an increase in bladder and kidney issues in recent years because dogs are not getting the relief of the bathroom. At night they go without the bathroom, because like us, they are asleep, but also like us, when they are awake, they need to go more. In hot weather houses can get too warm and they need to remain hydrated, more water means more pressure on the bladder.

Now that all said, my guy is in from 8pm to bed time, and in the winter he will sleep in the back kitchen on cold nights, but overall, he is outdoors.

Discodog

lulu1 wrote: »

No it had nothing to do with the owners they were well used to handling dogs..

This is often the root cause of so many problems. I know a man who will tell you that he has had dogs for all his life & that he is an expert. He keeps both of his dogs on a 6ft chain 24/7.

I know someone who says that they love cats so much that they won't neuter them.

Discodog

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I don't agree with most breeds being inside all day when there is no one there. Vets have noticed an increase in bladder and kidney issues in recent years because dogs are not getting the relief of the bathroom.

I find that to be rather strange seeing as dogs have been kept indoors for decades. The kidney issues are more likely because of the increase in the use of dried foods & dogs not being given sufficient water.

maggiepip

Discodog wrote: »

This is often the root cause of so many problems. I know a man who will tell you that he has had dogs for all his life & that he is an expert. He keeps both of his dogs on a 6ft chain 24/7.

I know someone who says that they love cats so much that they won't neuter them.

Exactly, it's so often the ones who boast they've had dogs all their lives who know nothing.

wolfpawnat

Discodog wrote: »

I find that to be rather strange seeing as dogs have been kept indoors for decades. The kidney issues are more likely because of the increase in the use of dried foods & dogs not being given sufficient water.

Actually in Ireland, dogs have only really become a full-time indoor creature in recent years. It has been noted in UCD Vet Medicine that it is most common in smaller house dogs through taking histories and also in regards to the length of people's working days. Yes, people misjudge water intake, I today had to fill my dogs 2 waterbowls six times and he drank water from the river on both our walks, so had I left him all day, he would have been dehydrated, but the evidence points in many cases to not getting out the bathroom. Think about it, can you hold in pee for 10 hours when awake? I know no one who can, it affects them, just as it does us.

Plus what is the mental stimulation when inside all day, my guy spends a lot of time chasing flies, looking at birds and trying to harass the cat?

Andy From Sligo

lulu1 wrote: »

No it had nothing to do with the owners they were well used to handling dogs.. The dog was ruling the roost and at the end up the wife and kids were afraid of it. It was not his bucket it was the turf bucket They couldnt even put turf in the fire for god's sake. This dog was dangerous and the family were not prepared to give their problem to anyone else.

Jack Russell isnt it? - we have a JR with a bad temperament, snarls sometimes if you even go near him and especially if he thinks your going to take something away from him, luckily no young children we have in the house, has bit me a couple of times on the hand even when playing/mucking around. he is a rescued dog - very territorial JR dogs would never dream of putting him down for it

wolfpawnat

maggiepip wrote: »

Exactly, it's so often the ones who boast they've had dogs all their lives who know nothing.

Definitely, the amount of "expert advice" you get is unreal. I have been told 5 different ways to keep my dog, all completely conflicting and none with any sort of medical standing, in fact it does against vet recommendations. And when you state the OH is a vet, sure what would a vet know that they wouldn't, they had dogs all their lives!!!!

I had one man tell me to not feel a dog on Sundays to give his stomach a rest. I'd love to see him go without food for a day! :rolleyes:

Andy From Sligo

InTheTrees wrote: »

Remember if a barking dog is causing a nuisance it can be reported. It may not be cruelty but its still a nuisance.

who do you report to ie which authorities? - will Gardai bother even get involved? or would they just put you in touch with ISPCA ? - i might try one day and see how i get on but i dont hold much hope

Discodog

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Plus what is the mental stimulation when inside all day, my guy spends a lot of time chasing flies, looking at birds and trying to harass the cat?

The problem is that dogs also get stressed from hearing other dogs barking. What would happen if your dog went for a bee rather than a fly & got stung in the throat?

My two get a good off lead walk before I leave them. Dogs need to be taught how to chill & mine show no signs of stress or anxiety - I set up a webcam.

There are just too many risks & lack of control in leaving a dog outdoors.

Discodog

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

who do you report to ie which authorities? - will Gardai bother even get involved? or would they just put you in touch with ISPCA ? - i might try one day and see how i get on but i dont hold much hope

Report the noise nuisance to your local Council. Keep a log of when the dog is barking.

InTheTrees

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

who do you report to ie which authorities? - will Gardai bother even get involved? or would they just put you in touch with ISPCA ? - i might try one day and see how i get on but i dont hold much hope

I know. Not easy. But a "Nuisance" is a civil issue.

"Section 25 of the Control of Dogs Act 1986 deals with nuisance by barking dogs. If you don’t get a satisfactory response from the dog owner, you may complain to the District Court, using the form prescribed under the Control of Dogs Act. These forms are available from local authorities.
The court may make an order requiring the occupier of the premises in which the dog is kept to abate the nuisance by exercising due control over a dog. The court may limit the number of dogs that can be kept on a premises or may direct that a dog be delivered to a dog warden to be dealt with as unwanted."

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html

A little unconnected, however the laws in the USA and Ireland are very similar:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Seattle-family-may-lose-house-over-barking-dog-291344661.html

wolfpawnat

Discodog wrote: »

The problem is that dogs also get stressed from hearing other dogs barking. What would happen if your dog went for a bee rather than a fly & got stung in the throat?

My two get a good off lead walk before I leave them. Dogs need to be taught how to chill & mine show no signs of stress or anxiety - I set up a webcam.

There are just too many risks & lack of control in leaving a dog outdoors.

What if he eats a rock? What if he chews on some furniture and chokes on wood? What if is sort of a cop out really. He needs space, my house is big but is not good enough, I have 2 young kids, one eats raisins, if he gets at them, health issues. If he eats their toys, obstructions.

I find my dog lacks stimulation indoors, a rottweiler needs space by the fact they are big. He has a tree he chills under, he can see the road through a high locked gate, the rest of the garden has a 8 foot wall He loves being in when we are home, but if not, he goes insane chewing at everything and getting anxious.

Each dog is different and that needs to be taken into account, but overall dogs are happy outside as long as they are cared for in all aspects. Obviously I would never recommend leaving a hairless chinese crested outside, but most breeds are hardy enough to live while you are gone to work in most reasonable weathers with proper shelter, exercise and stimulation.

Discodog

wolfpawnat wrote: »

What if he eats a rock? What if he chews on some furniture and chokes on wood? What if is sort of a cop out really. He needs space, my house is big but is not good enough, I have 2 young kids, one eats raisins, if he gets at them, health issues. If he eats their toys, obstructions.

I find my dog lacks stimulation indoors, a rottweiler needs space by the fact they are big. He has a tree he chills under, he can see the road through a high locked gate, the rest of the garden has a 8 foot wall He loves being in when we are home, but if not, he goes insane chewing at everything and getting anxious.

Each dog is different and that needs to be taken into account, but overall dogs are happy outside as long as they are cared for in all aspects. Obviously I would never recommend leaving a hairless chinese crested outside, but most breeds are hardy enough to live while you are gone to work in most reasonable weathers with proper shelter, exercise and stimulation.

I cannot agree that overall dogs are happier outside. I can understand your situation but are you making a general statement to back up your personal decision?

AFAIK every welfare organisation here & in the UK would disagree with you. There are countless examples of problems with leaving a dog outside. Escape, theft, injury, death or injury to visiting cats, barking, taunting by kids etc, etc etc.

By the way big dogs don't need space. If a dog is well walked before being left it will sleep most of the day. I spent several months with two big dogs in a camper van.

wolfpawnat

Discodog wrote: »

I cannot agree that overall dogs are happier outside. I can understand your situation but are you making a general statement to back up your personal decision?

AFAIK every welfare organisation here & in the UK would disagree with you. There are countless examples of problems with leaving a dog outside. Escape, theft, injury, death or injury to visiting cats, barking, taunting by kids etc, etc etc.

The issue with a lot of welfare charities from my experience as well as the experience of personal friends and my partner and his fellow vets, is that many of them are not really living in reality. Many of them expect over and beyond to the extent of not really realistically thinking of the animal as what it is, an animal.

You cite fantastic reasons as to why people should consider what they should do with their pets during the day. Escape, theft and taunting are very common issues, and for many it is something they have had to deal with. I am lucky, as I stated, large locked gate, high walls and my homes location as well as my dog weighing a hefty 50kg at 8months means these are not an issue for me personally, a cocker spaniel owner does not have the same luxuries. One could argue though that correct fencing and precautions would minimise these risks. (just playing devils advocate here).

As for cats, I have found they do more to harm dogs than the other way around, I know my one is the bane of every dog in the neighbourhood's existence, especially my dog. I am ashamed to say, my tabby rules over a rottweiler, devil breed indeed! But yes, a fair issue, and cats cause dogs to bark, which cause nuisance issues, that is a fair argument.

Death and injury can occur anywhere though. I mean all it takes is one stray toy or a dish cloth with some porridge stuck on it from a morning clean up, and there is a €800 surgery most cannot afford. That said, I spent 3 days ridding my garden of litter from the last tenant that included sea shells, metal bottle caps, and chicken bones. So it becomes a balance of risks really.

As for theft, with break-ins rampant around the country, stealing a dog from inside the home is not too much of a step up these days than from outside, though obviously, for most, the latter is easier.

Everyone can only give their own opinion as to what they think is right, but from my experiences personally, if the dog has everything it needs outside, then that is a perfectly suitable place to keep them.

Discodog

wolfpawnat wrote: »

The issue with a lot of welfare charities from my experience as well as the experience of personal friends and my partner and his fellow vets, is that many of them are not really living in reality. Many of them expect over and beyond to the extent of not really realistically thinking of the animal as what it is, an animal.

They live in the reality of having to pick up the pieces left from neglect, trying to repair the damage & then finding good homes. I would hope that they are very choosy about who they rehome to.

Some animal charities have to also try to prosecute cruelty cases where the local Vet refuses to testify because he doesn't want to get a "bad reputation".

Meanwhile, because of pet insurance, the cost of veterinary care is increasing whilst the rescues incomes are falling.

I take a very dim view of Vets criticising rescues. The rescues help as volunteers & not as a commercial business.

Swanley

Leaving Dogs outside all day;
Leaving Dogs outside - all day;
Leaving Dogs, outside; All day!
Leaving Dogs;
Outside;
All day.

Goat Paddock

Dog flap on back door is an idea. Can always close it or close off rest of house assuming it leads into a utility room.

wolfpawnat

Discodog wrote: »

They live in the reality of having to pick up the pieces left from neglect, trying to repair the damage & then finding good homes. I would hope that they are very choosy about who they rehome to.

Some animal charities have to also try to prosecute cruelty cases where the local Vet refuses to testify because he doesn't want to get a "bad reputation".

Meanwhile, because of pet insurance, the cost of veterinary care is increasing whilst the rescues incomes are falling.

I take a very dim view of Vets criticising rescues. The rescues help as volunteers & not as a commercial business.

My personal experience of rescues has caused me to come to the conclusion that some are nothing short of excuses for animal hoarding, not really wanted to rehome, but to have people fund their obsession. That said, I agree there needs to be a thorough selection process, but within reason. I had one friend have a rescue state they did not want her to get a dog because she had a back yard and were not convinced she would not keep it out there. Luckily she found a rescue with a sense of cop on and has a lovely little guy now that does not see the yard only for when she is doing laundry.

But that is OT, so back on track.

Dogs, so long as they have all their needs met can survive perfectly happy outside in most Irish weather. We do not have a ridiculously varied climate, most of the year is warm enough (though it does not always feel like it as we are so used to it) but generally it's fine. Obviously those with less fur and the vast majority of toy breeds are not as sturdy as a Labrador, German Shepard and a Jack Russell, so they need extra consideration, but overall, in my own opinion, which like everyone elses, is simply an opinion, most dogs are fine outside and contrary to some arguments, it is not an act of cruelty to simply have them outside during the day once they are properly cared for.